We cannot kill Bonesaw, for reasons beyond the fail-deadly plague triggers. She likely knows where Missy is.
Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 18: Ravaging Rapscallions Rapidly Regret Regular Rampages
- Thread starter Gromweld
- Start date
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
Changed it to capture or neutralize.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Also can't kill Bakuda, again because of fail-deadly Tinkertech, explosives in this case obviously.
That's why I was asking about how fast Narwhal can form her forcefields. He might not see Kid Win's jamming device coming, because it is an "attack" on Tatsu, not him (not sure how exactly his power would work with attacks not actually directly effecting him, or tinkertech devices since the power was used a while ago, during construction), and if he does see Narwhal's force field attack coming, it doesn't matter if he can't react to it in time.
We probably don't want to knock out the twins. Knocking them out puts them (and their wearer) back in the pocket dimension. That may help as a very short reprieve vs their wearer in that fight, but better to just kill the wearer (if Jack) or pray the wearer can be knocked out (if Bonesaw).
Except for the "and/or capture" on Jack. Jack is still dangerous when in a Grey Boy loop. He needs to be killed.
I would also put "Kill, capture and/or neutralize any member of the Slaughterhouse Nine" above "Minimize casualties", because ultimately killing them does minimize casualties, no matter how many people they kill in Philly.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
Sounds about right, although Jack just needs to die.
Second order of business, I think, is to discuss counters, combos, and plan around the roving Hatchet Face.
Gully soft counters Bakuda, as her earthbending can trip motion/pressure sensitive bombs and she can wall off the more exotic explosions with some degree of success depending on the exact nature of the bomb in question. Also provides a small counter to Bonesaw as she can wall off areas to create quarantine zones.
Gust can smother fires and redirect airborne diseases with weather control.
Willow is a fragile OHKO, although she might not work against Bonesaw because Fucking Tinkers.
Slate counters Philharmonic's vibrations. Also counters Shatterbird's scream.
Kid Win + Wyld Hunt + Willow = Bonesaw trap. Risky, as Bonesaw teleporting out with Wyld is a failure state for us. Buy Ally dots for insurance.
Hatchet Face's MO is to go after brutes, so Dozer is the most likely target, followed by Marrow, followed by Gully (who's just big IIR).
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Also Shatterbird's vibrations. Depending on how thoroughly that works, he may well just be able to walk up to her in his cloud and gank her.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
Do you know if that counters everything, or just the scream?
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, isn't her silicate control mostly/entirely sonic in nature? Or am I remembering that wrong?
If it's all sonic, then she shouldn't be able to do anything enveloped in his darkness.
I think we should leave Legend unassigned. He is fast enough to be wherever he or Weaver wants him to be within seconds and he has tons of experience. He is capable of picking of Hatchetface the moment he comes within sight and he can kill any unforseen zombiehorde pretty much instantly. Leaving him unassigned allows him to be wherever there is a problem, while he can still kill Manton as soon as we have his location. In addition the only way he can be killed is if the enemy catches him unaware, so having him at a set location only gives the Nine a chance to surprise bomb him.
- Location
- Underground
You still don't have anything for handling Jack/Tatsu.
Gust could probably do well against Shatterbird. Narwhal too.
Save Kid Win for Jack/Tatsu.
We should have at least one way to capture/disable for Bonesaw and Bakuda, and a way to disable teleporters for Jack and Bonesaw.
Kid Win's device is the best way to make sure Jack can't just teleport out of there with Tatsu. With Jack's prediction hax, we'll need the extra advantage of tinker-tech, because the other options of capture/disabling Tatsu (Willow, Clockblocker) wouldn't work nearly as well in getting close to Jack. Put the device in the hands of a mundane human if we must.
Undecided on whether to have Willow handle Bonesaw and Clockblocker capturing Bakuda or vice versa. Though I'm leaning toward the latter considering Clockblocker's time-stop doesn't give a shit about any modifications Bonesaw has done to herself or Uzu.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
You misunderstand. I'm taking a step back and considering who counters whom so that we can better decide how to allocate our forces.
What do we have in the way of (actual, not cape) artillery? One airburst shell above him, no more Jack or troublingly-compromised twin.
This is important to remember. Knocking out the twins automatically puts them back in their pocket dimension. So don't do that, because they'll take their wearers with them, and given that their wearers are likely Jack and Bonesaw, then that would be BAD.
Alexandria should not be in the Crawler/Siberian fight. She's only good for delaying Crawler and useless against Siberian as if she goes looking for Manton, he can see her coming in time and recreate Siberian right infront of her. Likewise, she probably shouldn't be in any fights with the twins as she'll most likely kill them.
The key for Siberian is finding Manton and killing him before he can react, or killing him by surprise so he can't recreate the Siberian touching his van. Who would be a good choice here after the drones are destroyed, but for finding him, I would use Legend with Thinker support as he knows that the Siberian is a projection, he's the best mover we have so he can search quickly, and he's powerful enough to kill in one blast. The thinker support would be to help him find Manton ASAP, which Weaver can help with as well while fighting.
Crawler is ultimately a delaying issue. We need to capture Hatchetface first, or come up with a different solution. Just hammering him is not going to work.
Jack and Shatterbird are tricky because they have bombs with them, so I'm still thinking over what to do here... Narwhal might be a good idea and someone powerful and mobile enough to reach and squish Shatterbird would be good. Feral perhaps? Gust?
Bonesaw needs Wyld to counter her diseases. Weld would also be a good idea, as he's just metal and as a bonus would not be fazed too much by Burnscar or Philharmonic. I think that Kid Win should go here, in order to stop Bonesaw from getting away. Gust might be a good idea to redirect airbourne diseases.
