Aircraft Design Company- Matsura's Planes Are Always Fastest!

open_sketch · Jul 12, 2018

Stress
0

Office Stress
0

XP
5

Matsura Asuka
Head Designer for Ohara Airworks
Age 24 (Legally 25)
Year 12 AF (After Flight)

Design Stats
Aerodynamics Engineering - +2
Structural Engineering - +2
Chemical Engineering - +1
Mechanical Engineering - +1
Ballistics Engineering - +1
Electrical Engineering - 0

Personal/Political Stats
Social Skills - 0
Politics Skills - 0
Importance - 2
Income - 1
Investments - Ohara

Resources
Power - 0
Wealth - 2

Designs
Type 1 Series - Military Variation (Designated T1M1)
Type 2 Racer (World Speed Record October 1910-April 1911, 180kph)
Model 2 Scout (Designated T1M2)
Navy Scout Prototype (Drowned Rat)
Dive Bomber B1M1 "Duck"
Machine Gun Carrier R1A "Dragonfly" (World Speed Record May-July 1911, 200kph)
~~Naval Rescue~~ Water-Landing Supply Plane NR1M0 "Dolphin" (World speed record 240kph)
~~Rhino~~ Demon Train Hunter
The world's first airliner
The world's first pulsejet airplane

Assets
Slide Rule
Computator (1 Reroll per Routine)

Languages
Albian
Gallian

Familiar Vices
Drinking
~~Prostitutes~~
Dancing

Family Life
- Engaged to Arita Yachi, formerly the leading Ace in the Imperial Army. Designated #1 Cutest ~~Army~~ Boy, he's having some serious problems with PTSD right now.
- Taking a second try at dating Mikami Kiho, ex-dockerwork from the south.

Upgrades
- 3 XP to upgrade a stat.

Ohara Airworks
Start Up, Imperial Capital, Akitsukuni

Owner
- Mr. Ohara, Rich. Aircraft Enthusiast. Business guy.

Engineers

Kibe Koume, 26, Office Manager
Tiny & angry, Kibe went to school in Albia, picking up the language, the religion, and a fuckload of swear words. Speaks Albian.
Mechanical +2, Ballistics +1
Office Manager: If Kibe is not assigned to a team, the Office Stress is reduced by 1.

Sakane Jun, 26, Second Team Leader
A soured patriot, Sakane is married and has a young child being raised gender-neutrally. His two brothers who fought in the war.
Structural +2, Aerodynamics +1
Team Leader: If there are any additional projects, Sakane will lead them.
Joinery: Sakane has training in the traditional Akitsukuni carpentry art of joinery, creating complex self-supporting joints with no fasteners or glue. When working with non-monocoque wooden spars or ribs, +1 Structural.

Tezuka Kenji, ???
A stoner with occasional flashes of insight. Nobody really knows what he does, but he's probably useful?
Aerodynamics +2, Chemical +1
Flashes of Brilliance: Each natural 10 rolled by any team Tezuka is assigned to gives +1 forward to the next research roll.

Hasegawa Morio, 26
A hopeless nerd with a photography habit, mostly on account of developing his own film, Hasegawa seems to do nothing but work and stack card houses, but somehow has an incredible attractive boyfriend. Speaks Gallian.
Chemical +2, Ballistic +1
Silent Workhorse: Hasegawa can work on two different projects at once for no cost to Office Stress, providing they use different stats.

Kawamura Yosai, 25.
Serially successful womanizer and incredibly attractive, Kawamura doesn't seem to have much of a personality outside of seducing women. Well, except for that time he seduced Asuka, which nobody talks about. Speaks Dyske.
Structural +2, Electrical +1, Social +1
Easily Distracted: If Kawamura is working on the same team as a female or non-binary employee, the team is at -1d10.

Koide Hatsu, 24.
One of the few female graduates of an Akitsukuni engineering school, Koide is brilliant and incredibly driven, but her first job at Akibara was both humiliating and exposed her to an abusive coworker. Her father is a rich businessman with factories in Joseon, and she's engaged to Ken from Castles of Steel. Speaks Joseon.
Mechanical +2, Structural +1
No Sleep: If you let her, Koide will work herself to death. She can work a second project for no Office Stress, but all her stats will be reduced to 1 for the routine.

