Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

[Photomajig]

So, the enemy took 1945 casualties so far, and because we hold the field I assume, @Photomajig , that enemy casualty recovery will be significantly lower than if they won and were both able to move their wounded and recover their dead Elves.

Click to shrink...

It'll affect things to some degree, yeah.

@Photomajig So, question regarding the surrender mechanics: You mentioned that units that rout and can't see a way to flee surrender instead. What is the criteria for seeing a way to flee, having a route to escape without facing melee attacks? Second question, is the tile NW of the 14th a full forest tile or just plains?

Click to shrink...

It's pretty situational. Generally, having no way to outrun enemies that could attack them compels a surrender.

That Hex is Forest.

We cannot currently capture units, Von Trotha has not officially started retreating. When we speak of capturing we mean stopping a unit from moving off the map to prevent them fleeing next turn. This is why we need a cavalry for each infantry to capture.

Click to shrink...

All units need to rout or the army needs to retreat for it to happen, Von Trotha is keeping the army together still so unless @Photomajig says otherwise I don't think we can capture.

Click to shrink...

He is effectively in retreat. A separate Retreat phase is probably not needed anymore, anyhow. You can capture Units. Apologies for the confusion.

It seems like we forgot to use the 1AP the 13th has. It probably doesn't matter here, but we should make sure we don't repeat this mistake.

@Photomajig, for the two letters, did we get omake rewards from them?

I would also like to say that it is very nice to see Toucy get some spotlight, and world building is also pretty neat. Hopefully, I'll be able to send back a letter somewhat soon.

Click to shrink...

I'll have to rethink the things you can use Omake rewards for, but sure! I think I also promised an Omake reward for the design discussions around the revised rules, so you have 2-3 coming up when I figure out their uses.

@Photomajig

Is the tile w of the 17th forest or plains?

Could you confirm if artillery loses combat bonus every 10 deaths or do not lose combat bonus with deaths? I thought they get weaker with deaths but it doesn't look like it.

Click to shrink...

Forest.

Currently it doesn't, but that's definitely changing after this battle - I forgot it during revisions and didn't want to introduce it mid-battle.

 

[abominable]

I wonder how this'll affect things and Durand's rep both back home and against future enemies. We're certainly building a clear winning streak.

 

[Red Rationalist]

Huh, alright. Trying to destroy the horse artillery with mid-range fire from the 72nd seems like the better idea, since one would suffer fewer penalties. The last 8 standing ones could be taken care of via cavalry charge.

• 72nd double fire + 1 hussar charge horse artillery (G hussars?)
• 2 Hussars could charge 28th from the north, cutting their escape rout off and forcing a surrender via rout. Probably better than trying to take them by ranged attacks.
• 42nd take care of the provincial artillery, as before.
• 108th could charge 60th artillery.
• 148th could charge the 28th from the south, just to make sure. The artillery cluster is likely to surrender if they are in the north.

Overall, we can capture 5-6 artillery pieces. That is really good for the rearming of René, enough for another proper field army and makes Trotha completely useless, given his general command style. Just to be clear, it's looking like he looses at least 71% of his guns to the enemy, meaning Arné will emerge stronger just by virtue of scavenging from his army. The loss of an entire arsenal is going to be devastating, Trotha will feel borderline neutered. With this, I am pretty comfortable taking more risks, Trotha will not attempt another attack on us.

 

[The Laurent]

Huh, alright. Trying to destroy the horse artillery with mid-range fire from the 72nd seems like the better idea, since one would suffer fewer penalties. The last 8 standing ones could be taken care of via cavalry charge.

• 72nd double fire + 1 hussar charge horse artillery (G hussars?)
• 2 Hussars could charge 28th from the north, cutting their escape rout off and forcing a surrender via rout. Probably better than trying to take them by ranged attacks.
• 42nd take care of the provincial artillery, as before.
• 108th could charge 60th artillery.
• 148th could charge the 28th from the south, just to make sure. The artillery cluster is likely to surrender if they are in the north.

Overall, we can capture 5-6 artillery pieces. That is really good for the rearming of René, enough for another proper field army and makes Trotha completely useless, given his general command style. Just to be clear, it's looking like he looses at least 71% of his guns to the enemy, meaning Arné will emerge stronger just by virtue of scavenging from his army. The loss of an entire arsenal is going to be devastating, Trotha will feel borderline neutered. With this, I am pretty comfortable taking more risks, Trotha will not attempt another attack on us.

Click to shrink...

It feels like there should be a way to shove or otherwise punish the two routing infantry, though I'm not sure if there is mechanically... but, like, even if technically not captured... I feel like we could do some more damage and put ourselves to the next, tbh?

