A Finely Honed Blade [Worm/Kara no Kyoukai | Garden of Sinners]

[Ferrite]

Are we sure Scion have one, he is just a random dude from his race so he isn't a ultimate one, but he does come from a race of sufficiently godlike being so he might lack death as concept.

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Pretty sure that the Entities are aware that they can die(just ask The Warrior what happened to The Thinker). Considering also that they are battling entropy itself, they actually have to recognize death as a thing.

 

[Tzardok]

The problem is that dead seems to mean something different for shards than for mankind. The Eden shards the Cauldron capes use are said to be dead, yet they still are able to act (otherwise there wouldn't be any powers there).

 

[Ferrite]

The problem is that dead seems to mean something different for shards than for mankind. The Eden shards the Cauldron capes use are said to be dead, yet they still are able to act (otherwise there wouldn't be any powers there).

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Think of them as a computer on a battery backup. For as long as the backup has power, the computer will be able to perform its programmed functions. Once the backup runs out of power though...

 

[Tzardok]

Pretty sure that the Entities are aware that they can die(just ask The Warrior what happened to The Thinker). Considering also that they are battling entropy itself, they actually have to recognize death as a thing.

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Lacking the concept of death doesn't mean not knowing about death; it means that you can't die. Death as in the metaphysical concept we as humans know doesn't apply to you.
Type-Mercury, for example, can't be starved, strangled, poisoned or killed through instant death effects like the MEoDP. The only way to "kill" it lies in completely eradicating its body using physical force, and even that doesn't kill it, it just leaves it unable to interact with anything.

One of the things about the Nasuverse is that the physical and metaphysical laws and concepts humanity operates under only are in effect where humanity rules, and if something alien comes from outside it may instead operate under its own rules. And, as already mentioned, death means something else for entities than it does for people, so it is possible that the Mystic Eyes don't work right on them.

 

[Roth963]

Pretty sure that the Entities are aware that they can die(just ask The Warrior what happened to The Thinker). Considering also that they are battling entropy itself, they actually have to recognize death as a thing.

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Entropy is a thing in nasu verse as well, there is no such thing as making something from nothing, with the exception of maybe the first magic, and even there we don't know nearly enough to decide.

Existing forever as bodyless and powerless things once their bodies withered down seem like thing they won't necessarily want to happen to them.

And that is if their reality works remotely like ours, entropy and death might be us trying to explain something so alien using similar terms in our language, we can't be sure if what they are fighting against will even make sense to humanity in nasu verse.

 

[Ferrite]

Well, my only knowledge of nasu is this fic and 2 others(1st being Archer and the other being Essence of Silver and Steel; both found here on SV). I have been basing my statements on those fics. Sorry for any wrong info that I gave, I promise that it wasn't intentional.

 

[The Dude]

Are we sure Scion have one, he is just a random dude from his race so he isn't a ultimate one, but he does come from a race of sufficiently godlike being so he might lack death as concept.

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The Entities in the Wormverse and the Ultimate Ones from the Nasuverse are similar in few ways and different in MANY ways.
They are similar in that they are multi-dimensional and that they are aliens.
They are different in that they follow different Rules of Reality.

The Wormverse is supposed to be a very "Hard Science" reality.
Meaning, the same Laws of Physics as our world, no Gods or Souls or "Eezo"/Plot Mcguffins.
Apparently magic exists in Worm, according to WoG(for whatever that's worth), just nowhere near the Plot.
Also, Entropy affects EVERYTHING. Meaning EVERYTHING eventually dies.

The Nasuverse is in no way a "Hard Science" reality.
In the Nasuverse, Death is a Human Created phenomena.
As in, because enough people believed that you should Die when you are Killed, Conceptual Death came into being for All Earthlings, Retroactively. Thus if you were born, created, built or came into existence on Earth, you were then preloaded with the Concept of Death.
Mortal, Immortal, God, it doesn't matter.
If you are an "Earthling", SOMETHING can kill you.

This does not apply to the Ultimate Ones.
They do not have a Concept of Death.
Because they are not from Earth, thus were not affected by the "Common Sense of Man".
Atlas have something called Black Barrel.
It is metaphorically a hypodermic needle filled with Concept of Death, that can be "injected" into an Ultimate One.
Thus "infecting" them with the "Common Sense of Man", that states Everything Dies eventually.
Only then could you kill an Ultimate One.
Of course, good luck ever accomplishing either of those against an Ultimate One.