Kobayashi Ayao, ???
Disowned heiress of the Kobayashi family, all Kobayashi wanted was a career and to be a modern woman. For her trouble, a cousin threw acid on her, scarring her face, neck, much of her torso, and her left arm. Despite appearing serene and above it all, she's actually an avowed communist activist and baseball player.
Aerodynamics +2, Social +2

Adachi Ren, 24
Adachi learned chemistry from her father, one of the most famous chemical engineers in the country, rather than through formal schooling. She's married, has a kid, and takes spirituality very seriously. Yes, you did the math right, she had Yuki when she was 17. It's 1912, folks.
Chemical +2, Electrical +1
Young Mother: Adachi will cause double Office Stress if she has to work multiple tasks.

Uyeno Sei, Ballistics Engineer, 31.
The oldest member of the crew, this is Uyeno's second career. Her first was as an officer in the Imperial Navy with specialized technical training: her very promising career was cut short by her transition. Her work in a naval arsenal on machine-guns landed her the job here. Briefly dated Satomi (the age range is a bit creepy but again, 1912), she's missing a piece of her ear and is deaf on that side, from an exploding cannon. Recently returned from Varnmark from experimental surgery, she's known for her skill navigating gendered bureaucracy.
Ballistic +3

Mi Kyung-Jae, 23
A recent graduate of the Imperial College of Heijo, Mi is from the recently annexed territory of Joseon. For those keeping track at home, that means he's a Korean national living in Imperial Japan in 1912. We haven't seen much of his personality because he's rightfully terrified of everything around him. He has a specialty in endurance engine design and modification. Speaks Joseon.
Mechanical +1, Chemical +1
Endurance Engines: Mi has an excellent understanding of metallurgy and tolerances. Any engine he works on gains +1 Reliability if a 16+ is rolled.
Pulsejet Wizard: Mi is now one of the world's leading experts on the pulsejet engine. He can be given his own project to custom-craft pulsejet engines, and he gives +1 to any pulsejet-related project.
Joseon National: Mi does not have security clearance to work on any top-secret projects.

Miyoshi Shigeri, 23.
A non-binary person and admirer of Asuka's work, they were in an support role in the Army before joining the company.
Structural +1, Mechanical +1, Aerodynamic +1
Mechanic: Miyoshi has some experience repairing and refurbishing aircraft. They get +1 if assigned on the clean-up phase.

Other Employees
- Ohara Satomi, 22, Mr. Ohara's niece and the company test pilot, Ohara is a general lesbian disaster. She's good at flying planes, driving cars, and kissing girls. She's bad at being patient, being respectable, and sticking to literally anyones conceptions of gender roles. Deeply in lesbians with Coralie D'Amboise.
- Fujkikawa Sotatsu, old, modelmaker. He's an old man and toymaker and we don't see much of him because he locks himself in his workshop a lot. He's friends with Kawamura?

Assets
- Engine Test Rig (Allows engine tweaking and optimization.
- Wind Tunnel (+1 Aerodynamics)
- Rapid Prototype Lab (+1 Clean Up)

Expanded Cast

Akitsukuni Industry
- Homura Mohoko: Head Engine Designer for Kobayashi. First female engineer in the country. A lot of sex appeal.
- Okumura: Head of Akibara aircraft design.
- Yamanaka Hajime: Kobayashi engineer. Young and eager.
- Igarashi Masazumi: Kobayashi engineer. Reserved and experienced.
- Admiral Akibara Toru: Imperial Navy Admiral. Maximum nepotism. Maximum douchebag.
- Lt.Cmnd Akibara Shinzo: The above's son. A hottie but very forward.

Character Families
- Matsura(?) Mizuko: Asuka's sister. Was paralyzed in an accident in Asuka's first flight. Lives Elsewhere and is married now. Can't forgive Asuka, even though she's tried.
- Adachi Motoki: Adachi's husband, an accountant. Legally blind.
- Adachi Yuki: Adachi's 7 year old daughter and wannabe pilot. Very adorable.
- Yachi's Brother: Exists.
- Sakane's Wife: Exists. Drives him a bit crazy, but he loves her.
- Yachi's Brother's Wife: Exists. Is statistically likely to be pregnant.
- Lt. Coralie D'Amboise: Gallian pilot in exile. Satomi's girlfriend. 25. Accomplished bisexual duelist. She flew in the war for a single day, and for her troubles got a hole blown in her cheek and had her left arm paralyzed.