 

[Red Rationalist]

It feels like there should be a way to shove or otherwise punish the two routing infantry, though I'm not sure if there is mechanically... but, like, even if technically not captured... I feel like we could do some more damage and put ourselves to the next, tbh?

Click to shrink...

We could, but infantry is fairly cheap. Especially local infantry that is just trained enough to march in a passable. I don't really see the advantage on trying to pursue those fairly mediocre troops, we should spend the bulk of our effort on capturing the artillery. They will loose further ones to desertion, the battery is the real price.

 

[The Laurent]

We could, but infantry is fairly cheap. Especially local infantry that is just trained enough to march in a passable. I don't really see the advantage on trying to pursue those fairly mediocre troops, we should spend the bulk of our effort on capturing the artillery. They will loose further ones to desertion, the battery is the real price.

Click to shrink...

The thing is, I don't actually think there's a cost to trying, because basically none of their southern (non-HA) artillery CAN escape. We could be put in a situation where we don't capture them THIS turn, but that's, like, it?

 

[natruska]

He is effectively in retreat. A separate Retreat phase is probably not needed anymore, anyhow. You can capture Units. Apologies for the confusion.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, Retreat continues to be a little awkward. It's much less punishing with the new movement rules (I think - one unit can still only capture one unit/tile per turn, right, or has that changed? It'd be kind of wild if one cavalry unit could take 3000 prisoners in a single movement) but it's still very all-or-nothing. Von Trotha's army might be retreating in total disarray but possibly bagging a couple thousand prisoners on top of what we've cut off in the center might be a little high still.

At the same time it does make sure battles are decisive, which is definitely good. We don't really want to play out a battle and have the end result be both armies still functional, operational situation unchanged, that'd be very annoying.

I like somebody's (I think it was Pinniped's?) idea from a while back that jumping on top of a Routing unit could Scatter them instead of causing a full surrender. A few hundred casualties, maybe they lose their equipment or CO, but they're sorta able to make their way off the field unless truly surrounded. That'd still effectively destroy the fighting strength of an army (any unit above Trained will drop down through the ranks hard, if they can even find hundreds of replacements- Morale can fall just like with Surrenders, so the rest of the army's ability to fight will crater too) while keeping the casualty/prisoner numbers from ballooning as much. And artillery batteries and isolated rearguards like the 17th could still be forced to surrender or otherwise totally destroyed.

This wouldn't make taking thousands of prisoners impossible, it'd just make it more of an operational thing instead of a tactical thing. I.e. you've destroyed the enemy's ability to fight in the battle and also cut their line of retreat so they're forced to surrender, they have to hole up in a fortification that you can besiege, things like that.

A change of this sort (or some other move that makes retreats easier) could be explained as an effect of the armies involved getting better/more disciplined, too. It makes sense for von Trotha and von Wach's armies to collapse like they did, they were completely raw, but professionals probably know a lot more about fighting their way off of a battlefield.

 

[Red Rationalist]

The thing is, I don't actually think there's a cost to trying, because basically none of their southern (non-HA) artillery CAN escape. We could be put in a situation where we don't capture them THIS turn, but that's, like, it?

Click to shrink...

Most of the artillery units could escape over the course of 2 turns by moving along the road. A charge necessarily costs action points, so there is a risk to let some slip through our fingers if we don't cut their escape routes off this turn. Also, a pure cavalry charge isn't that effective in terms of dealing casualties (70 => 35 casualties on average), so I don't really view it as worth the action point.

 

[The Laurent]

Most of the artillery units could escape over the course of 2 turns by moving along the road. A charge necessarily costs action points, so there is a risk to let some slip through our fingers if we don't cut their escape routes off this turn. Also, a pure cavalry charge isn't that effective in terms of dealing casualties (70 => 35 casualties on average), so I don't really view it as worth the action point.

Click to shrink...

LIke, yes, and how would they keep from just being charged to death by us with our huge number of units right there next to her? Or for that matter shot to death. Like, it feels really silly to intentionally allow multiple units to escape just because you think that somehow an entire army attacking 3-4 largely helpless artillery units might not successfully capture them or cut them off.

 

[The Laurent]

Like to be clear, here, even our Southmost infantry could spend this turn moving and be in position to surround and fire at any fleeing non-Horse Artillery next turn!

