Travler66
Let her name echo in song!
- Location
- Beyond
@ilbgar123 With your permission, I would like to imagine and design the Rangdan ground units and ships so you don't have to. I can PM the designs to you so that nobody is spoiled.
An Extra Primarch
- Thread starter ilbgar123
- Start date
- Location
- Here & There
PM would be best for everyone. Side note I would be delighted to see what you'd think up to ensure that the Rangdan remain dangerous. Especially from someone who's been on both sides of these kinds of quest.
Well there was a few weeks ago a thread on tg that discussed about the Rangdan :
Rangda - Wikipedia
sup/tg/ - /tg/ Archive
Is exploring the new Doctrines a Major or Minor action? Because, if possible, I'd kind of like to see Heavy Industrial Parks put together en-masse. It really sounds like something that would massively increase our overall fleet construction speed, and with war with the almost-Krorks coming up fast and the sectors-wide Waaaagh looming beyond that...
In fact, since the entire point of the Parks is to construct massive projects, I'd suggest creating just one Park, then using that one to create another, in much the same way you can 3D print a 3D printer. We could probably replace most of our shipyards like that, although it's probably be a good idea to keep some classic shipyards around for detail and/or specialty work.
Also, would a number of HIPs have a notable effect on creating more Bellows projects? Again, a unit specially designed to mass produce and assemble large structures sounds perfect for creating whole chunks of the Bellows, that you then move into position and assemble on-site. Then those Bellows can provide for more Heavy Industrial Parks...
We can be the Von Neuman engine.
... actually, given HIPs, Bellows, and a bit of time to ramp up production, skilled crew might become the major bottleneck.
In fact, since the entire point of the Parks is to construct massive projects, I'd suggest creating just one Park, then using that one to create another, in much the same way you can 3D print a 3D printer. We could probably replace most of our shipyards like that, although it's probably be a good idea to keep some classic shipyards around for detail and/or specialty work.
Also, would a number of HIPs have a notable effect on creating more Bellows projects? Again, a unit specially designed to mass produce and assemble large structures sounds perfect for creating whole chunks of the Bellows, that you then move into position and assemble on-site. Then those Bellows can provide for more Heavy Industrial Parks...
We can be the Von Neuman engine.
... actually, given HIPs, Bellows, and a bit of time to ramp up production, skilled crew might become the major bottleneck.
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- Location
- Florida
Primaris Marines were already what the Emperor originally intended the Astartes to be. The only reason we got canon Space Marines was because the Emperor didn't have the time to finish developing them into Primaris, after he lost the Primarchs and needed to accelerate the 'conquering the galaxy' plan.
Tldr; The Emperor was too busy to make/develop them properly and settled on 'Good Enough'.
S.H.I.P[Stellar Heavy Industrial Park](Canon)(Under Consideration)(+10 to roll of your choice)
- An exert from research station 28959, audio log B284A78F -
(A call is placed to the station head from one of the engineering research cells.)
"Sir. Okay, listen. One of the guys in my department came up with this one, and I think you should be the first to hear it. It's got a lot of work to go before we're ready to present it to the board, but I think we've got gold here."
(The speaker is female. Early forties, approximated. Paper shuffling can be heard in the background)
"It's not really a new project itself, so much as it's an amalgamation of things we think will work amazingly well together and feed off of each other.
"You know the Stellar Bellows project? I guess you would, the first one starting up is all anyone around here has been talking about. Okay, well, do you know what a Dyson Sphere is?"
(an amused snort is heard)
"I don't know who Dyson was. The only record we have on the name that far back is about a vacuum and fan manufacturer. Anyway, a Dyson Sphere is the idea of completely enclosing a star with energy collection units, mostly solar cells, to capture the total energy output of the star.
"No, I get that. that kind of job would be orders of magnitude beyond where we are right now, even with the Bellows entire output going just into that. But the thing is, we don't need to completely enclose the star to get gains out of it. If we expanded the surface area of the Bellows themselves, like a long strip along the edges of it going all the way around, that's an enormous energy producer right there."
(nervous drumming on the desk sounds out)
"Cost? Ah, it'd probably double the overall resource input and construction time. Wait nonononono! Don't hang up!"