Akisukuni Army & Ex-Army
- Lt. Torio Tanaka: Yachi's former observer as an enlisted man. Was jumped up to fly Ducks and lost a leg on his first mission. A trained painter, married to Torio Saya.
- Captain Amari Shiro: A Dragonfly pilot who ended up flying as Yachi's partner. Kind of delightfully twinky. They sorta slept together at one point, which wasn't great. He lost his previous boyfriend in the April Offensive and turned his plane into a shrine. He was shot in the gut and is still recovering.
- Major Izuhara: Logistics officer, Imperial Army, this bespectled officer stood up to the Caspian Crown Prince and accidentally kicked off the Akitsikuni-Caspian War. The guilt was so much that, after almost a year of running Army procurement, he shot himself in a phone both.
- Captain Nakai Sekien: Army scout pilot. First person to drop a bomb from an airplane, later head of the Duck Squadrons.
- Captain Teshima: A Desk pilot that fought with Yachi. Lost an arm in the process, took over for Major Izuhara after his death. Seems cheery despite it all.
- Captain Nashio: A real piece of shit dude and probably a rapist, he's also a war hero as the second-highest scoring ace on the Akitsukuni side. He was a young shitty kid in way over his head but it's no excuse.
- Lt. Kinjo: Kind of a dumb lump and Nashio's friend, one of the desk pilots. Dead at 19.
- Lt. Okazaki: Yachi's friend from before the war and pilot, he died in a spin in his dragonfly. His death probably hit Yachi the hardest.

Westerners
- Rose & Antoinette Sears: Pioneers of flight. Sisters. Black in 1910s not!America. Yikes.
- Timina Guasti: Famous aircraft designer from Otrusia. Likes big planes and green.
- Prince Protasov Vasilyevich: Crown Prince of Great Caspia. Real dick. You gotta hand it to him though, a decent flier.
- Count von Zeppelin: Invented rigid airships. Runs a successful airline business. Damned impressive.
- Bennhold: Aircraft Engineer. Experimenting with metal aircraft.
- Aileen Middlemiss: Albian reporter for the Artimis Times. Well meaning and oblivious.

Available Tech

Materials: Wood, Duralumin, Molded Wood, Wood & Silk Composite, etc
All engine mounts
All wing types
Basic reinforcement
Wing warping and ailerons
Basic water radiators
Flying Wings
Semi-Monocoque design (requires at least half the slots have frame pieces)
Valved pulsejets
Basic weapon mounts and turrets

Tech not Yet Developed

Custom engines
Monocoque construction
Cantilever Wings and associated tech
V and T tails
Tailless designs
Aluminum and titanium
Cellulose surfacing
Any kind of radar
Weapon accessability mods
Interruptor gear
Geared propellers
And Maybe Other Stuff

Akitsukuni
Island Nation

Government
Constitutional Monarchy
- The democratic portions of the government are dubiously legitimate.
- The head of state is the Empress of Akitsukuni. She gives her blessing to newly formed governments.
- The Navy and a small number of families have undue influence on politics.

Economy
Developing Mixed Market
- Most industry is controlled by a small number of wealthy, family-owned companies.
- The state provides most contracts to industry. Consumer good market is anemic.
- Exports are few, mostly cultural.
- Imports are raw minerals, food, oil, and expertise.
- Currently suffering an economic crash after the last war.

Politics
The Diet is currently ruled by a Constitutional Nationalist government. It has a system of nonlocal proportional representation, with representatives appointed by the party in accordance to their share of the vote.
- Constitutional Nationalists: 50%
- Purity Club: 9%
- New Independents: 26%
- Fairness Association: 11%
- United Communist League: 2%
- Monarchists: 1%
- Assorted Fringe Parties: 5%

Demographics
Akitsukuni is mostly very ethnically homogeneous. Around 5% of the population are various minorities, most from nearby countries. Roughly .1% are westerners here for business or in advisory positions.
- Population: 55 Million
- Religion: Mostly Kodo. Roughly 2% of the population follows western religions.
- Wealth: Most wealth is concentrated in the top 5% of the country. Nearly 20% of the population lives in conditions indistinguishable from peasantry.
- Urbanization: Heavily urbanized for a small economy: 35% and rapidly growing.

Military
At Peace
- Imperial Akitsukuni Navy (IAN): The 6th largest in the world, and the most experienced.
- Imperial Akitsukuni Army (IAA): 150,000 highly experienced soldiers, and a considerable reserve.

Aspects
- Poor Resources: Aluminum costs +1.
- Damn Akitsukuni Engines!: Engines have -1 Reliability.

The Main Character Of This Quest Is Nonbinary And Uses They/Them Pronouns.

I Am Putting This Here Because The Next Person To Misgender Them Is Getting Yeeted Into The Trash

Also here's the Gayaverse TV Tropes page, because why not.

thepsyborg · Apr 29, 2019

I think, if it came to a vote right now, I'd want to go for one of the designs that's Flight Stress 1 without optimization, probably one of the non-paper ones. So Donkey-Lite or Daimyo.

