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A Light from the Shadow (Tolkien CKII)

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I'm changing vote for:

-[X] Demand that the orcs retreat, andwarn them that if any orc raises a blade to a dwarf henceforth, that orc dies.
-[X] But, if they chose to serve you, they will be rewarded.
--[X] Continue killing and browbeatingorcs until the army disintegrates or swears itself to you.
--[X] Parley with dwarves.
 
-[X] Demand that the orcs retreat, and warn them that if any orc raises a blade to a dwarf henceforth, that orc dies.
--[X] Continue killing and browbeating orcs until the army disintegrates.
--[X] Parley with dwarves.
 
Nevill said:
I may have mistook the user's intent for actual vote.

Yeah, pretty much what I want to do is to kill and supplant their leadership, then guide the rest.

I suppose that could be done afterwards after we scatter them, as their choices in dwarven Moria will be limited to following us or extinction by dwarven hands.

-[X] Demand that the orcs retreat, andwarn them that if any orc raises a blade to a dwarf henceforth, that orc dies.
-[X] But, if they chose to serve you, they will be rewarded.
--[X] Continue killing and browbeatingorcs until the army disintegrates or swears itself to you.
--[X] Parley with dwarves.
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Ya, I was being satirical. I do think bribery is unnecessary,however. Our "battleform" comes with the sort of implied threat the orcs should already catch up on, with the reward being we don't kill them.
 
ThoughtMaster said:
Look at it this way, nowhere in middle earth has this happened before. In fact, I doubt anyone, even fellow Mala had ever even imagined one twisted by Morgoth as greatly as a Balrog being able to return to the grace of Eru. The only thing more impossible than this is a dragon, beings created purely from Morgoth's power, and not even having a true soul coming into Eru's graces. Imagine the tales told, the legends written about a demon of destruction from the wars of the first era returning as a great hero. ... Should we give him the nickname Razgriz?
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Actually, the Vala and Maia, being good people, are fundamentally incapable of believing that evil can't be redeemed. That's why they were fooled by Melkor when he surrendered and paid penance in Valinor; they thought he'd genuinely had a change of heart. And Sauron, though he feared the penance he'd have to pay when Morgoth was defeated at the end of the War of Wrath, knew that he could go to Valinor and try to find redemption.

The Ainur are virtually always willing to forgive, provided you seek forgivness and pay for your deeds. So the weird part about this is mostly that our balrog has genuinely converted instead of pretending so the Ainu get off his back.
 
While it's true you should note that Melkor and Sauron have a bit soured the Valar on that point. They are now aware people can feign redemption.

Also while tragic, Nienna would understand that sometimes it's better to start with a new generation of people. Orcs are in such state that it's mercy to kill them (provided you do that as cleanly as possible) and to send them to their ultimate fate.
 
-[X] Demand that the orcs retreat, and warn them that if any orc raises a blade to a dwarf henceforth, that orc dies.
-[X] But, if they chose to serve you, they will be rewarded.
--[X] Continue killing and browbeatingorcs until the army disintegrates or swears itself to you.
--[X] Parley with dwarves.

FUN times ahead?
 
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-[X] Demand that the orcs retreat, and warn them that if any orc raises a blade to a dwarf henceforth, that orc dies.
-[X] But, if they chose to serve you, they will be rewarded.
--[X] Continue killing and browbeatingorcs until the army disintegrates or swears itself to you.
--[X] Parley with dwarves.
 
-[X] Demand that the orcs retreat, and warn them that if any orc raises a blade to a dwarf henceforth, that orc dies.
-[X] But, if they chose to serve you, they will be rewarded.
--[X] Continue killing and browbeatingorcs until the army disintegrates or swears itself to you.
--[X] Parley with dwarves.
 
ganonso said:
Also while tragic, Nienna would understand that sometimes it's better to start with a new generation of people. Orcs are in such state that it's mercy to kill them (provided you do that as cleanly as possible) and to send them to their ultimate fate.
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That's actually a huge relief. I was a little worried that we'd get bitchslapped by an angry god if we go for the "burn them all, let Eru sort them out" solution.
 
