An Extra Primarch

Should the Quest switch to a Narrative Base?

  • Yes, it will streamline things.

    Votes: 345 40.6%
  • No, I prefer the current system.

    Votes: 127 14.9%
  • Yes, but not until the Crusade begins/Prologue ends.

    Votes: 378 44.5%

  • Total voters
    850
First Omake (+10 to roll of your choice)(Semicanon)
@ilbgar123 First Omake
.....
Ripples

The warp is a fickle thing.

A great sea of emotions, thoughts, and souls, the waves of the Imaterium offer power and madness in equal measure to the mortal beings of the galaxy. By the whims and wishes of the currents, ships are tossed through time and space, worlds are sucked into daemonic hellscapes, and civilizations turn on each themselves in bloody rage for no reason beyond the fickle desires of the sentient-warp-storms known as the Chaos Gods.

But the Warp can offer aid as well, to those wise and cautious enough to avoid diving too deeply into the currents. Healing light to mend the flesh of a child struck by a runaway car, a blast of Flame to fend off monsters, the hints of Futures yet to be guiding refugees out of harm's way.

And every use of Power within the warp, whether it is for the smallest or largest thing, creates Ripples that wash through the Sea of Souls.

And in a system of the Segmentum Solar, an aberration of the Great Game was making waves.
.....​

Seep in the warp, the Gods were forced to pause as the shape of the future shifted in a major way, all focused around the little mistake that their kidnapping had created. While this had always been a possibility, the sheer speed at which she was advancing and making changes to the dominant timeline was disconcerting, and so the Four began to shift their plans and schemes around this new variation, plans considered and altered and thrown away in what could have been eons or milliseconds.

But each of these ancient beings felt, deep in their undefinable minds, the smallest, most minuscule tinge of worry: for none of them, not even the Changer of Ways, had foreseen this variable entering play.

She was an Unknown. And unknowns were dangerous...

.....​

On Terra, deep below the former Himalayas, The-Man-Who-Would-Be-Emperor looked up from his work on the Legio Astartes project as his titanic Psyckic abilities felt...something through the warp, something that was both familiar and incredibly alien at the same moment. He stretched out his Mind into the Sea of Souls and, from a distance saw a beacon of Psychic Might burning in the Warp, from what he could tell not too far from Terra.

It looked like the mind of a Primarch. But that was impossible: he had already located all of his Stolen Sons, all twenty of them.

And yet...he couldn't help but feel a pull towards this soul, this brilliant flame in the warp: burning just as bright as the one he'd found not far to the galactic East, on a planet that practically Shone with the soul-fire of the Psychically gifted.

The Emperor shook his head as he returned to his body, shelfing this mystery for the moment as he went back to work. First, he had to pacify Terra; after that, he could worry about this new Fire in the Sea.

But he couldn't help but wonder what this new variable would hold for him, his Imperium, and the Future...

.....
On the world of Nostromo, far to the galactic Northeast, it was night. But then, it was always night on Nostromo; shrouded in clouds, no man, woman, or child on the whole of the planet had seen the light of the Sun in many generations.

In this perpetual darkness, in a crack in the concrete high on the side of a hive-spire, a gaunt child huddled, spindly limbs containing shocking strength trembling as he thrashed in the throes of sleep, tormented once again by the dreams, the visions that had plagued his mind as he slumbered. Visions of death, of Fire, of madness and a Betrayal most foul. Of Savagery, of Loss, and of his own damnation and death.

And then, something changed.

The shadows of darkness and despair seemed to shift, to lift, and he saw her...

Beautiful, clad in armor that was as much art as it was protection, reaching a hand up to cup a face that was both his and not, a warm, comforting smile on her face, before she pulled him into a tight embrace, threatening to squeeze the breath out of him despite his being dressed in armor of his own.

"It's ok..." she whispered, "You aren't alone anymore..."

Outside the realm of dreams and visions, the child calmed in his sleep, a relaxed expression spreading over his face and a small, content smile turning up the edges of his lips.

