A Little Trouble in Big China - A Chinese Warlord Quest

[VoidZero]

I mean, as you can see by my profile image, I'm a commie, just a democratic one, not a Bolshevic. I'd just prefer any sort of democracy to dictatorship, and don't want to push my luck.

Could you just exile them south instead? I'd have no problem paying for the trip.

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You sure? I mean it will make my reputation less bloody but we might be in a worldly recession, which means plenty of unemployment; if you are sure you can keep a red surge from toppling your government.

 

[DanBaque]

You sure? I mean it will make my reputation less bloody but we might be in a worldly recession, which means plenty of unemployment; if you are sure you can keep a red surge from toppling your government.

Click to shrink...

Historically, the Kuomintang had no trouble alllying with the CPC until after Sun died, and in any case, many of the Reds in Manchuria where actually Blacks (anarchists) which are unlikely to ally with the CPC, given the fact that Lenin purged the anarchists in the Ukraine.

Edit: and the fact that they where historically partially purged by stalinists.

 

[DanBaque]

@Dadarian : How can I get more options to support; that is, if I wanted to be able to get, say, Wang Yingwei as an option, would I have to promote him to a position of influence in my proposal?

 

[Miner249er]

[X] Zhang Zuolin
-[X] Land of Opportunities
Manchuria has vast fallow fields, untouched forests, and underutilized mines; all these wealth not put to good use. Form resource companies with highly paid British advisors to attract employees and investors from Coastline China and abroad to develop these resources. The resource companies shall have Zhang faction as major stakeholder and compliant to Zhang faction law (as in labour gets paid on time and have family supporting wage.) Also setup small technical school for our budding factories, get the owners to sponsor so they actually make uniformed goods. The resources should also keep our factories fed and ensure competitiveness in all markets .Reach out to the Sun faction in the south for this deal in green. "Advocating Manchuria as land of opportunities for labours and investors alike in coastal China area in exchange for opening shipping lanes for Zhang faction industrial goods and resources with decent discount as well as migration to Manchuria" Authorize Xueliang to plan and launch bandits hunting campaigns within Manchuria with aim of improving Zhang Faction reputation and affirming Xueliang as heir. Setup "office for specialist and talents" as intelligence and counter espionage service under Zuolin's direct command in effort to increase internal security, start small and recruit Zhang loyalist.

 

[Dadarian]

@Dadarian Which areas does Zhang faction actually have control over? Cause I want the entire Manchuria (less foreign controlled part) unified under Zhang. Also, how developed are the resources sector in Manchuria; can I pitch land of opportunities at coastal China and post war Europe for new taxpayers/manpower?

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Zhang controls historical Manchuria in the dark teal, although Japan directly controls the Manchurian railroads and polices and/or otherwise occupies the slashed through portions of Manchuria. Japan supports the White Russians and are friendly with the Qing, so Zhang's been tolerated.

@Dadarian : How can I get more options to support; that is, if I wanted to be able to get, say, Wang Yingwei as an option, would I have to promote him to a position of influence in my proposal?

Click to shrink...

More options pop up as warlords die off, individuals take advantage of situations, and through orders. For example, Chiang Kai-shek and Cao Kun have joined this turn, while Long Jiguang has been relegated in the past. You can promote Wang Yingwei if you desire, however there are risks as with any and every plan.

 

[Balaur]

Sun Yat-sen:[X]Sun Yat-sen:
Development:
Push for land reform, in two ways: One: landlords with land that has been improductive for more than a month will have that land nationalized, and it will then be rented to farmers without land, two permit farmers to take land from their old landlords, to either own the land as a group, forming village cooperatives, or to divide the expropiated land between themselves in the manner that they choose (Should the landlord be killed, then the killers shall be judged). Expand the number of granaries and attempt to create a surplus of food in case of famine. Establish a central bank in Canton. Expand tertiary education, and invest more in primary and secondary eductaion, creating Pedagogical Missions. Pass generous iundustrial safety laws.
Politics:
Expand the newspaper industry, and attempt to increase the number of literature and propaganda read by both civilians in our side as in the Qing controlled or aligned parts of China. Further democratize the government, and push for greater independence of the judiciary.
Military:
Offer bandit leaders pardons in exchange for joining the army. Try out the new guns Shanghai has provided us , and see if the are easier to produce. Attempt an offensive north, now that the monarchists are internally divided.
Diplomacy:
Increase the number of people trying to gain support from chinese inmigrants in the USA, Malaya and Siam. Increase trade with Siam, and try to trade with Iran and the Reds. Attempt to import the necessary materials and tools for the mechanization of agriculture, through Siam (give them money to buy from whom they choose and have them give a part of what they buy to us)and the Reds.

