[X] Fisher King
[X] Golden Hour
[X] Towards Fisher King



SAVE. I am 100% confident that we can get 1 additional pick in the next two weeks. Saving some Arete now makes me confident that we'll be able to afford Pillars after that next fight. I'd love to vote for Elder Sign, but I'm doubtful that the thread will ever vote for Hunger to research the signs himself. The power of that pick is somewhat wasted, imo. Better to grab Honing or Iridescence with the spare pick.
 
It's been a while since I've done a goals analysis post. How are we doing?

Decimators Affliction: We've killed the Armament Fish, not sure how long before we have to worry about Decimator's Affliction again. Foremost Blade is a powerful option at the cost of incentivizing us towards reckless behavior and lowering our odds of successful vengeance. Pillars of Creation can help us mitigate it, diminishes its strength while we're inside, and generate hunger sated targets for us. Finding out what the median means of an unknown dataset is beyond me to say with certainty, but I'll try to speculate. If the dataset of Hunger Sated Targets by difficulty is a histogram with a symmetric distribution, then the median is roughly equivalent to the mean. If the dataset of Hunger Sated targets is a histogram with a skewed distribution, the outliers skew the mean and median so they diverge somewhat. I don't think we have enough information to actually say what reducing the median difficulty of Hunger Sated targets means in practice. Measures of Central Tendency: Mean, Median, and Mode - Statistics By Jim. The Mitigation Duration boost and variety improvements however are pretty helpful especially in conjunction with upgraded Pillars of Creation. Especially if we're willing to try burning our perfect defense for the week to take that even further beyond. I'd seriously consider Fisher King in addition to Artemisinin though.

Aobaru's Terminator: We have an assassin to deal with that can scale like we can. We need to preserve scaling opportunities by any means necessary. Rushing Fisher King is ill advised. Pillars of Creation is extremely tempting and probably worth it if we don't encounter his assassin before our first time using Pillars of Creation. If we do have to worry about Aobaru's assassin before we get to use Pillars of Creation, then Elder Sign or Once and Future II is Optimal. Elder Sign has the advantage that we can research Empyrean Signs ourselves with the benefits of Hunger giving us a venue of scaling. It's not Philosopher's Wreath but oh well. It let's us train without doing stupidly reckless things and that is worth its weight in gold. Especially if we can get Ruling Ring with it. Plus the Empyrean Signs approach the Royal Praxis in terms of power.

Getting Letrezia Out of the Voyaging Realm: She is as always a Nightmare Flight away.

Getting Ourself/Aeira/Aobaru out of the Voyaging Realm: We're about to have this as our next problem, in conjunction perhaps with Aobaru's terminator. Elder Sign may or may not be useful for the route where we ask an Astral Denizen for knowledge on what to expect. OAF II may help us in whatever fight we start. Direct Apocryphal mitigation ensures that if the Apocryphal curse wants to nudge us maliciously when we're dealing with this, it won't be able to do it as hard.

Conquering the Human Sphere: ISH Boosted intelligence/wisdom is a hell of a drug. So is weaponizable Decimator's Affliction from Fisher King. If we get some kind of useful utility pick upgraded by Elder Sign that would also help us conquer the human sphere too I bet. Remember, any utility options acquired for future signs are probably going to be better than supreme enclosure.

Successful Odds of Vengeance: Foremost Blade is foolish for what it does to our incentive structure. Serendipity would be a potent benefit, as would direct mitigation.

Ruling Well: Golden Hour may assist us if we are to rule directly as opposed to puppeting Adorie. Fewer Procs means less collateral damage to our holdings through attrition. Serendipity may make it benefit our holding occasionally. All the pick options can be twisted in this direction on some level. Fisher King gives us more cognitive buffs but is ill advised to take immediately given Aobaru's Terminator as a problem.

Curse Mitigation: Gisena getting Renaissance Woman means we have a lot of options, the question is how do those options fit our goals. There's also Upgraded Pillars of Creation, which is just ridiculous.

Word Count: 661 Words
Glad to see you, I was just hoping you would show up too!
 
