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Burden of the Emerald Empire (A Legend of the Five Rings Tale)

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[X] Solving the the things you actually came here to solve

To be fair at this point in time the Unicorn had OTL carried out a Winter march using their Cavalry Army... yes Shugenja are that useful (plus scouts setting up advanced supply depots)
 
Fair warning, you are misreading the Lion Situation. (I'm not going to give effectively the same problem twice)
 
[] Solving the the things you actually came here to solve
[X] Making sure the Lion aren't about to do something honourably stupid
 
Okay. Let's look at the Lion for the moment. The Unicorn are charging out to assault the enemy. Okay. I might drop a cautious word in Chagatai's ear if I could. We approve of his attitude, and even of his rough general plans, but we *will* need his cavalry come the spring thaws, as will Rokugan, and he might not want to push it *too* far. Still, hopefully it won't be too terrible regardless. As for the Lion... The Ikoma who has recently died was regent for a boy too young to succeed his father. The Lion are in mourning... and we don't know *who* is going to come out of that period as their champion. We need the Lion strong. My guess is that that one is kind of a crapshoot. Hmmm...

- Danger of ignoring Unicorn: might push themselves too far in this purging, especially with Goju shadows carefully taunting them to spend their energies fighting the snow. Possible diminished calvalry assets. Faint possibility of losing Chagatai (who is enraged by the loss of Moto Chen). That would suck.
- Danger of ignoring the Lion: No real clue who is going to come out of this as Champion/Regent (depending). They might take some sort of terrible oaths that will come back to haunt us. They're the Lion, and this is an emotional time. Who knows what they might feel driven by honor to do?
- Danger of ignoring the Crane: distinct possibility that the Crane Insurrection succeeds, leaving us with a Champion who is severely unhappy with us over the decisions we've made with respect to the Yasuki civil war, and Doji Domotai no longer able to act in the courts. Faint possibility of somehow restarting said civil war. Also, "dealing with this thing" involves stuff like getting Kisada away from where he terrifies the Scorpion and over to where we can deploy him and things like that. There are a lot of moving parts here.

@gman391 - any chance we could deploy/release Horiuchi Shem-Zhe to help out with Chagatai's little crusade here, possibly with a quick word to ask him to help keep them in mostly one piece? He's been Moto Chagatai's personal problem solver for multiple years, which should give him enough of a connection to reach out and help the man a bit, he's a pacifist at heart, which will hopefully have him trying to sell the idea of not pushing the armies *too* hard into the snow, and as the Jade Champion, hunting down creatures like the Chuda is basically his job. His investigation skill should also help. It wouldn't be as good as heading out to do it ourselves, but I'm sure it would help.

Unfortunately, nothing we can do like that for the Lion. That's one of those cases where we pretty much have to involve ourselves directly or back off and hope it comes out okay.
 
You can delegate things to Horiuchi Shem-Zhe, I'm not going to say that he'll perfectly solve the problem, but he'll do something to try and solve it. Whether that's as effective as Hisao personally, I won't say, partly because Hisao has no way of knowing that, and partly because I'm trying to avoid spoiling the vote too much.
 
Sirrocco said:
- Danger of ignoring the Lion: No real clue who is going to come out of this as Champion/Regent (depending). They might take some sort of terrible oaths that will come back to haunt us. They're the Lion, and this is an emotional time. Who knows what they might feel driven by honor to do?
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It's only a matter of time before some lion blames the unicorn because it was a unicorn family infiltrated.
 
gman391 said:
You can delegate things to Horiuchi Shem-Zhe, I'm not going to say that he'll perfectly solve the problem, but he'll do something to try and solve it. Whether that's as effective as Hisao personally, I won't say, partly because Hisao has no way of knowing that, and partly because I'm trying to avoid spoiling the vote too much.
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Oh, I don't expect him to be as effective. We're the Emperor. Nobody else is going to be as effective at getting specific vassals to do things (or not do things). I just figured that he'd probably help.

I'd probably send the Otomo to try to influence in accordance with the Emperor's Will among the Lion (...with the Emperor's Will being "Try not to let them decide on anything that's going to wind up hurting us too badly in the upcoming war against the Glass Things. Especially dissuade them from starting any new wars with anyone else between now and then".) That's more of a "better than nothing" play, though, especially given that the Otomo aren't really at full strength. Bringing in Kotaro as Kizoku helped a bit with the legitimacy issues (in the way that "some" is better than "none"), and rebuilding the bureaucracy along somewhat more sane lines has probably lightened the severe manpower issues. We might have even fit a bit of love in to the Laws of Man... but it's still not at the "Extended family of the Hantei" levels... and, sadly, probably won't be. Giving them that level of legitimacy again would *cost*.

