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A Simple Transaction I

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Chronic said:
Can Retinue really contrive equably ridiculous Synergies for our companions skillsets? Advancing at one fourth of an exponential growth is still exponential after all.
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I don't think it's about having them catch up to us, so much is it the Synergy of having higher potential companions. You care basically making them mini prog cursebearers, except they have no curses.

Imagine a 5th coalescence Gisena. How much could she mitigate our Curses by herself? Would enemy mages kill themselves at the sight of her? Could she in turn empower us? Could she then Nullify our limits, returning to us some of the growth we gave her? Is there a limit to how high she can go? What rules can exist for someone who can Nullify the rules themselves. Though maybe he power doesn't get that conceptual.

Imagine if we stumble upon a combat cursebearer. With how difficult it is for them to grow, would they join our Retinue in order to be able to.?

I'm really hoping this quest will have other Cursebearers in it, as potential allies and enemies.

For all those wanting the Imperial Praxis, with Retinue we can add a particularly skilled user to the party! Get a second hand view to all the Praxis' mysteries!
 
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Rihaku said:
True Wish - You may only employ the True Wish defensively unless the Accursed feels you have earned it. Earning it is very difficult. Used defensively, the Accursed will decisively resolve even the direst of situations in your favor. This is as good a guarantee of safety as exists in creation, for no entity you encounter in your travels will be even remotely capable of challenging the Accursed. The elder horrors of the omniverse could turn their unbridled might against you, but sheltering under his aegis you would not feel so much as a breeze.
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Rihaku said:
[ ] Plenary Brand - ....You automatically attract the attention of everyone who perceives you, and your rough capabilities are made apparent to them, to whatever degree they can reasonably comprehend.
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I wouldn't actually want to PLAY this combo, but it does seem like a kind of hilarious way to broadcast Do. Not. Fuck. With. Me. Yes, I realize the Plenary Brand doesn't work like that, but still.
 
Rihaku said:
You already have the massive greed of being a Progression-Type Cursebearer with 5 Curses; why push it?



I don't know if we'll get to Elder God Demonbane-beating levels in the first world, but a mecha pilot is rarely useless! Since... their skills translate to anything requiring hand-eye coordination! And you can build (or steal?) her a mech if you really want.
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Speculation for opposition to Hunger: Fear of getting hit by Nameless tier heroic passions and the ensuing social penalties combined with Doom of the Tyrant.

And skills translating to anything requiring hand-eye coordination? Extrapolating from that, Giving her retinue and King's Scepter seals would basically give her precision exceeding surgical robots, with all the medical and otherwise applications.
 
Wolfy said:
Ahh, maxing out Appearance. Truly an exemplar Exalted character.
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It's more that Sorceress Form boosts APP more than CHA and MAN, especially without a relevant Grace. Gisena's base form (before she attained Third) was probably something like CHA 3 MAN 3 APP 4.

Sickul said:
Imagine if we stumble upon a combat cursebearer. With how difficult it is for them to grow, would they join our Retinue in order to be able to.?
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You can't Retinue other Cursebearers.

It's beneath their dignity!

Conjured Blade said:
Speculation for opposition to Hunger: Fear of getting hit by Nameless tier heroic passions and the ensuing social penalties combined with Doom of the Tyrant.

And skills translating to anything requiring hand-eye coordination? Extrapolating from that, Giving her retinue and King's Scepter seals would basically give her precision exceeding surgical robots, with all the medical and otherwise applications.
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Hunger's boost to visceral pleasures is mostly a good thing for the hero. It's not remotely close to the Spoiled Heroic Passion.
 
Wolfy said:
They don't need to be our peers, they just need to advance. Imagine Diagram Lich as an example; having x3 Quickening instead of x2 won't make them much stronger, but it will make our training that much more fruitful(and Decimator, but what can you do). We are trying to make supporting character better at supporting us, not have them be our combat peers. We are sacrificing linear growth to create exponential one.

Also immunity to being betrayed is useful for a Tyrant.
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Thats another thing I have issues with. Past Rihaku quest evidence indicates that people making the effort to pick up more social links than the minimum is unlikely. Not when there are powerleveling options in the same vote and as a Progression type there will be many. Especially since the Avenger is not Nameless, who learned from his dad to empower himself by mooching of others, but a proper determinator in the style of Odyssial. And with Tyrant crippling our ability to function within society. I suspect that we cannot be relief on to make optimal use of retinue, which would likely involve seeking out optimal vassals with extraordinarily powerful personal modifiers in their personal specialties and spending time and effort winning their loyalty. We can't count on such people falling into ourlap outside of lesser Remittances, and there will always be a trade off.
 
