very true! @bluefur87 can we build the new camp to be specifically as close to the river forest as possible to make travel to the flint outcrop easier/faster?
The camp specifically closest to the ocean forest is the Mistward side of the bay, since the ocean forest is in that direction past the bay.
Basically where the Fishers have been setting up their, ahem, 'secret getaway'.
Edit: If you mean by paw, then the two remaining camp sites are close enough for it to not matter, by raft the distance doesn't matter enough either from your current camp.
I think we should do the complete opposite; build a new camp first, so our population can already start to grow, then refine one of our stories. Otherwise, our population will stagnate for the turn we spend refining the story, hampering our long-term growth.
On the other hand we lose the narrative shaping opportunity to modify our traits with. I.e. next turn would not be an appropriate turn to refine the story regardless as the chance is semi-random based on events and luck. We had an event that says that "fucking over each other makes you less able to achieve your goal".
This is a bigger loss than a turn's worth of population growth
On the other hand we lose the narrative shaping opportunity to modify our traits with. I.e. next turn would not be an appropriate turn to refine the story regardless as the chance is semi-random based on events and luck. We had an event that says that "fucking over each other makes you less able to achieve your goal".
This is a bigger loss than a turn's worth of population growth
We'd lose nothing; we're quite capable of refining stories without such events. Said events might make it easier, but they are not a prerequisite.
And no, it's not a bigger loss than population growth. Population is one of our biggest bottlenecks bar none; it determines how easily we can withstand disasters or crisises of various sorts, what sort of resources we can have access to, how fast we develop socially, technologically, culturally, how readily we can withstand conflict with others tribes and cultures we might encounter later, and countless other things.
If you think refining the story is such a big deal, then vote for it alongside the new camp; but the new camp is something we absolutely must do this turn, so we can keep growing.
Huh, we hit the pop cap in our current camp? Would've been nice to get some sort of information on that in the updates or the info-post; so far I'd been under the impression that there was still room to grow.
Still, point remains; it means we need to build a new camp immediately in order to keep growing our population. Refining stories can be done either later or concurrently with that.
[Action] Refine Story- A Better Way
[Action] Be Creative
Doing Better
Ocean Tree was the proud son of Swift Tail and Running Paw, the two lovers of the Great Raft Race, back when it was still a thing. When he was still young and a kit, he would be sat down near the fire, away from most of the camp and next to the small group of rafters from the good old days, back when rafts were plenty and it seemed like every fox knew how to raft, and hear tales told from those times.
Him and the other kits heard about the time Old Bush Tail, whom all the elder fishers talked about fondly, took out every raft in the race by sneaking out a red moon ahead of all the others and sinking spears into the ocean forest waters, only to fall prey to his own trap and how those spears were still there to this day. About the constant one upping foxes did with other foxes in raft designs. And of the joy in someone finally finding the route through the Ocean Forest, only for the race to be called off now that it had finished its purpose of finding the route.
When the other kits would play scattering stones in the camp, under the watchful eyes of their parents and the crafters of the tribe, these kits would play tag in the water, their parents believing that they would learn better playing on their own and delighted that they were taking to the water as much as they were.
And when they played, it was always Ocean Tree that lead them in their games.
Other times, many of these kits, male and vixen alike, would care little for the crafting arts, often joining their parents in their fishing trips out into the bay and playing new games to see if they could catch fish with their bare paws.
Ocean Tree always caught the most.
The elders didn't quite like Ocean Tree's attitude, but he was still helping, and there were only so many rafts, so their generation of too many fishers would likely pitter out. Or so they thought.
It was when Ocean Tree had his first kit, a vixen named Hidden Spear, that he started coming more directly into odds with the elders. They insisted that she learn the art of crafting, that she help the tribe and not go off and play in the water like the fishers.
And when Ocean Tree responded that she should be able to pick her own route in life, that she should find not only a better way, but her own way, the elders chided him for acting like a kit, trying to get his own way. The next day saw Ocean Tree and almost all of the rafts gone from the camp, along with many of his kit-hood friends.
It didn't take long for the elders and few remaining fisher foxes to figure out where they had gone, and sure enough, they found them having set up in the fishers' secret camp on the mistward side of the bay.
There was a great deal of anger among many of the members of the tribe, that Ocean Tree would so brazenly take actions that hurt the tribe as a whole for his own benefit, but none felt like they could actually do anything about it, having lost the vast majority of the rafts to the rogue camp. And while many of the foxes were discussing whether or not they should go over and talk things out with Ocean Tree and the other foxes, something else happened. A new group of foxes were spotted at the inward portion of the bay.