In fact, I'm sufficiently determined here that

@BrainInAJar, @Tyrant_Rayne

I'm invoking my markers to request you pursue an Elder Sign ticket if you aren't invoking vetos. Considering the popularity of Pillars of Creation I won't push for the Fisher King Progress option for Decimator's Affliction mitigation though I would still recommend people consider since I'm not sure what reducing the median difficulty would conceivably look like in practice.
 
[X] Fisher King
[X] Golden Hour
[X] Towards Fisher King



SAVE. I am 100% confident that we can get 1 additional pick in the next two weeks. Saving some Arete now makes me confident that we'll be able to afford Pillars after that next fight. I'd love to vote for Elder Sign, but I'm doubtful that the thread will ever vote for Hunger to research the signs himself. The power of that pick is somewhat wasted, imo. Better to grab Honing or Iridescence with the spare pick.
Why are you saving for Pillars when between it and Fisher King, its the more expensive one? Instead of you know, getting it right now and eliminating the risk we will have to scramble on how to find a source of pick? Remember our skewed build means we either have to slaughter untold amounts of mooks or aim for a stronger foe who has a more balanced build and we only have Blood and Rank going for us, with the rest of our Stats and abilities lagging behind.
 
In fact, I'm sufficiently determined here that

@BrainInAJar, @Tyrant_Rayne

I'm invoking my markers to request you pursue an Elder Sign ticket if you aren't invoking vetos. Considering the popularity of Pillars of Creation I won't push for the Fisher King Progress option for Decimator's Affliction mitigation though I would still recommend people consider since I'm not sure what reducing the median difficulty would conceivably look like in practice.

[X] Conjured Blade

The debt has been paid.
 
Why are you saving for Pillars when between it and Fisher King, its the more expensive one? Instead of you know, getting it right now and eliminating the risk we will have to scramble on how to find a source of pick? Remember our skewed build means we either have to slaughter untold amounts of mooks or aim for a stronger foe who has a more balanced build and we only have Blood and Rank going for us, with the rest of our Stats and abilities lagging behind.
Fisher King has immediate benefits, but Pillars has absolutely no effect for another 2 weeks. That's long enough to repeat the Temple Arc. Unless you think that there will be no additional picks over the next two weeks, Pillars is a wasted vote right now.

Anyway, I'm going to support Conjured Blade here because I think the check-ins about our long-term goals are a really valuable part of the discussion and I'm glad to see them return. I'm also happy to see Exalted Spirit finally getting some momentum.
[X] Conjured Blade
 
Why are you saving for Pillars when between it and Fisher King, its the more expensive one? Instead of you know, getting it right now and eliminating the risk we will have to scramble on how to find a source of pick? Remember our skewed build means we either have to slaughter untold amounts of mooks or aim for a stronger foe who has a more balanced build and we only have Blood and Rank going for us, with the rest of our Stats and abilities lagging behind.
We could also get Elder Sign and be able to train our way towards more signs, with the odd numbered signs being doubled in potency. The Baseline version of the Empyrean signs is modestly below the Royal Praxis in terms of power. With the odd numbered signs getting doubled potency, that means that if the Royal Praxis still exceeds the Empyrean Signs, it'll be by a Razor thin Margin. A magic system only mildly weaker than the Royal Praxis, that we can train with the full benefits of the Ring of Hunger being applied to it(Edit: Making it Easier to train than the Royal Praxis).

We also still have Hastening the Acquisition of Signs as an option for when we run into the right kind of enemy.
[ ] Hasten Signs [19 Arete] - Hunger will hasten his acquisition of the Fourth and Fifth Empyreal Signs from the Cloak of Sky. This has the potential to grant immense power and capability, or access to a versatile effect somewhat greater in utility than the Second and Third Signs.

Hastening the Fourth Sign costs 1 pick and 7 Arete.
Hastening the Fifth Sign cost 2 picks and 12 Arete.

To qualify for a hastened sign, Hunger must meet minimum levels of Int, Wis and Cha, and slay an enemy of appropriate type (the enemy this time was Bearic, Grandmaster of the Blue). Exceptional levels of Int and Wits can also discount the cost of hastening. These discounts if they exist have already been applied this option. You may also get Signs for free from Adorie's research, but that would take a lot longer. This way she can work on Signs even further above these in power!

