Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

I am not sure about the Wolf hole, especially as it leaves the center exposed if Von Trotha does decide to attack through it. Could you explain what the thought behind it?
The main goal of the wolf hole is the addition of rough terrain - it functions as the hills do, to force enemies to stop (or slow down) and spend a turn exposed to our center artillery before coming out of the basin. Secondary goal is to bait cavalry into charging the 5th through it to kill a ton of horses and break their charge, if they're dumb enough to fall for it.

Either way it serves as a cover for the eventual fallback of the 5th and its screens.
 
Not mine. Assuming he has literally any screening force for artillery on the map, Rotholz can shoot back. Plus there is a chance of long-ranged shots with the 10th (-20 with advantage.). Unless his plan for attack consists of "wait outside of enemy artillery range", which would be weird Fortress Rotholz gives us a guaranteed opportunity to shoot at the enemy.

He can just shelter all of his infantry behind hills where the 5th doesn't have a firing line, it's not like we can punish his lack of screens.


Why would he want Sarnscheid to move trough the forest? Because it prevents our own horse artillery from flanking this attempt. Crossing the forest doesn't work with persistent flanking fire. This means force for a defense, would even be vulnerable to an assualt.

I'd be happy to play it out if you think putting the 5th I to Sarnscheid would prevent the Räuberwald bypass, but no it doesn't, seeing as he can just switch to an assault on the vulnerable 5th when you do that.

Not suicide. Just a very, very one-sides melee with a low chance of success, but importantly one that doesn't have zero chance of winning. A point the enemy has to take if he wants to move further.

He has a low chance to win in an assault on Kinzberg too, with very high rolls or instakills, which is what he would need to do to take Rotholz too.
 
He can just shelter all of his infantry behind hills where the 5th doesn't have a firing line, it's not like we can punish his lack of screens.
Again, assuming his offensive plans involve something other than hiding behind the hills. Which is a safe assumption to make.
The main goal of the wolf hole is the addition of rough terrain - it functions as the hills do, to force enemies to stop (or slow down) and spend a turn exposed to our center artillery before coming out of the basin. Secondary goal is to bait cavalry into charging the 5th through it to kill a ton of horses and break their charge, if they're dumb enough to fall for it.
Yeah, about that: We're fighting an enemy who "rarely uses cavalry for things other than screening and commits infantry only after lengthy artillery bombardment". Why are we committing resources solely to countering an aggressive cavalry push/infantry push from the flanks? I can see considering this while positioning, but I don't think it's useful for Village Outpost to commit a fifth of our resources to slowing an enemy across a particular pass.
 
Yeah, about that: We're fighting an enemy who "rarely uses cavalry for things other than screening and commits infantry only after lengthy artillery bombardment". Why are we committing resources solely to countering an aggressive cavalry push/infantry push from the flanks? I can see considering this while positioning, but I don't think it's useful for Village Outpost to commit a fifth of our resources to slowing an enemy across a particular pass.
And I don't think it's worth committing 60% of our resources to spoil a sightline and give the enemy slightly worse cover. As I said my PRIMARY goal is to make the eastern valley less useful as an attack vector. If it kills some horses that's a bonus, not the sole objective.

Like, an aggressive push on the flanks is the only problem I see with the Kinzberg plan, which is why I wrote the plan I did. The center is well fucking covered, we just need a way to block or blunt pushes that our main artillery battery can't deal with, hence the flank forces in general.
 
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And I don't think it's worth committing 60% of our resources to spoil a sightline and give the enemy slightly worse cover. As I said my PRIMARY goal is to make the eastern valley less useful as an attack vector. If it kills some horses that's a bonus, not the sole objective.
That hill ensures an western corridor enemy artillery can't reach from the starting position, something quite valuable. Hills provide absolute defence against artillery.
 
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The main goal of the wolf hole is the addition of rough terrain - it functions as the hills do, to force enemies to stop (or slow down) and spend a turn exposed to our center artillery before coming out of the basin. Secondary goal is to bait cavalry into charging the 5th through it to kill a ton of horses and break their charge, if they're dumb enough to fall for it.

Either way it serves as a cover for the eventual fallback of the 5th and its screens.

Hmmm, I am not fully convinced mostly because I expect him to attack through the center and without that extra breastwork we are quite a bit more exposed, but it does make some amount of sense.


Again, assuming his offensive plans involve something other than hiding behind the hills. Which is a safe assumption to make.

I think it's a safe assumption that he would not have his infantry stand in the open while he is shelling us for no reason.

Wouldnt it be a safe assumption that his assault on Kinzberg would involve something other than hiding beyond range too if this were the case?


Yeah, about that: We're fighting an enemy who "rarely uses cavalry for things other than screening and commits infantry only after lengthy artillery bombardment". Why are we committing resources solely to countering an aggressive cavalry push/infantry push from the flanks? I can see considering this while positioning, but I don't think it's useful for Village Outpost to commit a fifth of our resources to slowing an enemy across a particular pass.

