Something we might want to think about and maybe make a plan for is the sort of character arc we want to see from a reckless but adaptable and coolheaded (don't forget there are more than just downsides to our attitude even if they are big downsides for a ruler) Hunger. I feel that this is not so bad as it might be and is kind of a consequence of the high risk high reward play style that has brought us quite a lot of success if also stress. In character I think it makes a good bit is sense for hunger to be taking such an attitude as he has gone from being an near entirely crippled former hero with dead companions betrayed by the people he protected when he tried to build support for his dream of democracy to at least as strong as he was at his height if not stronger and with the powers of a progression type curse bearer as well. He has done this through daring and heroism and has been leery of taking too much time from growth for ruling or even just relaxing. If he has gotten a bit arrogant it is understandable. So how do we want to play this from here? It could be interesting to see such an individual give up a great opportunity for the sake of his cherished companions after nearly losing one. It could also be interesting to seek him try and take more onto himself to try and never again find himself in such a position via leveraging opportunities for further growth and power. This is likely not the last time Hunger will ever make choices or have experiences that change his attitude so perhaps if we put more long term though into that alongside our plans for progression we can see all of the options as viable, just different flavors of interesting narrative.
 
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I am not saying it's not reckless - the option straight up says that it enhances Hunger's recklessness. I am saying that this recklessness does not mean that he is disregarding the odds or doesn't contemplate the consequences of that recklessness, it means that he also believes that the odds are good enough and that his abilities are high enough to avoid the consequences. Which is two very different things for a character.
Failure to give proper consideration to the risks or consequences associated with one's actions is literally the definition of recklessness.

That is what the word means. Just thinking you can accomplish things is not enough to make you reckless, because people who believe in themselves are normally mindful of the world around them not always going according to their plans.

Ah, big enough that it makes the story worse, I guess? Which is an incalculable and a largely subjective amount. Deaths of the fictional people do not exactly carry a moral weight for the real people that risk them.
If you want to play the kind of story where (for instance) the protagonist's slaughter of millions as a result of his own ill-conceived gambit going wrong because he overestimated himself from sheer arrogance is primarily interpreted as a character growth moment for the protagonist as opposed to, say, a fucking appalling disaster...

One of us is going to be very disappointed by this quest. I'll say that much.
 
If you want to play the kind of story where (for instance) the protagonist's slaughter of millions as a result of his own ill-conceived gambit going wrong because he overestimated himself from sheer arrogance is primarily interpreted as a character growth moment for the protagonist as opposed to, say, a fucking appalling disaster...

One of us is going to be very disappointed by this quest. I'll say that much.
EDIT: In retrospect, I could have been a bit less vehement, which only contributes to salt escalation. That being said, I think I still had some solid points in there (Namely the danger of Apocryphal to our populace considerable outstripping Decimator for a few days), so I spoilered it.

Yeah, that's exactly the sort of disaster that leaving your kingdoms to the (nonexistent) mercy of the Apocryphal Curse to ravage before reaching you would cause. How horrible.

I can only imagine the sort of character who would value one month of his people's lives over keeping them under constant siege by a Curse so dreadful that the Accursed made it worth two curses. A curse that will continue to scale in power as Hunger does, and probably will eventually reach the strength where a single proc will wipe one of his kingdoms away in a fell swoop.

TBH, I can't stand when people make the moral argument of the horrors of a few days of Decimation while ignoring that not taking Adorie to spare our kingdoms from Apocryphal is magnitudes upon magnitudes worse.
 
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[X] King and Court

yurghhh, flipping again

-> i am afflicted with the bane of "i am tired of hunting for decimator procs" and i want more time to see the main questline being worked on
-> adorie can still administrate our conquests without companionship -> beyond that, if we get her as a companion in the future, it might be worth considering raising her up with CK + Ennoblement + Vanguard (at least if we have space)
-> decimator procs are pretty harsh, i dislike the characterization at hand and would like to de-emphasize it. as cool as adaptability and cool under fire are, i dislike egging on reckless and greedy behavior, when rihaku has been explicit about it leading to a bad end. beyond that, i like to think that Hunger's core values learned in his original isekai would teach him not to play riskily and leave things up to chance, but instead take the smart, calculated moves. never trust in fate, remember? the hidden ones are still watching. live, and grow strong, but grow strong to protect first and foremost.
 
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Promise made, promise kept:

[X] Zampano

One thing to consider is that the Tower grants increased usage of the Evening Sky's perfect defense, which can be turned to the task of Curse mitigation. If it stacks with and is contextualized by previous mitigation methods (we were told this is how ADS's 5% universal mitigation works), we should burn it on the Affliction, thus increasing the availability/lowering the requirements of A Hunger, Sated targets. That, plus the Decimation Lens and the Empyrean Signs' fast travel should see us in good stead when it comes to finding them. We can leave our companions with Adorie and teleport away from Nilfel, dodging the moral risk of Decimating a major population center, and return when the Curse is suppressed.
 