The Entities would have the Concept of Death simply due to the fact that they are seeking a solution to Entropy. Mainly so they can have infinite energy to fuel infinite breeding. But they also are seeking a way to avoid "The End" of the Universe. When all the stars die. When the quantum foam flatlines. When all energy in the universe runs out.
They also have anti-Entity weapons.
Otherwise, they wouldn't need to "Protect" so-called "Vital Shards".
The Entities are not one big Shard. They are ALL of the Shards at once, just "Aimed" or directed by the "Vital" Shards.
The problem however, is that to kill an Entities "Vital" shards would be the equivalent to killing the President and all of Congress. It can be done, but they would just be replaced by a new President and new Congressmen. The Country would still be there. Full of people to fill the gap.

It would cause all the other Shards to start competing to place themselves as the next collection of "Vital Shards" and the "Dead" Entity is suddenly "Revived" once a small collection of the "Strongest" and/or "Smartest" Shards are labeled as the new "Vital" Shards.

To Truly kill an Entity, you have to kill ALL of the Shards.
Every. Last. One.
Of the Trillions of them...
Because every one of them is basically a Baby Entity.

MEoDP could do it.
If Taylor could percieve something like that.
Since her Eyes are synched up with her Shard, her brain wouldn't be fried trying to "See" that Death Spot.
More likely?
Taylor would just "Kill" Scion's "Vital Shards" if she stabs him in his Death Spot.
Because those are the Shards that make up Scion.

 

[Roth963]

Apparently magic exists in Worm, according to WoG(for whatever that's worth), just nowhere near the Plot.

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No it isn't I remember that WoG talked about it not being relevant, not it existing or not, and in my opinion if it did the entities will definitely be better than humans at that.

It won't work this way in nasu verse because the more advanced you are, the more paths to magic are closed off, and the entities likely already closed most if not all of their options to magecraft and true magic, which might be one of the reasons for the cycle, opening more ways.

MEoDP could do it.
If Taylor could percieve something like that.
Since her Eyes are synched up with her Shard, her brain wouldn't be fried trying to "See" that Death Spot.
More likely?
Taylor would just "Kill" Scion's "Vital Shards" if she stabs him in his Death Spot.
Because those are the Shards that make up Scion.

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You seem to be under the assumption that entropy being a thing means that the entities must have a concept of death, it isn't true, there is entropy in nasu verse, nothing is created from nothing, this go for aliens too, the entities could have completely different concept, or not have death at all, and their bodies will still wither and be destroyed when they run out of power and they still won't die, the universe has an end in nasu verse, aliens, planets, all of those end, the end is just different for each one.

Stabbing Scion might not work because he doesn't have the concept of death the same way an earthling would, if he had one at all.

 

[The Dude]

Stabbing Scion might not work because he doesn't have the concept of death the same way an earthling would, if he had one at all.

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There is no difference in an Earthling's Concept of Death and an Entity's Concept of Death.
To have a Concept of Death, means to be capable of dieing.
It means SOMETHING can kill you.
Not that EVERYTHING can kill you.
Something.

Like how Alexandria could be Killed be Drowning.
Like how an Endbringer can be Killed by destroying its Core.
Like how some zombies need Headshots to "die", while some other kinds of zombies have to be set on fire until they are ash.

Entities have the Concept of Death, and it was proven twice in Canon.
Once in Contessa's Interlude, before Eden sealed PtV. She Saw how to kill Both Entities, but could only vaguely remember how to kill Eden afterwards.

The second time was when Scion Killed Himself.

The fact that they could die, means they have the Concept of Death.

You might be misunderstanding what the Concept of Death even is.
To have the Concept of Death means you are Conceptually capable of Dieing.
Meaning the moment you came in to existance, you have or will have some kind of fatal weakness.
Whether that be disease, time, fuel, wear&tear, battery life, bullets, bombs, friendship, sunlight, Love, Fire, stakes, bloodloss ect.
It means one, two or many more of things can end your life.

The thing about MEoDP.
It doesn't matter what your weakness is.
It doesn't matter if you can only be killed on the day all the planets align, or if you need to destroy all the Horcrux's, or that you need to theow the ring in the volcano.
If you Can be killed somehow, then someone with Death Perception, can kill you with something sharp and pointy, like a knife.
Stab Voldemort, he dies. End of story.
Did you get his Horcrux's?
Who cares? I stabbbed his Death Spot. He ded.

Scion exists in multiple dimensions and his Shards are the size of continental plates, each.
Taylor stabs a golden toe. He ded. End of Scion.
But what about the Shards?
Who cares? He ded.

