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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 592 80.3%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.7%
  • Total voters
    737
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DragonParadox said:
OK, I'll take your word for it. They are not entirely worthless, just not worth what was invested in them.
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They are also helping now in the taking of Garkill's worlds.

At this moment every little helps.

And besides we get it so personally I say stop whinging.

Besides are the admech reforms something incredibly long term and very abstract and yet you don't complain about them.
 
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DragonParadox said:
From our perspective there is no opportunity cost to adm-mech reform because we do not spend actions on it. There is one to the Quartock... existing.
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Only when we want too.

I think in total we've spend about 5-9 actions, pittance compared to what we do placating other members of the trust.

And besides, this is the what 4th time you've gone on about it so what would you have done when they arrived?

Killed them all and proved them right been as bad as the Imperium ever was slaughtering 3 million battered refugees that humanity had already wronged?
 
Alex pears said:
Only when we want too.

I think in total we've spend about 5-9 actions, pittance compared to what we do placating other members of the trust.

And besides, this is the what 4th time you've gone on about it so what would you have done when they arrived?

Killed them all and proved them right been as bad as the Imperium ever was slaughtering 3 million battered refugees that humanity had already wronged?
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We could have just offered no aid. Avernus would have killed them on its own and not offering charity is hardly as bad as the Imperium.
 
Posting a competing plan because so far none have been made and there are a few non-trivial alterations to Enjou's that I'd really like to see happen.

[X] Plan Reynal T93

Munitorum
SLOT A - Year 2
-Y2: Helltrooper Power Infantry: Light Infantry
SLOT B - Year 2
-Y2: Helguard Void Infantry

No changes to Munitorum actions

Void Command
SLOT A - Year 1
-Y1: Aggressor
-- EXPEDITE YEAR 1

Ditto void.

Administratum
SLOT A - Year 1
-Y1: Expand (Azure Isles, Edvin's Choice) to Small Hive
SLOT B - Year 3
-Y3: Upgrade Defences: Small Hive (Edvin's Choice)
SLOT C - Year 4
-Y4: Upgrade Defences: Small Hive (Edvin's Choice)

Expanding Y1 instead of Y4 so it has more of a chance to get built up and have people move in early.

Diplomacy
SLOT A - Year 1
-Y1: Persons of Interest
-Y2: Sirens Trade (Chaos Cultists for further knowledge*) IF Saint Lin finds no major issues with the Banish Rune ELSE Diplomatic Relations (Jotunheim)
-Y3: Investigate (Governor Bertil Mikaelsson)
-- REPEAT IF FAILED
-Y4: Diplomatic Relations (Svartalfheim)
-- REPEAT IF FAILED
-Y5: Diplomatic Relations (Alfheim)

*Siren Trade Details:
- Avernus is willing to trade any Chaos Cultists that it is able to capture alive to the Sirens in exchange for further runes and other useful Warp knowledge on an ongoing basis. Klovis-Ultan will emphasize to the Sirens that getting authorization for this deal was politically costly, and that it would be helpful if the initial trade was for something suitably impressive so as to show results at the coming High Council meeting.
- Policy: Based on the advice of Saint Lin, citizens who turn themselves in believing they have been corrupted will be given a choice regarding whether they be given to the Sirens or to be euthanized. They will be advised that Saint Lin believes that since they were still able to turn themselves in that there is a very good chance that their souls would not be doomed to go to Chaos.

Adjusted the policy based on Saint Lin's advice - the conservatives can hardly criticize since it's him who advised it. Also changed the planet investigation to relations boosters.

Arbites
SLOT A - Year 1
-Y1-Y4: Motherhood
-Y5: Psyker Hunting

AdMech
SLOT A - Year 2 (Biologis)
-Y2: Complete Examination (Lancer Bird)

Holding off on the military bionics because (1) I'd like to have a DD free for it (effectively increases the chance of critting on it by 20%) and (2) we're currently in the process of changing up our military doctrine a fair bit with the power armor for the Hell troopers.

As for the Lancer Bird: The thing's an eagle that hunts camo crocs at night. It basically has to have some serious Divination and/or sensory abilities, as well as some way of boosting its toughness to survive the dive-bomb tactics. As such, it seems like a good candidate for psychic familiars if it can be tamed and any powers it has are similarly tempting—some variation on a true-shot power with good target identification plus a Super-exitus rifle at high power would be absolute murder for battlefield assassination.

Ministorum
SLOT A - Year 1
-Y1: Examine Rune: Banish
-Y2-Y3: Those in the Shadows
-Y4-Y5: Oversee Missionaries
SLOT B - Year 1
-Y1-Y5: Oversee Missionaries

Lin actions looked sensible so I'm leaving them alone.

