Same, and not having the links makes following the quote to the original post for full context extra annoying (though I have nothing to say wrt what you quoted me about this time)
Arsonist's Lullaby: An Azula Timeloop Quest
- Thread starter Magery
- Start date
- Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] The future. The one place you cannot seem to reach, throne or no throne. Has Zuko ever wondered what it'll be like? No, not whether the mantle is heavy enough to cramp the shoulders, or what his first command as Fire Lord could be—just about the shape of the Sun's path through the sky, the day after Sozin's Comet, and what the world will have become in the face of that light. What does he see? What do you?
Missing (
[X] The present. Here you stand, before your brother. Here doubt has driven you. Does Zuko doubt, too? Is he still angry at himself? If you were him, you would be. But maybe that's his secret. Maybe he's always angry. Maybe you're angry too. The world isn't what you thought it was—and you think Zuko can relate. What will happen if you let him?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Actually that was a continuation of this
Vote closed
Magery
Life blooms like a flower, far away or by the road
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- They/Them/She/Her
@quantum lurker:
(And that quote is the whole post, except for your quote of infinityDivided, so hopefully it doesn't need a link?)
Ah, sorry.quantum lurker said:
(And that quote is the whole post, except for your quote of infinityDivided, so hopefully it doesn't need a link?)
You just quoted AND pinged quantum lurker?
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Okay, this isn't a thread for discussing how to quote or ping people. Take it to PMs.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
The idea that Lu Ten was assassinated really hurts Iroh's arc to me.
The tragedy is that Iroh only realized how wrong the war was after sending his own son to his death. If it was anything but Iroh's fault then that really doesn't hit anywhere near as hard.
Realizing that so many other sons are being lost every day in the same way.
Making it some generic court intrigue is... frankly boring to me.
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- Location
- England
Azula wordshiving him with a lie (with plausibility) would be 100% in char for her though (it just needs to be plausible enough for her to use it against Iroh)
Guess I'm a fan of Ozai being that much of a bastard, though I can see why it would be a turnoff regarding iroh's arc.
That and Iroh loosing his temper with Ozai regarding this is something I kinda want to see...
Guess I'm a fan of Ozai being that much of a bastard, though I can see why it would be a turnoff regarding iroh's arc.
That and Iroh loosing his temper with Ozai regarding this is something I kinda want to see...
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Also, I feel it's a bit more straightforward that he simply died in the Siege on Ba Sing Se, the same way that so many other people in the war did. Real life nobles had straightforward and anticlimactic deaths in war all the time, and I don't see why it would be that much different in Avatar (aside from the presence of Bending, of course).
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
To be honest, it just removes Iroh's biggest failure and the thing that made him the man he is.
It wasn't his fault.
Pin it on the evil Ozai... who has already done so much evil killing Lu ten barely makes him worse to me.
- Location
- France
Besides, how would Azula convince him that it was a hit ordered by Ozai? Iroh already knows that Azula love spewing lies to get what she wants.
And also, why would she even try to do something like that in the first place? If it's to convince Iroh to go against Ozai, then there's no need to do that, since he's already opposing his brother.
And also, why would she even try to do something like that in the first place? If it's to convince Iroh to go against Ozai, then there's no need to do that, since he's already opposing his brother.
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I have to agree it's a beautifully tragic part of Iroh's character I wouldn't want to lose but I'd add it gives legitimate depth to his psychological aversion to taking up authority again. Beyond the regrets knowing that he looks back on his past and has this aching guilt gnawing at his soul that yes, when he had power, he was a war criminal who sent his own son to die in a cruel and pointless siege. That gives weight to why he needs Zuko to become Fire Lord even if he has the right and the power to try to depose Ozai himself. (And it probably has to specifically be Zuko, the second son who he will not fail no matter what it costs him or how hard Zuko makes it to do right by him. No-one else has the right to forgive Iroh.)
Ozai is an absolute bastard but personally I prefer for him to have just that tiny, tiny, bit of love for his family which makes his abusive nature that much harder to escape because yes, if you're his perfect pawn and do everything he tells you then he might genuinely love you back just a little bit. Not enough to be healthy but just enough to keep people hoping.
infinityDivided
Prince Of Doom
- Location
- USA
Personally, I don't think that Ozai arranged for Lu Ten's death. His attempt to use it to squirm his way into being the heir apparent was far too sloppy for it to have been planned, it felt more like him desperately trying to take advantage of a perceived opportunity.