 

[Terrafirma]

[X]Sun Yat-sen
Development:

Spoiler

Push for land reform, in two ways: One: landlords with land that has been improductive for more than a month will have that land nationalized, and it will then be rented to farmers without land, two permit farmers to take land from their old landlords, to either own the land as a group, forming village cooperatives, or to divide the expropiated land between themselves in the manner that they choose (Should the landlord be killed, then the killers shall be judged). Expand the number of granaries and attempt to create a surplus of food in case of famine. Establish a central bank in Canton. Expand tertiary education, and invest more in primary and secondary eductaion, creating Pedagogical Missions. Pass generous iundustrial safety laws.
Politics:
Expand the newspaper industry, and attempt to increase the number of literature and propaganda read by both civilians in our side as in the Qing controlled or aligned parts of China. Further democratize the government, and push for greater independence of the judiciary.
Military:
Offer bandit leaders pardons in exchange for joining the army. Try out the new guns Shanghai has provided us , and see if the are easier to produce. Attempt an offensive north, now that the monarchists are internally divided.
Diplomacy:
Increase the number of people trying to gain support from chinese inmigrants in the USA, Malaya and Siam. Increase trade with Siam, and try to trade with Iran and the Reds. Attempt to import the necessary materials and tools for the mechanization of agriculture, through Siam (give them money to buy from whom they choose and have them give a part of what they buy to us)and the Reds

 

[VoidZero]

Zhang controls historical Manchuria in the dark teal, although Japan directly controls the Manchurian railroads and polices and/or otherwise occupies the slashed through portions of Manchuria. Japan supports the White Russians and are friendly with the Qing, so Zhang's been tolerated.

Click to shrink...

So Zhang's self strengthening plans means more Japanese attention. I'm screwed either way i guess. You southerners better move faster else industrial and resource base is gibbed. (Not that i'm going to join up with a Republic willingly.) >:3

 

[ThatGuyWithIdeas]

[X] Sun Yat-sen
Development:
Push for land reform, in two ways: One: landlords with land that has been improductive for more than a month will have that land nationalized, and it will then be rented to farmers without land, two permit farmers to take land from their old landlords, to either own the land as a group, forming village cooperatives, or to divide the expropiated land between themselves in the manner that they choose (Should the landlord be killed, then the killers shall be judged). Expand the number of granaries and attempt to create a surplus of food in case of famine. Establish a central bank in Canton. Expand tertiary education, and invest more in primary and secondary eductaion, creating Pedagogical Missions. Pass generous iundustrial safety laws.
Politics:
Expand the newspaper industry, and attempt to increase the number of literature and propaganda read by both civilians in our side as in the Qing controlled or aligned parts of China. Further democratize the government, and push for greater independence of the judiciary.
Military:
Offer bandit leaders pardons in exchange for joining the army. Try out the new guns Shanghai has provided us , and see if the are easier to produce. Attempt an offensive north, now that the monarchists are internally divided. Create a subdeparment of the military, called the National Bureau of Investigation and Statistics (Military Commission), and give them a very small budget to start with. It is to be formed by educated men and loyal soldiers. Further, ask Du Yuesheng to recommend some men that would be useful (although, as a matter of policy, do not allow them to rise too high, as their loyalty is suspect). Charge them all with rooting out spies (but not political dissidents, and they are not allowed to infiltrate political organizations or labour unions) and expanding our knowledge of what is happening in all of China. If they are able to steal technical information and get away with it, they are to do this also.
Diplomacy:
Increase the number of people trying to gain support from chinese inmigrants in the USA, Malaya and Siam. Increase trade with Siam, and try to trade with Iran and the Reds. Attempt to import the necessary materials and tools for the mechanization of agriculture, through Siam (give them money to buy from whom they choose and have them give a part of what they buy to us)and the Reds. Advocate Manchuria as land of opportunities for labours and investors alike in coastal China area in exchange for opening shipping lanes for Zhang faction industrial goods and resources with decent discount as well as migration to Manchuria