[ ] Starsand
The element of innumerable beauty, and the sands at night. Of the things that make telescopes and rocket ships. Of yearning, for the vast and endless sea.
0 Arete: A scintillating white sand, shining and beautiful. A highly versatile element, for all that it is nearly mundane.
2 Arete: All earthly things were once stardust, and your sand remembers. By combining grains, craft tiny stars that decay into mundane elements - controllable by the number and timing of added grains. Your stars' heat is intense, but well contained.
7 Arete: Some say, when you die, you have to walk a desert. This would be the sand there, and the sea of stars above. Starsand now defines a liminal space, between life and death, earth and heaven, judgement and the hereafter - where all things become clear, and stand on even ground. Areas bounded by this Element provide an excellent vector for interacting with spirits and ambiguous entities, including the dead, and may open a path to resurrection in certain circumstances. It's also quite good for rendering immortals vulnerable.
25 Arete: If the stars and sands are countless, then it is right that your Element be also. Your supply is now infinite, and the grains each have the lifetime of a star. Your output rate is still constrained by certain limits of practicality, and control at vast scales will require training. May your kingdom shine forever.
 
another risk factor to consider is that we don't know how far our decimation reaches. it might still be half a continent, which would be trivial to deal with, or on the level of a solar system. we might well affect millions more people than we had initially anticipated.
 
Failure to give proper consideration to the risks or consequences associated with one's actions is literally the definition of recklessness.

That is what the word means. Just thinking you can accomplish things is not enough to make you reckless, because people who believe in themselves are normally mindful of the world around them not always going according to their plans.
Emphasis on the word "proper" here - you can indeed argue that Hunger risking other people's lives - or parts of their lives, in this case - on the self-assessment of his abilities means he is not properly considering the risks. That does not mean that he doesn't care about what he risks or that he doesn't consider that loss as something bad - he believes that that loss will not come to pass, and he is not exactly basing that belief on nothing. Again, these are two entirely different things, with largely backed-up trust in his own abilities being, to me, a much more palatable characterization than a simple disregard of consequences in case of failure.
If you want to play the kind of story where (for instance) the protagonist's slaughter of millions as a result of his own ill-conceived gambit going wrong because he overestimated himself from sheer arrogance is primarily interpreted as a character growth moment for the protagonist as opposed to, say, a fucking appalling disaster...

One of us is going to be very disappointed by this quest. I'll say that much.
Duly noted, but I don't see why it can't be both? Failure is not bad, either for the quality of writing or from the moral standpoint of readers/players. Even if it's an appalling disaster IC, it can lead to well-written and interesting developments.
 
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Something we might want to think about and maybe make a plan for is the sort of character arc we want to see from a reckless but adaptable and coolheaded (don't forget there are more than just downsides to our attitude even if they are big downsides for a ruler) Hunger.

I'm not sure we can really plan for our character being reckless. Hunger will be cool and adaptable, which basically means after he gets himself and his court in a tight spot he doesn't panic and we will then have several options to choose from about dealing with the issue. Likely good ones, for the circumstance we found ourself in.

It's still a part of his characterization even if we go with Companions, but it being mitigated so that we have more, or better, opportunities to steer before Hunger gets himself in deep would be appreciated. If this wasn't going to have a tangible effect going forward it wouldn't be a discussion point for us, I don't believe.

Speaking of, that was my thoughts on how that aspect of the vote could influence us. I'm curious for other ideas.

Open ended to everyone:
How do you imagine more or less recklessness will influence the options we are presented with? Will it be in the options we are given themselves, or at what point in a situation we are thrown back the ball to choose, or perhaps it will only be in execution of tactics? Other ideas?
 
His greatest strengths as a ruler are his adaptability and cool under fire; his greatest weaknesses are his recklessness and greed.
I mean we could describe the thread like this or...
Adaptability - we have the attention span of 3 yeal old who jumps from one shiny to the next and it is a miracle we have half coherent build. Thank the SORD Chadius, first Sword of the SORD Gang who actually beat the MAEG gang at the battle of " Sky Above Sky " to get Uttermost and make our build somewhat coherent.

Cool under fire - we actually don't know how close to death we are and we have the preservation instinct of 1 year old. Basically we are too crazy to be scared

Recklessness - DEATH Gang, no more comments needed

Greed - gimme Shiny, gimme everything.
 
EDIT: In retrospect, I apologize for the tone used here. It was uncalled for.

Yeah, that's exactly the sort of disaster that leaving your kingdoms to the (nonexistent) mercy of the Apocryphal Curse to ravage before reaching you would cause. How horrible.

I can only imagine the sort of character who would value one month of his people's lives over keeping them under constant siege by a Curse so dreadful that the Accursed made it worth two curses. A curse that will continue to scale in power as Hunger does, and probably will eventually reach the strength where a single proc will wipe one of his kingdoms away in a fell swoop.