I like somebody's (I think it was Pinniped's?) idea from a while back that jumping on top of a Routing unit could Scatter them instead of causing a full surrender. A few hundred casualties, maybe they lose their equipment or CO, but they're sorta able to make their way off the field unless truly surrounded. That'd still effectively destroy the fighting strength of an army (any unit above Trained will drop down through the ranks hard, if they can even find hundreds of replacements- Morale can fall just like with Surrenders, so the rest of the army's ability to fight will crater too) while keeping the casualty/prisoner numbers from ballooning as much. And artillery batteries and isolated rearguards like the 17th could still be forced to surrender or otherwise totally destroyed.

This wouldn't make taking thousands of prisoners impossible, it'd just make it more of an operational thing instead of a tactical thing. I.e. you've destroyed the enemy's ability to fight in the battle and also cut their line of retreat so they're forced to surrender, they have to hole up in a fortification that you can besiege, things like that.

A change of this sort (or some other move that makes retreats easier) could be explained as an effect of the armies involved getting better/more disciplined, too. It makes sense for von Trotha and von Wach's armies to collapse like they did, they were completely raw, but professionals probably know a lot more about fighting their way off of a battlefield.

Click to shrink...

I honestly wouldn't be against a scatter mechanism being added in later battles, honestly?

 

[Restestsest]

*snip*

Click to shrink...

Ohhhhh, that can't be good for Von Trotha's mental health. Did we take fewer casualties in this battle than the previous one? I thought we would suffer more casualties from enemy arty with the greater amount of enemy artillery and a clear day. Did Von Trotha place his artillery in sub-optimal spots?

 

[IroniChristian]

Have we seen Von trotha's HQ at all?

 

[NSchwerte]

Most of the artillery units could escape over the course of 2 turns by moving along the road. A charge necessarily costs action points, so there is a risk to let some slip through our fingers if we don't cut their escape routes off this turn. Also, a pure cavalry charge isn't that effective in terms of dealing casualties (70 => 35 casualties on average), so I don't really view it as worth the action point.

Click to shrink...

They theoretically could escape, but next turn we have 5 Cavalry units in position to cut off escape routes and like 5 infantry units in the center catching up to the artillery. Anything that does not escape this turn gets captured, which is why our goal should be capturing all the routing infantry north of the hills and taking care of the 14th and 28th yeah

TBH the real difficulty is how much we can spend on making sure we hit the HQ

Have we seen Von trotha's HQ at all?

Click to shrink...

No

He is effectively in retreat. A separate Retreat phase is probably not needed anymore, anyhow. You can capture Units. Apologies for the confusion.

Click to shrink...

TBH this clarification makes it actually incredbile easy to capture all

 

[NSchwerte]

This movement would allow us to capture the HQ if its on any but the yellow spaces.

First AP: charge the 60th from behind (just to make sure the 148th can move there and shoot the 14th.

Second AP: charge along the blue path, relying on our other movements to have killed the 28th, this catches them if they are at all edges of the map except the one tile west of the end,

Third AP: Ready charge HQ when seeing it.


If the HQ is on one of the tiles of the blue path it gets charged and if its more forward it moves once and then gets charged immedeatly by the 55th

 

[MrRageQuit]

[X] Plan: Take Those Guns
-[X] Note: Actions are taken in the listed order
-[X] 45th Elv: ROUTING
-[X] 19th Half Pfd: Rest
-[X] 5th Hob H Art: Move (NW, NE), Set Up, Fire on Ott 17th Hum
-[X] 84th Elv Art: Move x2 (NE x4), Brace
-[X] 10th Hum Art: Move x2 (NW, NE, NE, NW), Brace
-[X] 31st Elv Art: Move x2 (NW, W, W), Set UP
-[X] 108th Elv Hsr: Move x2 75th Elv Art (W, NW, NW, NE x4, E) [Facing NE]
-[X] 42nd Elv: Charge x2 Prov Elv Art (NW x4), Melee
-[X] 72nd Hum: Charge x3 Ott 17th Hum (W, W, NW)
-[X] 148th Hum: Charge x2 60th Elv Art (NW x3), Melee
-[X] 55th Elv Hsr: Charge 14th Elv H Art x2 (NE, NE, NW x3, SW), Melee
-[X] 13th Hob Lan: Move x2 (NE, NW x4, NE x5), Charge 14th Elv H Art (NW x3, W)
-[X] Guillory Hussars: Take out the 28th Elv Artillery, and then other discovered artillery if possible. If not, then target the Neu 20th Dwa and Son 74th Elv
-[X] 16th Half Pfd: Move x3 (NE x4)
-[X] 251st Hob: Move x3 (NE, NW, NE x4)
-[X] 200th Hob: Move x3 (NE x6)
-[X] 28th Half Pfd: Move x3 (NW x6) [Facing NW]

 

[NSchwerte]

AnyDice

AnyDice is an advanced dice probability calculator, available online. It is created with roleplaying games in mind.

anydice.com

We start the turn by making some room:

The 13th charges the 17th from the SW. The 17th rout from the charge morale roll, getting no counterattack. and stopping the brace from hindering our movement and also giing the artillery behind them a morale roll(may very well rout them already lol).