 

[VoidZero]

[X] Zhang Zuolin
-[X] Land of Opportunities
Manchuria has vast fallow fields, untouched forests, and underutilized mines; all these wealth not put to good use. Form resource companies with highly paid British advisors to attract employees and investors from Coastline China and abroad to develop these resources. The resource companies shall have Zhang faction as major stakeholder and compliant to Zhang faction law (as in labour gets paid on time and have family supporting wage.) Also setup small technical school for our budding factories, get the owners to sponsor so they actually make uniformed goods. The resources should also keep our factories fed and ensure competitiveness in all markets .Reach out to the Sun faction in the south for this deal in green. "Advocating Manchuria as land of opportunities for labours and investors alike in coastal China area in exchange for opening shipping lanes for Zhang faction industrial goods and resources with decent discount as well as migration to Manchuria" Authorize Xueliang to plan and launch bandits hunting campaigns within Manchuria with aim of improving Zhang Faction reputation and affirming Xueliang as heir. Setup "office for specialist and talents" as intelligence and counter espionage service under Zuolin's direct command in effort to increase internal security, start small and recruit Zhang loyalist. Send messages to white Russia nobility and high ruler, informing them the hospitality they can expect from their friendly southern neighbor and safe passage should they "happen" to travel abroad. Also send shipments of "donation" (military goods) for a friendly request to annul treaties Russia had with China in totality.

Click to shrink...

@Atlanta-Georgia @Miner249er

Note that i added the deal with Sun as well as a part in the end to get White Russia survivors out of Russia in return for their past support and annulling past treaty Russia had with China.

 

[kilopi505]

...ok. So Drug reform is no go.

...ok. Let's do something else.

 

[Exterminatus]

[X] Sun Yat-sen
Development:
Push for land reform, in two ways: One: landlords with land that has been improductive for more than a month will have that land nationalized, and it will then be rented to farmers without land, two permit farmers to take land from their old landlords, to either own the land as a group, forming village cooperatives, or to divide the expropiated land between themselves in the manner that they choose (Should the landlord be killed, then the killers shall be judged). Expand the number of granaries and attempt to create a surplus of food in case of famine. Establish a central bank in Canton. Expand tertiary education, and invest more in primary and secondary eductaion, creating Pedagogical Missions. Pass generous iundustrial safety laws.
Politics:
Expand the newspaper industry, and attempt to increase the number of literature and propaganda read by both civilians in our side as in the Qing controlled or aligned parts of China. Further democratize the government, and push for greater independence of the judiciary.
Military:
Offer bandit leaders pardons in exchange for joining the army. Try out the new guns Shanghai has provided us , and see if the are easier to produce. Attempt an offensive north, now that the monarchists are internally divided. Create a subdeparment of the military, called the National Bureau of Investigation and Statistics (Military Commission), and give them a very small budget to start with. It is to be formed by educated men and loyal soldiers. Further, ask Du Yuesheng to recommend some men that would be useful (although, as a matter of policy, do not allow them to rise too high, as their loyalty is suspect). Charge them all with rooting out spies (but not political dissidents, and they are not allowed to infiltrate political organizations or labour unions) and expanding our knowledge of what is happening in all of China. If they are able to steal technical information and get away with it, they are to do this also.
Diplomacy:
Increase the number of people trying to gain support from chinese inmigrants in the USA, Malaya and Siam. Increase trade with Siam, and try to trade with Iran and the Reds. Attempt to import the necessary materials and tools for the mechanization of agriculture, through Siam (give them money to buy from whom they choose and have them give a part of what they buy to us)and the Reds. Advocate Manchuria as land of opportunities for labours and investors alike in coastal China area in exchange for opening shipping lanes for Zhang faction industrial goods and resources with decent discount as well as migration to Manchuria
​

 

[Mask]

...ok. So Drug reform is no go.

