Again, compromise is the most expensive option. Since we can't have negative public economic options taking all of the liberal options effectively reduces the cost by a -1 government action modifier. We really do not need a great deal of direct control over the economy, so surrendering it is pretty cheap in any case. In exchange, we get improvements to wealth production which can be used to paste over problems of any sort which might arise, plus research bonuses.

Government economic actions can be used to address only some classes of problem, and even fewer which would not be addressed reasonably well by private actions. Wealth makes it easier to address virtually any problem.
 
A bit futile at this point, but I'll again argue for Shareholder over Servant. It's far easier to release bonds then tighten them; a more authoritarian figure releasing power is often lauded, while a more libertarian figure seizing it is dangerous. So even though we do perhaps eventually want something like a republic, we don't want to jump straight there.

Also, people are worried about the 504's reaction - think of the Dragonfly reaction. The 504 will be pretty happy at 'getting something' (less authoritarian control) in a dominant neighbor's system, but the Dragonfly nobles might decide to work against us. Even if that doesn't lead to a bit of insurrection, that's going to be inconvenient.

I mean, I suppose it's not a *huge* deal, but I worry about the above two. Mechanics-wise, I would like the ability to convert Personal actions into Economic actions.
 
[X] Private-Public Production
[X] Public Goods, Private Businesses
[X] State Owned Bank
[X] Chief Shareholder
 
[X] Private-Public Production
[X] Public Goods, Private Businesses
[X] State Backed Banks
[X] Servant of the State
 
5.3
[X] Private-Public Production
[X] Public Goods, Private Businesses
[X] State Backed Banks
[X] Servant of the State

Economic Summit II


Eventually you decide to go for the middle ground, as much as you could call it that. You don't want to surrender complete control over your economy and production - laughable as it was at the moment - to free market whims, but you don't particularly feel like hording all of the economic power to yourself. A lot of the little stuff is probably also stupid to worry much about. Still, with large scale infrastructure projects currently under your purview, you don't really need to worry too much about private enterprise doing too much you might not like. No one is going to try to walk off with some of the infrastructure gear you found.

Now that you are hammering into shape the general models that will be used, a number of more fine details of the law need to be given a more fine tuning, which becomes interminable. The biggest issues that you actually manage to pay attention to are about food and trade and restricted items.

Food
[] Strategic Resource - The State controls the production and distribution of food. CURRENT MODEL
[] Ration Quotas - The State mandates minimum ration quotas for production but allows for private cultivation of luxuries once minimums have been met. Effect: Halves growth from surplus food, but increases Wealth Generation
[] Free Market - Food is produced and sold as a commodity, including the volatility that implies. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, Increased Trade, Economic disasters can cause famine even if food production should be sufficient

Trade
[] State-to-State - Trade deals between other communities can only be brokered via Diplomatic action. Effect: Large gains to the State from trade deals, fewer trade deals CURRENT MODEL
[] Tariffs - Rather that controlling trade directly, you will simply tax it and let the merchants and entrepreneurs figure out the details. Effect: Moderate income from trade, moderate number of trade deals
[] Free Trade - So long as its legal to take it in or out, the State will not interfere. Effect: No income directly from trade, increase in Wealth Generation

Technology
[] State Secrets - Your science and technology is of key importance to you, so it is for you to release when and how you chose to do so. Effect: Minimal chance of theft via espionage CURRENT MODEL
[] Internal Trade - Citizens within the State are free to share and discuss technology, but are restricted from sale to actors outside the State. Effect: Small chance of theft via espionage, random boosts to projects
[] External Trade - If someone is willing to pay and the technology isn't otherwise restricted, then your technological products are up for sale. Effect: Moderate chance of theft via espionage, random boosts to projects, Increased Trade

Weapons
[] State Control - People can only make weapons on your explicit say so CURRENT MODEL
[] Internal Private Production - Private citizens are permitted to establish businesses for the manufacture and sale of weaponry, but only within your internal markets (Note: Depending on weapon ownership laws the only internal market may be the State). Effect: Weapons cheaper, but may end up with more than desired
[] External Sale - Private citizens are permitted to not just produce weaponry but sell it to non-citizens. Effect: Increased Trade, people you might not like could get guns you made

Law Summit I

Just when you thought the interminable legalese was over, Armin showed up with most of the academics you had just finished up with and started going over legal principles. You had been living under martial law not just since the bombs fell but also since the ships had stopped coming, more or less, so you were somewhat surprised about all the laws and principles that had been suspended your whole life. You also find out about other legal traditions and what they could mean for the future.

