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Arsonist's Lullaby: An Azula Timeloop Quest

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glavius said:
[ ] The .

What is this supposed to be?
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Lives where Lu Ten never died, lives where Azulon never ordered Zuko's death, lives where their mother never left, lives where their mother took them with her, etc. Essentially, it would have been about imagining lives better than what they had.

She's refused it as an option because she'd be forced to confront the fact that she would be happier in a world where Ozai didn't utterly control her dreaming of "what if"s doesn't do anything to advance her position.
 
[X] The future. The one place you cannot seem to reach, throne or no throne. Has Zuko ever wondered what it'll be like? No, not whether the mantle is heavy enough to cramp the shoulders, or what his first command as Fire Lord could be—just about the shape of the Sun's path through the sky, the day after Sozin's Comet, and what the world will have become in the face of that light. What does he see? What do you?
 
Magery said:
[ ] The future. The one place you cannot seem to reach, throne or no throne. Has Zuko ever wondered what it'll be like? No, not whether the mantle is heavy enough to cramp the shoulders, or what his first command as Fire Lord could be—just about the shape of the Sun's path through the sky, the day after Sozin's Comet, and what the world will have become in the face of that light. What does he see? What do you?
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Looking closer at the wording, doesn't this actually point Zuko somewhat in the direction of Azula's loops?
 
infinityDivided said:
Well, you know what they say; the best kind of politician is the one who really, really doesn't want to be a politician.
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I eventually left a Funny reaction on the post -- but, also, yeah, at the very least I've heard that commented on (memorably in the work of Douglas Adams), and I think there's some sense to it. Of course, one still wouldn't want to get just anyone who didn't want to be a politician.

ElMariachi said:
The Watsonian answer is that the show wanted to show the two big final fights of Aang vs Ozai and Zuko vs Azula, the Doylist answer is that Aang would face Ozai anyway, to solve the immediate problem of half the planet about to be torched down, so Zuko could go and take the opportunity of Azula's impending coronation to take the throne from her, takling the more long-term problem that the Fire Nation still kinda won the war at this point (there's still the Northern Water Tribe who's free, but there's little it can do alone) and occupy all of the Earth Kingdom, something that Zuko can deal with if he manager to become Fire Lord.
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I think you may have accidentally switched Watsonian and Doylist there -- but typos happen; I'm certainly not immune to them myself.

Assuming that is indeed what you meant (if not, I'm not sure what you do mean, sorry), eh... I mean, the Doylist answer for why Zuko was fighting Azula, yes, it was the climax of both their character arcs in the show, among other things. The Watsonian answer, though, I'm skeptical of. Azula needed to be dealt with, yes, but did she need to be dealt with right then, as opposed to concentrating even more force against Ozai's fleet? Possibly I'm forgetting something, though.
 
Reese said:
The Watsonian answer, though, I'm skeptical of. Azula needed to be dealt with, yes, but did she need to be dealt with right then, as opposed to concentrating even more force against Ozai's fleet?
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I mentioned it before but I think it was done to prevent any chance of Azula being crowned Fire Lord after Ozai's death. Presumably your claim to the throne is stronger if you make it prior to someone else having their coronation done.
 
Yeah the thing that could actually have waited was the retaking of Ba Sing Se, but Iroh had to give in to hubris let child soldiers do the important stuff "fulfil his destiny".
 
Nicholas Brooks said:
I mentioned it before but I think it was done to prevent any chance of Azula being crowned Fire Lord after Ozai's death. Presumably your claim to the throne is stronger if you make it prior to someone else having their coronation done.
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Ehh. Does that really matter that much at that stage, though? Zuko has explicitly allied himself with the people currently fighting Ozai and his fleet. He's explicitly on the other side of the war, at that point. So, yes, him stopping Azula's coronation isn't nothing, but it also doesn't seem like all that much in context, either.