...ok. Let's do something else.

Click to shrink...

I would like to once again suggest weapons smuggling. We can start building ties with foreign crime syndicates to get them here faster and cheaper than our competitors. It would help supply our allies and provide another revenue stream. I think doing that and furthering ties with Sun Yat-sen is crucial to the continued survival of the Tongs. We will never have enough men to oppose the other warlords but we can make it too painful for them to root us out.

 

[kilopi505]

[X] Du "Big-Eared Du" Yuesheng: Han mob boss and who has a controlling interest in Shanghai and worked with elements of the Republicans. Ties with elements of the Chinese Revolutionary Party (Kemingtang). Warlord of the Shanghai Clique (?).

Development:

Establish the "Green World" Shipping and Trading Corporation, with Du Yuesheng as the CEO and the investors as much of the Tong leaders and members of Shanghai as possible. This corporation shall serve as the avenue of selling arms to the KMT at affordable marked up prices, as well as luxury goods and important bulk imports that China needs.

Inquire with the other Tong bosses as to their opinions on legalizing prostitution and establishing standards on what is accepted and what isn't accepted, and then creating another corporation that would openly own the brothels once prostitution is legalized, so that the income would benefit all the mobs of Shanghai.

Inquire the KMT when the first elections would be held. In preparation for that, inquire with the Tong bosses as for the feasibility of giving working women suffrage, in anticipation of having all the prostitutes of Shanghai vote for Green Gang supported candidates as a block.

Establish another Tong owned corporation, this time one that will own and build clinics all throughout Shanghai, with the aim of having Shanghai also get called "The City of Doctors" in China, wherein rich patients from all over China would go for medical treatment.

Establish a foreign language learning program, by hiring foreign prostitutes working in Shanghai as teachers. Offer them Chinese citizenship, free checkups at the clinics and free matchmaking with Chinese men acceptable to them. The aim is to open up more opportunities for the Shanghai Tong.


Women's Suffrage and Legalization and Standardization (a.k.a. Child prostitution begone!) of Prostitution ho!

 

[Mask]

[X] Du "Big-Eared Du" Yuesheng: Han mob boss and who has a controlling interest in Shanghai and worked with elements of the Republicans. Ties with elements of the Chinese Revolutionary Party (Kemingtang). Warlord of the Shanghai Clique (?).

Development:

Establish the "Green World" Shipping and Trading Corporation, with Du Yuesheng as the CEO and the investors as much of the Tong leaders and members of Shanghai as possible. This corporation shall serve as the avenue of selling arms to the KMT at affordable marked up prices, as well as luxury goods and important bulk imports that China might need.

Inquire with the other Tong bosses as to their opinions on legalizing prostitution and establishing standards on what is accepted and what isn't accepted, and then creating another corporation that would openly own the brothels once prostitution is legalized, so that the income would benefit all the mobs of Shanghai.

Inquire the KMT when the first elections would be held. In preparation for that, inquire with the Tong bosses as for the feasibility of giving working women suffrage, in anticipation of having all the prostitutes of Shanghai vote for Green Gang supported candidates as a block.

Establish another Tong owned corporation, this time one that will own and build clinics all throughout Shanghai, with the aim of having Shanghai also get called "The City of Doctors" in China, wherein rich patients from all over China would go for medical treatment.

Establish a foreign language learning program, by hiring foreign prostitutes working in Shanghai as teachers. Offer them Chinese citizenship, free checkups at the clinics and free matchmaking with Chinese men acceptable to them. The aim is to open up more opportunities for the Shanghai Tong.