I still think we need to deal with the Crane situation personally. I don't think we can afford to let them have the Yasuki, and if we're not doing that, then the best thing I can come up with to given them is just a bunch of respect resources... and nothing drains the value out of respect resources like having an underling present them.

Side note: I'd lay... maybe even odds that the best way to take out glass golems is to hit them with a tetsubo. If it wouldn't be a horrible insult to the honor of all involved, I might think about trying to push a bunch of the lion and perhaps unicorn down to help with the wall to free up some Crab to come up to deal with the golem menace. Alternately, to have the Crab help train the lion and/or unicorn in their use. On the bright side, if we do manage to pull off Plan Kisada, then it's a near certainty that a stack of Crab will just happen to wander along to hang out nearby, and if the tetsubo thing does work, we'll find out pretty quickly.
 
[X] Solving the the things you actually came here to solve

Nothing like a unrelated crisis to force focus and perspective on the current situation.
 
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Winter Court: Arbitration Details
  • Threadmarks
    • --Solve the thing you came here to solve.

    In the end, Moto Chagatai is a grow man, he has a responsibility and duty to look after himself. You will send Horiuchi Shem-Zhe to help, but you'll leave him alone. While a small part of you thinks that looking in on the Lion might be a good idea. In the end you decide that you should focus on what you came here for. That is to say, solving the Crane/Scorpion/Crab problem.

    Calling for more tea, and settling in with Kotaro and Akane, you begin to work out proposals to solve things, hopefully for good.


    For the Scorpion/Crab War you come up with the following plan

    [] The Scorpion will admit no guilt, but at your command give enough medicine for three years service on the wall.
    [] The Scorpion will admit guilt, and give a year's worth of medicine to the Crab in payment
    [] (Write in)

    [] The Crab pay no reparations, but must then swear to a non aggression pact with the Scorpion that will be in force for five years
    [] The Crab will pay reparations for any destroyed areas in Scorpion lands, but will be compensated by the Steel Throne
    (Write in)

    [] The Scorpion and the Crab will each send a single legion to fight in a location of your choosing with observers provided by the Otomo. This battle will be used to determine guilt and the Otomo will rule for whoever is the winner after three days. They will then abide by the punishments you levy

    Regarding Kisada you have decided....
    [] He will be allowed to stay where he is. You will station Dragon Ise-Zumi in his temple to keep him honest
    [] A new Order within the Brotherhood will be made, appointment to it will be by specific appointment by you and the Head Abbot. This Order will officially advise you in whatever manner you see fit. This order will be granted lands in the Spine of the World
    [] Write in

    --------------------------------------

    Regarding the Yasuki matter....

    [] The Crane keep the lands, and you will compensate the Crab for the loss
    [] The Crab keep the lands and you will compensate the Crane for the loss
    [] The Crane keep the name, but not the lands
    [] The Crab keep the name but not the lands
    [] You will have them both send a single legion to a region of your choosing with Otomo observers. They will then fight, and the winner (as decided by impartial observation) will then receive the lands and name.
    [] All parties will agree to a treaty of non aggression along the border until your life ends.
    [] Write in
    --------------------------
    Regarding the potential Crane coup....
    [] You will openly support Doji Domotai and make it clear you will crush rebels for her
    [] You will provide covert support in the form of intelligence, men and koku as needed
    [] You will award her a title and hope for the best
    [] Write in

    ------------------
    Looking up from your long discussion you look at the last measure.

    Do you order them to cement your treaty arbitration with marriages?
    [] Yes
    [] No
    -----------------------

    AN: Sorry this one is less story focused, but it seemed to me that this was the best way to put together the package of political problem solving for you to vote on. Multiple write in options are allowed and encouraged.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] The Scorpion will admit guilt, and give a year's worth of medicine to the Crab in payment

    [X] The Crab will pay reparations for any destroyed areas in Scorpion lands, but will be compensated by the Steel Throne

    [X] He will be allowed to stay where he is. You will station Dragon Ise-Zumi in his temple to keep him honest

    [X] The Crab keep the lands and you will compensate the Crane for the loss

    [X] You will openly support Doji Domotai and make it clear you will crush rebels for her

    [X] No
     
    [x] Plan Squid

    -[x] The Scorpion will admit guilt, and give a year's worth of medicine to the Crab in payment
    -[x] The Crab pay no reparations, but must then swear to a non aggression pact with the Scorpion that will be in force for five years

    Based on QM feedback, The Crab really want to thump some Scorpions, even when everything else is going their way. Given that, and our pressing need to not have any more civil wars spring up for the next bit, I'm thinking that the five year nonaggression pact thing is going to be kind of important. Hopefully, their admitting guilt will cool the Crab Rage a bit, but mostly the Scorpion are going to need some sort of help rebuilding.