Freedom of Expression, Assembly, and Association
[] Banned Expression - When people start getting together in large groups and saying whatever they want, they start getting ideas. Effect: Decreased happiness, reduced enemy espionage chances, research penalties, decreased democracy desire
[] Restricted Expression - Sometimes you need to hear when you're screwing up and you don't particularly feel like putting the boot down most of the time, but there are some things you just shouldn't say. CURRENT MODEL
[] Open Expression - When people start getting together in large groups and saying whatever they want, they start getting ideas. Effect: Increased happiness, increased enemy espionage chances, research bonuses, increased democracy desire

Application of Law
[] Martial - The law exists for the purposes of maintaining order when the barrel of the gun isn't pointing at you. Effect: Reduced happiness, reduced revolt risk. CURRENT MODEL
[] Privileged - The law keeps the haves from being mugged by the have-nots. Effect: Academic and artisan attrition decreased by 1%, Growth reduced by 1%
[] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire

Weapon Ownership
[] Weapons Ban - Weapons are for the police and military, not for private citizens. Effect: No (legal) internal market for weapons other than the State. CURRENT MODEL
[] Restricted Weapons - Weapons for personal defence and hunting can be owned by private citizens. Effect: Internal weapons market and sub-militia can be mobilized for defence if have weaponry not assigned to militia
[] Open Weapons - It's a dangerous world out there, so a bit more firepower comes in handy. Effect: Internal weapons market that military grade personal weapons can be sold on
 
Last edited:
[X] Ration Quotas - The State mandates minimum ration quotas for production but allows for private cultivation of luxuries once minimums have been met. Effect: Halves growth from surplus food, but increases Wealth Generation

[X] Free Trade - So long as its legal to take it in or out, the State will not interfere. Effect: No income directly from trade, increase in Wealth Generation

[X] External Trade - If someone is willing to pay and the technology isn't otherwise restricted, then your technological products are up for sale. Effect: Moderate chance of theft via espionage, random boosts to projects, Increased Trade.
(With the caveat that military technology and other dangerous stuff Is kept restricted)

[X] Internal Private Production - Private citizens are permitted to establish businesses for the manufacture and sale of weaponry, but only within your internal markets (Note: Depending on weapon ownership laws the only internal market may be the State). Effect: Weapons cheaper, but may end up with more than desired

[X] Restricted - Sometimes you need to hear when you're screwing up and you don't particularly feel like putting the boot down most of the time, but there are some things you just shouldn't say. CURRENT MODEL

[X] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire

[X] Restricted - Weapons for personal defence and hunting can be owned by private citizens. Effect: Internal weapons market and sub-militia can be mobilized for defence if have weaponry not assigned to militia

Generally speaking, my perspective is that The State doesn't get involved with anything save for guaranteeing at least a minimum standard of living of the population (Mandating enough food for everyone, and that people can defend themselves from criminals). As long as you're not doing anything illegal, you can knock yourself out.

Even with the Freedom of Speech, the State generally doesn't give a shit unless you start actively agitating, or causing problems. Furthermore, Laws are important--they should serve to empower a capable leader, while shackling a poor one.
 