Also, because fence-sitting is uncomfortable, I'm going to vote

[X] Right. We'll find an inn downtown. (Asuka and Mikami figure out what the fuck they are in a drunken conversation. May be stressful, dice will be involved.)

...and go offer up a prayer to the dice gods for their favor.

natruska · Apr 29, 2019

[X] Right. We'll split up downtown. (The holding pattern continues)

mikami might go up

but stress also go big up.

samdamandias · Apr 29, 2019

thepsyborg said:
@samdamandias, if any of this is not correct, please let me know and I'll make any changes.

Wing decks are 24m^2 each, not 22m^2, for a total of 48 wing area. Switching to Wood frame instead of Steel saved the two money needed to add flaps.

Stall speed 90 without optimizations. And, well, the optimizations don't actually do much for JER1

thepsyborg · Apr 30, 2019

samdamandias said:
Wing decks are 24m^2 each, not 22m^2, for a total of 48 wing area. Switching to Wood frame instead of Steel saved the two money needed to add flaps.

Stall speed 90 without optimizations. And, well, the optimizations don't actually do much for JER1

...I'm still adding up to 36 cost?
10 for 10x sections wood covering
1 for pilot windscreen
2 for copilot windscreen+controls
12 for two Ogres
1 for radiator loop
4 for two wood struts and two trusses
comes to 30, and flaps are 6 is 36?

And I'm coming up with 117 Drag, DP 23, and max speed 200kph instead of your 111 Drag, DP22, and max speed 210.

Aaargh we need a new master autosheet. But the spreadsheet I've been using is here if you want to check? Your plane should be the third tab.

samdamandias · Apr 30, 2019

thepsyborg said:
comes to 30, and flaps are 6 is 36?

Argh! Right! Budget is 34 max! Why did I think it was 36? Yeah, leave out the flaps and switch back to steel framing, since the only way to switch back to flaps would involve adding more canvas instead of wood for hull, which would kick JER1 back over a drag breakpoint...

And yes, we need a new autosheet, because I'm probably dropping a number somewhere

thepsyborg · Apr 30, 2019

samdamandias said:
Argh! Right! Budget is 34 max! Why did I think it was 36? Yeah, leave out the flaps and switch back to steel framing, since the only way to switch back to flaps would involve adding more canvas instead of wood for hull, which would kick JER1 back over a drag breakpoint...

And yes, we need a new autosheet, because I'm probably dropping a number somewhere

Okay, flaps gone, steel framing, and...back to 22m2 wing area per deck, or stick with 24? Best I can figure you get Stall 110/Max 200 with 24, and Stall 120/Max 210 with 22.

I'll update the comparison table once you confirm wing size; everything else checks out.

brmj · Apr 30, 2019

Here's something new I cooked up. Comparable to the Daimyo, but cheaper, sturdier and more reliable at the cost of 10kph slower top speed. I call it the droop-wing because the wings droop. Clever, right?

The one tricky thing here is the fact that I am using the rules for putting cargo in a passenger compartment to save one section over doing it the conventional way.

Droop-wing

Part	円	Mass	Drag	Structure	Strain	Frame	Other
CREW
Pilot, Windscreen	1	2	1			-1	+2 Bail Out
+Connection		1
Copilot, Windscreen	1	2	1			-1	+2 Bail Out
+Connection		1
+Copilot Controls	1						+3 Authority -1 Flight Stress
"Passengers x15" Passengers x10 Steward x1 Drinks x1 Bathroom x1 Mailbag x1		15				-6
+Connection		1
ENGINES
Ogre Z Alpha V-6 #1 In-wing nacelle (left)	6	8	4		-4		14 Power 5 Fuel Use Reliability -7(+5) Overspeed 23
Radiator, Drag 10 Panel, Low, Glycol		3	10				+25 Reliability (+12/+12, +1 extra)
Ogre Z Alpha V-6 #2 In-wing nacelle (right)	6	8	4		-4		14 Power 5 Fuel Use Reliability -7(+5) Overspeed 23
COVERING & FRAME
Frame, Wood, Base		3		10
Moulded Plywood x5	5	5	5	10		5
Canvas x4			8			4
WINGS
Shoulder 16m Span, 24m2 Area			8		-20		+2 PSTAB 0 Lift Bleed
Shoulder 16m Span, 22m2 Area			6		-19		+2 PSTAB +3 Lift Bleed +1 Authority
Covering: Canvas
Longest Wing Effects							-7 Authority
Inline semi-tandem			-10				+3 PSTAB +1 Lift Bleed
Anhedral gull-wing							-2 LSTAB +2 Lift Bleed
Total Wing Area Drag			23
STABILIZERS
No Horizontal Stabilizer
Single Standard Vertical Out Of Prop Stream			4
CONTROL SURFACES
Large Control Surfaces							ICP is top of ICR
Ailerons: Default
Rudder: Default
Elevator: Flying							-2 PSTAB +1 ICR
REINFORCEMENT
Struts, Wood, x2	2	2	6	10	10		24 Tension
Struts, Steel, x2	4	2	6	20	20		16 Tension
Wing Truss x1	1		6				25 Tension
Wires			5		65
LOAD
Fuel Tanks, Wing		6
Fuel, In Wing Tanks		30					30 Fuel Uses (15/engine)
Cargo x10 passenger luggage x10		10				-1
UPGRADES
Radiator Loop	1						Cabin/cockpit heating
LANDING GEAR
Conventional fixed			19