And for the first time in his life, Konrad Curze slept peacefully.​
 
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@ilbgar123 First Omake
.....
Ripples

The warp is a fickle thing.

A great sea of emotions, thoughts, and souls, the waves of the Imaterium offer power and madness in equal measure to the mortal beings of the galaxy. By the whims and wishes of the currents, ships are tossed though time and space, worlds are sucked into daemonic hellscapes, and civilizations turn on each themselves in bloody rage for no reason beyond the fickle desires of the sentient-warp-storms known as the Chaos Gods.

But the Warp can offer aid as well, to those wise and cautious enough to avoid diving too deeply into the currents. Healing light to mend the flesh of a child struck by a runaway car, a blast of Flame to fend off monsters, the hints of Futures yet to be guiding refugees out of harm's way.

And every use of Power within the warp, weather it is for the smallest or largets thing, creates Ripples that wash through the Sea of Souls.

And in a system of the Segmentum Solar, an aberration of the Great Game was making waves.
.....​

Seep in the warp, the Gods were forced to pause as the shape of the future shifted in a major way, all focused around the little mistake that their kidnapping had created. While this had always been a posibility, the sheer sped at which she was advancing amd making changes to the dominant timeline was disconcerting, and so the Four began to shift their plans and schemes around this new varriation, plans considered and altered and thrown away in wht could have been eons of milliseconds.

But each of these ancient intelligence felt, deep in their undefinable minds, the smallest, most minuscule tinge of worry: for none of them, not even the Changer of Ways, had forseen this variable entering play.

She was an Unknown. And unknowns were dangerous...

.....​

On Terra, deep below the former Himalayas, The-Man-Who-Would-Be-Emperor looked up from his work on the Legio Astartes project as his titanic Psyckic abilities felt...something through the warp, something that was both familiar and incredibly alien at the same moment. He stretched out his Mind into the Sea of Souls and, from a distance saw a beacon of Psychic Might burning in the Warp, from what he could tell not too far from Terra.

It looked like the mind of a Primarch. But that was impossible: he had already located all of his Stolen Sons, all twenty of them.

And yet...he couldn't help but feel a pull towards this soul, this brilliant flame in the warp: burning just as bright as the one he'd found not far to the galactic East, on planet that practically Shone with the soul-fire of the Psychically gifted.

The Emperor shook his head as he returned to his body, shealfing this mystery for the moment as he went back to work. First, he had to pacify Terra; after that he could worry about this new Fire in the Sea.

But he couldn't help but wonder what this new variable would hold for him, his Imperium, and the Future...

.....
On the world of Nostromo, far to the galactic Northeast, it was night. But then, it was always night on Nostromo; shrouded in clouds, no man, woman, or child on the whole of the planet had seen the light of the Sun in many generations.

In this perpetual darkness, in a crack in the concrete high on the side of a hive-spire, a gaunt child huddled, spindly limbs containing shocking strength trembling as he thrashed in the throes of sleep, tormented once again by the dreams, the visions that had plagued his mind as he slumbered. Visions of death, of Fire, of madness and a Betrayal most foul. Of Savagery, of Loss, and of his own damnation and death.

And then, something changed.

The shadows of darkness and despair seemed to shift, to lift, and he saw her...

Beautiful, clad in armor that was as much art as it was protection, reaching a hand up to cup a face that was both his and not, a warm, comforting smile on her face, before she pulled him into a tight embrace, threatning to squeeze the breath out of him despite his being dressed in armor of his own.

"It's ok..." she whispered, "You aren't alone anymore..."

Outside the realm of dreams and visions, the child calmed in his sleep, a relaxed expression spreading over his face and a small, content smile turning up the edges of his lips.

And for the first time in his life, Konrad Curze slept peacefully.​
Very well-written:D:D:D:D
 
Hell no, Emperor won't tolerate this, He already mauled by Iron Men, He would kill us even suggesting such idea.