It is why I am so impressed by this story.
Mystic Eyes of Death Perception are an absolutely bullshit, OP power.
This SHOULD have been a very short story.
Or a very Boring story.
But OP made a very interesting and lengthy story.

 

[Roth963]

There is no difference in an Earthling's Concept of Death and an Entity's Concept of Death.
To have a Concept of Death, means to be capable of dieing.
It means SOMETHING can kill you.
Not that EVERYTHING can kill you.
Something.

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Concept of death doesn't mean immunity to destruction, if it was only worm I will concede, but in Nasuverse, shards treating different things as death could be taken more literally.

We don't know enough to say of they have it or not, but nature of Nasuverse means that it is very likely that if they do have it, than it is different from humans, because they don't come from earth.

Like how Alexandria could be Killed be Drowning.

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Not a shard and what was arguably her soul was kept by the shard like they keep all their hosts' possibly souls.

Like how an Endbringer can be Killed by destroying its Core.

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Destroying the core means ruining their manifestation in our world, we don't know anything more, Crimson moon had been technically not killed thousand years ago and can do nothing about it by himself, endbringers might be the same.

Entities have the Concept of Death, and it was proven twice in Canon.

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WoG is that if Eden wasn't used by cauldron in canon, someone else might have accidentally revived her, Scion didn't fix her because he is dumb and passive, not because she was "dead".

Once in Contessa's Interlude, before Eden sealed PtV. She Saw how to kill Both Entities, but could only vaguely remember how to kill Eden afterwards.

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Ruining their physical bodies doesn't mean they are killed, having no concept of death doesn't protect you from physical one, you will still live but be powerless if your physical body is destroyed, what not having concept of death protects you from is instant death attacks.

The fact that they could die, means they have the Concept of Death.

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Just like crimson moon and type mercury of course.

If you Can be killed somehow, then someone with Death Perception, can kill you with something sharp and pointy, like a knife.

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Entities might have a concept of death, but a different one, things shards referred to as death is not death for humans, many people will even consider it practically still alive.

 

[Flightstrike]

Blue Eyed White Stabbin', got it.

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I almost choked on my drink

 

[BigBadBen]

I wonder what it will take for Taylor to loose an arm, that allows her to get a prosthetic that perfectly imitates a human limb, but allows her to keep a knife hidden away until she needs it?
Cause seeing her get arrested by Armsmaster only for Taylor to escape the cuffs much to his shock, especially after deliberately cutting off her limb will be priceless and hilarious.

 

[eschwartz]

I wonder what it will take for Taylor to loose an arm, that allows her to get a prosthetic that perfectly imitates a human limb, but allows her to keep a knife hidden away until she needs it?

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Zero point in mutilating her body to hide a conventional weapon; her power doesn't depend on knives:

Looking down at my worksheet, I focused on one of the lines that jumped around the corner of the page, examining it closer. When there were no hidden secrets revealed, I poked it with the point of my pencil and was shocked when the pencil sunk into the line.

Worried that I'd done something to my homework, I quickly retracted the pencil, but nothing seemed different.

Did I have to do something with the entire line?

Getting out a blank sheet of paper so I wouldn't accidentally ruin my homework, I looked at it and the neon-red lines that flashed around, giving off a sense of finality. Placing the sheet on my desk, I pushed my pencil into the end of the line at the side of the page, again the point sinking in slightly.

And what is every kid taught to do with lines?

Trace them.

Dragging the pencil along the line, which had frozen as soon as I'd impaled it, I was surprised when the page parted along the path I followed like I was using an exacto-knife and not a pencil.

Weird.

Did that mean I could do this with any of the lines?

I looked around my room for something else. Frowning when I couldn't immediately see anything, I started digging through my desk. I settled on a pack of cards and a bag of marbles, also taking out a ruler since it felt like my pencil wouldn't be sharp/wedged/long enough, as I'd used the very point of the pencil for the sheet of paper.

Standing the pack of cards up on edge, I chose a line that angled from top right to lower left, catching the end of the line with the metal edge of the ruler and then dragging down. It felt like there was almost no resistance, like the proverbial hot knife through butter. Sure enough, the pack fell into halves, a perfectly straight division between all of the cards.

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Anything thin enough to trace the lines should be able to fully replace a knife. Her own fingers could probably do it (I know nothing about the KnK side of the cross, but I think I recall comments in the thread about how one character canonically did just that?).

Knives are handy, though, and you can throw them...