TBH, I can't stand when people make the moral argument of the horrors of a few days of Decimation while ignoring that not taking Adorie to spare our kingdoms from Apocryphal is magnitudes upon magnitudes worse.

Constant? It has to build up credibility to do things over time. Those things do not have to be directly violent. If we're sufficiently powerful physically and neglect the mental and social side it would totally send problems meant for a mental/social player at us. Like Rihakuverse Coronavirus. Or political corruption for us to investigate. Or pacifist pro-democracy protestors who figured out how to get conceptual immunity to violence that's higher on the ISH then anything we can output. Or vice versa. If we don't have sufficient physical power we're going to have Kajiu attacks that are out of our weight class or something. We'd actually have to invest time in managing our holdings if we don't get Adorie, fortifying them against potential venues of Apocryphal attack. I'd like to think I'm totally willing to play that game.

Tangentially, anything meant to target Hunger directly while he's still in an Adorie controlled area would probably have ridiculous enough collateral damage to kill boatloads of people anyways. What happens once we breach the 90 percent threshold for control of the Human Sphere and Yog-Sothoth shows up during our 50-year reign to slag the populated planet we're on as his opening move to kill us? What happens if Hunger and Adorie have a genuine difference of opinion unprovoked by the Apocryphal Curse and the will of the people is on her side so the Geas of Indenture considers her to be in charge and not us so we have to conquer the sphere all over again? This Regency game has a whole separate set of problems that can arise.
 
Constant? It has to build up credibility to do things over time.
So, first of all, no, the Apocryphal Curse isn't as limited as the Fates, so you really can't rely on that assumption.

From Discord. (Pasting from phone is hard. Damn you, Doom of the Phoneposter!!!)

R'
She just 'usually' follows 'some' rules
but she can break them and throw Odyssial-level encounters at you forever if she wants
credibility is something the fates and heroine had
 
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I suppose we need more arete.

Well, this is obviously about Hunger's newfound power. I wonder if he actually got a new shiny crown? If she, it is not good enough for his panoply at least, which is a pity. But IIRC there is a pretty great Crown in Human Sphere, so there is that; we should leave a slot open for it.

Public opinion had shifted enormously in the wake of the Rotbeast's defeat. The powerlessness and apparent incompetence of the government stood in stark contrast with the single-handed valor of 'Lord Hunger,' who had ventured alone into the depths of the Rotbeast and put down that primeval monster for good. Many called for a re-organization of the Sovereignty at the highest levels, and the renunciation of such policies as the mandatory conscription of Elementalists.
I wonder what people actually wanted Sov.Government to actually do. I do think that they had options to... well. A bunch of options, actually. Submitting to the Empire was one, as Letrz said. Waiting until Surgecrafters mature and become powerful enough to handle rotbeast was actually a semi-decent strategy that could have worked if not for Apocryphal curse - pity that Sov.Gov didn't know about Elixir's gradual diminishment, though. Trying to actively seek out powerful champions to save them probably was on the table, too, but required powerful Surgecrafts to go who-knows-where and risk their lives. Mizuki did that, look what happened to him even if his tactics and strategies were entirely sound.

Well, I guess I must bring up a trite, tired but-true point about people not really caring about what could be realistically done, but about doing something.

"The people are effectively unanimous," Aobaru said quietly, eyes wide. "They sincerely want you to be their king."
I wonder why this is even surprising at this point. Charisma blaster was fully active back then; Aobaru should have expected people of his nation to react in the same way he did - with unquestionable adoration.

I wonder how much of Hunger's distate for his new title comes from understanding of how fucked up his effect on other people is. That Gleam advancement was as fucked up as it was good. I wish we could turn it off like our charisma, to modulate its effects and leave it on only when it is actually important.

Though there had certainly been misrule and corruption, Hunger empathized slightly with the current government. They had simply lacked the power to address their people's troubles, and Hunger had not. That was no accident of circumstance - they had strived relentlessly to reach their current heights - but neither was it some great moral or intellectual victory for himself and his party.

To add to that - somebody surely put forward a pretty hefty amount of effort to actually get into the depths of Voyaging Realm and found a nation in there. Unless we presume absolute idioicy on the side on Sov.Founders, there probably has been pretty hefty reasons for an entire nation's worth of people to pack their things, show Empire the finger, and settle down on a literal death world.

Hunger sighed and rubbed his eyes, while Letrizia gave him a commiserating back massage. "It's okay, Lord Hunger! As we say in the Empire, noblesse oblige! Elevating nobility to the position of sovereign occasionally is merely what's done around these parts."
I wonder if Letrz leans toward her imperial beliefs mostly out of inertia, or she has some additional incentives. I suppose somebody who burned a significant chunk of their lives through piloting Devouring Armament would be motivated to ignore bad bits of what they have been protecting and highlight the good ones. Simply due to the fact that she wants to believe that she has been sacrificing her lifespan for an unambiguously good thing, not a messy authoritarian policy a lot of people entirely reasonably hate.

