Rihaku
The Internet
You can kill monsters, you know!
The easiest way by far to get a findross-equivalnt substance would probably be through Accretion.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
You can kill monsters, you know!
The easiest way by far to get a findross-equivalnt substance would probably be through Accretion.
- Location
- USA
I'm tempted to trade the Forebear's Blade for Catherine with all these hints Rihaku is dropping. But picking 2 companions and Retinue seems insane even with the power from King's Sceptre.
I think Gisena with Retinue could be amazing though, if we are able to substantially increase her growth she could do a lot for mitigating our Curses.
I think Gisena with Retinue could be amazing though, if we are able to substantially increase her growth she could do a lot for mitigating our Curses.
KidFromPallet
Pokemon Fan
- Location
- Pallet Town
It might, yeah? Like, it's got really goon conceptual effects, don't get me wrong, but it's not really what we need right now. Both Praxis and the Sceptor will have conceptual Biggatons covered, eclipsing Accretion's role in the long term.
And in the short term, Seals just completely styles on Accretion's 2-3 semi-random effects by dint of sheer utility.
Like, sure, Accretion might make the Hero fight a bit better, but Seals offers the utility of carrying an entire campsite on our back, with a tent Sealed against all but the greatest weather and a bedroll that's been Sealed with the comfort of the finest bed available. Seals for vigor allowing the Hero to get by on an hour or two less sleep, Seals on clothes to ensure they're a comfortable temperature no matter where you are, seals on traps or fishing lures to allow easier hunting, Seals to secure a campsite for the night, etc. The utility is extraordinarily overwhelming compared to Accretion, with about the same chance of survival in the early game.
And in the mid to late game, well: Higher level Seals that could create a pocket realm of accelerated time, the possibility of creating an eventual infinitely vast plane filled with all manner of life that grows faster than our Curse of Decimation can consume, Seals we apply to entire worlds that conceptually annihilate evil even in our absence, the possibilities are endless!
Seals just works really, really well as a grab bag of utility effects that we can combine with other systems to devastating effect.
Not to mention the possibility of using Seals for Curse mitigation is mentioned in the options but using Accretion for such a thing is not, implying that Seals might do a better job in that particular area.
Plus, Accretion probably takes a lot longer to "train", as you need to accomplish legendary feats and then have people recognize those legendary feats, which might be a problem in more low tech settings where it can take weeks or months for word to travel far, and years afterward for the story to actually become cemented in the gestalt consciousness of the realm's inhabitants.
Plus, it pretty much requires that we get out and do stuff to get stronger, which is the exact problem that the Ring of Hunger has, if lesser in scope.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Hrm. So taking that into account, the Dichotomy between Seals and Accretion looks like this with my Remittance setup?
Seals: Immediate Mitigation capabilities for us, less mitigation capability for Gisena over the longer term, Strong Access to Utility Effects, Physical Enhancers, Crafting, Nebulously defined Esoteric Effects, etc.
Accretion: High End Platemail defense keeping us from dying against anything that isn't strong enough to annihilate. A Zanpakuto/Noble Phantasm for us to cultivate, ability to get Curse mitigation and/or boost Gisena's mitigation even further depending on our playstyle.
Seals: Immediate Mitigation capabilities for us, less mitigation capability for Gisena over the longer term, Strong Access to Utility Effects, Physical Enhancers, Crafting, Nebulously defined Esoteric Effects, etc.
Accretion: High End Platemail defense keeping us from dying against anything that isn't strong enough to annihilate. A Zanpakuto/Noble Phantasm for us to cultivate, ability to get Curse mitigation and/or boost Gisena's mitigation even further depending on our playstyle.
KidFromPallet
Pokemon Fan
- Location
- Pallet Town
Well, given that no one has echoed my thoughts about Relinquishment or voted for my plan, and A Simple Transaction is drawing more support, I might as well swap over. It's got Sword + Seals, which were my big ticket items, and I got convinced about the value of Gisena + Retinue, so I'm fine with that. While I'd prefer Relinquishment over Forebearer's Blade, the Blade does give us an immediate power boost and will most likely help Seal growth, so I'm willing to support it.