 

[Helher]

[X] Sun Yat-sen
Development:
Push for land reform, in two ways: One: landlords with land that has been improductive for more than a month will have that land nationalized, and it will then be rented to farmers without land, two permit farmers to take land from their old landlords, to either own the land as a group, forming village cooperatives, or to divide the expropiated land between themselves in the manner that they choose (Should the landlord be killed, then the killers shall be judged). Expand the number of granaries and attempt to create a surplus of food in case of famine. Establish a central bank in Canton. Expand tertiary education, and invest more in primary and secondary eductaion, creating Pedagogical Missions. Pass generous iundustrial safety laws.
Politics:
Expand the newspaper industry, and attempt to increase the number of literature and propaganda read by both civilians in our side as in the Qing controlled or aligned parts of China. Further democratize the government, and push for greater independence of the judiciary.
Military:
Offer bandit leaders pardons in exchange for joining the army. Try out the new guns Shanghai has provided us , and see if the are easier to produce. Attempt an offensive north, now that the monarchists are internally divided. Create a subdeparment of the military, called the National Bureau of Investigation and Statistics (Military Commission), and give them a very small budget to start with. It is to be formed by educated men and loyal soldiers. Further, ask Du Yuesheng to recommend some men that would be useful (although, as a matter of policy, do not allow them to rise too high, as their loyalty is suspect). Charge them all with rooting out spies (but not political dissidents, and they are not allowed to infiltrate political organizations or labour unions) and expanding our knowledge of what is happening in all of China. If they are able to steal technical information and get away with it, they are to do this also.
Diplomacy:
Increase the number of people trying to gain support from chinese inmigrants in the USA, Malaya and Siam. Increase trade with Siam, and try to trade with Iran and the Reds. Attempt to import the necessary materials and tools for the mechanization of agriculture, through Siam (give them money to buy from whom they choose and have them give a part of what they buy to us)and the Reds. Advocate Manchuria as land of opportunities for labours and investors alike in coastal China area in exchange for opening shipping lanes for Zhang faction industrial goods and resources with decent discount as well as migration to Manchuria

 

[kilopi505]

@Dadarian, question in regards to the Hall Rifle.

In my vote, I said 'send the plans to the KMT' So where did this 'create an old gun' wording came from? The KMT are supposed to create the guns themselves, not the Tongs!

Anyone for Women's Suffrage and Prostitution Legalization and Regulation, vote Big Ear Du!

 

[Shaseyu]

[X] Zhang Zuolin
-[X] Land of Opportunities
Manchuria has vast fallow fields, untouched forests, and underutilized mines; all these wealth not put to good use. Form resource companies with highly paid British advisors to attract employees and investors from Coastline China and abroad to develop these resources. The resource companies shall have Zhang faction as major stakeholder and compliant to Zhang faction law (as in labour gets paid on time and have family supporting wage.) Also setup small technical school for our budding factories, get the owners to sponsor so they actually make uniformed goods. The resources should also keep our factories fed and ensure competitiveness in all markets .Reach out to the Sun faction in the south for this deal in green. "Advocating Manchuria as land of opportunities for labours and investors alike in coastal China area in exchange for opening shipping lanes for Zhang faction industrial goods and resources with decent discount as well as migration to Manchuria" Authorize Xueliang to plan and launch bandits hunting campaigns within Manchuria with aim of improving Zhang Faction reputation and affirming Xueliang as heir. Setup "office for specialist and talents" as intelligence and counter espionage service under Zuolin's direct command in effort to increase internal security, start small and recruit Zhang loyalist. Send messages to white Russia nobility and high ruler, informing them the hospitality they can expect from their friendly southern neighbor and safe passage should they "happen" to travel abroad. Also send shipments of "donation" (military goods) for a friendly request to annul treaties Russia had with China in totality.

 

[kilopi505]

Anyone for Shanghai Clique?! Anyone for Shanghai Clique?!

Anyone for Women's Suffrage and Legalization and Standardization/Regulation of Prostitution! Vote for Big Ear Du!

Oh. @Dadarian, about my question earlier?

 

[Dadarian]

@Dadarian, question in regards to the Hall Rifle.

In my vote, I said 'send the plans to the KMT' So where did this 'create an old gun' wording came from? The KMT are supposed to create the guns themselves, not the Tongs!

Click to shrink...

Oh. @Dadarian, about my question earlier?