    -[x] A new Order within the Brotherhood will be made, appointment to it will be by specific appointment by you and the Head Abbot. This Order will officially advise you in whatever manner you see fit. This order will be granted lands in the Spine of the World

    Keep the Scorpion more relaxed, and set up one of the finest generals in the Empire to maybe help out with the glass golems.

    -[x] The Crab keep the lands and you will compensate the Crane for the loss
    --[x] Just as the Emperor compensates the Crane for their loss, he expects something in return from the Crab for their gain. They will invest non-trivial amounts of manpower in the upcoming defense against the army of glass golems (mostly Kaiu engineers to prepare defenses and various warriors with tetsubos for the smashing, though a decent smattering of Kuni would probably also help).

    We want the Crab out there helping, because they're *useful* when dealing with corrupt threats, and this is as good an excuse as any. It also helps keep things from looking like we're showing *too* much favoritism to the mom-clan, and advances the theme of "No, really, we're making decisions based on dealign with a major threat to the Empire." That's the sort of thing that can help blunt the bad feelings of our followers at least a little when they arise.

    -[x] You will openly support Doji Domotai and make it clear you will crush rebels for her
    --[x] Make it clear that she has your favor, for little things like having saved your life from an assassin.
    --[x] Furthermore, allow her a few notable-but-manageable imperial-flavored political favors of her choice to arrange as she sees fit. (This is things like "declare this honorable dead person as some appropriate fortune", "declare that thing as the inspiration of an appropriately-themed minor festival", "Offer Imperial Pardon to this or that individual/minor family" and maybe some "attend this artistic event in person and say particularly nice things about the artist" on the side.) Essentially, we're offering her some political tokens that she can wield to shore up the loyalty of her own followers, by "leveraging her current position as Imperial Favorite".


    We approve of people who save Our Life. We want to encourage that. Also, the Crane are totally used to the idea that the way to get ahead in the Courts is to make friends. This basically sells the idea that things have been going poorly in general, but that their Champion has managed to Do The Crane Thing and make some inroads with the Emperor, and if they give her time to exploit it, it might work out pretty well for them. It also implies that if they throw her out it's likely to go Badly for them... while also giving her some tools to help work things on her end.

    and for marriages...
    [x] No
    -[x] But it is strongly encouraged.

    Gives our vassals a way to express displeasure if they so choose. If they don't choose, it gives the treaty-marriages a bit more kick. The Crab will go with it. They wouldn't insult us by refusing, given how much support we're giving them. Domotai will go through with it, given how much support we're giving *her*, and "...because I don't want to piss off the Emperor over something petty. We *are* the Clan of Courtiers after all." should be enough of an explanation for her people. The Scorpion will *probably* go through with it because we're taking Kisada a bit further off the field for them and they have reason to want to dissuade the Crab War Engine.

    Ahhh! and I've just figured out what Domotai was up to that so upset the Daidoji. That was her thoroughly disbanding the Harriers, wasn't it? Also explains the bit about her improved relations with Togashi Satsu, and some of her comments about the recent events.

    Suggestions and critiques welcomed and solicited. If anyone makes any that are good enough to convince me, I will be editing this plan appropriately.
     
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    @Sirrocco
    Hmm, I think the Scorpion-Crab deal is too slanted for the Crabs. We cannot afford to show too much favoritism. Especially since we also gave them the Yasuki lands. The Crab might have been provoked, but nevertheless they did cause damage to the Scorpion, so they need to pay some reparations or else clan leaders can easily paint our justice as an shameless nepotism orchestrated by our mother.

    However, material reparations would be too hard of a blow to the Crab's pride, and that's also something we don't want, since we both need the Crab and have solid supporters in them. So I would suggest to have the Crab not only sign a treaty, but also marry off some of their warriors and send some of their children to the scorpion. This is something that the Scorpion can use, but also be spun as a plus for the Crab, and well some pride will still be ruffled, it's better than alternatives.

    Though straight up paying for reparations is something that we can still try if we think we can afford it politically since we are giving the Crab a lot of goodies and that should make them more inclined to accept such a blow to their pride.
     