[X] Ration Quotas - The State mandates minimum ration quotas for production but allows for private cultivation of luxuries once minimums have been met. Effect: Halves growth from surplus food, but increases Wealth Generation
[X] Tariffs - Rather that controlling trade directly, you will simply tax it and let the merchants and entrepreneurs figure out the details. Effect: Moderate income from trade, moderate number of trade deals
[X] State Secrets - Your science and technology is of key importance to you, so it is for you to release when and how you chose to do so. Effect: Minimal chance of theft via espionage CURRENT MODEL
[X] Internal Private Production - Private citizens are permitted to establish businesses for the manufacture and sale of weaponry, but only within your internal markets (Note: Depending on weapon ownership laws the only internal market may be the State). Effect: Weapons cheaper, but may end up with more than desired
[X] Restricted Expression - Sometimes you need to hear when you're screwing up and you don't particularly feel like putting the boot down most of the time, but there are some things you just shouldn't say. CURRENT MODEL
[X] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire
[X] Restricted Weapons - Weapons for personal defence and hunting can be owned by private citizens. Effect: Internal weapons market and sub-militia can be mobilized for defence if have weaponry not assigned to militia

This is my first build but will be open to change.
Ease up on food and trade but at the moment I really don't want tech trade.
The internal weapons weapons trade allows the citizens to feel safe but it doesn't end up with us arming other groups.
The Expression is fine as is for the moment and we have to start the Equal under the law aspect now if we ever want it to take root. Doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, the Law is the Law.
 
Last edited:
[X] Ration Quotas

I'm fine with easing restrictions on food so long as we keep some in reserve.

[X] Tariffs

Trade is good, and so's taxing it!

[X] State Control

This is our major advantage, I'm not letting go of it, especially once we crack how to mass produce the Really good stuff.

[X] Internal Private Production

Letting people make their own weapons is good, but we need to keep control over who outside of our group gets them.

[X] Restricted Freedoms

Keeping it at this sounds good to me.

[X] Equal

The rich don't get special privileges.

[X] Restricted Ownership

I'm cool with people owning their own weapons.
 
Last edited:
Food

[X] Ration Quotas - The State mandates minimum ration quotas for production but allows for private cultivation of luxuries once minimums have been met. Effect: Halves growth from surplus food, but increases Wealth Generation


Trade

[X] Tariffs - Rather that controlling trade directly, you will simply tax it and let the merchants and entrepreneurs figure out the details. Effect: Moderate income from trade, moderate number of trade deals


Technology

[X] Internal Trade - Citizens within the State are free to share and discuss technology, but are restricted from sale to actors outside the State. Effect: Small chance of theft via espionage, random boosts to projects

Weapons

[X] Internal Private Production - Private citizens are permitted to establish businesses for the manufacture and sale of weaponry, but only within your internal markets (Note: Depending on weapon ownership laws the only internal market may be the State). Effect: Weapons cheaper, but may end up with more than desired


Law Summit I

Just when you thought the interminable legalese was over, Armin showed up with most of the academics you had just finished up with and started going over legal principles. You had been living under martial law not just since the bombs fell but also since the ships had stopped coming, more or less, so you were somewhat surprised about all the laws and principles that had been suspended your whole life. You also find out about other legal traditions and what they could mean for the future.

Freedom of Expression, Assembly, and Association

[X] Restricted - Sometimes you need to hear when you're screwing up and you don't particularly feel like putting the boot down most of the time, but there are some things you just shouldn't say. CURRENT MODEL

Application of Law

[X] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire

Weapon Ownership

[X] Restricted - Weapons for personal defence and hunting can be owned by private citizens. Effect: Internal weapons market and sub-militia can be mobilized for defence if have weaponry not assigned to militia
 
[x] Strategic Resource - The State controls the production and distribution of food. CURRENT MODEL
Growth is needed and famines are terrible, so this is our only decent choice.​
[x] Tariffs - Rather that controlling trade directly, you will simply tax it and let the merchants and entrepreneurs figure out the details. Effect: Moderate income from trade, moderate number of trade deals
Trade is important but not so important the state must control it entirely.​
[x] Internal Trade - Citizens within the State are free to share and discuss technology, but are restricted from sale to actors outside the State. Effect: Small chance of theft via espionage, random boosts to projects
We don't want to lose our technological advantage, and that random boost seems nice.​
[x] Internal Private Production - Private citizens are permitted to establish businesses for the manufacture and sale of weaponry, but only within your internal markets (Note: Depending on weapon ownership laws the only internal market may be the State). Effect: Weapons cheaper, but may end up with more than desired
As long as we don't let anyone else have guns, this seems like the best option.​