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Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
No he wasn't. He died in a campaign his father led, in a siege his father helmed. Nothing else is required to be said.
He was a prince fighting on the frontline.
No, he "flipped out" because his second son was using the opportunity of his nephew's death to usurp his heir.
- Location
- Te Ika-a-Māui
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Actually, Azula is remarkably honest compared to the men in her family, and even if she weren't it's not like Iroh has any grounds to complain about people lying to him.
Magery
Life blooms like a flower, far away or by the road
- Location
- Australia
I'm a little confused by your use of "going" here, largely because it implies Arsonist's Lullaby hasn't already handled Lu Ten's death and instead suggests this is something it may, or should, do in the future.
This confuses me because at the end of the previous loop (the second-most recent update), Azula tore into Iroh verbally, focusing specifically on attacking him over the siege of Ba Sing Se and Lu Ten's death, throwing that death directly in his face as a weapon—it was, in fact, explicitly the raw emotion in this diatribe that led to Iroh reevaluating his opinion on Azula in a way that left him open to the more seismic shift in his opinion that her subsequent conversation with Zuko provoked.
Afterwards, at the start of the current loop (the most recent update), almost the entirety of its wordcount revolves around Lu Ten's death, including a scene where Azula visits his room and—in a rare moment for her—engages in some fairly deep introspection about his death as a lens through which to evaluate her own life. Furthermore, as part of that, she specifically and explicitly considers the implications Lu Ten's death had on the succession.
I'm… not sure how much more I can handle it than that?
(Ironically, in a (pretty awful) unpublished draft of the idea that after many revisions eventually became this one, I have even written that (very different) version of Azula actually using "Ozai was responsible for Lu Ten's death" to goad Iroh over what she perceives as his failures to stop Ozai from destroying their family one by one—but even there, her next paragraph of internal monologue is about how she's lying when she says it and Ozai was only responsible for Ursa and Zuko.)
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
By making the secret behind Lu Ten's death into a big mystery driving the next few loops. Obviously.
- Location
- England
... I may have been a tad lacking in sleep when I wrote that (I didn't mean to imply that, more Azula digging at iroh with a lie regarding ozai's actions later)...
I may go back and edit that post.
I may go back and edit that post.
DracoDracul
Transbian Communist
- Location
- Austin
- Pronouns
- She/They
Ozai killed Lu Ten is one of those fan theories I really don't get because it doesn't fit thematically and Ozai doesn't really strike me as the mastermind type.
- Location
- Te Ika-a-Māui
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's a way to divert fault from Saint Iroh onto the Evil Ozai, and should be dismissed accordingly.
- Location
- England
... Right, considering I wrote that on no sleep and am more or less being laughed out the room over that (I was mostly suggesting Azula wordshived Iroh cuz she always lies*).
* And the best lies are the ones that are ones you can't fully dismiss out of hand (and I hate Ozai and think he's a b@$t@rd)
That said, given it does hurt Iroh's story arc... And I'm a tad tired of a response chain to a comment I wrote while dead on my feet (final deadlines suck) I've since deleted the post that kick-started this.
Moving on from that...on an unrelated but still curious note...are any of the comics stuff (I know it exists but that's about it) getting involved or is it just pure show contents?
As I have heard people whom HATE the comics with a fiery passion (again, I ain't got much grounding so if no please explain why the comics are hated or not)
* And the best lies are the ones that are ones you can't fully dismiss out of hand (and I hate Ozai and think he's a b@$t@rd)
That said, given it does hurt Iroh's story arc... And I'm a tad tired of a response chain to a comment I wrote while dead on my feet (final deadlines suck) I've since deleted the post that kick-started this.
Moving on from that...on an unrelated but still curious note...are any of the comics stuff (I know it exists but that's about it) getting involved or is it just pure show contents?
As I have heard people whom HATE the comics with a fiery passion (again, I ain't got much grounding so if no please explain why the comics are hated or not)
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