Wiggy said:
I imagine it's the difference between a contested succession and a coup, yeah.
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Well, it's maybe a fig leaf of the former, but not enough to do much of anything without so much force backing it that it's not really needed, I think. Like, everyone is going to know that Zuko showed up to "contest the succession" accompanied by a warrior from one of the groups the Fire Nation is fighting, as part of a larger operation against the Fire Nation's war effort. Once he wins, they're not going to make an issue of it, because he won and looks like he could and would beat them too if they tried to make an issue of it, but they'd do the same if he took the crown off Azula's head instead of interrupting things before it could be put on.
 
Reese said:
Ehh. Does that really matter that much at that stage, though? Zuko has explicitly allied himself with the people currently fighting Ozai and his fleet. He's explicitly on the other side of the war, at that point. So, yes, him stopping Azula's coronation isn't nothing, but it also doesn't seem like all that much in context, either.
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The Fire Nation's culture is not ours. From all we're shown it seems to be a very honor-based and traditional sort, so while you and I may not care about the procedure, they probably do. Yes Zuko is allied with those from the other Nations who oppose the Fire Lord, but at the end of the day, it's still Zuko who is coming to claim the throne, not an outsider, making this primarily a power struggle between members of the royal family. Considering how far back the history of the Avatar world stretches, I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the first time a Fire Prince seized the throne upon his father's death/abdication with the help of foreigners.
 
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quantum lurker said:
It's probably easier to manage things afterwards if they had the legitimacy conveyed via doing things The Proper Way though?
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Easier, yeah, I expect; I'm just not sure how much, relative to the opportunity cost.

@Nicholas Brooks:
Hm. I might have been underestimating that aspect, yes, now that you mention it; thanks!
 
@Reese, I don't know what you're doing to the statements you're quoting, but it's impolite for conversation. I had no idea you quoted me earlier because whatever you're doing doesn't generate alerts.
 
@infinityDivided:
I don't think I'm doing anything to them (I'm guessing the effect you're seeing results from me not including the bits that generate a link, but that's not doing something to the quoted text, just not retrieving and including extra characters outside the quote proper), but I assure you no rudeness was intended. I don't recall anyone ever complaining before, but it occurs to me now that this perhaps is the fastest-moving thread I've been involved in on SV. Possibly some additional measures are in order here.
 
Andrensath said:
Yeah the thing that could actually have waited was the retaking of Ba Sing Se, but Iroh had to give in to hubris let child soldiers do the important stuff "fulfil his destiny".
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That's pretty obviously a matter of narrative pacing rather than pragmatic strategy. Iroh freeing Ba Sing Se is significant to his character, but it's not finale-worthy the way Aang confronting the Fire Lord or Zuko confronting Azula are.


Reese said:
Ehh. Does that really matter that much at that stage, though? Zuko has explicitly allied himself with the people currently fighting Ozai and his fleet. He's explicitly on the other side of the war, at that point. So, yes, him stopping Azula's coronation isn't nothing, but it also doesn't seem like all that much in context, either.
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It's a symbolic difference, but monarchy is all about symbolism. It's a mailed fist wrapped in a velvet glove.
A king can't rule through violence alone; they need to convince people that they are the rightful king, so they can focus their violence on the few people who don't accept their claim.


infinityDivided said:
@Reese, I don't know what you're doing to the statements you're quoting, but it's impolite for conversation. I had no idea you quoted me earlier because whatever you're doing doesn't generate alerts.
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It's basic BBCode. When you use the "quote" button, you get a little block of BBCode that includes a bit of data about the post and member who posted it. But you can also just type (quote)—with square brackets instead of parentheses—which looks like this.
hello world
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You can also type, say, (quote=Prince Zuko) to get something like this:
Prince Zuko said:
That's rough, buddy.
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Of course, Zuko is not registered to this forum, so he can't get an alert about this post. That only happens if you include the member data in the BBCode block.

The (quote=Name) thing is sometimes more convenient—and, in my opinion, politeness-neutral—but not receiving an alert is a bit less convenient. That's part of why I read posts in these threads even if I didn't get a specific alert for them. (Mostly it's because I'm interested in the discussion, though.)
 