"Oh really?" He scoffed. "And when was the last time that occurred?"
Letrizia hummed and paused the massage to tick off her fingers. "Hm... I suppose it was a couple minutes ago!"
This does bring up a pretty interesting point; I wonder how is the social mobility in the Empire? How easy it is for the lower-class citizens to actually get somewhere, become someone? It is easy to be noble when you have an Armament, and could realistically Fuck Some Shit up; how things are for the noble houses that do not own stellar-grade WMDs?


"I'm glad you find this so amusing."
Aeira tentatively gripped a stack of paper held against her chest. "Um- sir- If I may, I have a few suggestions as to the administration of this province, once you undergo your accession..."
TIME FOR NEPOTISM

Seriously though, I am gladdened we didn't choose to rely on Aeira's family to run Soverignty; maybe their mistakes were not definitive proof of their competency - or lack of thereof - but nepotism is still a pretty shitty way to run things.

...Unless you can make it work with magic or something, I suppose.

"Don't I get a say in this?" Hunger grumbled.
"It's not like you want to be their king or anything, stupid!" Gisena sang cheerfully, sweeping by with, of all things, a duster in her hand.
This was a good one. Gisena hadn't managed to get Hunger this good for awhile. If ever, really.

"You did say you'd go with what the people want," Letrizia pointed out. "And this is what they want. Hail to the king!"
"It's impossible for me to stay here and rule."
Letrz really is having entirely too much fun with this. Lets see how long it'll last.

Besides, situation forcing Hunger into ruling IC is kind of problematic, as outlined above and, additionally, in term of practical concerns; with Apocryphal Curse, with Decimation these people don't really know what they are asking for. At least Decimation could be managed with Pillars, I suppose, but there is no shield from Apocryphal threats without Hunger just up and fucking off as far as possible. Best we could manage so far is Adorie's spare the innocent, but that also presumes Hunger actively not ruling people.

Man, we really should be grabbing as much Apocryphal Mitigation as possible.

"They're well aware of that," Letrizia rejoined. "That's part of what makes them so willing to elevate you to that position! Vacant yet uncontested at the same time - who could challenge such a throne?"


"The dangers of supernatural charisma," Gisena tittered, laying a hand on Hunger's shoulder. "What'll it be, my Lord? Learn to say no or take up this burden upon yourself?"
Like we even could refuse.

...I suppose Hunger might have actually refused, if we didn't spend those 12 arete.

"If they really only desire an absentee monarch," Hunger sighed, "I suppose it's an opportunity to do some actual good with the power we've gained."
Well, a good symbol is good for one's country, too. I wonder if Power That Be are planning on regaining any power; I wonder how many elements of the old administration managed to stay in old one. Dramatic changes to the system are hard; in many countries even after revolutions and such, a lot of people stayed on their old positions, even if they were directly connected to the regimes that were overthrown.

Letrizia cheered, pounding him enthusiastically on the back. "The seat of our sub-Empire rises! I'll make sure you have favorable trade terms with my fiefdoms. There are a couple of planets that would really benefit from even a few Elementalists!"
Letrz is awfully cheery about making Hunger nobility. I wonder if there are any issues between Duchess interacting with non-nobility in Human Sphere? Or maybe she simply wants Hunger to occupy a "suitably" high social position. That is entirely possible to be honest; Letrz does sounds like that kind of girl that wants only good things for her friends, even if her "good things" are not necessarily agreeable to her friends.

"We'll have to be careful that our reforms don't end up doing more harm than good," Hunger continued, "Especially with the populace so zealous. If we were to emigrate Elementalists on top of that, provoking the Voyaging Realm... Aeira, you've mentioned that your family are not the biggest fans of the current government. I trust you to give an objective evaluation. Is this mostly a matter of factional strife or is there truly considerable abuse of power in the current regime?"
Yeah, history is pretty full of well-intentioned reforms fucking things up. Even occasional overzealous reforms fucking things up; from famines to blatant lack of tools, extinction of "harmful" species induced by people who know nothing about animal systems, you could found most hilarious and tragic examples.

Trusting Aeira that was pretty risky, though. Well, Hunger has shown himself to be a decent judge of character so far, so maybe it'll work out. Excessive amounts of charisma are certainly good at compelling cooperation and truthfulness out of children... Man, that charismablaster. To be horrified or to be amused, ever the question. I sometimes wonder how it would've been with Threefold's tripled CHA.

Aeira considered carefully. "Certainly there is a great deal of corruption in the system, though I do not know if it rises to malfeasance on the level of, say, the Republic. But our education on the matter has likely been skewed. Our sources are mostly Imperial, and the Republic has long been embroiled in a rivalrous contention with their border Houses."
Even Soverignty seems to be shitting on Republic. Are they truly so bad, I wonder? I guess we'll see eventually, although I'd prefer to get a republic companion sometime soon to get their perspective proper...