The 31st and 84th shoot the Provisional artillery, which flanks them and two flank morale rolls rout them.

The 55th moves to charge the 60th from behind, routing them with the 3 morale rolls from that attack and of course the rout morale check.

This rout also routs the 75th with like a 98% chance, but that doesnt matter

After these actions, the only units that can be unrouted are the 75th,14th and 28th, allowing us more movement.


After that, Guillory can charge the 28t. Thats 2 morale roll with disadvantage and 1 morale roll from melee, which likely routs them(and likely also kills them) but the 108th also charge the 28th, adding another morale roll with disadvantage and another charge hit. These hits im pretty sure are guaranted to rout them and also have a 96% chance to kill them. Guillory then captures the infantry in the Northeast once free to move as the 28th dies/routs)

Its important here that the 108th attacks from the SE and that guillory attacks from the East, to ensure the road is free for the 55th, which then charges into the back trying to catch the HQ if that is possible. If the 28th did not get killed they stop us from catching the hq as the 55th hits them with the charge order, but on the other hand that does nearly make sure that we kill them for good in exchange.


Our Infantry will then attempt to kill the 14th Elv Horse artillery:
The 148th moves 3*NW, Close ranges shoots the 14th (-20)
The 72nd moves 2*NW, 2*Medium range shoots the 14th (2*-20)
The 42nd moves 4*NW, Medium range shoots the 14th (-30)
The 5th moves forward into medium range and shoots the 14th (-40, 9 wounding)
The 10th shoots the 14th(-70, advantage, 9 wounding)

This results in a 92,5% chance to kill the 14th.

The 75th, 60th and 75th then get captured next turn/surrender probably


This course of actions results in all visible units getting captured except the 14th and 28nd.

It has a 96 % chance to kill the 28th and a 92,5% chance to kill the 14th.

It also attacks the enemy HQ if it is on the field unless the HQ is in a very unfortunate spot.

It is possible to 100% guarantee capturing the 28th if we want to give up on the HQ(the 55th just moves together with the 108th to block the road)

Im not sure if its possible to 100% guarantee capturing the 14th. Thats so much movement. We could block the escape path through the elschshain, except we pretty much need to have units on all sides to actually stop them from getting out somehow.



Edit: wait actually... We dont need to kill the artillery, we just need to rout and capture them! I think its possible to capture everything 100%, ill cook

 

[NSchwerte]

Morale Rolls required if von Trotha rolls 20 every time:

28th: -8 ; 3 Rolls
Prov: -16 ; 2 Rolls
14th: -6 ; 4 Rolls
60th: -12; 2 Rolls
75th: -12; 2 Rolls
17th: -23; 1 Roll

1 Morale Roll on the 17:

28th: -8 ; 3 Rolls
Prov: -16 ; 2 Rolls
14th: -6 ; 4 Rolls
60th: -12; 1 Rolls
75th: -12; 1 Rolls
17th: -23; 0 Roll

1 Morale Roll on the 60th:

28th: -8 ; 3 Rolls
Prov: -16 ; 2 Rolls
14th: -6 ; 2 Rolls
60th: -12; 0 Rolls
75th: -12; 0 Rolls
17th: -23; 0 Roll

We need 2 morale, distributed between the 17th or the 60th, with at least one on the 60th. The easiest way is probably a charge on the 60th - charge + melee routs them and chain routs the 75th and 17th, which together hits the 14th twice. This can be achieved with any of the infantry, but getting around the bracing means that i think we require 3 ap from infantry. I will use the 148th here, going:
148nd: Move NW, NE, NW, Charge 60th(routs from charge+melee)


That leaves us 3 artillery to rout and we need to caputre the 28th and 14th. The Provisional is easy, our normal artillery shoots them in the back and routs with flanking:

28th: -8 ; 3 Rolls
Prov: -16 ; 0 Rolls
14th: -6 ; 2 Rolls
60th: -12; 0 Rolls
75th: -12; 0 Rolls
17th: -23; 0 Roll

Expended units: 148th, 84th, 31st

The 13th is left with only having one thing it can do, that is charging the 14th. It charges and routs them with charge+Melee.