[X] A Simple Transaction
[X] The Sword That Ends the World
[X] Seven Seals
[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
[X] Forebear's Blade
[X] Retinue
[X] A Simple Transaction
[X] The Sword That Ends the World
[X] Seven Seals
[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
[X] Forebear's Blade
[X] Retinue
- Location
- USA
The downside of Hunger is a real thing. I think leading anything is going to get much more difficult given the slew of vices Hunger is sure to impart. Think about it, it adds a majority of the sins pretty much. How much harder is it going to be to get people to respect and follow you?
Coming straight from EFB it should be obvious how good Retinue is. Suizhen ended up being the Sword that Shattered the Heavens there. The trick is to use it sparingly and make sure you have it on people who have unique advantages. That's what ultimately makes it hard for me to justify getting Catherine even though Rihaku thinks the thread as a whole would regret it. I think based upon my own thinking of Retinue only Gisena is unique enough to justify a Retinue slot.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Plot shenanigans and prodigy level ability to pilot the kind of tech that would be relevant in the Rihakuverse are what make her unique, the rest depends on if we take an apprenticeshipish route, teach her Seven Seals or not.
Extending on this, everyone has their own affinity: Ours is imprisonment, we do not know what her hypothetical affinity is.
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Rihaku
The Internet
Indeed. If you let her train with the blade extensively enough, she'll awaken her Soul Evocation, the nature of which you do not know, but which will be extremely strong! At least as powerful as the hero's own.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Extending on this line of thought even further, 25% of a progression type cursebearer's growth applied to a Prodigy of Rihakuverse Mech/Jet/whatever vehicle in question Piloting probably leads to a holy shit tier monstrosity.
KidFromPallet
Pokemon Fan
- Location
- Pallet Town
Nah, I wasn't talking about Retinue, I've accepted that it's a good choice and am voting for it. What I was doing was comparing Accretion's "training" method to Hunger's, in that Accretion pretty much requires us to go out and do things to get stronger, because for every Sasaki Koujiro who can train his way up you've got hundreds of different King Arthurs or Hercules or Gilgameshes, for whom the primary training method towards Accretion would be going out and doing things, thus solidifying their legends.
Genesys
(Discrete Mokona)
- Location
- California
Well, I was more referring to Decimation with Time Chambers. I suspect it would be difficult to be safe in a similar concentration of life energy of monsters compared to people, plus monsters don't usually clump together as much unless they have a form of community? And guaranteeing we had say, one continent of people-free space loaded with enough monsters to Decimate would probably be time consuming, to say the least.
[X] A Simple Transaction
[X] The Sword That Ends the World
[X] Seven Seals
[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
[X] Forebear's Blade
[X] Retinue
I was thinking of a variant of this vote with Prolessarch instead of Gisena + Retinue in the hope that a Bro Lich could help us develop Praxis faster.
Plus, Prolessarch is a Lich even after his loss of temporal power (and basically immortal besides), so he's hardly a chump in combat. He has explicit synergy with Seven Seals and it's stated to be a loyal friend, which eliminates the need of Retinue to ensure loyalty.
Unfortunately, Praxis likely falls under a far too esoteric branch much like Accretion.
Now that the clearly less important matter is dealt with...
@Orm Embar you disappoint me, man. You could have gone Even Further Beyond with your build, creating a Self-Evident Truth. But that's fine, I'll show you what it means to Meme someone.
[] (Fake) Lord Reaper
[] The King's Scepter
[] Accretion
[] Forebear's Blade
[] Hunger
[] Talon
Behold the Ultimate Murderhobo! When all you can do is eat away at reality, you might as well prepare for the biggest buffet ever!
[X] The Sword That Ends the World
[X] Seven Seals
[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
[X] Forebear's Blade
[X] Retinue
I was thinking of a variant of this vote with Prolessarch instead of Gisena + Retinue in the hope that a Bro Lich could help us develop Praxis faster.
Plus, Prolessarch is a Lich even after his loss of temporal power (and basically immortal besides), so he's hardly a chump in combat. He has explicit synergy with Seven Seals and it's stated to be a loyal friend, which eliminates the need of Retinue to ensure loyalty.
Unfortunately, Praxis likely falls under a far too esoteric branch much like Accretion.
Now that the clearly less important matter is dealt with...
@Orm Embar you disappoint me, man. You could have gone Even Further Beyond with your build, creating a Self-Evident Truth. But that's fine, I'll show you what it means to Meme someone.