...Cast inflation might be a little bit of a concern, though.

Nothing for it but to decide. He contemplated deeply for a moment.
"sounds of manifold pages of internet forum debates echo in the distance"


"A constitutional monarchy," Hunger finally said. "With technical sovereignty in theory, but limited powers of appointment in practice. The main objective will be an overhaul of the current government structure emphasizing the elevation of officials that are both capable and well-meaning. We can skimp somewhat on the former as long as we prioritize the latter; at my current Rank I can permanently augment them with Blood enhancements. All of you will pitch in and assist with both the design and execution. We've only got a week and a half before the Decimator's Affliction returns, so we can budget no more than five days here."


"F-five days," Letrizia blanched. "To overhaul their entire apparatus of state? That's-"
And here we go, seconds thoughts are starting. Don't worry Letrz, with your sharpbright you are only going to get mediocre amount of work. Just enough to trouble you for the entirety of these five days. Hunger and Gisena are the ones who'll be pressured the worst...

"What the people want," Hunger said, eyebrows raised. "And we're going with what they want. Isn't that right, duchess?"
Hunger does sometimes produce a pretty reasonable comeback moments, from time to time.

Afterwards, as Hunger retired to his room, Gisena dropped by with her newly completed Artifact. "This will make hunting for Decimator's mitigation much easier! You may praise me now."
"Truly you are a genius among geniuses," Hunger said dryly. "A star of grace come to earth and enlightening us by your presence. I simply don't know what we'd do without you."
"Ah~ wonderful!" Gisena fanned herself. "Praise me more!"
I wonder if Lens qualifies as at least 2 arete grade artifact. Probably not, Gisena's arete production levels do not seem to be terribly high despite her sky-high potential.
He took the Artifact from her to examine, a lens comprised of red quartz that could be placed before the eye. Already two figures were apparent on the display, potential targets with a high probability of replicating the phenomenon he'd tapped into against the pirate captain. Gisena had indicated that the first was most promising, a faraway tower woven from ancient magics that held some connection to his cloak of sky.
I wonder what happened to the fishing competition. Did it evaporate from reality when we failed to choose it? Well, is so, good riddance.
"How does it work?" He mused. That the Artifact was capable of interfacing with his Curse was no surprise - Gisena had always demonstrated keen insight into the nature of his afflictions - but he hadn't expected it to be capable of pulling such volumes of data from the world itself.
Occasionally, lesser items somehow manage to affect the curses disproportionally; Hunger sated is equivalent to like, 4 levels of mitigation IIRC? It is really not surprising that an artifact like Ring could at least accomplish this much.
"It's connected to our Rings," Gisena explained brightly. "Among the lesser domains of my Ring is the Domain of Truth! Gathering a limited subset of data from our semi-immediate vicinity weighs against its ontological budget, but removing the Decimation's Affliction is absolutely a worthy cause!"
Oh, Truth. Broken as shit, this domain. I wonder when she is going to unlock Act As Truth, and if it is even possible to unlock in this ontological realm.

He smirked at the Azure. "Trying to escape our accusations of slacking? It's an ingenious design. I expected nothing less."
Wonder how much of the Ring is showing in Gisena's talk lately. She doesn't seems be changed much, or at all; but the ring did have awfully high compatibility... We also choose the option that had it show us a proper measure of respect; maybe that also prevents it from fucking our companion.

...Well, and Gisena being able to null it into non-existence at any time, really.

"Naturally," Gisena feigned demureness. "But let's talk politics. Are you sure about this, hun? You've got a mission to follow and it doesn't involve this Sovereignty, charming as it may be!"
Ah, Gisena. Ever the voice of "perhaps, for a moment, we should consider a less extreme option." Sadly, this time her talk does not have a +mental stability to go with it, which is regrettable. But this time Hunger is not under a threat of miserably dying for basically nothing, so whatever.

He nodded seriously. "If we can make things better for these people, then we should at least make the attempt. Their society has been structured around Rotspawn defense for nearly two decades now. I don't want to see this place collapse into a military junta when their armed forces try to reclaim political relevance. Imperial culture places a fairly high regard on martial valour, from what Letrizia has told me. Edifying in times of war, but in peacetime..."
This bit really should be quoted repeatedly when people mention that Hunger doesn't care about people now or something something whatever, I suppose. This is the choice the made, not "Our work is done, time to fuck off." Kingship is a tool to make people prosper for Hunger, not some sort of obligation.

"This has been an odd turn of events," Gisena mused. "I'm surprised the powers that be allowed their official organs to broadcast such results! It's all but tantamount to treason."
Nothing particularly odd in not making your own people tear your apart. Just roll with the blows and hope that you could retain at least some of your former power; that is what these people did. I wonder how much they actually managed.