I mean, if we can rely on him not charging the 5th it never actually gets threatened in the east, but I certainly don't want to rely on something like that

That hill ensures an eastern corridor enemy artillery can't reach from the starting position, something quite valuable. Hills provide absolute defence against artillery.

Do you mean a western corridor? Usually I can tell but here I am not sure
 
What's stopping them from just putting a cannon on the rampart, though.
This position is more exposed and vulnerable to cavalry charges from the side. They can do it, but in the process they expose infantry to our lines of fire, specifically from Rotholz.
I think it's a safe assumption that he would not have his infantry stand in the open while he is shelling us for no reason.
He doesn't get a choice here, infantry cover is a necessity. Either he tries holding Sarnscheid, which means putting infantry/screening force into a artillery range, or we get a cavalry charge. It's a worthwile investment.
 
He doesn't get a choice here, infantry cover is a necessity. Either he tries holding Sarnscheid, which means putting infantry/screening force into a artillery range, or we get a cavalry charge. It's a worthwile investment.

No? If we try cavalry charging his artillery he can just have his own cavalry intercept and then blast our cavalry with 7 medium range shots
 
This position is more exposed and vulnerable to cavalry charges from the side. They can do it, but in the process they expose infantry to our lines of fire, specifically from Rotholz.

Well, MORE of his Infantry would be exposed, I guess, though we're talking about 1 or 2 fewer infantry in cover considering the E and SE of the fort are already exposed. If you deployed the main arty line on the far or secondmost north rank (to get the southern screening of the rampart position in medium range) I might see the benefits more.
 
No? If we try cavalry charging his artillery he can just have his own cavalry intercept and then blast our cavalry with 7 medium range shots
Not in the Sarnscheid corridor. That particular area offers very, very limited firelines from the eastern mountains. If he tries to screen using cavalry, we shoot the cavalry instead. Any cavalry trying to intercept us needs to cross medium range for our 2 artillery batteries in the middle, making this a favourable exchange. There are advantages from having 2 angles of fire.
Well, MORE of his Infantry would be exposed, I guess, though we're talking about 1 or 2 fewer infantry in cover considering the E and SE of the fort are already exposed. If you deployed the main arty line on the far or secondmost north rank (to get the southern screening of the rampart position in medium range) I might see the benefits more.
It offers additional cover, though the potential cavalry attack on Sarnscheid AND limiting firepower against Rotholz makes this worth it. In truth, this is just there to force his hand: Assault Rotholz or see us slowly bomb your forces and eventually loose to a cavalry attack. The most efficient use of hills are next to other hills, since you block more firelines this way.
 
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Not in the Sarnscheid corridor. That particular area offers very, very limited firelines from the eastern mountains. If he tries to screen using cavalry, we shoot the cavalry instead. Any cavalry trying to intercept us needs to cross medium range for our 2 artillery batteries in the middle, making this a favourable exchange. There are advantages from having 2 angles of fire.

Are we talking about different things? I am still talking about him bombarding the Rotholz fort, where Sarnscheid is completely useless cause he can just have them nestled at his deployment zone.

You said that while he is bombarding our infantry the 5th could bombard his infantry back and I responded that he could just hide his infantry and rely on cavalry ready charges to prevent any of our cavalry from charging them
 
Are we talking about different things? I am still talking about him bombarding the Rotholz fort, where Sarnscheid is completely useless cause he can just have them nestled at his deployment zone.

You said that while he is bombarding our infantry the 5th could bombard his infantry back and I responded that he could just hide his infantry and rely on cavalry ready charges to prevent any of our cavalry from charging them
Your proposing bombarding Rotholz with no shootable screen elements. Unkess he wants only a single artillery on the easterm hill (3 W of Ottenburg), that isn't possible. Plus the artillery takes -80, so you really need mass if you want an actual softening effect. If he's willing to wait for one battery to shoot 4 times as long, this would be a valid critique, but I don't think that is likely.
 
Hmmm, I am not fully convinced mostly because I expect him to attack through the center and without that extra breastwork we are quite a bit more exposed, but it does make some amount of sense.
Missed this but I think fundamentally where you and I disagree is on whether he's going to try to force the center, or use the flanks to infiltrate closer before starting his charge. I think both of our plans are flexible enough to handle either, it's just a question of details and where we're committing our immobile resources.
 
Missed this but I think fundamentally where you and I disagree is on whether he's going to try to force the center, or use the flanks to infiltrate closer before starting his charge. I think both of our plans are flexible enough to handle either, it's just a question of details and where we're committing our immobile resources.
Just for the sake of me: How is this plan flexible enough to react? We are confined to a single firing position, with the planning involving nominal forces on the hill. This eastern position is in medium range of enemy artillery, giving him a target to bombard with the Rotholz making a cavalry charge on them non-viable. The hills will be abandoned, after which Trotha is completly free to move around. I'm only seeing a plan that puts our forces in one place, hoping the enemy volunteers to run into artillery range without a reason.
 
Your proposing bombarding Rotholz with no shootable screen elements. Unkess he wants only a single artillery on the easterm hill (3 W of Ottenburg), that isn't possible. Plus the artillery takes -80, so you really need mass if you want an actual softening effect. If he's willing to wait for one battery to shoot 4 times as long, this would be a valid critique, but I don't think that is likely.



