Let's not pretend we haven't been avoiding 4-picks - and we'll continue avoiding them like a goddamn plague. For all the risk memes (and truisms, tbf, even though a lot of whys and other details get lost and smoothed out by memery) the thread is pretty particular in how it wants its risks; in small % dosages, stretched out over a period of time, with plentiful opportunities to mitigate it into the ground by spamming arete.

The thread does not like risks we cannot buy our way out off by spamming arete. The thread is not going to go for a 4-pick fights with over-50% death chance, Vanreir seared himself into our subconscious pretty effectively.
That's all well and good, I guess, but it necessarily also means that F-Blade is limited by our desire to Not Die. IMO it's entirely possible that we might never intentionally use it at all for the entire remaining duration of the quest.
 
That's all well and good, I guess, but it necessarily also means that F-Blade is limited by our desire to Not Die. IMO it's entirely possible that we might never intentionally use it at all for the entire remaining duration of the quest.
Yeah, this really doesn't matter.

The point is most of its value in getting 3-picks mitigation eventually, not in 4 picks mitigation today.

There is a bunch of other good options on the table, and the call of SAVE is likewise pretty real, so it is fine. I am just feeling that such a potent mitigation route is not getting its due in the debates.
 
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That would be one of my main concerns with it, if we got the rest of the quest with never getting a 4 pick fight I'd be happy. Outside of a situation like chains where it might be forced on us, it's hard to see us getting one. And then we'll probably already be sated anyway.
 
Man, still don't know how muscle wizard ever lost this vote. With the realm of the evening though, the hour isn't yet too late to transition! We can still take our body as a Panoply artifact and really get the whole punch show on the road.
Ok, this has NEARLY convinced me to skip all the updates just to vote against it.

Sadly my integrity stops me from voting until I'm caught up :(
 
Any preferences on what Gisena should be doing if we ever catch wind of that magic creature, 'spare time?'
We may actually be approaching this theoretical idea! I'm with Hirorubie, information first. Next, going down my checklist from Exalted, we already have exotic attack vectors, and pretty good combat stats, so I suppose I'd want to buff up the social options, with some Manipulation and Manipulation accessories.
 
An Eye of Ruin could potentially provide +Manipulation advancements, particular if it we hook it into All-Defeating Stance! A possible reasoning for why would be, like, letting us 'see' the threads of Ruin extending from us/the blade out into the world, seeking out plots to disrupt.
 
An Eye of Ruin could potentially provide +Manipulation advancements, particular if it we hook it into All-Defeating Stance! A possible reasoning for why would be, like, letting us 'see' the threads of Ruin extending from us/the blade out into the world, seeking out plots to disrupt.
I'd love to have some of that Gisena vision, imagine looking at a mirror and seeing daddy Accurseds special message!
 
I don't think saying we avoid 4-picks like the plague is exactly right, we only avoid them when they are clearly labeled as such! Otherwise, any oblique hints are usually ignored in favor of shinies. Hell, people wanted to Absorb the Tower despite being literally labeled as bait! Foremost Blade will absolutely come up, whether we want to or not; Apocryphal would ensure it if nothing else.
 
I don't think saying we avoid 4-picks like the plague is exactly right, we only avoid them when they are clearly labeled as such! Otherwise, any oblique hints are usually ignored in favor of shinies. Hell, people wanted to Absorb the Tower despite being literally labeled as bait! Foremost Blade will absolutely come up, whether we want to or not; Apocryphal would ensure it if nothing else.
Thats the thing though, if we aren't sated the thread has shown it isn't willing to play around though, so we'll already be sated for a large swath of these possible 4 pick encounters.
 
The sensible choice seems so easy here. And yet I can't shake the feeling going hard on arete mitgating curses will make something magical happen eventually...
 
You've received 3 picks from the Armament Fish
[ ] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete] - The hand that steadies the rod, rules the world.


Costs five picks total
When we first paid for Fisher King, we paid 3/5 Picks, and 12/24 Arete.

We got two picks for fighting Augustine:
You have defeated Augustine, the Lady Protector and acquired 2 picks

That means we should be able to buy Fisher King outright for 2P/12A

[ ] Towards Fisher King [Variable depending on mitigation choices] - You can either contribute 12 Arete, 2 picks towards Fisher King, leaving only 1 Arete, one pick remaining to finish it, or with the Fisher King Decimation Grand Nullification option you can complete it now for only 5 Arete, 1 pick. Remember, Fisher King can replace a requirement for Sword in the Stone, potentially allowing you to write-in Sword in the Stone with enough Arete.

If we take Fisher King Decimation Grand Nullification, we should be able to buy Fisher King for 1P/4A.