[x] Restricted - Sometimes you need to hear when you're screwing up and you don't particularly feel like putting the boot down most of the time, but there are some things you just shouldn't say. CURRENT MODEL
Tech penalties are terrible.​
[x] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire
The other options are terrible, but we need to be careful to minimize democracy desire.*​
[x] Banned - Weapons are for the police and military, not for private citizens. Effect: No (legal) internal market for weapons other than the State. CURRENT MODEL
The state needs to maintain a monopoly of force. I'd be okay with a different production model and then allowing some people to have guns, but cheaper guns are awesome.​
*I'm really afraid we are going to end up with a completely ceremonial role like the Japanese Imperial Family. I think people might be choosing the government they want to live in, not what we can maintain in our current setting.
 
[X] Ration Quotas - The State mandates minimum ration quotas for production but allows for private cultivation of luxuries once minimums have been met. Effect: Halves growth from surplus food, but increases Wealth Generation
[X] Tariffs - Rather that controlling trade directly, you will simply tax it and let the merchants and entrepreneurs figure out the details. Effect: Moderate income from trade, moderate number of trade deals
[X] State Control - Your science and technology is of key importance to you, so it is for you to release when and how you chose to do so. Effect: Minimal chance of theft via espionage CURRENT MODEL
[X] Internal Private Production - Private citizens are permitted to establish businesses for the manufacture and sale of weaponry, but only within your internal markets (Note: Depending on weapon ownership laws the only internal market may be the State). Effect: Weapons cheaper, but may end up with more than desired
[X] Restricted - Sometimes you need to hear when you're screwing up and you don't particularly feel like putting the boot down most of the time, but there are some things you just shouldn't say. CURRENT MODEL
[X] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire
[x] Banned - Weapons are for the police and military, not for private citizens. Effect: No (legal) internal market for weapons other than the State. CURRENT MODEL
 
Last edited:
"A democracy, that is, a government of all the people, by all the people, for all the people; of course, a government after the principles of eternal justice, the unchanging law of God; for shortness sake, I will call it the idea of freedom."
-THEODORE PARKER

sorry, but i like that quote...

[X] Ration Quotas - The State mandates minimum ration quotas for production but allows for private cultivation of luxuries once minimums have been met. Effect: Halves growth from surplus food, but increases Wealth Generation

[X] Free Trade - So long as its legal to take it in or out, the State will not interfere. Effect: No income directly from trade, increase in Wealth Generation

[X] Internal Trade - Citizens within the State are free to share and discuss technology, but are restricted from sale to actors outside the State. Effect: Small chance of theft via espionage, random boosts to projects

[X] Internal Private Production - Private citizens are permitted to establish businesses for the manufacture and sale of weaponry, but only within your internal markets (Note: Depending on weapon ownership laws the only internal market may be the State). Effect: Weapons cheaper, but may end up with more than desired

[X] Open Expression - When people start getting together in large groups and saying whatever they want, they start getting ideas. Effect: Increased happiness, increased enemy espionage chances, research bonuses, increased democracy desire

[X] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire

[X] Restricted - Weapons for personal defence and hunting can be owned by private citizens. Effect: Internal weapons market and sub-militia can be mobilized for defence if have weaponry not assigned to militia
 