He absolutely doesnt have a problem deploying his artillery in range of our screens.

a rampart east of Sarnscheid and two breastworks NW and W of Rotholz turm, you can see them in the image above
 
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@Red Rationalist, how are you going to deploy the defensives, can't see them in your plan.
Apologies, I didn't include the picture in the plan vote. It's fixed now.
He absolutely doesnt have a problem deploying his artillery in range of our screens
Well, if his sole plan is to march towards the middle with no regard for covering the flanks, he could deploy like this. Though I still think you need screening forces in this position, with the artillery unprotected on the flanks. Forces we can target.

And of course he will have to realize that he can't bombard our forces out Rotholz, not when he's shooting at -80. He needs to put infantry there in range for the melee. Infantry we can target, thus starting chain of events needed to bring effective firepower against him.
 
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Well, if his sole plan is to march towards the middle with no regard for covering the flanks, he could deploy like this. Though I still think you need screening forces in this position, with the artillery unprotected on the flanks. Forces we can target.

And of course he will have to realize that he can't bombard our forces out Rotholz, not when he's shooting at -80. He needs to put infantry there in range for the melee. Infantry we can target.

Are you deliberately trying to lead me around in circles?

You say Von Trotha will shoot at us from long range against our -90 cover with the Kinzberg plan.

I say Von Trotha could shoot from medium range into -80 cover with the Rotholz plan.

You say no, we could shoot back at his screens.

I show you that he can shoot us without exposing screens using read charge.

You say he will realise that he can't bombard our forces at Rotholz, who are in -80 Cover.


You say he will shoot at us from long range against -90 cover in Kinzberg plan and that he will not shoot at us from medium range against -80 cover in Rotholz plan.

This does not fit with each other
 
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Just for the sake of me: How is this plan flexible enough to react? We are confined to a single firing position, with the planning involving nominal forces on the hill. This eastern position is in medium range of enemy artillery, giving him a target to bombard with the Rotholz making a cavalry charge on them non-viable. The hills will be abandoned, after which Trotha is completly free to move around. I'm only seeing a plan that puts our forces in one place, hoping the enemy volunteers to run into artillery range without a reason.
The plan is flexible because we're putting units down that can fall back to the primary line easily. There's one tile where he can hit the 5th or the screens at medium range, and that's Rotholz Turm itself. If he posts up his HArt there before he begins advancing, fine, that position isn't really useful for him for any other purposes, and we have our cavalry able to approach from the south and try to gank it before his main push starts (since a Rotholz cannon cannot fire south). If he posts up during his main advance (which doesn't match his established tactics) then that's less optimal but we can still easily fall back after doing some attrition shots and we've got the wolf holes as plan B.
 
Are you deliberately playing dumb?

You say Von Trotha will shoot at us from long range against our -90 cover with the Kinzberg plan.

I say Von Trotha could shoot from medium range into -80 cover with the Rotholz plan.
I've been very clear about the difference between the scenarios: The weakness in your plan is that Trotha has no options other than "long-range attritional bombardment" or "sucidal attack". Storming Rotholz deals -30 melee attacks. Not great, but it beats exhausting your munition supply. The difference is the options on the table, with Rotholz putting him on time pressure if he wants to move outside his deployment zone.

By comparison, staying turtled up in Klinzberg has no other option of clearing the position. The infantry would take dive in without fire support, without a win scenario. The chance of clearing Rotholz is slim, but it exists. There isn't a scenario where the infantry attack on Klinzberg works, so he won't try it. Waiting for the long-range bombardment to stop, after we waited for 13 turns of him moving up artillery.
 
I've been very clear about the difference between the scenarios: The weakness in your plan is that Trotha has no options other than "long-range attritional bombardment" or "sucidal attack". Storming Rotholz deals -30 melee attacks. Not great, but it beats exhausting your munition supply. The difference is the options on the table, with Rotholz putting him on time pressure if he wants to move outside his deployment zone.

By comparison, staying turtled up in Klinzberg has no other option of clearing the position. The infantry would take dive in without fire support, without a win scenario. The chance of clearing Rotholz is slim, but it exists. There isn't a scenario where the infantry attack on Klinzberg works, so he won't try it. Waiting for the long-range bombardment to stop, after we waited for 13 turns of him moving up artillery.

Your plan relies on Von Trotha seeing that he has a 1% chance to win if he throws his army at us where it cannot be supported by his artillery and deciding that that is what he will do.

He will ignore the path through the Räuberwald, which allows him to buy pass our fortifications and fight us as an equal, he will ignore doing a very long Bombardement, He will send his units in for a 1% chance at success.

Got it

Also if he rolls very well an infantry assault on Kinzberg works too.

Also I find it great that the criticism of my plan is now that it is literally invincible, which is bad
 
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What about if I put hallfings into the plains cover, so his best shot at long range is -90 with a disadvantage?

Will he still bombard them at long range?

What if I leave the plains open until an enemy comes into 9 tiles of it, meaning his best shot is -110, will he still bombard
 
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