Now, there's a lot of excitement about Pillars. However, it won't activate for another two weeks in-game. Similarly, Fisher King's benefits do not come through until we need to reactivate Huntress Moon. We'd be paying 29 Arete for benefits that do not materialize for 2-4 weeks of in-game time. That's half again the entire duration of the quest! Here's what that build looks like:
[] Fisher King
[] Pillars of Creation
[] Towards Fisher King


I just don't know if I'm sold on spending 29 Arete for something that will take so long to pay off.

Serendipity is really good, after all.
 
When we first paid for Fisher King, we paid 3/5 Picks, and 12/24 Arete.

We got two picks for fighting Augustine:


That means we should be able to buy Fisher King outright for 2P/12A



If we take Fisher King Decimation Grand Nullification, we should be able to buy Fisher King for 1P/4A.

Now, there's a lot of excitement about Pillars. However, it won't activate for another two weeks in-game. Similarly, Fisher King's benefits do not come through until we need to reactivate Huntress Moon. We'd be paying 29 Arete for benefits that do not materialize for 2-4 weeks of in-game time. That's half again the entire duration of the quest! Here's what that build looks like:
[] Fisher King
[] Pillars of Creation
[] Towards Fisher King


I just don't know if I'm sold on spending 29 Arete for something that will take so long to pay off.

Serendipity is really good, after all.
I'd be... okay with that build if only for the intangible pseudo safety blanket I'd feel from having the Accursed favor. It might just be a placebo, but it's the best damn placebo in the universe!
 
[X] Artemisinin

[X] Direct Mitigation

[X] Pillars of Creation

[X]Exalted Spirit

So, having read all of the discussion thus far, I have been convinced towards Direct Mitigation, and, still doubting we'll get 12 Arete, feel confident that Exalted Spirit is our best available 1 pick advancement. I have actually been somewhat shaken in my desire for Foremost Blade, so if we do somehow hit 12, I'll vote for Signs, simply to avoid having to debate whether it's worth the danger to actually use FB.
 
Similarly, Fisher King's benefits do not come through until we need to reactivate Huntress Moon.
Fisher King also comes with mental stats (+Int, +Wits, and a sorely needed ++Wis) in addition to a 50% increase for Rank-ups. If we secure it here, the last part might apply to the gains from liberating Nilfel, assuming we haven't outscaled that benefit entirely. And then there's the most precious part of all: Accursed Favor.
 
[X] Fisher King
[X] Pillars of Creation
[X] Towards Fisher King


I suppose I want to finish off Fisher King, and if we can seal it away now and see what having Accursed favor feels like in character, I'm for it.
 
[ ] Foremost Blade [12 Arete] - All combat encounters that generate 4 or more picks automatically qualify for Huntress' Moon. It does not matter if you manufacture the encounter via artificial difficulty so long as there is a relevant chance of permanent death or stakes of similar magnitude.

*+2 Accursed Favor
*When mere difficulty can stand in for true sustenance, the path to true mitigation opens.

Such a cool Advancement that opens up a supremely interesting avenue to Curse mitigation - if taking on difficult fights can suffice to mitigate Affliction of the Decimator, could something similar be done with other Curses? Perhaps, eventually a single 4-pick fight could serve to mitigate multiple Curses, as broken that might be!

Truly an awesome power, well-suited to both Hunger whose best self is revealed only in moments of tremendous challenge and to the Accursed as well.

I'd definitely vote for it if there was any hope of getting a 4-pick fight again but as mentioned previously, Vanreir has traumatized people so badly that any hope of seeing a 4-pick fight again is gone forever.

[ ] Serendipity [12 Arete] - The Apocryphal Curse will occasionally help you out in interesting, though fairly limited ways instead of creating hostile complications. This is rare, no more than one proc in seven. It's not like she likes you or something, stupid!

*+2 Accursed Favor
*Differs from A Promise Kept in that it both negates the hostile Apocryphal Proc and creates a beneficial proc when it occurs, but is also far less consistent in activation
*Incredibly potent, but doesn't weaken hostile Apocryphal procs at all and the benefits are usually not that amazing
*Invest now and reap the benefits later, especially during timeskips!

Dang, the Accursed Favor has started pouring in for Hunger recently. We must be doing something right... though what that might be escapes me.

It's pretty interesting that the Accursed seems to award Favor for taking on additional difficulties, straightforwardly overcoming problems if you will, and also exploiting Curses to one's own benefit. Says quite a few things about the Most High and provides a guideline on how the best Cursebearers might act.