And imagine Armor of Midnight with DOUBLE conceptual potency. A ludicrous amount of bang for our rank sacrificial buck. 2000 protection? Stage 2+ Curse mitigation?

Fifth Sign: Armor of Midnight [Evening Sky] - The Cloak of Sky is the heavens and all their intervening vastness unfurled, yet that which was the Shroud of Evening has not forgotten the form of its predecessor. He who dons the Armor of Midnight becomes nigh-invincible to harm or ill, for the aegis of his panoply is as vast and unconquerable as the universal void.

Returns now the Evening Sky - not merely of twilight, but of all darkness, king!


Casting time: 10 minutes
Duration: 8 hours
Cooldown: 1 week
Reagents: If below Rank 11, burn .1 Rank, otherwise burn .01 Rank.

The wielder is nigh-invincible. Treat his Protection as effectively infinite for purposes of defending against any form of harm incapable of destroying the entire universe, otherwise treat his Protection as increased by one thousand. Non-damaging hostile conditions and unwanted esoteric conditions have their impact mitigated by three orders of magnitude or by a degree appropriate to the effect if it had attempted to target all interplanetary space within the entire universe, whichever mitigation is greater. This grants effective Stage II mitigation of all Curses while active. Returns the appearance of the Cloak of Sky to that of the Evening Sky while active; the disguise function of Skyveil may not be used for the duration.
 
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By the way @Conjured Blade the blurb for towards fisher king is wrong. Should we go with the fisher mitigation then fisher king should only be 4 Arete and zero picks, as we already put 3 picks towards it. It should be able to be bought with both signs and exalted spirit.
 
Also, technically picking Pillars doesn't do nothing for the next two picks. It still contributes by being the pre-requisite for good stuff like Pathway to Idyll, and potentially a sequel EFB like OAF II.
 
Fisher King has immediate benefits, but Pillars has absolutely no effect for another 2 weeks. That's long enough to repeat the Temple Arc. Unless you think that there will be no additional picks over the next two weeks, Pillars is a wasted vote right now.
So you bank your chances? We either curb stomp the opposition with Blood and Rank resulting in a drought of picks unless we slaughter untold amounts of mooks or we fight "peer" opponents with only the aformentioned Blood and Rank being equal and everything else being laughably weaker. Its a feast or famine situation. I say get the Pillars now instead of worrying where we will find the required amount of fodder or just the right opponent that is now going to beat us up in the process.
 
Fisher King's fishing stat-ups would only apply if the fight was genuinely fishing, which Rihaku explicitly that stated that the Armament-Fish (as an example) was not. So it might not be as helpful as you first think.
 
Fisher King's fishing stat-ups would only apply if the fight was genuinely fishing, which Rihaku explicitly that stated that the Armament-Fish (as an example) was not. So it might not be as helpful as you first think.

Outside of Fishing it's only helpful cognitively and for Decimator's Affliction mitigation. Still not bad but I wouldn't put everything into getting it when we've got Aobaru's Terminator to worry about.
 
Heard it in Discord or something? (Edit: Where do you get that from?)

Basic math.
You've received 3 picks from the Armament Fish. You have about 14 to 15 Arete. If you manage to generate enough Arete for Once and Future II / Pillars of Creation, I'll add it to this selection, otherwise you'll have to pick from among these options!
The fish gave us 3 picks
[ ] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete] - The hand that steadies the rod, rules the world.

Or perhaps that is not always so. If not, then make it so.

Fish, even if it cannot be fished.


Costs five picks total. One of the Defining Advancements that could have been unlocked by [Feat: Crown].

Fisher king costs 5. We spent the whole 3 and 12 Arete on it.
[ ] Fisher King - Discounts the completion of Fisher King by 8 Arete and 2 picks. It now only requires 4 Arete and 1 pick to complete. Do not take this as precedent for future Arete:mitigation ratios.

The mitigation reduces the cost by another 2 picks and 8 Arete. The remaining cost should be 4 Arete and 0 picks.
 
I don't know why people want the Fisher King discount when we won't be using it's most important aspects for quite a while. +5 Stats and +50% Rank gain are good but nothing to write home about compared to Pillars; which compensates for the by removing all our conditions anyway. The Mitigation it provides shouldn't be underestimated either. Getting something like Artemisinin together with with Fisher King should actually let us make appropriate Fish-type opponents for at least a while.