Chronic said:
And with Tyrant crippling our ability to function within society. I suspect that we cannot be relief on to make optimal use of retinue, which would likely involve seeking out optimal vassals with extraordinarily powerful personal modifiers in their personal specialties and spending time and effort winning their loyalty.
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That certainly could be the case! Hunger, Talon, or Relinquishment are all potentially good semi-substitutes with their own strengths as well.
 
Well that's good about Hunger. Still think it's worse than it appears on the surface. Sure training is slower but you can train in a Time Chamber. You can't really reliably fight to the death in one, unless it's something like Jotunheim that was available to Nameless.

Like I said before it seems tailor made for Slumber. Gotta get the most outta those waking hours! And with Slumber you can't make much use of Time Dilation anyway.
 
Plan vacillation.

[x]Plan Palpatine
-[x]King's Scepter
-[x]Seven Seals
-[x]Retinue
-[x]Forbear's Blade
-[x]Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt
 
Rihaku said:
Hunger's boost to visceral pleasures is mostly a good thing for the hero. It's not remotely close to the Spoiled Heroic Passion.
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That sounds pretty interesting. Not only is it a significant boost to our advancement speed, but it can also function as a form of therapy. The Hero had burned his self away on the pyre of vengeance and there is little else left in its wake, but this can help him relearn the simple joys of life.
 
Ugh. More indecisiveness on my part

[x]Plan Palpatine V2
-[x]King's Scepter
-[x]Seven Seals
-[x]Hunger
-[x]Forbear's Blade
-[x]Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt
 
Conjured Blade said:
Ugh. More indecisiveness on my part

[x]Plan Palpatine V2
-[x]King's Scepter
-[x]Seven Seals
-[x]Hunger
-[x]Forbear's Blade
-[x]Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt
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You can simply edit or delete the previous posts you know if they are just the votes.

Edit:
@Unelemental

You may want to post the entire Transcendent Shonen murderhobo plan. Because for some reason the tally isn't counting your vote for Acceretion.
 
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[X] Plan Main-Gauche
-[X] The Sword That Ends The World
-[X] Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt
-[X] Talon
-[X] Forebear's Blade
-[X] Accretion

You're the sword, she's the dagger. While you figure out how to use yours, she keeps you fed and safe with hers. No anti-synergy with Accretion since you're not the one with Talon.
 
Rihaku said:
Hunger's boost to visceral pleasures is mostly a good thing for the hero. It's not remotely close to the Spoiled Heroic Passion.
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Huh, I thought Hunger was basically Heroic Passions+Sword, but now it's just the pluses of Heroic Passions with the pluses of Sword?!?

I did wonder if Heroic Passions in the previous game boosted our BP growth, since it was described as 'Making our soul bigger so we can fit more power' and then you later mentioned that the drawbacks were designed to either power us up, power the heroine up, or to screw over Zang Kong. (With the exception of the obviously terrible Talentless).

Though I wonder if Talentless would have prohibited or even penalized Praxis selection? Cause that would have been basically another free Orb.
 
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Sickul said:
Well that's good about Hunger. Still think it's worse than it appears on the surface. Sure training is slower but you can train in a Time Chamber. You can't really reliably fight to the death in one, unless it's something like Jotunheim that was available to Nameless.
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You can if you have a mobile time dilation effect! Like... Haltsuphrect's Quickening, for example!

Unelemental said:
That sounds pretty interesting. Not only is it a significant boost to our advancement speed, but it can also function as a form of therapy. The Hero had burned his self away on the pyre of vengeance and there is little else left in its wake, but this can help him relearn the simple joys of life.
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Yup! Though it may lead to oversleeping at times.

Box Lunch said:
[X] Plan Main-Gauche
-[X] The Sword That Ends The World
-[X] Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt
-[X] Talon
-[X] Forebear's Blade
-[X] Accretion

You're the sword, she's the dagger. While you figure out how to use yours, she keeps you fed and safe with hers. No anti-synergy with Accretion since you're not the one with Talon.
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Gisena would have better odds of protecting you early than Catherine. Catherine's mostly late-game.
 