Where did they come from? What were they doing here? It looked like they were setting up a temporary camp of their own and also fishing in the bay. They didn't have any rafts though.
This created even more controversy, and on top of the foxes that wanted to just continue refining the stories of there being a better way, remake the rafts that were lost, or meet up with the rogue fishers, there were now some that felt they needed to show the superiority of the tribe and make fanciful ornaments to show off or greet these new foxes and make sure they weren't up to anything suspicious, something many foxes scoffed as a pointless waste of time.
Still, something needed to be done, even if it was just refining the story.
In the end, the foxes decided it was best to.
[][React] Continue refining A Better Way
[][React] Meet with the troublemakers
[][React] Meet with new? foxes
[][React] Remake Rafts
[][React] Craft Ornaments
Hint: Keep in mind you do not have the Human's "Highly Empathic" trait, and instead have a Playful trait that grants you bonuses to similar actions. This has a distinct effect on the narrative of your actions.
holy SHIT we must have rolled bad there... ummmm anyone have ideas? I am thinking meet the troublemakers? maybe we can convince a few to come back? also once more we see the proof that high individualism traits are TERRIBAD with high community traits.
More that you rolled up a miscreant and a couple other... not terrible, but still poor rolls, while having several outstanding issues that caused him to pick up the current kindling you have and set it on fire.
You certainly didn't have the worst rolls this turn...
Also, I don't think it's going to be enough to cause most people to change their vote, but I'm getting a distinct feeling that some people are missing a key thing Ocean Tree did. This is going to lead to... interesting results.
Tools:Some Rafts: No Extra Culture:Very Little Prestige: None Population: Very Low Authority: Very Low
-???
-Omnivore: Access to all types of food.
-Playful Fox: Bonus to social interactions.
A Better Way
When someone is forced between hard choices and a need to sacrifice something, it is because they have not found the correct trail on which to travel. Pros: More options when facing a crises. Cons: More things are considered a crises by your population.
Together
The world is mighty and its challenges great and numerous, perhaps even impossible. When working together and helping one another, those challenges become easier, more realistic, and possible. Pros: Gain a bonus to actions based on population. Cons: Population cap decreased.
Organization Type: Primitive Despotic Tribe:
A form of government where there is one individual who the tribe all look to for jobs and chores to do. This individual does not have any tradition that gives them a leadership over the Tribe, but there is something about the culture that puts an immense amount of power in their hands to the point where there might as well be.
Fish Bay: A large bay teeming with fish. It is the current location of your tribe.
Flint Outcrop: A distant outcrop that contains high quality stone for tool making. Very hard to get to, however, and taking a lot of fox's attention.
Inland Camp: A camp of foxes from unknown origins that recently moved to the bay. They seem to be here to stay, but you have yet to meet them so any details are not well known.
Ocean Forest River: Said to be a great river that runs into the Ocean Forest, it is located extremely far from your camp and few foxes have seen it. There is also said to be a deposit of high quality stone there.
Ocean Forest: A large forest, seemingly sunk into the ocean, full of bugs and strange creatures. Also very hard to navigate. A route has been found through the forest that leads to the Flint Outcrop on the Ocean Forest River.
Fisher Camp: A former horribly kept secret camp where the fishers used to go to relax when things got too annoying for them. Now a place where many fishers live permanently.
The Mist: A distant white cloud along one shoreline, reminiscent of the crests of waves. It takes up much of the horizon and warm winds seem to come from this direction.
Also, I don't think it's going to be enough to cause most people to change their vote, but I'm getting a distinct feeling that some people are missing a key thing Ocean Forest did. This is going to lead to... interesting results.
Oh right, yeah, guys by going to meet with Ocean we are in effect a) setting a precedent that going against the tribe elders with some backing is enough to get them to kneetow to you and b) reinforcing that individuality is good thing as it gets people to listen to you, so by rewarding him by speaking with him, we're likely to screw over our community value in exchange for an individualist value. That is, if my grasp of psychology is right anyways. (Is it psychology that I'm talking about here?)
We really don't want that.
Changing vote
[x][React] Continue refining A Better Way
Mostly because we should probably get this done now rather than delaying it a wasting a whole turn's worth of actions.
The rogue fishers, troublemakers that they were, were still fellow foxes. They still grew up in the same camp, even if they did keep to themselves. They still ate the same food, even if it was slightly away from the other foxes. They still were foxes that much of the tribe looked on fondly, and even if they were being stubborn and willful about their way being the right way, they still needed to work together. So it was with great reluctance, while still remembering the lessons she taught, that the old storyteller set out on one of the few spare rafts to their little camp.
