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An Unknown Future

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veekie said:
[X][Action] Build Rafts
[X][Action] Refine Story - A Better Way

We have the route. Just replenish the rafts and grab the outcrop camp next turn.
This turn we have a good opportunity to refine A Better Way.
See, all the sabotage during the race is due to A Better Way, the foxes felt that sabotaging each other was A Better Way to win the race than working harder to meet the task.
Which made us take longer to reach the destination and miss out the other paths

Thus refinement is the lesson that trying new ways to succeed is better than making others fail.
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Don't you think Together would be a better story to refine to show that?
 
veekie said:
Together is about teamwork...but when they tried teamwork they got stuck since the raft was too hard to maneuver.

Backfire
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ya but we are hoping to evolve it to keep the villages from breaking off like that stone village did. The trait seems like it would evolve to promote a greater identity as a people.
 
[X][Action] Refine Story - Together
[X][Action] Refine Story - A Better Way
[X] [Action] Be Creative
Refining a story and working on improving our culture seems to be a good combination to take.
Voting for both as i want one to win but think both could help if they win.

Can we do an build camp action at our current camp to expand it?
 
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I would like to point out to people voting for Build Rafts that the last time we voted for that when Rafts was at "a few" (link) we went to having too many rafts. Now obviously this isn't guaranteed to happen again and possibly people are willing to take that risk (@bluefur87, how damaging are these sorts of events anyway?) but I don't think we should do that and instead am going to vote for improving culture:

[X] [Action] Craft Ornaments
[X] [Action] Tell New Story

and approval vote:
[X] [Action] New Camp: Flint Stone Outcrop
 
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I suspect that if we repeatedly pushed the envelope of raft limit, our people would learn to deal with it.
 
RulerOfNothing said:
I would like to point out to people voting for Build Rafts that the last time we voted for that when Rafts was at "a few" (link) we went to having too many rafts. Now obviously this isn't guaranteed to happen again and possibly people are willing to take that risk (@bluefur87, how damaging are these sorts of events anyway?) but I don't think we should do that and instead am going to vote for improving culture:
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....its not actually harmful you know? It just means hunting becomes less important
 
Guys, don't forget that we need tools to both create a new camp AND build more rafts. So it's better to preserve what tools we have for the camp.

Also, Refining a Story most likely takes Culture. The thing that glues our society together. We currently have Very Little Culture, and I believe the last time we took an action that ate culture when we were this low, we went straight to No Culture.

[X][Action] Refine Story - A Better Way
[X] [Action] Be Creative

And approval Vote:
[X] [Action] New Camp: Flint Stone Outcrop
 
Archive: Civilization Stat sheet for " Racing Games "; (Update 8.0/ Threadmark 13)
bluefur87 said:
Stats:

Tools: Some
Rafts: A Few
Culture: Very Little
Prestige: None
Population: Low
Authority: Low
-???
-Omnivore: Access to all types of food.
-Playful Fox: Bonus to social interactions.
A Better Way
When someone is forced between hard choices and a need to sacrifice something, it is because they have not found the correct trail on which to travel.
Pros: More options when facing a crises.
Cons: More things are considered a crises by your population.

Together
The world is mighty and its challenges great and numerous, perhaps even impossible. When working together and helping one another, those challenges become easier, more realistic, and possible.
Pros: Gain a bonus to actions based on population.
Cons: Population cap decreased.
Organization Type:
Primitive Despotic Tribe:
A form of government where there is one individual who the tribe all look to for jobs and chores to do. This individual does not have any tradition that gives them a leadership over the Tribe, but there is something about the culture that puts an immense amount of power in their hands to the point where there might as well be.

Leadership: Story Teller
Tools
-Advanced Stoneworking

Construction
-Early Tribal Shelters

Food
-Hunting and Gathering
-Fishing

Transportation
-Early Rafts
-Early Rafting

Spiritual
-Stone Seeing
-Primitive Singing
-Fishing Grounds
-Flint Outcrop (Extremely Distant)
Fish Bay: A large bay teeming with fish. It is the current location of your tribe.