Click to shrink...

I misread your plan. It's been edited to remove domestic Tong attempts to build the rifle and added the result of the turnover. I read too fast in my excitement to write sometimes. Thank you for pointing out the mistake.

Also I live on Pacific Standard Time, so I'm fairly behind everyone else. Pinging me repeatedly on a single issue is a pet peeve, please refrain from doing so in the future.

 

[VoidZero]

That adjusted part for Republic to roll out american rifles displeases me. Now I need to find other ways to make money gain tech advantage goodwill.

@Dadarian Are Manchurian Banner Army using standardized rifles and machine guns? How large is the military production, can it produce artillery and its shells on top of small arms? Also, what's the official relationship between Zhang Faction and Qing court?

 

[Dadarian]

That adjusted part for Republic to roll out american rifles displeases me. Now I need to find other ways to make money gain tech advantage goodwill.

@Dadarian Are Manchurian Banner Army using standardized rifles and machine guns? How large is the military production, can it produce artillery and its shells on top of small arms? Also, what's the official relationship between Zhang Faction and Qing court?

Click to shrink...

No. To preempt further question, no army is using standardised anything within any Chinese army. The military can produce artillery and shells yes, but there quality and safety leaves much to be desired. The official relationship between the two factions are cordial mutual disinterest. You are in all forms an autonomous governor operating with the implicit consent of Beijing. This can change however.

 

[DanBaque]

More options pop up as warlords die off, individuals take advantage of situations, and through orders. For example, Chiang Kai-shek and Cao Kun have joined this turn, while Long Jiguang has been relegated in the past. You can promote Wang Yingwei if you desire, however there are risks as with any and every plan.

Click to shrink...

Thanks, Dadarian.

@Helher ,@Exterminatus ,@ThatGuyWithIdeas ,@Terrafirma ,@Balaur ,@JbeJ275 ,@LonelyWolf999 :

Lets plan for the future: who do you support as a heir to Sun?
I'll propose some options, but feel free to add anyone.
-Chiang: He's in Shanghai, so unlikely. Would mean a long dictatorship. Intelligent, in favour of modernization in order to be able to fight the Japanese. Had a lot of problems with corruption.
-Soong Ching-Ling: one of the leaders of the 1911 revolution. Very left-leaning (left the KMT after the expulsion of the Communists) but likely only to the point of the Minsheng Ideal. Very interested in peoples welfare and increasing the quality of life. It will be more difficult to make her the heir, as she is a woman in the 1920s.
-Tang Shaoyi: Well educated in the USA. Very concerned with the rule of law and constitutional normality- he left his friend Yuan Shikai due to his dictatorial conduct, and also left Sun because he named himself "Extraordinary President". He could be a very good head of State for impartiality and legal normality.
-Mao Zedong: Everybody knows him. Currently in Beijing. The best way to recruit/groom him would be to attempt to get his University under our influence, or, as historically, advance to control the area he is in. At this point, he is extremely in favour of democracy and workers rights. Given enough time in power, he will turn highly authoritarian and paranoid.
-Wang Jingwei: Of the leftist faction of the KMT, he was influenced by anarchism. Already has some fame, and has a history of fighting for China. Extremely pessimistic about war with Japan, he would be a problem if one started (it will, eventually). This pessimism led him to be the leader of the Japanes collaborationist government- although he did it in order to help Chinese civilians as much as he could.
- Liao Zhongkai: principal architect of the historical First United Front between the KMT and CCP. Head of the department of labor, of peasants and of finance in succession. A proponent of continuing Suns pro-Soviet policies until his assasination by the right faction of the KMT.

 

[Taut_Templar]

Lets plan for the future: who do you support as a heir to Sun?

Click to shrink...

It looks like the two real options are Tang Shaoyi and Liao Zhongkai. Soong Ching-Ling has promise, but the whole 'woman' thing is probably a deal breaker. Wang Jingwei might be a canidate, but the whole defeatism thing doesn't speak well for his ability to take the punishment needed from a head of state.

 

[JbeJ275]

Tang Shaoyi, I think stability and regular sensible governance is what we need.