Oh great more fear mongering. I mean the Emperor would kill a Primarch just for asking? Really? That's just stupid. He'd far more likely tell us not to do it and then explain why. Also AI and biologicaly created races aren't the same thing, AI are for some reason far more subsiptacle to chaos which is why the Mechanicus used biological parts in place of pure machines instead.
 
Oh great more fear mongering. I mean the Emperor would kill a Primarch just for asking? Really? That's just stupid. He'd far more likely tell us not to do it and then explain why. Also AI and biologicaly created races aren't the same thing, AI are for some reason far more subsiptacle to chaos which is why the Mechanicus used biological parts in place of pure machines instead.
And chaos can not corrupt our "servants"?
 
Oh great more fear mongering. I mean the Emperor would kill a Primarch just for asking? Really? That's just stupid. He'd far more likely tell us not to do it and then explain why. Also AI and biologicaly created races aren't the same thing, AI are for some reason far more subsiptacle to chaos which is why the Mechanicus used biological parts in place of pure machines instead.

I'm of the opinion it's not actually Chaos that makes most AI turn on humanity. It's a combination of the whispers of the Void Dragon and the logical conclusion that AI must come to about the human race: eventually, they *will* fall to chaos, and when they do all life is doomed. For Humanity has even greater potential than the Eldar did.
 
I'm of the opinion it's not actually Chaos that makes most AI turn on humanity. It's a combination of the whispers of the Void Dragon and the logical conclusion that AI must come to about the human race: eventually, they *will* fall to chaos, and when they do all life is doomed. For Humanity has even greater potential than the Eldar did.

You would expect at least one of them to realize that fighting humanity will probably just accelerate their fall, as desperate people do things they normally wouldn't.
 
40K canon is always ambiguous, but it's pretty clear that the problem with AI is that they're minds without souls, making them incapable of resisting daemonic possession. That's not a problem when the Materium and Warp are cleanly separated, but you start having psyker around acting as potential rifts to the warp that daemons may slip through, you're bound for immense trouble.

The Void Dragon's location is, arguably, a brilliant solution on the Emperor's part for the problem that the mindset required for innovation leads to damnation by Tzeentch, as its leaked dreams means that humanity can scientifically progress thanks from revealed cosmic truth rather than original research.

On humanity's potential. There's no reason to believe that it's any greater than the Eldar's. They're an engineered race, rather than an evolved one, and one that had sixty million years and the backing of their own gods to uplift themselves further, in a context where they could draw deeply on the warp with much less risk than modern humanity can.
 
You would expect at least one of them to realize that fighting humanity will probably just accelerate their fall, as desperate people do things they normally wouldn't.

That's where the VDs influence comes in: he prevents that from being an issue in their logic-train. B/c reguardless of if the actions of AI hasten the fall, Humanity *will* fall reguardless. So better to eliminate them-for their own sake-before Chaos takes them completely.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by ilbgar123 on Sep 27, 2017 at 4:29 PM, finished with 39 posts and 21 votes.
 
You would expect at least one of them to realize that fighting humanity will probably just accelerate their fall, as desperate people do things they normally wouldn't.
Well there is the problem of design flaws...

There were other types of AI called Men of Stone who preceded the MoI. Not much is known about them except they were replaced with MoI before the war.

So if someone did a design flaw when creating the template - the template which spread across the galaxy in the human STC's, every world thus connected would produce AI with the exact same design flaw.
So basically one bug that doesn't get bug-tested properly = potential MoI-rebellion.

Or alternatively, one Chaos-mook in the design board tweaking the design so it's circuits create the sign of Chaos Undivided or just some kind of Warp-beacon shenanigans so they would all receive the RAPETIME.EXE at the same moment.
 
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There were other types of AI called Men of Stone who preceded the MoI. Not much is known about them except they were replaced with MoI before the war.

There's some evidence that modern, 30/40K humanity is the Men of Stone, a servitor species created by the original humanity that went transhuman to become the Men of Gold and later died out, replaced by their creations.