(a panicked thump of the supervisor's palm hitting the desk)
"There's a good reason, I swear. You hear about the New World Economy Doctrine? Well, neither did I, actually. Not part of our department. But this guy, Jack, he pointed out the entire new doctrine revolves around these new Heavy Industrial Parks. A combination of Replicators and robotics to just wholesale construct huge patterns that would normally take a dedicated shipyard.
"Jack, he pointed out that all the parts behind the Parks were already in service. Our shipyards already use some robotics, and we already use Replicators to get all the parts we need. The Parks just kind of put them together in the same space, cut out the middle man.
"But there's another middle man to cut out here. You following me?"
(the finger drumming returns, more intense. An excited, almost frenzied staccato plays out)
"We still need to take the stuff from the Bellows all the way over to the Industrial Parks to use them. If we use them, I mean, since they're kind of still in the experimental phase right now. But. But but but. It's a solid design. It could just be better.
"Something like a third of the Parks are just dedicated to power production. Those Replicators are a hog, man. But if you could take out that mass, like say if it was plugged in to a fraction of a Dyson Sphere, that'd save a lot of space. Reduce the setup cost of each park... or, offload it into the cost of the Dyson thing, anyway. The sun's right there, you know? Might as well make use of it.
"So... ah."
(The drumming stops, and the supervisor huffs out a breath)
"That's it, I guess. Stick the HIPs directly onto the Stellar Bellows, and power the whole thing with a Dyson... strip. The whole updated project would probably run double... two point five times? The original Bellows cost.
"I haven't run the numbers here yet, but I think it would be worth it. Startup costs would be ridiculous, but this thing... we could just about make shipyards themselves obsolete. Not quite, I guess, since the notes on the new HIPs point out they're only good for bulk work, but close.
"Just... think about it. A series of mostly-automated ship berths, powered and supplied directly from a star. Almost unlimited production capacity, right at our fingertips.
"A name? Dunno, Jack didn't give me one. Still too early, and it's basically just a derivative of other people's work anyway. Just... combine the names, I guess? A... Stellar Industrial Park. Working name only."
(a pause)
"Right... right. Not sure if the brass will go for it, cost/benefit calculations, more work needed before you can commit to even presenting it. Bureaucracy, Politics, more Bureaucracy. Same old, same old. I get it."
"We'll dedicate a few hours to putting together something usable. Get in contact with the original HIP designers, get their input on it."
(A small object, probably a pen, in placed hard on the desk)
"Yes sir."
- Log ends -
AN: Given the point behind each Park was specialization, that would cause this project to dedicate an entire Stellar Bellows into ship building, just on a massive scale. But we might not need that many ships - or at least, not that many all coming form one location. To offset that, I'd suggest that each Stellar Industrial Park actually have a large variability in the size and specializations of its parks. Something like six major Parks for the flagship sizes, then several smaller ones between them studded along the ring, then maybe scale it down again to titan sizes, forged and constructed directly on the station.
Anything smaller than that and you probably lose the benefits of specialization anyway, so the Bellows will still output raw material just like an unmodified station. Assuming there's any material left over during peak assembly, anyway.
(A call is placed to the station head from one of the engineering research cells.)
"Sir. Okay, listen. One of the guys in my department came up with this one, and I think you should be the first to hear it. It's got a lot of work to go before we're ready to present it to the board, but I think we've got gold here."
(The speaker is female. Early forties, approximated. Paper shuffling can be heard in the background)
"It's not really a new project itself, so much as it's an amalgamation of things we think will work amazingly well together and feed off of each other.
"You know the Stellar Bellows project? I guess you would, the first one starting up is all anyone around here has been talking about. Okay, well, do you know what a Dyson Sphere is?"
(an amused snort is heard)
"I don't know who Dyson was. The only record we have on the name that far back is about a vacuum and fan manufacturer. Anyway, a Dyson Sphere is the idea of completely enclosing a star with energy collection units, mostly solar cells, to capture the total energy output of the star.
"No, I get that. that kind of job would be orders of magnitude beyond where we are right now, even with the Bellows entire output going just into that. But the thing is, we don't need to completely enclose the star to get gains out of it. If we expanded the surface area of the Bellows themselves, like a long strip along the edges of it going all the way around, that's an enormous energy producer right there."