There might have been an element of long-forgotten idealism, too. Not that these people actually had any *good* ways of their situation; all potential exits outlined required a lot of luck. And then there individuals like Mizuki, who were threatening to pull the nation apart and rob it of all future, in some ways; what has been done to his family is vile and not particularly acceptable, but understandable. If everyone or just half of the elementalists followed his example, the nation would have been proper fucked.

"The groundswell of organic support put too much pressure on them," he said, "According to Aeira. I wonder if her family pulled some strings. They were previously discredited... but now their daughter is one of the only Elementalists confirmed to associate with our party. It wouldn't surprise me if some of their old contacts suddenly rediscovered their affection for her dynasty. Aeira herself seems earnest enough, but I don't know far to extend that trust..."
Dynasty, huh. I wonder if they weren't one of the people who pulled incipient Sovergnity into Voyaging Realm. Well, I did say some words about trusting these people previously. Nepotism bad, etc, etc.

Although this maybe could have easied up initial stages of forming gov.administration.

"Always trying your hardest," Gisena said fondly, resting her head against his shoulder. "Cursebearers deserve vacations too!"
"If only we all got what we deserved," he deadpanned.
"Exactly!" She rejoined, eyes wide. "So much acclaim would come my way! Perhaps I should be Queen instead?"
Queen doesn't really work with that hip cool old people image she is projecting tho

Cursebearers do get vacations by mitigating Curse of Indenture, btw

"Aren't Sorceress queens the very stereotype of jealous evil? But if you want the job, I wouldn't be opposed. My strengths trend more towards matters military. Not everyone can be a truly all-encompassing genius."
"Sorry!" Gisena chirped. "Flattering as the position would be, a genius knows never to take direct responsibility when she can instead deflect it onto others."
Except when it is acclaim and credit. Then it surely all belongs to the genius, subtle hand she is. Despite the bants, she did most of the heavy lifting regardless, so one cannot be too critical here, I suppose.

"How cruel, baiting me with false hope like that."
"Aren't you a master fisherman? For shame."
A fisherman is no fish, I must say. Hunger might know the bait, but it doesn't mean that he is immune to bait, should he someone encounter one while swimming in capricious waters.

...That metaphor is pretty weak, but what can you do.
"I'm but an enthusiastic amateur. For a genius of your calibre to bully me is truly reprehensible."
She giggled. "My apologies! Let me make it up to you."
A masterful turnaround. Look at how miserable I am, how dare great you strike at me!

...Honestly, dragging on a little.


"Sure thing, I'll make you regent in my stead. You can do the hard work of vetting and selecting all our appointments."
"So long as it isn't Queen Regent. I'd hate to be a stereotype!"
"Princess Regent, then."
Choosing titles like this is the best part of conquering a nation overnight, I suppose. We should have named ourself Grand Emperor of All Springs That Lie Under The Evening Sky, I think. Or something lengthier. Include the blade and the ring into that title, too. If it is shorter than 10 seconds, it is too short.


She batted her eyelashes at him. "How about Princess Consort?"
"How about another three Artifacts? We've Curses to be mitigating."
"Yes, your Majesty!"
Such cheek. Gisena really should be crafting artifacts like three ranks above her actual rank if she bants like this.
[ ] Constitutional Design - There's not much time, so Hunger will have to work within the limits of the Imperial framework to some extent, but he's popular enough that major revisions are feasible. People are impermament, but a structure of government can outlive generations both great and timid. Focus on establishing the soundest possible foundation for the long-term stability of the government, guaranteeing basic civil rights and balancing the arms of government while maintaining enough of a continuity with the prior semi-Imperial system to maintain legitimacy in the eyes of the powerful traditionalist faction.
The winning option. I guess I see the appeal; no half measures, no compromise, no building government that could not exist without Hunger's influence. Only recently I argued about how unlikely it is for Hunger to build a state that would suffer without him. I must say tho, that circumstances weren't most receptive to this; we really were in a hurry and our journey barely started. There were strong incentives to do a good enough job, and then return here after we deal with most of the problems that were plaguing us.

Well, nonetheless, we went for it, we succeeded, if only barely. You don't judge the victors, I suppose.
[ ] Finding Capable Administrators - The intent behind any given document matters little in the face of its implementer. What's most important is to find people who share Hunger's vision and are reasonably capable at their job. Genuine well-meaning combined with a modicum of judgement should suffice to advance the public interest in Hunger's absence.
A really good option this was; Constitutional Design maybe was the "correct" option, but this did a good enough job without significant risk. Less time IIRC, too, and it was becoming a really precious resource right around that point.