Burnscar is a bit tricky, as she's very mobile but also pretty powerful. Slate would probably be the best counter here, as he both smothers energy to help put out fires and block Philharmonic and blocks line of sight to blind Burnscar to help minimise her mobility. Willow might also work if Wyld is there dealing with Bonesaw, as Wyld can grow a lot of plants all over the place for her to use to match Burnscar's mobility.
Mannequin and Bakuda are serious trouble, in that they have double the tinker bullshit, Mannequin is very mobile and sneaky and Bakuda needs to live due to deadman switches. Combine Bakuda bombs with the telekinesis of Philanthropic and that's bad news. We need to disable Bakuda quickly, and the best idea that comes to mind is Willow as she can pop out of a plant right next to her and put her to sleep. Gust could move the bombs to counter Philanthropic as well. Clockblocker might be alright to both make shelters from bombs and disable whoever he gets a hand on, but the problem lies in getting him in range...
Mannequin can wait, for now. Make sure to keep a close eye on any prisoners, in order to stop him from sneaking in and then busting them out or setting off any deadman switches inside Bakuda.
The hospital needs people who can deal with crowds of zombies and can neutralise or minimize bombs. Bulldozer, Miss Militia and Gully come to mind here, as does Narwhal. The problem lies in, can they be used elsewhere to better effect?
The PRT Officers should be used either at the hospital to help deal with the crowds using foam, or to try and take a lucky shot at Jack (but I honestly doubt that would happen as he's too careful).
Remember, Weaver does not know that Jack can counter parahumans but not normal humans! That is metaknowledge!
Ridtom
Good. Bad. I'm the man with the Wand.
Wait, Legend doesn't know about Manton right? I mean, he knows about Siberian being a projection from Weaver, but he doesn't actually know it's Manton?
Ugh, Alexandria does, but she doesn't know we know that Siberian is a projection.... or does she?
@Gromweld did Legend inform Alexandria about Siberian's nature?
Ugh, Alexandria does, but she doesn't know we know that Siberian is a projection.... or does she?
@Gromweld did Legend inform Alexandria about Siberian's nature?
sainen
Elder Lich
Even if it is metaknowledge Jack is one of the few targets that a PRT squad with automatics has a chance against.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
To go more indepth in my reply
Shard-less mortals and Alchemicals counter Jack Slash. We don't know about his vulnerability to the former, and the latter are tied up with the Siberian and Crawler.
Gust is ideally suited for preventing the Bonesaw + Burnscar combo from spiraling out of control, and I'm not sure he has the proper mindset to go up against someone as ruthless as Shatterbird. He doesn't counter her, that's for sure.
Kid Win must go with the Bonesaw team as she is significantly more dangerous than Jack and cannot be allowed to escape, particularly if we're sending in the Wyld + Willow trap. Bonesaw cannot be allowed to capture Wyld
Clockblocker's power is, effectively, a delayer. It takes someone out of commission while you look for the proper counter. You also cannot predict when they'll unfreeze, which makes things even more complicated.
It doesn't matter if he knows the projector is Manton, only that there IS a projector that makes the Siberian. Maybe we should have Lisa help him find the projector with a tinkertech visor or something? A camera that Legend wears that she can see through? Putting her on the throne is sounding like a good idea, as it can both fly and has a shield.
True, but he also has Shatterbird with him and they don't stand much of a chance against her. They'll be mulched.
True, but he also has Shatterbird with him and they don't stand much of a chance against her. They'll be mulched.
Agreed. People also tend to forget that Legend has incredibly good eyesight. If there's a line of sight to Manton through any little hole in his van, Legend can see him. If Legend can see him, Legend can kill him.
Gust might be a strong enough Blaster to throw him into orbit. If he can get Crawler into even a very low, unstable orbit, Legend can give him enough thrust via laser ablation to escape Earth's gravity well. At that point, he's welcome to go be immortal and unharmable somewhere else.
On the one hand, you're absolutely right. On the other hand, a certain degree of metaknowledge use is reasonable when playing people much, much better at something than we are. Much as SB/SVers like to pretend, none of us have War 5.
Edit:
She's significantly more dangerous in the short term. It's not Bonesaw who's going to end the world a decade early, after all.
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sainen
Elder Lich
I'd love to see Bonesaw's face when the Tele-hug doesn't teleport and she's in the arms of a Striker 8 that controls biology.
obviously you wouldn't send them in without Cape support like Narwhal.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
If you remove all the dangerous people from Jack's control he becomes significantly easier to deal with.
Hmm.
We could just send Weld against him and Shatterbird. Weld is immune to both, and while he's unlikely to kill Jack or Shatterbird they can't kill him either.
Tying up JS and SB means that we can concentrate our forces elsewhere, which is a pretty significant boost.
Ridtom
Good. Bad. I'm the man with the Wand.
I think Alexandria would be a good counter against Bonesaw if it weren't for the fact she'd mercy kill the Twins.
Maybe have her take care of Burnscar or Mannequin? Or even the Hospital?
Weld and Narwhal would be effective against Jack and Shatterbird definitely.
Maybe have her take care of Burnscar or Mannequin? Or even the Hospital?
Weld and Narwhal would be effective against Jack and Shatterbird definitely.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
Thinking more on this, Weld and Miss Militia would be sufficient to hold vs Jack Slash, the addition of MM gives us a good chance of killing Shatterbird because MM has the option to bring out more gun. She'll also be useful for coordinating with the two gangs as she has a good reputation. Weld's job here is to tank for her and be too annoying for Jack to ignore.