[] (Fake) Lord Reaper
[] The King's Scepter
[] Accretion
[] Forebear's Blade
[] Hunger
[] Talon
Behold the Ultimate Murderhobo! When all you can do is eat away at reality, you might as well prepare for the biggest buffet ever!
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
I mean isn't that a good thing. Instead of spending our time grinding in isolation, we can actually go out, deal with the plot, fight our enemies and do awesome shit.
Hunger + Accelertion synergize pretty damn well.
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Who says a fake cannot surpass the original?! We only need to gather enough content for one more Lesser Remittance in order to have our cake and eat it too.
Rihaku
The Internet
Would you prefer the fates had the nigh-unlimited latitude and power required to keep up with a Thrice-Great generating that many BPs? Plus, it's not like you gave them a lot of time to work with. A few months' delay is nothing to the Fates. Perhaps by the time the Age of Heroes was in full swing they would have been perfectly up to your level.
Decimation doesn't care about type of life, only about total life energy. If you live on a planet with only animals and trees then you'd be just as healthy as if you lived on a civilized world.
He's about as dangerous in combat as a fast, intelligent zombie without weak spots. Though he is incredibly hard to put down, he's not much better than Catherine and probably not as good as Gisena overall, since she hoses enemy mages.
Plus, even if you tried to grind isolated, you'd still live in interesting times! Grinding is just asking for trouble...
Last game ended with us buffing blue girl to the gils and letting her solo Fates. Besides, if you are at point where you are advancing too fast for your allies to follow you are already winning anyway.
Hmm, Gisena's own superhuman social should allow us to Retinue people we otherwise wouldn't, now that I think about it.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
You know what, I convinced myself. Having some kind of ludicrous bullshit tier pilot on hand if we find some ludicrous Demonbane-exceeding tier mech because Rihakuverse is worth having Catherine around. Having a second sealing affinity on par with ours once we train her up has potential, and we can Kuzuki her into a combat monster with King's Scepter tier seals in the meantime.
[x]Plan Palpatine
-[x]King's Scepter
-[x]Seven Seals
-[x]Retinue
-[x]Forbear's Blade
-[x]Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt
[x]Plan Palpatine
-[x]King's Scepter
-[x]Seven Seals
-[x]Retinue
-[x]Forbear's Blade
-[x]Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt
I am not criticizing the last quest, but Retinue and the thread attitude. Last time we assumed that the one stage thing was an absolute statement instead of one dependent on in game entities. I fear we might be making a similar mistake here. What does "Advances with one fourth the potencyof our own" actually mean? It clearly doesn't that they will advance fourth as fast as we will, or you would have written that.
Just as an example, I'm not sure if it would account for one time fortuitous encounters that boost the Avengers skill level. What happens if we discover an outrageous synergy that boosts our primary skill exponentially? Can Retinue really contrive equably ridiculous Synergies for our companions skillsets? Advancing at one fourth of an exponential growth is still exponential after all.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Technology permitting, Catherine doesn't actually have to worry about that. Her personal power and the power of her vehicle/mech can be very different things.
They don't need to be our peers, they just need to advance. Imagine Diagram Lich as an example; having x3 Quickening instead of x2 won't make them much stronger, but it will make our training that much more fruitful(and Decimator, but what can you do). We are trying to make supporting character better at supporting us, not have them be our combat peers. We are sacrificing linear growth to create exponential one.
Also immunity to being betrayed is useful for a Tyrant.
Rihaku
The Internet
I wouldn't say she's superhuman overall, unless you mean plebs who simp for her superhuman Appearance. She's probably like... CHA 4 MAN 4 APP 7?
All character-unique multipliers remain character-unique, but that's true for them as well as you! If they have some innate talent or access to special multipliers, they would benefit from enhanced learning speed that you might not. I do think on balance that Hunger is preferable to Retinue in terms of getting a good start and even well into the midgame. You already have the massive greed of being a Progression-Type Cursebearer with 5 Curses; why push it?
I don't know if we'll get to Elder God Demonbane-beating levels in the first world, but a mecha pilot is rarely useless! Since... their skills translate to anything requiring hand-eye coordination! And you can build (or steal?) her a mech if you really want.