[ ] The Elementalists - Ultimately the military and utility value of the Sovereignty lies in its Elementalists. Though naked advantage is not the purpose of Hunger's rule, it would be blithe idealism not to maximize the benefits of conquest in order to defray its considerable cost in time and attention.
I must say, as a consequences of this, a lot of people in power are going to be awfully young. Not necessarily a bad idea considering mental augs Hunger offers, but it certain to tilt Soverignty's policies in more dramatic and daring directions, I suppose.

Not necessarily a bad option; none of these are. This is going to result in some really good mages down the like, walking around in really pretty uniforms... But my heart lies not really here.

[ ] The Traditionalists - The Elixir Springs are the core of their eponymous Sovereignty, and its resorts the beating economic heart. Encourage cultivation and stewardship of the Spring waters and their healing powers, even at the cost of reduced Elementalist numbers.
Not here either, even though non-military focus kind of appeals. Not that Elements are necessary military focused, but somehow I am getting that kind of feel, what with the Saiyan comparison and every Elementalist being able to demolish a building even if their element is not primary-combat oriented.
[ ] None - Seek only the welfare of the nation. You've no interest in self aggrandizement on such paltry scales. [+1 Arete]
This was my favorite option. Forego minimal long-term advantages of favour of people's wellbeing - all "long term" benefits that aren't granted by Progression are typically weak asf anyway. Arete didn't hurt either. Was such a great character statement on top of all that... Not that periodically compromising with the world is wrong, but overcoming the need to compromise through sheer excellence is one of the main Rihakuquest drawing points. Choices like this are the essence of it all.


So, first of all, no, the Apocryphal Curse isn't as limited as the Fates, so you really can't rely on that assumption.
One of many reasons why Apocryphal mitigation is worth hundredfold of its weight in gold.
 
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Tangentially, anything meant to target Hunger directly while he's still in an Adorie controlled area would probably have ridiculous enough collateral damage to kill boatloads of people anyways.

I'll point out as well that the Rotbeast and republic Kill team options were offered to us well before we had any rule over the Elixer Sovereignty. It seems as if the Apocryphal will throw stuff at people, knowing Hunger will try to save them regardless of whether he rules it.

That's not really a reason not to ask for Adorie's help in adminsitering our kingdom, but it's not a moral hazard in the same sense as not using the Tower for a Hunger Sated because while we have no idea where to find a new target in the span of two days or if their even is one we can find+resolve in time, we have clear ways of winning the loyalty of a princess whose return to power we would orchestrate and for whom we can impress upon the good she'd be doing by administering territories under our control.

Nothing about Adorie's characterization so far has suggested me that when given a chance to help a large number of people and also repay the debt of the person who is probably most responsible for her people's fate, who also happens to be insanely charismatic, would look at the deal of vastly expanding her state's power and ability to help it's citizenry while also safegaurding millions, and in the future trillions, of innocents and go 'nuh-uh.'
 
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Apo Mitigation isn't a panacea either. We were told it decreases the average level of encounters, but it doesn't really affect her max capabilities. I guess this is like modifying her 'rule' that says how much effort she usually puts in? But she can disregard that anyway if the mood strikes her and she thinks things are getting too boring. Not that there's much point thinking about it, it will be a very long time if ever till we can do something about her max power.
 
Continuing the Rihaku quote from Discord now that I'm back to my laptop. TLDR; Despite Apoc being able to break rules at a whim, Apoc Mitigation is still pretty good. Vote Eye of the Storm for Apoc mitigation! It's both direct (2.5% reduction) and indirect by getting Adorie to stop our kingdoms from being reduced to ablative armor!

Unelemental07/26/2020
man
even with mitigation?
R'07/26/2020
mitigation changes the average level of encounters
R'07/26/2020
it's pretty unlikely for the Apocryphal to break her rules consistently over many encounters
but it's happened before
R'07/26/2020
still, there's no doubt that mitigation makes you safer on average
 
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Well, maybe I've exaggerated things a tad, it's not all doom and gloom. There are still a number of things Apo-chan is constrained by. For one, she does follow her rules most of the time. For another, her goal isn't simply killing Hunger, it's to make things interesting. Presenting him with a challenge that has no ways out at all is quite boring, though that doesn't mean we can defeat every opponent she throws at us, just that we'll always have a chance to solve the problem in some way. And lastly, she needs to actually set things up, she can't magic enemies out of thin air (yet, question is out on things outside reality) and doesn't have perfect control over the world. Her preparations can become obsolete due to Hunger outscaling projected growth or some other factor messing up her plans.
 
[X] King and Court

I utterly hate Hunger's characterisation, because it means that Hunger is the kind of individual that puts billions at potential risk, because it is doubling down on throwing ourselves into constant danger, something that will get Hunger eventually killed. And taking other options is explicitely called reckless by Rihaku.

My biggest problem is the fact that there is no need to be reckless. What do we gain by being reckless in this situation? midly more power when compared to Kingly Court? It's just...being reckless for its own sake, almost. When we went to the temple we were in need of immediate power, when we went to the realm of myth we need a guaranteed way to get A hunger Sated, but here...why do we need to take the reckless option, exactly? What compels us?