Flint Outcrop: A distant outcrop that contains high quality stone for tool making. Very hard to get to, however, and taking a lot of fox's attention.

Ocean Forest River: Said to be a great river that runs into the Ocean Forest, it is located extremely far from your camp and few foxes have seen it. There is also said to be a deposit of high quality stone there.

Ocean Forest: A large forest, seemingly sunk into the ocean, full of bugs and strange creatures. Also very hard to navigate. A route has been found through the forest that leads to the Flint Outcrop on the Ocean Forest River.

The Mist: A distant white cloud along one shoreline, reminiscent of the crests of waves. It takes up much of the horizon and warm winds seem to come from this direction.
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To everybody who keeps voting for a new camp:
Kirron 999 said:
Why do people keep voting for the new camp? We simply don't have the pop or traditions in place to maintain our control over it in the long-term, particularly not after coming out of a crisis like the storms, which meant we couldn't fish for food, which meant population decline. WE DO NOT HAVE THE POPULATION TO REMAIN IN CONTROL OF A SECOND CAMP, AND CREATING ONE, EVEN IF IT WAS VIABLE, WILL CRIPPLE US CONSIDERABLY IN THE SHORT TERM. Alternatively, we can wait till we have enough population/traditions, and then found a new camp with almost no drawbacks comparatively.
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Add in the fact that we have the river path to the place now and it just becomes ridiculous. Also @bluefur87 wouldn't a more accurate description of our stone working tech be: Early/Intermediate Neolithic flint knapping? Because 'Advanced Stone Working' implies knowledge of engineering and potentially widespread use of stone in constructing permanent structures. Something which, we, as a neolithic culture, quite assuredly, do not have.
 
Kirron 999 said:
To everybody who keeps voting for a new camp:

Add in the fact that we have the river path to the place now and it just becomes ridiculous. Also @bluefur87 wouldn't a more accurate description of our stone working tech be: Early/Intermediate Neolithic flint knapping? Because 'Advanced Stone Working' implies knowledge of engineering and potentially widespread use of stone in constructing permanent structures. Something which, we, as a neolithic culture, quite assuredly, do not have.
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well if you won't refine the together story... WE WILL NEVER HAVE THE POP! that story limits our population and according to @bluefur87 the QM we are at our pop cap currently! its why I am trying to refine the story or go set up the camp! We need to increase our pop one way or another, as population is the most important aspect of a nation.
 
RulerOfNothing said:
(@bluefur87, how damaging are these sorts of events anyway?)
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What happens when you get too many of one stat is greatly randomized and dependent on your current situation, along with various dice rolls.

So, 'depends'.
Kirron 999 said:
To everybody who keeps voting for a new camp:

Add in the fact that we have the river path to the place now and it just becomes ridiculous. Also @bluefur87 wouldn't a more accurate description of our stone working tech be: Early/Intermediate Neolithic flint knapping? Because 'Advanced Stone Working' implies knowledge of engineering and potentially widespread use of stone in constructing permanent structures. Something which, we, as a neolithic culture, quite assuredly, do not have.
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Well, yes, that is basically what you have.

However, various fantasy elements combined with you being able to lose tech (and thus, your later generations don't necessarily know what it is they lost) have caused me to favor a more vague tech description at this stage of the game.

I should probably go over the tech a bit more thoroughly, though... Thank you for pointing out the potential misunderstanding.
san said:
well if you won't refine the together story... WE WILL NEVER HAVE THE POP! that story limits our population and according to @bluefur87 the QM we are at our pop cap currently! its why I am trying to refine the story or go set up the camp! We need to increase our pop one way or another, as population is the most important aspect of a nation.
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You have yet to hit your current pop cap, only the amount of pop that can fit in your camp.