Pillar safely gives us the picks we need to keep scaling and gives us the necessary downtime to start fully utilizing some of our abilities to the fullest, nevermind the benefits Gisena gets now that she can progress herself! It's a super key pick, especially if still want to buy Ruling Ring in any reasonable amount of time as well. No need to hunt for specific foes that fulfill nebulous requirements, we can just conjure them out of the aether! Very convenient.
SAVE. I am 100% confident that we can get 1 additional pick in the next two weeks. Saving some Arete now makes me confident that we'll be able to afford Pillars after that next fight. I'd love to vote for Elder Sign, but I'm doubtful that the thread will ever vote for Hunger to research the signs himself. The power of that pick is somewhat wasted, imo. Better to grab Honing or Iridescence with the spare pick.
You are actually committing a miscalculation, in my view:
*Pillars of Creation** is unlocked and can be purchased during any reasonably plausible Experience spend point for 1 pick, 25 Arete.
See, Pillars is not available at every spending point like it was reserved; it's only during spending points where getting it would be "reasonably plausible". This completely opaque secondary requirement makes me unwilling to to gamble on getting another possible spending point for it at a reasonable time. Given were are in-fact leaving the magic-ridden Voyaging Realm, we might not get an opportunity for it for quite a while.
In fact, I'm sufficiently determined here that

@BrainInAJar, @Tyrant_Rayne

I'm invoking my markers to request you pursue an Elder Sign ticket if you aren't invoking vetos. Considering the popularity of Pillars of Creation I won't push for the Fisher King Progress option for Decimator's Affliction mitigation though I would still recommend people consider since I'm not sure what reducing the median difficulty would conceivably look like in practice.
[X] Elder Sign

Sure, but I won't vote for Fisher-King since I think Artemisinin is to valuable to skip.
 
Could be that the mitigation is only supposed to reduce the cost by 1 pick...
[ ] Towards Fisher King [Variable depending on mitigation choices] - You can either contribute 12 Arete, 2 picks towards Fisher King, leaving only 1 Arete, one pick remaining to finish it, or with the Fisher King Decimation Grand Nullification option you can complete it now for only 5 Arete, 1 pick.

But reading the towards option it looks like Rihaku thinks that we still have 3 picks left on fisher. @Rihaku can we get some clarification on this?
 
[x]Fisher King
[x]Direct Mitigation
[x]Elder Sign
[x]Exalted Spirit
[x]Towards Fisher King

Someone must stand against the united Pillars armies! ...It's just, If i get called to the front lines I'm totally bailing! Other than that, I'm very reliable in the 'moral support' category.
 
Let's not forget that we have Adorie. Adorie+Ring-Boosted Hunger would make considerable progress on Empyrean SIgn research.
I don't think it would be that simple. Unless they are working together, their works might not add up perfectly because they might pursue the same threads unless they can somehow communicate over long distances. We are planning on leaving for the Human Sphere and the whole point of Adorie is that she prevents Apocryphal Curse from targeting our Voyaging Realm assets while she manages them. That part also eats up her own time researching. And the memes about downtime should tell us how much time Hunger himself would be researching.
 
I'm wondering how the Arete Miners are feeling after this update. Discussion multiplier seems strong so far (especially with the Gisena reactions counted towards this decision point). Might be a good time to synchronize multiple omake drops.

Pillars is not available at every spending point like it was reserved; it's only during spending points where getting it would be "reasonably plausible".
Huh. In that case, my vote will depend on the verdict when Rihaku clarifies the cost of Fisher King if we get the discount.
 
I don't think it would be that simple. Unless they are working together, their works might not add up perfectly because they might pursue the same threads unless they can somehow communicate over long distances. We are planning on leaving for the Human Sphere and the whole point of Adorie is that she prevents Apocryphal Curse from targeting our Voyaging Realm assets while she manages them. That part also eats up her own time researching. And the memes about downtime should tell us how much time Hunger himself would be researching.

Call me an optimist but I still think it's a product of the Ring's Incentive structure. Though the Hunger Adorie collaboration angle you brought up is fair. We or Gisena would need to research a magical form of long range communication to make that happen.
 
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