Like, i hate the moral implications of the action, but what bothers me the most is the fact that there is no need for it. We don't have a need to take this path unlike other times.
 
[X] All Under Heaven

Iunno, this seems legit. More power now so we can get decim mitigation elsewhere. Iirc we can just tele out?? So there's no real risk of afflicting Nilfel. Plus we've got the Lens 'n stuff to find another target
 
Hmmm, I'm actually quite puzzled by the dislike of Hunger's attitude towards rulership. When directly queried, most preferred to delegate as much of the actual ruling as possible in favor of pursuing other things. Doesn't that fit with the attitude described in the update? Many would indeed prefer Kingship to be a means to an end in our heroic journey, so you are all getting exactly what you wanted!

The recklessness is a bit more worrying, but frankly we've been behaving like that often enough anyway despite repeated warnings both in and out of character, so it'd be nice to finally get some benefit out of it at least! No amount of Arete can fix in-thread tendencies. It's best to actually lean into it so we can at least get benefits from it and plan our adventures accordingly! Planning for a safe trip while voting for danger is less than ideal; let's actually accept what we'd want Hunger to do at any given moment.

Additionally, now that Aobaru has quite the responsibility on his shoulders, conquest of the Voyaging Realm becomes very important! Securing such an effective ruler as Adorie would not only strengthen our territories significantly, it would also protect them from Apocryphal procs, arguably something much more dangerous than mere Decimation! And again, it goes well with the preference of the thread which seems to be delegation. Adorie is extremely suited to rulership and not very useful in combat, and this allows Gisena a free hand for her own development in the future! Considering how much of an asset she has been so far, I wouldn't discount that.

Now that we have chosen Chains, future potential is at a premium. Getting this right now is totally worth the risk, especially considering we can use our PD for more mitigation, allowing an expanded selection of Hunt targets! In many ways, we have quite a few hedges against the risk as well, like going Hunting in a monster infested-zone instead of a populated one. Well planned gambles can have great rewards.

This is completely worth it. The characterization is literally how we've been playing Hunger so far, it's not likely to change no matter what we choose! So let's turn it into as much of an asset as possible, yes? No need to fight what is basically our own intuition at this point. Effort can be better spent somewhere else.
 
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The biggest problem, for me, is the recklessness. What happens during timeskips, when Hunger isn't being spoon fed the very stuff of heroism by a bunch of outside readers? If you iterate this decision making process over time, you don't end up with a successful person. You don't end up with a living hero. And you most certainly don't end up with dead Hidden Ones.


To make things concrete, let's be generous and say that Hunger only has a 10% chance of allowing the Decimator to proc without being sated. He's going to have to do this every month for the next octillion years or whatever the indenture period is, and the cost for letting it proc only rises with his power. This translates to SO MANY dead people. It's a really really bad long term strategy/avenue for character growth. Just because we've made poor decisions in the past doesn't mean we should double down on them.
 
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We set Hunger's effectiveness and such during epilogue through our own actions. We establish a baseline effectiviness during this quest; then he'll stay at that level once quest is finished.

Hunger is not going to suddenly drop from EFB-Every-Week tier Cursebearer to the Literally Nothing-tier Cursebearer once we let go of him. Nameless, for example, was supposed to be pretty wild in the post-game time period, IIRC. Same was applied to the pretty much every single Rihaku protagonist of every single finished Rihaku quest. Hunger likewise will keep the raw talent and dedication that made his gameplay style viable; stuff that gets marked as intristic part of his characteris not going to just fall off.
 
The biggest problem, for me, is the recklessness. What happens duskips, when Hunger isn't being spoon fed the very stuff of heroism by a bunch of outside readers? If you iterate this decision making process over time, you don't end up with a successful person. You don't end up with a living hero. And you most certainly don't end up with dead Hidden Ones.


To make things concrete, let's be generous and say that Hunger only has a 10% chance of allowing the Decimator to proc without being sated. He's going to have to do this every month for the next octillion years or whatever the indenture period is, and the cost for letting it proc only rises with his power. This translates to SO MANY dead people. It's a really really bad long term strategy/avenue for character growth. Just because we've made poor decisions in the past doesn't mean we should double down on them.

That won't be happening because we should be able to get pillars before any time skips start. Once we have it Decimator, while not completely dealt with will be far less of an issue. If tower wins then we'll be far more incentivized to take evening sky upgrades. Pillars was already great and it would become even better. There is almost no reason why we shouldn't take it. It literally solves all of our build and pick issues. There is always a chance Decimator will start up again sometimes but even with King that's still an issue. We can cover up Hungers flaws but they will still always be there. Better to lean into his abilities and exploit them for more gain. There is not much that can be done for recklessness other than preparation but Pillars would at least help with satiating Hungers greed.
 
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