The 72nd can then move NE, NW, NE, 3*W, capturing the 14th Horse arrtillery

28th: -8 ; 3 Rolls
Prov: -16 ; 0 Rolls
14th: -6 ; 0 Rolls
60th: -12; 0 Rolls
75th: -12; 0 Rolls
17th: -23; 0 Roll

Expended units: 148th, 84th, 31st, 108th, 72nd, 148th

Then the 108th is only left with charging the 28th as the thing it can do, so it can charge them from the flank, routing them with melee, flank, charge, the 42nd can then capture:

108: 3*E, 5*NE, NW, 3*NE, Charge 28th
42nd: Move 5*NW, Move NE to capture 28th

28th: -8 ; 0 Rolls
Prov: -16 ; 0 Rolls
14th: -6 ; 0 Rolls
60th: -12; 0 Rolls
75th: -12; 0 Rolls
17th: -23; 0 Roll

Reading the capture rules again i actually noticed a trap:

You can force enemy Units to Surrender if:

• The enemy Unit ends the Round with one of your Units in the same Hex, AND
• The enemy Unit has no friendly non-Routed Units in an adjacent Hex

Click to shrink...

We need to end the turn in the same hex to capture! we cant capture 3 regiment in one turn!

But thats actually not a probem. Guillory can have one hussars block the tile northeast of the 20th and together with the 108th the 20th/74th cannot escape. The other unit can capture the 155th.

This means we are guaranteed to capture all visible units. The only thing left is the HQ, for which we have the 55th. It can just move after our artillery routed the provisional artillery, sweep the entire back row of plains and then ready a charge in the middle of the field. The HQ would need to be currently in one of the forest tiles on the northern edge to escape without getting hit, in which case we kinda cant hit it.



Damn this was fun, the problem is probably that i treat every turn like a puzzle that can be solved for the perfect solution like this one

 

[EagerListener]

Units can only Move out of the map if there are no non-Routed enemy Units adjacent.

Click to shrink...

A single cavalry unit can just move ahead and deny three tiles that are possible for retreat. 3 cav can deny 9 tiles. Pretty sure we can just block most of Trotha's units from moving off the map.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Taking our their artillery should get us a lot of Influence. We get +5 per Trained Unit and +15 for a Regular one, so we should be getting even more from Professional and Experienced units. Plus the guns themselves. Hopefully there's a way we can exchange our surplus for additional Influence.

So I'd rate taking out the artillery far higher than finishing off the infantry. We can probably get and probably do want to get that one intact human infantry regiment because that gets rid of a very good CO, but otherwise I think more effort to guarantee that we take out the artillery is worth more than chasing after a couple of Trained infantry regiments with bad COs (the 74th Elves and 20th Dwarves.) Not to mention the artillery seems to be where most of von Trotha's good COs ended up.

 

[MrRageQuit]

All right, I made a slight tweak to my plan, having Guillory's pair focus specifically on artillery only.

 

[The Laurent]

All right, I made a slight tweak to my plan, having Guillory's pair focus specifically on artillery only.

Click to shrink...

...so you're going to neglect actually taking infantry even HARDER in the face of people going, "Ignoring the infantry is silly."

 

[NSchwerte]

I think I'm really bad at explaining stuff, cause I demonstrated that we can capture every unit on the map with full certainty :/

 

[Chimeraguard]

Well, I think targeting infantry ought to depend on which infantry we're taking out.

I consider effort to capture the 17th Human Infantry to be worthwhile, given that they're unscathed and led by a Defensive Genius CO. That's the kind of CO we want to nip in the bud. Plus, they're a human infantry unit that's gotten off at least one attack IIRC. Combine that with taking no casualties so far, and that'd be enough to bump them up to Regulars. So yeah, take them out.

The other two visible Infantry units nearby are the 20th Dwarves and 74th Elven. Both with Careless COs. Not really worth the effort of capturing until we've guaranteed everything else, either in terms of the Influence gain or denying the enemy valuable future assets. I'd love to see an enemy Order of Battle stuffed with Careless Infantry COs.

If we can suss out where the 31st Dwarves are and take them out, I'd be for taking steps to that, given that even though the 31st has taken horrific casualties, that's still a Brilliant CO who can make a completely Green regiment fight like Regulars, or Trained fight like Professionals.

 

[NSchwerte]

Blocking the exits with horses just feels like cheating

No careful chain rout, no choreographed movement where one attack makes space for another attack, just us pushing 4 cavalry in a loose line and capturing every unit on the field

 

[birdmaster01]

Blocking the exits with horses just feels like cheating

Click to shrink...

Tacticla Insight no.619
This is war
If you're not taking every advantage the situation offers you,you're dead