TOTAL	28	99	124	50	48

Propellor Pitch: Very Fine
Stability 4, Max Strain 29, Toughness 21, Handling 75, Fuel Endurance 15, Max Speed 20, Boost 1, DropOff 6, Stall 12, Ideal Control Range 16-24, Flight Stress 1

Price: 28円
Payload: 10 passengers, 3 crew, 1 mass luggage per passenger, 1 mass drinks/snacks/boxed meals, 1 mass airmail bag
Performance: 200kph at sea level, 15 Fuel Uses, 120kph stall, Flight Stress 1
- With one Streamlining optimization: 210kph at sea level
- With one Lightening optimization: 17 fuel uses, 19 if we abuse microtanks more egregiously
Pro: Not made of paper, bathroom, cabin heat, under budget, flight stress 1, positive stability (but not too high!), generous Strain/Toughness, engine Reliability +5, less bizarre than most of the others.
Con: Not the fastest plane in the world. No crew luggage allowance.

Appearance/layout details for @4WheelSword:

An inline tandem wing aircraft, relatively conventional by our standards. The wings are shoulder mounted, with a substantial gull wing shape with a net anhedral effect. A short upward sloped section, then the remainder of the wing angled down. The front wing has in engine mounted in in-wing nacelles at the bend, with the engine pushed as far forward as is structurally feasible and the nacelle extending behind it to provide room for a fuel tank. There is a radiator in between the front wings over the fuselage, connected to both engines. The back wing is similar but without the engine and is slightly narrower. There is a single vertical stabilizer at the rear of the fuselage. The landing gear is a conventional tail-dragger design. The fuselage is probably a bit smaller than some of the others, since there is absolutely nothing in it that I couldn't do away with or move elsewhere.

Spreadsheet

thepsyborg · Apr 30, 2019

Revised comparison table! Note that all designs meet all of the required benchmarks; the "Goals" column indicates how many of the preferred ones are met- except those which would require research, since we already voted to ban spending additional stress this routine. Yellow text indicates any category that falls short by one increment. (Orange would be two or more. Red would be failure to meet the mandatory requirements. Thankfully, I had no call to use either of these colors.)

-[X] LAYOUT
--[X] At least two Ogres, probably twin-boom pusher.
--[X] Two wings, probably tandem, exact arrangement TBD.
--[X] Two flight crew (pilot and copilot) plus an air steward / skybutler.
--[X] 10 passengers plus luggage.
-[X] ESSENTIAL
--[X] Positive stability
--[X] 8 Fuel Uses
--[X] Safe engine-out level flight capability at full load.
-[X] PREFERABLE
--[X] 200kph+
--[X] 15+ Fuel Uses
--[X] Cabin/cockpit heat, ~~intercom, pushrod controls~~, Stability max 5 (lower flight stress)
--[X] Full-load stall speed 12 or less
--[X] Engines and fuel located away from, preferably behind, the passenger compartment.

Designs are posted in order of their posting in the thread.