Last edited:
[X] Ration Quotas - The State mandates minimum ration quotas for production but allows for private cultivation of luxuries once minimums have been met. Effect: Halves growth from surplus food, but increases Wealth Generation
[X] Tariffs - Rather that controlling trade directly, you will simply tax it and let the merchants and entrepreneurs figure out the details. Effect: Moderate income from trade, moderate number of trade deals
[X] State Secrets - Your science and technology is of key importance to you, so it is for you to release when and how you chose to do so. Effect: Minimal chance of theft via espionage CURRENT MODEL
[X] Internal Private Production - Private citizens are permitted to establish businesses for the manufacture and sale of weaponry, but only within your internal markets (Note: Depending on weapon ownership laws the only internal market may be the State). Effect: Weapons cheaper, but may end up with more than desired
[X] Restricted Expression - Sometimes you need to hear when you're screwing up and you don't particularly feel like putting the boot down most of the time, but there are some things you just shouldn't say. CURRENT MODEL
[X] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire
[X] Restricted Weapons - Weapons for personal defence and hunting can be owned by private citizens. Effect: Internal weapons market and sub-militia can be mobilized for defence if have weaponry not assigned to militia
 
[X] Ration Quotas - The State mandates minimum ration quotas for production but allows for private cultivation of luxuries once minimums have been met. Effect: Halves growth from surplus food, but increases Wealth Generation
[X] Tariffs - Rather that controlling trade directly, you will simply tax it and let the merchants and entrepreneurs figure out the details. Effect: Moderate income from trade, moderate number of trade deals
[X] State Secrets - Your science and technology is of key importance to you, so it is for you to release when and how you chose to do so. Effect: Minimal chance of theft via espionage CURRENT MODEL
[X] Internal Private Production - Private citizens are permitted to establish businesses for the manufacture and sale of weaponry, but only within your internal markets (Note: Depending on weapon ownership laws the only internal market may be the State). Effect: Weapons cheaper, but may end up with more than desired
[X] Restricted Expression - Sometimes you need to hear when you're screwing up and you don't particularly feel like putting the boot down most of the time, but there are some things you just shouldn't say. CURRENT MODEL
[X] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire
[X] Restricted Weapons - Weapons for personal defence and hunting can be owned by private citizens. Effect: Internal weapons market and sub-militia can be mobilized for defence if have weaponry not assigned to militia.

Not sure about the Equal, but it seems in character from what has been shown so far.
 
[X] Ration Quotas - The State mandates minimum ration quotas for production but allows for private cultivation of luxuries once minimums have been met. Effect: Halves growth from surplus food, but increases Wealth Generation
[X] Tariffs - Rather that controlling trade directly, you will simply tax it and let the merchants and entrepreneurs figure out the details. Effect: Moderate income from trade, moderate number of trade deals
[X] Internal Trade - Citizens within the State are free to share and discuss technology, but are restricted from sale to actors outside the State. Effect: Small chance of theft via espionage, random boosts to projects
[X] Internal Private Production - Private citizens are permitted to establish businesses for the manufacture and sale of weaponry, but only within your internal markets (Note: Depending on weapon ownership laws the only internal market may be the State). Effect: Weapons cheaper, but may end up with more than desired
[X] Open Expression - When people start getting together in large groups and saying whatever they want, they start getting ideas. Effect: Increased happiness, increased enemy espionage chances, research bonuses, increased democracy desire
[X] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire
[X] Restricted Weapons - Weapons for personal defence and hunting can be owned by private citizens. Effect: Internal weapons market and sub-militia can be mobilized for defence if have weaponry not assigned to militia
 
Last edited:
Food
[X] Ration Quotas - The State mandates minimum ration quotas for production but allows for private cultivation of luxuries once minimums have been met. Effect: Halves growth from surplus food, but increases Wealth Generation

Trade
[X] Tariffs - Rather that controlling trade directly, you will simply tax it and let the merchants and entrepreneurs figure out the details. Effect: Moderate income from trade, moderate number of trade deals

Technology
[X] Internal Trade - Citizens within the State are free to share and discuss technology, but are restricted from sale to actors outside the State. Effect: Small chance of theft via espionage, random boosts to projects