Astra Telepathica
SLOT A - Year 1 (Ridcully)
-Y1: Military Assistance
-- DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 1
-Y2: Contact Eldar
-- DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 2
-Y4: Military Assistance
-- DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 4
-Y5: Cheating (Cyclonic Torpedoes)
-- DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 5
SLOT B - Year 2 (Xavier)
-Y2: Create Psyker Order (Wildlife Research)
--The purpose of the order would be to aid in researching wildlife psychic powers and in teaching the wilderness survival skills needed to engage in such research on Avernus (especially important given the number of animals that can't be brought to dedicated research facilities). This order may also work with the Biologis groups engaged in wildlife research as well as aiding in the military use of Avernus wildlife (such as in inciting Thundabeast stampedes and the like).
SLOT C - Year 3 (Tamia)
-Y3: Examine: Rune of Banishment
-- DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 3

I'm having Xavier create an order. Why? Because orders get better the longer they're active, and there are a LOT of things this order can help with. Especially considering the backlog of Avernus plants/animals with interesting psychic powers we've finished the Mechanicus research for. I'd expect this order to start paying dividends well before the Orks get big too. Plus, while Xavier on the offense is hardly something to scoff at for our campaign, given our current military situation and the amount of assistance Ridcully is giving in the immediate future I don't think we need to worry about things going poorly in the near future.

Personal
SLOT A - Year 1
-Y1: Speak to the People
-Y2: Spend Time With (Lord-Marshal Sigurd)
-Y3: Spend Time With (Lord-Marshal Sigurd)
-Y4: Spend Time With (Admiral Sarnow)
-Y5: Spend Time With (Admiral Sarnow)
SLOT B - Year 2
-Y2: Thaddeus Expertise: Upgrade Defences: Small Hive (Edvin's Choice)

No issues with the personal section—in fact, I think that the Sigurd chat is inspired.
 
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DragonParadox said:
We could have just offered no aid. Avernus would have killed them on its own and not offering charity is hardly as bad as the Imperium.
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No we would have simply be committing genocide through indirect action, much worse than simply going in and killing them, in fact I'm sure the trust would agree that no sentient being deserves to be left stranded on Avernus without protection even Xenos.

And you are overestimating that they would die, their entire population were equal to our Helltroopers before they arrived and their fighters equal to Helguard and lead by the incredibly powerful Azyr in addition to their natural abilities.

No they would have managed to survive unlike us they evolved on a death world, and grown strong just as we have and we would have pissed them off (again) for nothing more than at most 10 extra actions.
 
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They also give us, let's say a way to 'train' how to talk with other xeno races (and culture and etc).
edit: now that I think about the leader of the diplomacy in Avernus is a lord inquisitior, if he was not racional. and if he was bad at doind he job we could have some talk like this.

'quartok enter the room'
lord inquisitior start to burn a incense.
they start to talk.
lord inquisitior ask if they have problems with rebels or chaos (while smoking).
the quartok talk about trades.
lord inquisitior talk dismiss him while using water (holy water) in the room, and guide him to outside.
they walk for some more with the lord inquisitior making some hymn (of burning herects).

I can see this happen, but not with any of the 3 that the trust have (they are actually compete)
 
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[X] Plan Enjou T93

My only complaint with the plan is that we are only doing one psyker hunting action when I feel it would be safer to do two since we are going to have to put down a rogue Alpha one of these turns and Jane's parenting malus will make it hurt more if we don't counter it.
 
[X] Plan Reynal T93

So just tallied up our Ground defence level;
273 (Combined Defence Value) / 40 Cities = 6.825.
So 2nd, behind Muspelheim (7) and just ahead of Svartalfheim (6.7).

And our Orbital Defence Level is 5.8, based on what Durin said;
Durin said:
5.8
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That puts us 3rd in the IT. Vanaheim is 1st with 7 and Muspelheim is 2nd with 6.
 
Alex pears said:
No we would have simply be committing genocide through indirect action, much worse than simply going in and killing them, in fact I'm sure the trust would agree that no sentient being deserves to be left stranded on Avernus without protection even Xenos.

And you are overestimating that they would die, their entire population were equal to our Helltroopers before they arrived and their fighters equal to Helguard and lead by the incredibly powerful Azyr in addition to their natural abilities.

No they would have managed to survive unlike us they evolved on a death world, and grown strong just as we have and we would have pissed them off (again) for nothing more than at most 10 extra actions.
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If hey survived cool... we could treat them like the local sophonts. Treaty of non-aggression and then trade if they had anything interesting to offer. As for being "pissed off" for not being given charity, well tough. We owed them nothing. It certainly was not Avernites that bombed their planet and if we took on all the sins of the imperium we would have to wear nothing but a sackcloth and ashes for the next several millennia.

But really this is not getting us anything. I was just noting why I like the soul-sucking fish-women more than them.
 