Design	Goals	Cost	Speed	Stall	Strain	Tough	Range	Stress	Reliab	Notes	Link
Joseon Express Rev.1 +Streamlining 1 +Lightening 1	6/6	32円	200 210 200	110	21 21 23	29 29 27	17	1	+5	Paper Slim Strain margin	#14687
Donkey +Streamlining 1 +Lightening 1	5/6 5/6 6/6	30円	210 220 210	130 130 120	30 30 32	19 19 17	17	2 2 1	+5	11 passengers crew luggage	#14696
Donkey-Lite +Streamlining 1 +Lightening 1	6/6	28円	210 220 210	120 120 110*	30 30 31	12 12 11	15 15 19*	1	+5	*w/Lighten, choose 1: 120 stall/19 range 110 stall/17 range	#14696
Daimyo +Streamlining 1 +Lightening 1	6/6	34円 34円 28円	210 220 210	120	25 25 27	11 11 9	15	1	+3		#14738
Dagon +Streamlining 1 +Lightening 1	6/6	28円	200 210 200	120 120 110	28 28 30	22 22 20	16	2 2 1	+5	11 passengers crew luggage exploity?	#14761
Dagon-Paper +Streamlining 1 +Lightening 1	6/6	28円	200 210 200	110	31 31 32	18 18 17	16	1	+5	As Dagon, plus: Paper	#14761
Dromedary +Streamlining 1 +Lightening 1	5/6 6/6 5/6	28円	190 200 190	120 120 110	30 30 32	19 19 17	16	2 2 1	+5	11 passengers crew luggage conventional/boring	#14765
Droop-wing +Streamlining 1 +Lightening 1	6/6	28円	200 210 200	120	29 29 30	21 21 20	15 15 17*	1	+5	or Range 19 w/ both* optimizations or microtank abuse	#14830

brmj said:
Droop-wing

Looks good. Not sure it does anything the Donkey-Lite doesn't, besides look cooler, but it definitely does do that. Instead of egregious microtank abuse, can it hit 19 range with an external fuel tank and 3 microtanks without hitting a drag breakpoint? If optimized, of course.

brmj said:
The one tricky thing here is the fact that I am using the rules for putting cargo in a passenger compartment to save one section over doing it the conventional way.

Nah, that doesn't count as tricky, considering literally every design here is using it to account for the booze and snacks as cargo in the passenger compartment, and a couple for additional odds and ends beyond that.

brmj · Apr 30, 2019

thepsyborg said:
Looks good. Not sure it does anything the Donkey-Lite doesn't, besides look cooler, but it definitely does do that. Instead of egregious microtank abuse, can it hit 19 range with an external fuel tank and 3 microtanks without hitting a drag breakpoint? If optimized, of course.

Nope. There is no room for a 7th external tank under the drag breakpoint. However, with both optimizations, it is possible to do that, swap out one unit of canvas covering for more plywood, add a microtank and end up with 18 fuel uses and a top speed of 210.

Edit: 19 range after all. Forgot to factor in the increased mass reduction after adding more mass.

thepsyborg · Apr 30, 2019

So it looks like the choices baaaaaasically come down to:

PICK ANY TWO OUT OF THREE:

Crew luggage allowance and eleventh passenger
Guaranteed Flight Stress 1
Not Made Of Paper

1+2 is the Dagon-Paper.
1+3 is the Donkey, Dagon, and Dromedary
2+3 is the Donkey-Lite, Daimyo, and Droop-Wing
2 only is the JER1

And then minor variations in speed and strain once you pick your pair of preferences.

Edit:

brmj said:
Edit: 19 range after all. Forgot to factor in the increased mass reduction after adding more mass.

Table edited.

brmj · Apr 30, 2019

thepsyborg said:
So it looks like the choices baaaaaasically come down to:

PICK ANY TWO OUT OF THREE:

Crew luggage allowance and eleventh passenger

Guaranteed Flight Stress 1

Not Made Of Paper

1+2 is the Dagon-Paper.
1+3 is the Donkey, Dagon, and Dromedary
2+3 is the JER1, Donkey-Lite, Daimyo, and Droop-Wing

And then minor variations in speed and strain once you pick your pair of preferences.

Edit:

Table edited.

Looks like I can up the max speed by one if I use something more like your reinforcement scheme and move the fuel back into the fuselage. At that point there is almost nothing to distinguish them, beside mine having higher max strain and lower toughness.

Does toughness actually matter if you've got a really high max strain? Is it just a safety margin before damage impacts performance significantly, or does it do something else? Because I feel like a toughness of 7 ought to be concerning, but if my max strain is 36 and this thing will never get shot at, maybe it isn't?