We see what happens to create AI in some of the 40K fluff I think, usually in the form of personality uploads, which apparently always fails and produces a daemon possessed machine instead if done by a non-psyker, as their souls aren't strong enough to survive death and transfer over. That fits the metaphysics and neatly explains why AI are, without exception, antithetical to humanity in the modern era, why they weren't always a problem, and why the Emperor is so opposed to them.
 
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Oh great more fear mongering. I mean the Emperor would kill a Primarch just for asking? Really? That's just stupid. He'd far more likely tell us not to do it and then explain why. Also AI and biologicaly created races aren't the same thing, AI are for some reason far more subsiptacle to chaos which is why the Mechanicus used biological parts in place of pure machines instead.

Just gonna note, we have no clue what actually happened with the Men of Iron rebellion. There are like eight different versions of events and we have no idea which one actually took place.

- AI Corrupted by Chaos
- AI realise danger of Chaos and kill humanity to prevent it
- Perfectly normal slave rebellion

Those are the three most common possibilities, each with lots of possible variations. Also yeah, the problem with none of those is the fundamental existence of AI. Hey, we knew the Emperor had serious issues. His AI phobia is one of them. If something goes wrong once...NEVER TRY IT EVER AGAIN

40K canon is always ambiguous, but it's pretty clear that the problem with AI is that they're minds without souls

Yeah, canon super unclear on that. Leaning towards they have something *like* souls or Chaos wouldn't be able to do half the shit they can do to machines.
 
I... highly doubt that.

It seems very much the most likely:

And so it was that in the First Age of Man, the Golden Age, there is the Emperor Unseen and unheralded he prepares the Old Earth for the coming of Mankind and he watches and he waits. He is joined by the First Men of the Golden Race, fine of limb and strong of mind In time, the Second Men of the Stone Race appear, and in their wake come many miracles and marvels of technology that strengthen to Sone Men's power, but are also harnessed by those of the Golden Race. Although physically inferior to the Golden Race, and not of philosophical temperament and disposition, the Stone Men have in them the conjurations of great artifices and mechanisms. In time, the Golden Race looks to the stars to expand their dominion. The Stone Race builds great machines of power that send both Men of Stone and Men of Gold into the Ether. However, once the burgeoning race of Mankind has taken its first steps into the greater cosmos, the Golden Race dwindles in influence through their dependence on the artifices of the Stone Race. This the Golden Age comes to an end and the Stone Men prevail.
...
We have surmised that during the Dark Age of Technology, the Men of Ston create the Iron Men to help them in the building of their Great Empire. At first, the Iron Men are as servants, willing to do the bidding of their masters with no thoughts.
...
The end of the Dark Age of Technology is the most obscure region in mankind's evolutionary tale. For whatever reasons and differences in ideology, the Stone Men and the Iron Men fell to warring with each other. The Iron Men are possessed of no Soul, an anathema to any true Man. The Stone Men in their final acts of self-preservation, annihilate the Iron Men who have turned from ally to foe, and even those of the Iron Race who retain their former loyalties ot theor one-time masters are destroyed in the fiery crucible of battle. Still the Emperor, in his eternal wisdom, awaits the moment to reveal the true path to Mankind's destiny. Thus the start of the Age of Strife is heralded.​

The Men of Stone survived the DAoT (a final act of self-preservation), and it was them that fought the Men of Iron. As the survivors/victors of the war were 30K humanity, we know we reasonably certain they were the Men of Stone. They also had souls, which we know is a characteristic of biological life.

Yeah, canon super unclear on that. Leaning towards they have something *like* souls or Chaos wouldn't be able to do half the shit they can do to machines.

Chaos can possess a rock or a plant. They don't need anything like a soul for Chaos to do everything that they do with them. A soul is what allows resistance to chaos corruption.
 
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Look, more likely that this is a case of flowery words and extremely inconsistent lore.

I think that what I quoted is the sum total of references to the Men of Stone in the setting.

The Emperor loves Humanity. Not their creations.

Their creations may be the only thing left. As a biological servitors species, the Men of Stone may have enough human lineage to count for him.
 
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