Said camp was a rough, rather ramshackle mockery of the main camp. The old matron supposed that had a lot to do with the fishers having the decency, or perhaps lack of foresight, to not take the tools with them in their little fit. When she had gotten to Ocean Tree's camp, the somewhat aging fisher seemed as put out as she felt, no doubt wondering what the 'overly controlling old crone,' wanted with him.
So she wasn't surprised when she told him the old stories, the ones that reminded the young kits of why it was important to work together, that he simply rolled his eyes. It was a bit of a surprise, though, when he replied to her with his own story.
It was the story of when their old home fallen to the cold winds and the long gone Sky Stone Tribe managed to guide them when all others could not. The belief that there was a better way.
Except, the way he told it, with slight alterations and emphasis on different things, along with incorporating latter stories, it painted a picture that, while the Sky Stone Tribe was certainly responsible for guiding them, it was through the different ideas of all foxes that they succeeded. That it was the crafter who built the rafts to sustain the journey and allowed them to stay whole as they traveled along the coast. That it was the fisher that guided them through the dangers of the waters in the Coldwards Ocean.
It was eerily similar to one of the ways she was considering altering the story to better teach the kits. Something she remembered confiding in with one of the other elder foxes.
Ocean Tree then went on to tell other stories, all emphasizing that it was what a fox chose to do that was their way, that made them great. All of them emphasizing that the better way was different for each fox.
These stories, Ocean Tree insisted, were the crux of why he was unwilling to listen to her. He could not believe in her 'better way', when it told so many foxes that their way was wrong. If she wanted them to work with the tribe together, then she needed to accept this change.
After returning and thinking over Ocean Tree's demands, the Old Storyteller decided to...
[][Story] Accept the change
[][Story] Refuse the change
And then there were many other things the tribe needed to consider going forward.
For starters, even if they did accept the change in story, the current poor camp conditions of the Rogue Fishers implied that they might need to build a proper camp in the area, though perhaps if they didn't the fishers would start returning to the proper main camp? They certainly didn't seem too keen on the idea of having a nice camp though, what with them talking up looking for secret treasures to make fanciful ornaments with around the bay.
If they did accept the foxes, and they stayed in their camp, they'd also likely need more rafts for future generations, but that was not an immediate problem.
And then there was the inland foxes that no fox had gone to meet yet. From what the fishers observed, they seemed to be content with spending copious amounts of time around the campfire or talking in general, though for what purpose, the old storyteller could not figure out. Many of the foxes wanted to meet them, but there was also a concern of how they could encourage them to be friendly towards the tribe, or if they were already secretly planning something.
Of course, there was also the possibility that none of these things were what needed to be done. None of them required immediate action, after all.
Perhaps there was something better the foxes could spend their time on?
Choose two actions from the list bellow. Use the [Action] tag to denote your choices for this and put a x2 next to any option you wish to take a second time.
Be Creative: Encourage discussion, storytelling, whatever people can think of in order to enrich the lives of your people.
Build Rafts: Use tools to make extra rafts to allow you to travel much farther to get far away resources and explore further, as long as it is along a waterway.
Craft Ornaments: Create extra decorative pieces with which to adorn people and their dwellings.
Craft Tools: Create a stockpile of tools with which to work on major projects.
Forget Story: Some songs are best forgotten, ornaments best left buried where the next generation can't see. Make an effort to forget several traditions. (Current Targets Available: A Better Way, Together)
Insult: Show your greatness by insulting another group and showing they can not respond to you. (Current Target Available: Rogue Fishers, Inland Foxes)
Meet: Sit down and talk with a group to exchange stories and gifts. (Current Target Available: Rogue Fishers, Inland Foxes)
Migrate: Perhaps, this land is not good for your people. Migrate to a new land. (Current Targets Available: Flint Stone Outcrop)
New Camp: Use tools to construct more permanent shelters so your Foxes can live more comfortably. (Target Location: Mistward Fish Bay, Flint Stone Outcrop)
Raid: Someone has stuff that you want or need. Go take it. (Current Target Available: Rogue Fishers, Inland Foxes)
Refine Story: Discuss the true meaning of a story and how your family should interpret it. (Current Target Available: A Better Way, Together)
Scout: Explore your surroundings to see what you can find.
Tell New Story: Songs can be steered to teach new lessons and ornaments new meanings where they had none before.
Hint: When two values have a opposing aspects, they will start causing events to challenge one or the other until one is dropped.
QM/Note: And this marks this quest being active for a full month! I'm rather happy with that, personally.
Edit: I'm going to be out of town on Friday June 1st to Monday June 4th, so no updates then.