@GreatWyrmGold:
GreatWyrmGold said:
It's a symbolic difference, but monarchy is all about symbolism. It's a mailed fist wrapped in a velvet glove.
A king can't rule through violence alone; they need to convince people that they are the rightful king, so they can focus their violence on the few people who don't accept their claim.
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Aye. I guess the question is how much challenging Azula after, rather than before, her coronation would affect Zuko's standing -- and it may well be more than I was assuming.

It's basic BBCode. When you use the "quote" button, you get a little block of BBCode that includes a bit of data about the post and member who posted it. But you can also just type (quote)—with square brackets instead of parentheses—which looks like this.
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You can also type, say, (quote=Prince Zuko) to get something like this:
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Ah, thanks for the more detailed information. And yes, I hardly ever use the "quote" button; most of my posts here I compose in plain text and then paste in.

Though I'd thought that the name needed to be in quotes -- that is, (quote="Prince Zuko"). Perhaps either works.

and, in my opinion, politeness-neutral
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And thanks for the input on that!

That's part of why I read posts in these threads even if I didn't get a specific alert for them. (Mostly it's because I'm interested in the discussion, though.)
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I also usually try to -- though I'll sometimes skip if I'm quite behind and it doesn't seem particularly likely someone replied to me.
 
Reese said:
And yes, I hardly ever use the "quote" button; most of my posts here I compose in plain text and then paste in.
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You are literally the first person I've ever heard of who does that. Why bother when there's a button that creates a quote that both alerts the quotee and creates a link to the post in question?

Actually, I don't think I care. Just please use the function when quoting one of my posts from now on.
 
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infinityDivided said:
You are literally the first person I've ever heard of who does that. Why bother when there's a button that creates a quote that both alerts the quotee and creates a link to the post in question?

Actually, I don't think I care. Just please use the function when quoting one of my posts from now on.
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As communication between us does not appear to be going very well anyway and the returns on the effort it'd take to make sure I consistently implemented that into the indefinite future don't particularly feel worth it, I am, after a bit of research, thinking the best solution here might be for me to just use the "Ignore" function; there would then be no risk, as I understand it, of accidentally replying with a wrong method. Since keeping to the specific requested method shouldn't be an issue in the short term and local area, though, I thought I'd first ask if you think I'm missing something about the situation, or if you agree with that proposal.
 
infinityDivided said:
Reese said:
And yes, I hardly ever use the "quote" button; most of my posts here I compose in plain text and then paste in.
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You are literally the first person I've ever heard of who does that. Why bother when there's a button that creates a quote that both alerts the quotee and creates a link to the post in question?
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Well you see, plain text editors don't have that button.

And there are plenty of reasons that someone would want to use an external text editor instead of relying on the website's inbuilt one, ranging from concerns about losing data if something happens to just preferring the distinctive hotkeys in the external editor. There are plenty of times I've spent hours writing a post in a website's text editor, and then lost all that work due to the website being weird at an inconvenient time. It's less likely on Sufficient Velocity, which has a decent autosave feature, but I get why someone would rather be safe than sorry.
 
[X] The future. The one place you cannot seem to reach, throne or no throne. Has Zuko ever wondered what it'll be like? No, not whether the mantle is heavy enough to cramp the shoulders, or what his first command as Fire Lord could be—just about the shape of the Sun's path through the sky, the day after Sozin's Comet, and what the world will have become in the face of that light. What does he see? What do you?

Because, very simply, it's what I think Azula would ask.
 
[X] The future. The one place you cannot seem to reach, throne or no throne. Has Zuko ever wondered what it'll be like? No, not whether the mantle is heavy enough to cramp the shoulders, or what his first command as Fire Lord could be—just about the shape of the Sun's path through the sky, the day after Sozin's Comet, and what the world will have become in the face of that light. What does he see? What do you?
 
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