It is still completely unnecessary to kill the orcs due to our char gen choices.

Pros: Shadow and Flame: You are the most individually powerful being on Middle-Earth with the exception of Sauron. You tower over your troops like a vast shadow wreathed by flame, only blades forged by the Elves can harm you and you can defeat all but the most powerful lords of the Firstborn. As a being a primeval shadow, the creatures of Melkor tend to obey you instinctively.
Cons: Broken Instruments: The Moria Goblins are willful but not the smartest of Orc breeds, even in the ruins of the dwarves you will struggle to build a civilizaiton worthy of the name and of use against the armies of Mordor. Also surrounded by Orcs you cand dominate at your leisure, you are in danger of relapsing.

Together both of these pretty much guarantees that when we say "Jump" Azog and company will be halfway in the air before we finish the command.
 
Vote tally:


[X] Kill Azog and finish the rest of the Orc Army
No. of votes: 18
Derek58, EVA-Saiyajin, DragonParadox, Chimeraguard, Isaacssv558, kelllogo, Dark Abstraction, Finagle007, Night_stalker, HanEmpire, Gavoon, Chief18753, jamie96969, Edkose, Edonran, Derekc2, hcvquizibo, horgoz

[x] Kill Azog
-[X] Demand that the Orcs serve you now.
--[X] Kill any that refuse.
---[X] Repeat until all the Orcs left have sworn themselves to you.
No. of votes: 3
BCK233, HeWhoAdds, avatar11792

[X] Dominate all within our sight with the magnitude of our power in order to stop the fighting.
No. of votes: 1
Kaferian

[X] Fight the Dwarves
No. of votes: 1
Zoxabels

[X] Dramatically kill Azog.
-[X] Demand that the orcs retreat, and warn them that if any orc raises a blade to a dwarf henceforth, that orc dies.
--[X] Continue killing and browbeating orcs until the army disintegrates.
No. of votes: 1
Mithrandir

-[X] Demand that the orcs retreat, and warn them that if any orc raises a blade to a dwarf henceforth, that orc dies.
--[X] Continue killing and browbeating orcs until the army disintegrates.
--[X] Parley with dwarves.
No. of votes: 9
The king Chad, durin, Iandude0, King Arthur, Skewfiend, NthBelisarius, Karwelas, Void Stalker, thepsyborg

-[X] Demand that the orcs retreat, andwarn them that if any orc raises a blade to a dwarf henceforth, that orc dies.
-[X] But, if they chose to serve you, they will be rewarded.
--[X] Continue killing and browbeatingorcs until the army disintegrates or swears itself to you.
--[X] Parley with dwarves.
No. of votes: 6
Dark Ness, Nevill, lavanderjasmine, Salbazier, LOLROFL, UbeOne

Kill the Orcs win
 
ganonso said:
Vote tally:

Kill the Orcs win
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isn't it equal though? 18 for Kill all of the Orcs and another 18 for Kill Azog and then negotiate with the Orcs and if that fails then kill them?

I mean all of the plans that involve negotiating with the orcs are basically the same plan with maybe just a little bit of nuance or different wording?
 
Yup.

We gun go kill dem orcses what work for uzz.

Compassionately!

Then we be all lik...

"YO SHORTY! Sorry fer killen all you people an kikin you out yer home....but we'zes gud now what I kilt dem bad orcses, Right?"
 