Axslashel · Apr 30, 2019

[X] Right. We'll split up downtown. (The holding pattern continues)

I feel they might be just a little bit too drunk and tired too make such important decisions.

brmj · Apr 30, 2019

A version with fuel moved back inside and tweaks to the reinforcement scheme. Should be very similar to the Donkey-Lite

Fast Droop-wing

Part	円	Mass	Drag	Structure	Strain	Frame	Other
CREW
Pilot, Windscreen	1	2	1			-1	+2 Bail Out
+Connection		1
Copilot, Windscreen	1	2	1			-1	+2 Bail Out
+Connection		1
+Copilot Controls	1						+3 Authority -1 Flight Stress
"Passengers x15" Passengers x10 Steward x1 Drinks x1 Bathroom x1 Mailbag x1		15				-6
+Connection		1
ENGINES
Ogre Z Alpha V-6 #1 In-wing nacelle (left)	6	8	4		-4		14 Power 5 Fuel Use Reliability -7(+5) Overspeed 23
Radiator, Drag 10 Panel, Low, Glycol		3	10				+25 Reliability (+12/+12, +1 extra)
Ogre Z Alpha V-6 #2 In-wing nacelle (right)	6	8	4		-4		14 Power 5 Fuel Use Reliability -7(+5) Overspeed 23
COVERING & FRAME
Frame, Wood, Base		3		10
Moulded Plywood x6	6	6	6	12		6
Canvas x6			12			6
WINGS
Shoulder 16m Span, 24m2 Area			8		-20		+2 PSTAB 0 Lift Bleed
Shoulder 16m Span, 22m2 Area			6		-19		+2 PSTAB +3 Lift Bleed +1 Authority
Covering: Canvas
Longest Wing Effects							-7 Authority
Inline semi-tandem			-10				+3 PSTAB +1 Lift Bleed
Anhedral gull-wing							-2 LSTAB +2 Lift Bleed
Total Wing Area Drag			23
STABILIZERS
No Horizontal Stabilizer
Single Standard Vertical Out Of Prop Stream			4
CONTROL SURFACES
Large Control Surfaces							ICP is top of ICR
Ailerons: Default
Rudder: Default
Elevator: Flying							-2 PSTAB +1 ICR
REINFORCEMENT
Struts, Wood, x2	2	2	6	10	10		24 Tension
Struts, Steel, x1	2	1	3	10	10		8 Tension
Wing Truss x2	2		12				50 Tension
Wires			5		82
LOAD
Fuel Tanks, fuselage		6				-3
Fuel, In fuselage Tanks		30					30 Fuel Uses (15/engine)
Cargo x10 passenger luggage x10		10				-1
UPGRADES
Radiator Loop	1						Cabin/cockpit heating
LANDING GEAR
Conventional fixed			19

TOTAL	28	99	114	42	55

Propellor Pitch: Very Fine
Stability 4, Max Strain 36, Toughness 6, Handling 75, Fuel Endurance 15, Max Speed 21, Boost 1, DropOff 6, Stall 12, Ideal Control Range 16-24, Flight Stress 1

Price: 28円
Payload: 10 passengers, 3 crew, 1 mass luggage per passenger, 1 mass drinks/snacks/boxed meals, 1 mass airmail bag
Performance: 210kph at sea level, 15 Fuel Uses, 120kph stall, Flight Stress 1
- With one Streamlining optimization: 220kph at sea level
- With one Lightening optimization: 19 fuel uses
Pro: Not made of paper, bathroom, cabin heat, under budget, flight stress 1, positive stability (but not too high!), Great Strain, engine Reliability +5, less bizarre than most of the others.
Con: Not the fastest plane in the world. No crew luggage allowance. Not so great toughness.

Appearance/layout details for @4WheelSword:

An inline tandem wing aircraft, relatively conventional by our standards. The wings are shoulder mounted, with a substantial gull wing shape with a net anhedral effect. A short upward sloped section, then the remainder of the wing angled down. The front wing has in engine mounted in in-wing nacelles at the bend. There is a radiator in between the front wings over the fuselage, connected to both engines. The back wing is similar but without the engine and is slightly narrower. There is a single vertical stabilizer at the rear of the fuselage. The landing gear is a conventional tail-dragger design.

Spreadsheet

thepsyborg · Apr 30, 2019

brmj said:
Does toughness actually matter if you've got a really high max strain? Is it just a safety margin before damage impacts performance significantly, or does it do something else? Because I feel like a toughness of 7 ought to be concerning, but if my max strain is 36 and this thing will never get shot at, maybe it isn't?

I have no idea. It's probably also resilience against shitty maintenance, hail, and bird strikes, but beyond that? As far as I can tell, no, Toughness is irrelevant to civilian planes. I've just been trying to stay above 10 because having it fragile feels wrong, even if I know it doesn't actually matter.

I suppose I could get the Donkey-Lite down to 27 or maybe 26円 if I didn't have to care about Toughness, which would at least distinguish it from some of the other designs on cost grounds. Still don't think I'm comfortable going that fragile, though.

brmj said:
Fast Droop-wing

Too sleepy to edit table; will do tomorrow.