(nervous drumming on the desk sounds out)
"Cost? Ah, it'd probably double the overall resource input and construction time. Wait nonononono! Don't hang up!"
(a panicked thump of the supervisor's palm hitting the desk)
"There's a good reason, I swear. You hear about the New World Economy Doctrine? Well, neither did I, actually. Not part of our department. But this guy, Jack, he pointed out the entire new doctrine revolves around these new Heavy Industrial Parks. A combination of Replicators and robotics to just wholesale construct huge patterns that would normally take a dedicated shipyard.
"Jack, he pointed out that all the parts behind the Parks were already in service. Our shipyards already use some robotics, and we already use Replicators to get all the parts we need. The Parks just kind of put them together in the same space, cut out the middle man.
"But there's another middle man to cut out here. You following me?"
(the finger drumming returns, more intense. An excited, almost frenzied staccato plays out)
"We still need to take the stuff from the Bellows all the way over to the Industrial Parks to use them. If we use them, I mean, since they're kind of still in the experimental phase right now. But. But but but. It's a solid design. It could just be better.
"Something like a third of the Parks are just dedicated to power production. Those Replicators are a hog, man. But if you could take out that mass, like say if it was plugged in to a fraction of a Dyson Sphere, that'd save a lot of space. Reduce the setup cost of each park... or, offload it into the cost of the Dyson thing, anyway. The sun's right there, you know? Might as well make use of it.
"So... ah."
(The drumming stops, and the supervisor huffs out a breath)
"That's it, I guess. Stick the HIPs directly onto the Stellar Bellows, and power the whole thing with a Dyson... strip. The whole updated project would probably run double... two point five times? The original Bellows cost.
"I haven't run the numbers here yet, but I think it would be worth it. Startup costs would be ridiculous, but this thing... we could just about make shipyards themselves obsolete. Not quite, I guess, since the notes on the new HIPs point out they're only good for bulk work, but close.
"Just... think about it. A series of mostly-automated ship berths, powered and supplied directly from a star. Almost unlimited production capacity, right at our fingertips.
"A name? Dunno, Jack didn't give me one. Still too early, and it's basically just a derivative of other people's work anyway. Just... combine the names, I guess? A... Stellar Industrial Park. Working name only."
(a pause)
"Right... right. Not sure if the brass will go for it, cost/benefit calculations, more work needed before you can commit to even presenting it. Bureaucracy, Politics, more Bureaucracy. Same old, same old. I get it."
"We'll dedicate a few hours to putting together something usable. Get in contact with the original HIP designers, get their input on it."
(A small object, probably a pen, in placed hard on the desk)
"Yes sir."
- Log ends -
AN: Given the point behind each Park was specialization, that would cause this project to dedicate an entire Stellar Bellows into ship building, just on a massive scale. But we might not need that many ships - or at least, not that many all coming form one location. To offset that, I'd suggest that each Stellar Industrial Park actually have a large variability in the size and specializations of its parks. Something like six major Parks for the flagship sizes, then several smaller ones between them studded along the ring, then maybe scale it down again to titan sizes, forged and constructed directly on the station.
Anything smaller than that and you probably lose the benefits of specialization anyway, so the Bellows will still output raw material just like an unmodified station. Assuming there's any material left over during peak assembly, anyway.
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- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Well, I do have a plan, but feel free to PM me about your idea, provided what I reveal remains between us until the Rangdan actually show up.
- Location
- UK
@ilbgar123 Just echoing a suggestion I saw on Embers in the Dusk, would we potentially be able to scry for the location of artefacts/STCs like the Omnicopaeia, Panacea, and so on?
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Yes, though the threshold is higher with them since a) most of them don't have nearly the same Warp presence (save the Omnicopea and STC Constructor thanks to the sheer amount of belief energy devoted to them) as a Primarch, b) she has a sympathetic link to the Primarchs due to essentially being the minor god of Primarchs that knocks down the difficulty of finding them (which could be useful later), and c) her fate sense isn't nearly fine-tuned enough to see far-off threats/opportunities like 'Could grab a game-changing STC-thing in 56 years if you do this exact sequence of events.' even before the Chaos debuff. Especially since their echoes of fate are significantly weaker than the Primarchs, who are essentially guaranteed to make major waves in the galaxy if only by proxy, while there are numerous timeline where many STCs aren't found any time soon, if at all.