All this mention of the Accursed has made me badly want a Praxis training session before the end of the month. It would be probably our last opportunity to earn 25 Arete and the resulting 7 Praxis picks, which might allow us to have another meeting with the Accursed or maybe a High Cursebearer. Slim hopes of that though.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Tyrant_Rayne on Sep 21, 2020 at 8:42 PM, finished with 119 posts and 30 votes.
 
Thoughts on our eye. Why don't we TRIPLE our eyesight by regenerating our injured eye and then having Gisena implant a third eye artifice into our forehead. Then with the ocular trinity finally complete we can learn the secret technique

TRI BEAM CANNON
 
Adhoc vote count started by beowolf on Sep 21, 2020 at 9:44 PM, finished with 144 posts and 33 votes.


The previous one is (at least on my phone) showing what it was an hour ago.
 
Thoughts on our eye. Why don't we TRIPLE our eyesight by regenerating our injured eye and then having Gisena implant a third eye artifice into our forehead. Then with the ocular trinity finally complete we can learn the secret technique

TRI BEAM CANNON
Eh. Personally I don't think the triops look suits Hunger very well, and it feels like they have a bit of a weaker mythological backing than either a monops or 'one real, one false' set-up.
 
It's been a while since I've done a goals analysis post. How are we doing?

Decimators Affliction: We've killed the Armament Fish, not sure how long before we have to worry about Decimator's Affliction again. Foremost Blade is a powerful option at the cost of incentivizing us towards reckless behavior and lowering our odds of successful vengeance. Pillars of Creation can help us mitigate it, diminishes its strength while we're inside, and generate hunger sated targets for us. Finding out what the median means of an unknown dataset is beyond me to say with certainty, but I'll try to speculate. If the dataset of Hunger Sated Targets by difficulty is a histogram with a symmetric distribution, then the median is roughly equivalent to the mean. If the dataset of Hunger Sated targets is a histogram with a skewed distribution, the outliers skew the mean and median so they diverge somewhat. I don't think we have enough information to actually say what reducing the median difficulty of Hunger Sated targets means in practice. Measures of Central Tendency: Mean, Median, and Mode - Statistics By Jim. The Mitigation Duration boost and variety improvements however are pretty helpful especially in conjunction with upgraded Pillars of Creation. Especially if we're willing to try burning our perfect defense for the week to take that even further beyond. I'd seriously consider Fisher King in addition to Artemisinin though.

Aobaru's Terminator: We have an assassin to deal with that can scale like we can. We need to preserve scaling opportunities by any means necessary. Rushing Fisher King is ill advised. Pillars of Creation is extremely tempting and probably worth it if we don't encounter his assassin before our first time using Pillars of Creation. If we do have to worry about Aobaru's assassin before we get to use Pillars of Creation, then Elder Sign or Once and Future II is Optimal. Elder Sign has the advantage that we can research Empyrean Signs ourselves with the benefits of Hunger giving us a venue of scaling. It's not Philosopher's Wreath but oh well. It let's us train without doing stupidly reckless things and that is worth its weight in gold. Especially if we can get Ruling Ring with it. Plus the Empyrean Signs approach the Royal Praxis in terms of power.

Getting Letrezia Out of the Voyaging Realm: She is as always a Nightmare Flight away.

Getting Ourself/Aeira/Aobaru out of the Voyaging Realm: We're about to have this as our next problem, in conjunction perhaps with Aobaru's terminator. Elder Sign may or may not be useful for the route where we ask an Astral Denizen for knowledge on what to expect. OAF II may help us in whatever fight we start. Direct Apocryphal mitigation ensures that if the Apocryphal curse wants to nudge us maliciously when we're dealing with this, it won't be able to do it as hard.

Conquering the Human Sphere: ISH Boosted intelligence/wisdom is a hell of a drug. So is weaponizable Decimator's Affliction from Fisher King. If we get some kind of useful utility pick upgraded by Elder Sign that would also help us conquer the human sphere too I bet. Remember, any utility options acquired for future signs are probably going to be better than supreme enclosure.

Successful Odds of Vengeance: Foremost Blade is foolish for what it does to our incentive structure. Serendipity would be a potent benefit, as would direct mitigation.

Ruling Well: Golden Hour may assist us if we are to rule directly as opposed to puppeting Adorie. Fewer Procs means less collateral damage to our holdings through attrition. Serendipity may make it benefit our holding occasionally. All the pick options can be twisted in this direction on some level. Fisher King gives us more cognitive buffs but is ill advised to take immediately given Aobaru's Terminator as a problem.

Curse Mitigation: Gisena getting Renaissance Woman means we have a lot of options, the question is how do those options fit our goals. There's also Upgraded Pillars of Creation, which is just ridiculous.

Word Count: 661 Words
 
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