Weapons
[X] Internal Private Production - Private citizens are permitted to establish businesses for the manufacture and sale of weaponry, but only within your internal markets (Note: Depending on weapon ownership laws the only internal market may be the State). Effect: Weapons cheaper, but may end up with more than desired
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Freedom of Expression, Assembly, and Association
[X] Open Expression - When people start getting together in large groups and saying whatever they want, they start getting ideas. Effect: Increased happiness, increased enemy espionage chances, research bonuses, increased democracy desire

Application of Law
[X] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire

Weapon Ownership
[X] Restricted Weapons - Weapons for personal defence and hunting can be owned by private citizens. Effect: Internal weapons market and sub-militia can be mobilized for defence if have weaponry not assigned to militia
 
[X] Strategic Resource - The State controls the production and distribution of food. CURRENT MODEL

I think the environment of Dendriss makes a food monopoly very powerful and difficult to break. I'd rather we held on to that for the foreseeable future.

[X] Free Trade - So long as its legal to take it in or out, the State will not interfere. Effect: No income directly from trade, increase in Wealth Generation

We're already strong in military affairs and research, so I think we'll be in a good position to benefit from open trade and the specialization it allows.

[X] Internal Trade - Citizens within the State are free to share and discuss technology, but are restricted from sale to actors outside the State. Effect: Small chance of theft via espionage, random boosts to projects

I hate to risk losing some of our possible advantages, but we have taken measures to prevent espionage, and I don't think we can afford to restrict knowledge much in such a small population, lest we lose progress.

[X] Internal Private Production - Private citizens are permitted to establish businesses for the manufacture and sale of weaponry, but only within your internal markets (Note: Depending on weapon ownership laws the only internal market may be the State). Effect: Weapons cheaper, but may end up with more than desired

This sounds like the most efficient choice. Additionally, selling guns is a pretty good political tool.

[X] Restricted Expression - Sometimes you need to hear when you're screwing up and you don't particularly feel like putting the boot down most of the time, but there are some things you just shouldn't say. CURRENT MODEL

There are magic phrases, pictures, ideas, and even geometries in this setting, which cause a wide variety of entertaining but ultimately tragic effects on people who observe and share them. As much as I personally like free expression, I think it's a terrible idea in the age of strife. That said, these are meta concerns. In-character we've already seen one man talk our home into open rebellion, and just started hanging out with an entire social group of his peers.

[X] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire

For much the same reason that we should limit expression, we can't have members of our society elevated above legal repercussion. The democracy desire is a pain, but the improved security is worth it.

[X] Restricted Weapons - Weapons for personal defence and hunting can be owned by private citizens. Effect: Internal weapons market and sub-militia can be mobilized for defence if have weaponry not assigned to militia
 
Last edited:
A word of warring the Dragonflies are a bunch of nobles we might want to consider privileged as both a concession to them along with the decreased attrition rate it will give our academics one of our greatest advantages. We can move to higher equality latter.
 
Last edited:
[X] Strategic Resource - The State controls the production and distribution of food. CURRENT MODEL
[X] Tariffs - Rather that controlling trade directly, you will simply tax it and let the merchants and entrepreneurs figure out the details. Effect: Moderate income from trade, moderate number of trade deals
[X] External Trade - If someone is willing to pay and the technology isn't otherwise restricted, then your technological products are up for sale. Effect: Moderate chance of theft via espionage, random boosts to projects, Increased Trade
[x] State Control - People can only make weapons on your explicit say so CURRENT MODEL
[X] Open Expression - When people start getting together in large groups and saying whatever they want, they start getting ideas. Effect: Increased happiness, increased enemy espionage chances, research bonuses, increased democracy desire
[X] Equal - The law is the law no matter who you are, rich or poor. Effect: Increased Wealth Generation, increased democracy desire
[X] Restricted Weapons - Weapons for personal defence and hunting can be owned by private citizens. Effect: Internal weapons market and sub-militia can be mobilized for defence if have weaponry not assigned to militia
 
Back
Top