I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just unlikely to be worth the AP any time soon without a major Psyker buff to, at minimum, counter the Chaos debuff. Getting up to Exotic is going to be the minimum for it being an efficient use of your time as opposed to trying your luck through normal expansion.
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Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
...A single stellar bellows IRL would be able to support the entire population of the Imperium in one solar system but in the quest even if we had 100,000 of them we wouldn't be able to support 1,000,000 planets?
First, off nice omake I like it but the thing is we don't actually need or even want a Dyson Sphere since we already have infinite energy through the use of energy runes which are in fact more energy efficient than Dyson Spheres per unit volume. Although your idea still has merit since the one thing that is applicable in your omake is how we have to transport the materials we gain from the stellar bellows to the replicators which than use energy to re-arrange the mass into something else but following your idea we can just build our shipyards connected to the steller bellows/on top of a Dyson Sphere superstructure and since we're already building the superstructure we can just carve energy runes into it for extra power which all put together should lower production costs and times.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Uh, no. If you increased the current resource consumption by ^10 then a million Stellar Bellows would support very few planets. A single Stellar Bellows, with even an incomplete techbase supports about 1.5 million planets, though that's without shipyards or fleets. Though dropping that to 149K due to Consumption isn't exactly insurmountable, since it's likely that each Primarch Homeworld (and also Terra) will have one in their sector, probably right there, which knocks the limit back up to nearly 3.3 million. More than enough for the canonical Imperium and massive fleets.
Second, yeah, having the shipyards within Mercury's relative distance from the sun would probably work just fine.
The Froggy Ninja
The Blade Will Never Die
Since a lot of the chaos interference is feeding us false data, would Truth crystals or runes work against that?
ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's true data, just unlikely and unhelpful data. A full on precognition room lined with truth, focus, and probability crystals might be helpful, though.
- Location
- Ohio
Could the chaos forces send the truths we are not looking for?
Ninja'd by ExNihilo.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
What ExNihilo said. They aren't feeding you lies. All the timelines you're being fed are possible, just extremely unlikely most of the time. Serras remaining Divination is mostly a byproduct of piecing common threads together to frankenstein a likely timeline, which rapidly degrades in accuracy, hence the 10% effectiveness, and is very time-consuming for anyone who doesn't have a 4-digit IQ.
By the way, should I change my avatar back or keep the new one? Thoughts?
By the way, should I change my avatar back or keep the new one? Thoughts?
New one looks gorgeous but the old one had a brand you know.
Travler66
Let her name echo in song!
- Location
- Beyond
I think you should keep the new one. It looks cool imo.
No, if it was that easy, then there wouldn't be a full third of the Heavy Industrial Park's mass going toward power generation. The power runes offset that, but you still need reactors.
Well, as pointed out in the Omake, take out that power allocation and you suddenly have a much smaller Park - which you can then use to pack them in tighter on a Bellows ring. And for the Sphere, you don't actually need a whole sphere. More like a Dyson Strip - a name which I actually coined inside the Omake, though it was only used once - just a long strip of collectors running along the edges of the Stellar Bellows.
EDIT-
No worse than a HIP-based shipyard with a Stellar Bellows on the local star. At that point, you're just making the construction process more efficient for no notable tactical loss.
And for moving the ships into position: really? You have the same situation with a regular shipyard anyway. The ship needs to leave the yard before it can be used: news at eleven.
Presumably you can also use the HIPs as repair docks, which means your repair docks suddenly have zero supply line issues. Ships can be in and out in a fraction the time of normal shipyards, though they might want to go to the yards anyway for detailing work again.
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- Location
- Ohio
Ilbgar said we needed a divine level skill. Maybe it was Navigation or another one?
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Divination still works, it's just had it's efficiency tanked. There's two ways around that remove the problem (Destroying Chaos isn't happening any time soon, so that leaves joining up.) or get good enough that it's not an actual problem. Getting Navigator up to Divine would be enough that your base skill could override the debuff.
- Location
- U.S.
hey ilbgar how much does stat increases per AP again?
for normal, +, and tagged skills
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
15, 20, 20 if normal, 25 if Tagged and +.