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Prologue 3
  • Threadmarks
    • Thoughts course through your mind. Even if you have promised to Nienna you would do your utmost to redeem Orcs, you know that trying to do that in the middle of a battle would be folly. To let the dwarves to be slaughtered would be madness as well, as you desire no more war between the Children and you. Moreover, you never liked Azog anyway, this Boldog-spawn has brought this entire war on himself. You doubt the dwarves would have raised such a fuss if their king had simply disappeared in the depths of Khazad-dum like so many explorers. Instead Azog pointlessly antagonized them and threw his subjects and most of the orcs of the Misty Mountains into the fray to no avail.

    You reveal your presence, dread shadowy body clad in scarlet flames just behind Azog and his bodyguards. You dispense with any pretense of fairness and slaughter them as they stand under the astonished gaze of the dwarven units that advanced to the gate. You cast the charred corpse of the orc-chieftain to them with a smile and proceed to beat the orcish horde by yourself. None of them understand why they die and you mourn their losses but each of them reeks of atrocity and slaughter, in their footprints you can hear the cry of burned villages and tormented souls. Rather begin with a new generation. It will be difficult enough to overcome the taint of Melkor dark desire in innocents. Still your thoughts ask for forgiveness, for your patron to understand that you have no choice but to do this.

    The battle end quickly and you see your intervention preserved most of the dwarven army. What you choose to do with them will be another problem entirely. Nain who accompanied Thror to this very gates is still alive and is as surprised of the rest of his army to see you. Instictively you forsake your dread fana and let yourself be clad in flesh for the first time of your life.

    Your back is bent, your robes are violet as mourning. A simple staff has appeared in your hands, as much a part of you as your new aching bones. Nain still clad in steel and iron, axe in hands approaches you and ask you this dread question:

    "Who are you, to emerge like this from Khazad-dum?"

    What do you answer

    [] I am Durin's Bane now redeemed and ready to pay my debt to your race. I will welcome you in the halls of your ancestors now nearly pure for Nienna sister of he you call Mahal has smiled on me and sent me to right old wrong.

    [] I am a servant of the Mourner and these ruined halls are to be the crucible of the redemption of the orcish race. So speak the Powers. If you want to reclaim them, you shall stay your hands from the orcs that still live here for they have done no wrong to you or yours.

    [] I am a servant of the Powers, sent to right old wrongs and redeem those beyond redemption. I leave you these empty halls if you want them and will simply guide the orcs that live here and done no wrong to the Children to a new home.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • [x] I am a servant of the Mourner and these ruined halls are to be the crucible of the redemption of the orcish race. So speak the Powers. If you want to reclaim them, you shall stay your hands from the orcs that still live here for they have done no wrong to you or yours.
     
    [X] I am Durin's Bane now redeemed and ready to pay my debt to your race. I will welcome you in the halls of your ancestors now nearly pure for Nienna sister of he you call Mahal has smiled on me and sent me to right old wrong.

    No lies. That is Saruman's way and Sauron's.

    Moreover it is better to reveal the truth now so it won't bite us later.
     
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    [x] I am a servant of the Mourner and these ruined halls are to be the crucible of the redemption of the orcish race. So speak the Powers. If you want to reclaim them, you shall stay your hands from the orcs that still live here for they have done no wrong to you or yours.
     
    [X] I am Durin's Bane now redeemed and ready to pay my debt to your race. I will welcome you in the halls of your ancestors now nearly pure for Nienna sister of he you call Mahal has smiled on me and sent me to right old wrong.
     
    [X] I am a servant of the Mourner and these ruined halls are to be the crucible of the redemption of the orcish race. So speak the Powers. If you want to reclaim them, you shall stay your hands from the orcs that still live here for they have done no wrong to you or yours.
     
    [x] I am a servant of the Powers, sent to right old wrongs and redeem those beyond redemption. I leave you these empty halls if you want them and will simply guide the orcs that live here and done no wrong to the Children to a new home.
     
    [X] I am a servant of the Mourner and these ruined halls are to be the crucible of the redemption of the orcish race. So speak the Powers. If you want to reclaim them, you shall stay your hands from the orcs that still live here for they have done no wrong to you or yours.
     
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