Crimson Moon said:
@Orm Embar you disappoint me, man. You could have gone Even Further Beyond with your build, creating a Self-Evident Truth. But that's fine, I'll show you what it means to Meme someone.
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I considered Talon but decided that relinquishing Relinquishment was a little too extreme. Go too hard, and you can't go home. A shame, since you can't have a proper Lord Reaper cosplay without something resembling his Razor. Hunger is peak Alexander, though, since for him combat counts as a visceral thrill.

Anyway, a three to five hundred percent increase in growth rate as a Progression type is insane, and pairs well with our build. To paraphrase Fear and Loathing, "We can't stop here, this is Curse country!" Everywhere is Curse country, whatever continent we're on especially. If we go for an isolated training arc, we risk an Apocryphal proc. Plus, the projected mental state for someone who chose Vendetta's pretty grim. Better to slap Hunger on the hero to motivate and cheer him up than expose him to Gisena's nihilism. With strategic displays of Hunger it can be upgraded with Accretion, pushing the snowball past the sound barrier.

Retinue's stronger late in the game if we make good decisions, but there's no guarantee of that or of reaching the late-game even with Scepter. We're a Cursebearer with five Curses. No one is safe, nothing is sacred. Is the 25% hit to our Progression even immediately recouped if a Retinue member dies? To say nothing of the toll another companion's death might take on his psychological state, this man's backstory is a trauma conga line.
 
Maybe I'm jaded but a part of me does think Catherine might be the pick based on meta reasons. Rihaku generally wants the vote to be fair, and Catherine is sandwiched between a prior quest character that was teased to great excitement earlier and a lich which were hugely popular as a rule from EFB. Catherine has to be amazing to make it a fair vote.

Also all these Sword voters are taking crazy pills with their vote. You want the Sword you better get that lich to accelerate learning it so it can get to a level that it matters.

You really want the Praxis?

Seven Seals
Prolessarch
Intensify

As a bonus the lich can be an effective meat shield while you struggle to figure it out, but combine those two and you might be able to speed up your growth enough to figure it out. Guess Seven Seals is locked, but don't worry, you can teach the lich the Seven Seals.
 
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Rihaku said:
Yup! Though it may lead to oversleeping at times.
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I can understand this sentiment!
Orm Embar said:
I considered Talon but decided that relinquishing Relinquishment was a little too extreme. Go too hard, and you can't go home. A shame, since you can't have a proper Lord Reaper cosplay without something resembling his Razor. Hunger is peak Alexander, though, since for him combat counts as a visceral thrill.

Anyway, a three to five hundred percent increase in growth rate as a Progression type is insane, and pairs well with our build. To paraphrase Fear and Loathing, "We can't stop here, this is Curse country!" Everywhere is Curse country. If we go for an isolated training arc, we risk an Apocryphal proc. Plus, the projected mental state for someone who chose Vendetta's pretty grim. Better to slap Hunger on the hero to motivate and cheer him up than expose him to Gisena's nihilism. With strategic displays of Hunger it can be upgraded with Accretion, pushing the snowball past the sound barrier.

Retinue's stronger late in the game if we make good decisions, but there's no guarantee of that or of reaching the late-game even with Scepter. We're a Cursebearer with five Curses. No one is safe, nothing is sacred. Is the 25% hit to our Progression even immediately recouped if a Retinue member dies? To say nothing of the toll another companion's death might on his psychological state, this man's backstory is a trauma conga line.
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There's also the Nameless option.

Although I don't actually support it. Since we went for it last quest. I'm rather against Retinue in spite of it's clear and obvious advantages because I'd like to see a more 'solo' quest this time, more minimalist and more focused.
 
Sickul said:
As a bonus the lich can be an effective meat shield while you struggle to figure it out, but combine those two and you might be able to speed up your growth enough to figure it out. Guess Seven Seals is locked, but don't worry, you can teach the lich the Seven Seals.
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You can teach him about it, but he wouldn't actually be able to use it... Soul Evocations are character unique, after all.
 
[X] Plan Mage Crew
-[X] The Sword That Ends the World
-[X] Seven Seals
-[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
-[X] Prolessarch [2 Remittances]

Here's my Plan. The main take away is that having a Retinue is not going to ever be as useful as one of these prime companions, ones that can both mitigate out our curses and boost our growth while protecting us during that initial weak period. They both have the capacity to grow at rates that exceed anything else we're likely to get early game while having genuinely interesting backstorys and future development.
 
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