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    Deadly Snark said:
    @Sirrocco
    Hmm, I think the Scorpion-Crab deal is too slanted for the Crabs. We cannot afford to show too much favoritism. Especially since we also gave them the Yasuki lands. The Crab might have been provoked, but nevertheless they did cause damage to the Scorpion, so they need to pay some reparations or else clan leaders can easily paint our justice as an shameless nepotism orchestrated by our mother.
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    Okay. Interesting. This is a difference in perception, I think, as I hadn't seen my Scorpion position as being all that slanted in the Crab's favor. Let's check.

    @gman391, could I please get an Air check on how the Crab and Scorpion would feel about the guilt vs medicines and reparations vs treaty questions?

    edit: and I added in the bit about marriages. Had forgotten that the first time through.
     
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    Sirrocco said:
    Okay. Interesting. This is a difference in perception, I think, as I hadn't seen my Scorpion position as being all that slanted in the Crab's favor. Let's check.

    @gman391, could I please get an Air check on how the Crab and Scorpion would feel about the guilt vs medicines and reparations vs treaty questions?
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    Click to shrink...

    Sure. Just let me edit in after I make the roll here.
    Gonna go with a tn 15.

    Edit: Having got a 31, I think you pass.

    The Scorpion are relatively okay with no guilt however the combination of giving medicine and not receiving Reparations is not something they are okay with. Selling specific medicinal herbs and other goods makes up a large portion of their economy. Effectively you're not only not giving them subsidies to rebuild, you are also making sure that they don't have the money to rebuild out of their own budget. The Crab have a simply enormous medicinal budget.

    The Crab are all things considered okay with this deal but they still wanna thump some Scorpions.

    The Scorpion will not be satisfied by the write in for the order. Kisada being allowed to do what he wants just brings back the problem they had in the first place, only now assassinating him is going to make Hisao angry.
    gman391 threw 7 10-faced dice. Reason: Crab/Scorpion Guilt/Reparation Total: 44
    5 5 8 8 6 6 10 10 7 7 4 4 4 4
     
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    Okay. Have made adjustments to the plan according to QM feedback - only taking one year of medicines, having the Scorpion admit guilt, and reducing Kisada to an advisory role.

    @gman391 - are the provided options intended to be what Hisao thinks of as reasonable, or are they just options you came up with that seemed a decent distribution? In particular, I'm trying to figure out if this is a case of "use write-ins as occasional tweak" (what I'm going with right now) or "feel free to take it in new directions".

    ...and for another QM question, I have this crazy half-idea for a plan. We have a number of strange and shadowy foes in the Empire right now (mostly the Spider, though we don't know that IC). The Scorpion is supposed to be our Under Hand and help deal with things like this, but they're not particularly happy with us right now. I have this idea where we go with (three years medicine/no guilt) and (five year treaty/no reparations) and then offer them rebuilding money out of the imperial purse in exchange for heavy mobilization and/or success in hunting down the Spider for us. Is that (or anything like it) at all plausible?
     
    @Sirrocco
    A bit of both? All the options are theoretically something Hisao would find reasonable. But for the most part, these are options I came up with a spread to try and represent what I found as possible solutions. I'm aware (and honestly hoping) that there are more solutions that I haven't come up with. Thus the encouragement for write ins. If you want to take that an entirely different direction, I'm open with it barring blatantly insane stuff like 'surrender to the Shadowlands' or what have you.

    Regarding funding the Scorpion to go all manhunter. Well your treasurer will not be happy but it's certainly doable.
     
    Okay! So, we have a pretty wide-open call of "there may well be better options out there", and once we all filter them down ourselves, we can make Air checks and the like to see which of them are politically plausible. Time to start churning out ideas and see what comes of it.

    So... various drives, as I see them:
    - We want to maximize the resources available to deal with the Glass Golem threat.
    -- That means minimizing the amount of violent struggle between the Clans overall, at least for the next few years
    - Anything we can do to make life unpleasant for the Spider would also be a bonus. They're not the threat on the table right *now*, but they're totally a threat.
    - We'd like to be on better terms with the Scorpion.
    - We want to shore up Domotai's position with the Crane.
    - The Imperial Purse is still feeling a bit light overall.
    - In general, we'd like to have people liking us better.

    Pertinent Facts that I'm aware of:
    - The Daidoji are painfully close to open insurrection in the Crane, and will need to be placated somehow.
    - If we can keep Domotai's position as Clan Leader secure, she herself is in a position to be beholden to us.
    - The Scorpion need rebuilding money somehow from somewhere. We can't tap their purse but so hard without doing *something* to fill it back up again.
    ...and I'm out of ergs for the moment. There's some stuff about what the Crane, Scorpion, and Crab want/need out of the situation back in the pertinent updates, but I just don't have it in me to go dig them out right now. I'll likely come back and hit it tomorrow. Anyone who has ideas or insights between now and then?
     
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