Neat, discussions. As a way to encourage more discussion, I shall give a small hint regard to why all the foxes set those traps during the race. While the values are related, it is a combination of something you have, and something you don't have, that are the main culprits there.
 
bluefur87 said:
Neat, discussions. As a way to encourage more discussion, I shall give a small hint regard to why all the foxes set those traps during the race. While the values are related, it is a combination of something you have, and something you don't have, that are the main culprits there.
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We currently completely lack a Justice value, we have an "Anything goes to achieve success" value and "Everyone should work together" value...in a scenario where they were competing and unable to work together. So Success At Any Costs took precedence.

[X][Action] Refine Story - A Better Way
[X] [Action] Be Creative

Also refilling Culture
 
veekie said:
We currently completely lack a Justice value, we have an "Anything goes to achieve success" value and "Everyone should work together" value...in a scenario where they were competing and unable to work together. So Success At Any Costs took precedence.

[X][Action] Refine Story - A Better Way
[X] [Action] Be Creative

Also refilling Culture
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ya thats a good point I can dig that... But I think a camp next turn is an absolute must. It does not have to be the flint camp we could merely make a camp closer to the river forest along the bay and get that filled up before making a third camp by the flint outcrop afterwards as that will allow us to be much closer and have more of a connection between the camps.

[X][Action] Refine Story - A Better Way
[X] [Action] Be Creative

bluefur87 said:
I mean, you could also find some sort of tech or maybe value that would give you a bigger pop for your camp.

I won't comment on how possible either one is.
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something tells me thats next to impossible to get anytime soon. So I would prefer to expand our pop. Even if the camp breaks off from us at least we will be settling the area further with more Kitsune/Faunus rather than having humans come in and take over instead which would be VERY bad.

We will at least be able to trade with these guys and probably eventually have them become a part of us.
 
bluefur87 said:
You have yet to hit your current pop cap, only the amount of pop that can fit in your camp.
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In that case I am fully open to expanding the camp, but we are NOT establishing a new one when we can't retain control of it. However, for this turn we really want to refine a story to get the bonuses it would bring due to the race. SO next turn we expand the camp with a side of creative, ornamentals or tools?

Could I also suggest that the stone working be called Neolithic Flintworking? Or have a more accurate name put in place if we can tell what tech stage we're at correctly?
 
Huh, we hit the pop cap in our current camp? Would've been nice to get some sort of information on that in the updates or the info-post; so far I'd been under the impression that there was still room to grow.

In that case, changing my vote to:

[x][action] Craft Ornament
[x][action] New Camp (Mistward Fish Bay)
[X] [Action] New Camp: Flint Stone Outcrop

More population means ultimately being able to do more stuff.

EDIT: Added in flint outcrop camp in hopes of raising the chances of a new camp in general through approval voting.
san said:
ya thats a good point I can dig that... But I think a camp next turn is an absolute must. It does not have to be the flint camp we could merely make a camp closer to the river forest along the bay and get that filled up before making a third camp by the flint outcrop afterwards as that will allow us to be much closer and have more of a connection between the camps.
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I think we should do the complete opposite; build a new camp first, so our population can already start to grow, then refine one of our stories. Otherwise, our population will stagnate for the turn we spend refining the story, hampering our long-term growth.
 
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Kelenas said:
Huh, we hit the pop cap in our current camp? Would've been nice to get some sort of information on that in the updates or the info-post; so far I'd been under the impression that there was still room to grow.

In that case, changing my vote to:

[x][action] Craft Ornament
[x][action] New Camp (Mistward Fish Bay)

More population means ultimately being able to do more stuff.


I think we should do the complete opposite; build a new camp first, so our population can already start to grow, then refine one of our stories. Otherwise, our population will stagnate for the turn we spend refining the story, hampering our long-term growth.
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very true! @bluefur87 can we build the new camp to be specifically as close to the river forest as possible to make travel to the flint outcrop easier/faster?

[x][action] Craft Ornament
[x][action] New Camp (Mistward Fish Bay)
 
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