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DragonParadox said:
As for being "pissed off" for not being given charity, well tough. We owed them nothing. It certainly was not Avernites that bombed their planet and if we took on all the sins of the imperium we would have to wear nothing but a sackcloth and ashes for the next several millennia.
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I don't know I'd be pissed if I was begging for help and someone told me to piss off especially since they hate our species for being a bunch of douchebags cause ya know we destroyed their civilisation...

Like we hate them because they're not human ya see my point.

As for trade you do realise that this would have been the second time we consigned them to oblivion in that case right?

And they would have been living in the Avernite wilds for generations and would have probably had a level of skill and veterancy I can't even imagine.

DragonParadox said:
But really this is not getting us anything.
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Yessss, because this isn't the fourth fucking time you've noted how you think the Quartok are useless.

Seriously it got old at time 2.
 
@DragonParadox ok we GET IT you do not like the Quartok please stop continuously B*tching about them. there is nothing going happen that will make you happy about them as we would lose almost all political clout by becoming oath breakers(something also anathema to our culture thus ooc)
 
DragonParadox said:
I honestly like the Sirens better than the Quartock. They have certainly been more useful. So far the Quartock have been what feels like a bottomless diplo action sink for no tangible gain.
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DragonParadox said:
You guys do realize this whole thing was started by an off hand remark?

And then people changed me to justify it. I certainly did not plan to open a wider discussion.
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Really off hand. Its not like its half an entire post complaining.

We also are not telepathic, we cannot see your intent, so when you bring it up in such a manner people are going to want to debate it.
 
DragonParadox said:
Generally speaking if you do not address a post it is unlikely to spark discussion. After all it's rather difficult to debate with one's self.
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On the other hand if one puts up a post on a debating forum for all too see what can one expect, but for others to want to engage in debate?

You have been here a while this should be well known to you n'est pas?

It is like throwing a piece of meat into a den of wolves and expecting them not to be hungry.
 
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Alex pears said:
On the other hand if one puts up a post on a debating forum for all too see what can one expect, but for others to want to engage in debate?

You have been here a while this should be well known to you n'est pas?
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And I would have been fine debating it... the thing is I noticed you guys were not enjoying yourselves doing it. Given that it might have been best to avoid the topic even though I showed myself open to addressing it.
 
Seriously guys, just drop it. You don't have to get the last word in.

Azgrin said:
To change the subject, what do you all see as the biggest benefits to converting the Dragon's Nest?
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It betters relations in the long run with them. It makes them more like us, and us more like them. People prefer people who are similar to them - it makes us more like the same tribe, or at least naturally allied tribes.
 
DragonParadox said:
And I would have been fine debating it... the thing is I noticed you guys were not enjoying yourselves doing it. Given that it might have been best to avoid the topic even though I showed myself open to addressing it.
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Oh no, I enjoyed it for a bit when I was merely providing citations to prove your claims incorrect.

My mistake I admit was attempting to engage you further in a matter in which there can be no debate, you hold your views and have for over a year now.

Even if they are incorrect you won't see the benefit in the Quartok until they provide a "tangible" benefit more than they already provide, so let us leave it at that until it actually becomes relevant.

Azgrin said:
To change the subject, what do you all see as the biggest benefits to converting the Dragon's Nest?
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Enjou said:
It betters relations in the long run with them. It makes them more like us, and us more like them. People prefer people who are similar to them - it makes us more like the same tribe, or at least naturally allied tribes.
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Better trust between our groups + more cooperation, more resistance for the BD against chaos, due to Lin our resistance is probably better than almost anyone else.

Then you have to remember the Psycic frequencies allowing us to purge our rituals of dangerous ones.
 
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@Durin

1. On the Imperial Trust information Sheet it says we have >100 Astartes. Is that the number serving in the Trust Guard or is it the total Trust wide?
 
DragonParadox said:
As for the matter of conversion... I wonder if it opens the door to other spiritual help. We might want to share Jane's anti-cult work.
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mmm.

Its possible, Klovis said that her cult work was so incredible that the Inquisition would have burned several worlds to make something similar, they might be interested, especially since their area is so large and they've been fighting Valinor so long they probably have several cults (I mean just look at your average sector and how much crap is in one)

On the other hand.

@Durin
1. Are Jane's cult hunting and Psyker hunting techniques/books something they (the BD) might be interested in.
2. Would the Inquisition be afraid that them getting out would devalue them with cultists finding new ways around them?
 
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The Imperial Truth will also probably boost morale in the Nest since they must have feared worshiping the Emperor since they didn't have a saint to figure out what icons were abomination bait. Like remember when the Abomination first became active it started recruiting people that were thought to be resistant to chaos and the most faithful which was a huge shock for our people but imagine how much worse it was for everyone else.
 
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