Toughness aside, that's utterly interchangeable with the Donkey-Lite in every other respect. And probably quite a bit prettier.

brmj · Apr 30, 2019

thepsyborg said:
I have no idea. It's probably also resilience against shitty maintenance, hail, and bird strikes, but beyond that? As far as I can tell, no, Toughness is irrelevant to civilian planes. I've just been trying to stay above 10 because having it fragile feels wrong, even if I know it doesn't actually matter.

I suppose I could get the Donkey-Lite down to 27 or maybe 26円 if I didn't have to care about Toughness, which would at least distinguish it from some of the other designs on cost grounds. Still don't think I'm comfortable going that fragile, though.

Too sleepy to edit table; will do tomorrow.

Toughness aside, that's utterly interchangeable with the Donkey-Lite in every other respect. And probably quite a bit prettier.

I find it really interesting that all these radically different designs are converging on almost the exact same stats. It suggests a pretty balanced rule system, with no one approach dominating and a lot of room to make unusual choices. Though the fact that the one normal one ended up slightly inferior to most of the others also says something too. If that's the case more generally, I'm not sure what I think about that. I like the kind of oddities we produce being viable, but the normal approach ought to be viable too. I guess the Dromedary was a bit easier to design than these other ones have been, but I don't know if that was because it was more normal, or just because there was much less solution space to explore. Still, it's close enough in performance that I'm not too worried about the implications.

Nyvis · Apr 30, 2019

[X] Right. We'll find an inn downtown. (Asuka and Mikami figure out what the fuck they are in a drunken conversation. May be stressful, dice will be involved.)

It's going to be a bit stressful, but we can't let it fester. And we committed to no stress at work already so we should be fine.

Himmelhand · Apr 30, 2019

For those readers who aren't in the design cabal, what is your take on the options coming up for this vote? Are there any distinctions between the planes that are meaningful, or does it pretty much all come across as noise?

wtdtd · Apr 30, 2019

mostly. although i will vote for anything that is not paper.

Faith · Apr 30, 2019

Himmelhand said:
For those readers who aren't in the design cabal, what is your take on the options coming up for this vote? Are there any distinctions between the planes that are meaningful, or does it pretty much all come across as noise?

All the planes make the same kind of noise, it's kind of like, "nyoooOOOOOOOoooooom" as they go overhead.

Gnarker · Apr 30, 2019

Himmelhand said:
For those readers who aren't in the design cabal, what is your take on the options coming up for this vote? Are there any distinctions between the planes that are meaningful, or does it pretty much all come across as noise?

I can broadly follow along, but I also looked at least a little bit into the design rules and have been following this quest for a while now.

open_sketch · Apr 30, 2019

I'll be putting a summary of each design when it comes time to vote, which will be soon.

I need to do more emojis first. Whispers 2 isn't in a position to make sad happen so you all have to suffer until then.

Be glad I am not also taking out my smutwriting on you.

brmj · Apr 30, 2019

open_sketchbook said:
I'll be putting a summary of each design when it comes time to vote, which will be soon.

I need to do more emojis first. Whispers 2 isn't in a position to make sad happen so you all have to suffer until then.

Be glad I am not also taking out my smutwriting on you.

We've had plenty of sad recently. The end of the war was full of it. I for one would like to see things going more or less well for a bit, and get a chance for various people to rebuild their lives. That said, whatever you write will no doubt be good.

Also, while you're here, want to remind me if toughness has any role beyond a safety margin for damage? Because if it doesn't, then I can probably replace the droop-wing with the fast variant rather than entering them separately without it being any worse off.

Diomedea · Apr 30, 2019

I've been paying attention to the difference in material (paper bad!), Strain/Flight Stress, range, carrying capacity, and cost. I've not sat down and compared each design carefully, but that's because I'm waiting for them to be finished and for the real comparison to start.

open_sketch · Apr 30, 2019

brmj said:
We've had plenty of sad recently. The end of the war was full of it. I for one would like to see things going more or less well for a bit, and get a chance for various people to rebuild their lives. That said, whatever you write will no doubt be good.

Also, while you're here, want to remind me if toughness has any role beyond a safety margin for damage? Because if it doesn't, then I can probably replace the droop-wing with the fast variant rather than entering them separately without it being any worse off.

Toughness will help a plane if there are accidents or incidents.

Emojis don't have to be sad emojis!

4WheelSword · Apr 30, 2019

open_sketchbook said:
I'll be putting a summary of each design when it comes time to vote, which will be soon.

Can I get a 12 hour warning or something first? There's a lot of new designs I need to skim through first and life is a lil complex rn.

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