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The Path Unending (A Cultivation Quest)

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zang269 said:
Good news, it's only three phases, and we might be able to pick up grade three pills from Shouxi.
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Im pretty sure that time pills are something we're not getting again. Stuff for the wood maybe, but with the second being like 25 anam, levelling this and flame up is going to be so time consuming.

I agree with the funeral idea overall though. Funerals are for the benefit of the living, and to be able to move towards the future without past grief holding us back. It's thematically fitting for leavings a time loop at least.
 
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Regarding our new ???????? technique: While I suspect it unlikely, I'm kind of hoping hoping for something like Deja-Fu from Thief of Time. The punch lands before it is thrown.
Again, I expect this to be an unlikely outcome. The description of how it has changed makes me think the technique will be closer to the relentlessness of time or something to that effect.
 
Enjou said:
The problem is that "your house burned down, likely with your father in it" is a bad ending to the day, which means the loop resets.
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This passive language is so defeatist. The day itself doesn't reset shit. Whenever something goes too non-perfect the Kukuni attempts to reset the day.
So far he has succeeded, but the fact that he hasn't instantly reset everything the moment Zhi showed up implies limits. Without enough disruption an opening will appear.
This house is where everything started and had been incrementally improved for an eternity, so replacing it can't be cheap.
 
re:the loop, at this point I think a Perfect Day is impossible. Liyu knows her father is dying. She's spent centuries in this loop. A true perfect day where she comes home and her father just left a note won't work because she'll know it's a lie.

[x] Hold an impromptu funeral for Liren. Say a prayer to usher him to the ancestors, use the Everdistant Flame to burn his corpse and hopefully erase him from the loop through use of Time, and then scatter the ashes with the Worldstream, so he can never be called back.

I'm not sure the funeral idea is perfect (heh), but I think it provides closure. Ideally Everdistant Flame can force him out of the loop, ending his suffering. I think that, more than anything, will be enough to help Liyu. Knowing her dad isn't suffering anymore.
 
Im at work so.i cant really look into it. But maybe the song the old sewer sung or the story liyu herself told us might help? All that stuff about the moon might have a hint in it.
 
[x] Hold an impromptu funeral for Liren. Say a prayer to usher him to the ancestors, use the Everdistant Flame to burn his corpse and hopefully erase him from the loop through use of Time, and then scatter the ashes with the Worldstream, so he can never be called back.

The thing about the perfect day, is that it eventually ends. And then you move on.

Let's not mess around with trying to lie to Liyu. She doesn't deserve it, not after everything she's been through. She knows she's looping, she knows she's somewhat responsible, or feels that way. She's tired. Let her know that her parent will finally be at peace.
 
Guys, even if we hold the funeral for her father, Liyu won't be included in the ceremony, we can't directly interact with her without the day being reset again per CT on discord. This will be something Zhi does before she gets home, she will just be coming home to an empty house and just being left to her own devices if we go with the funeral only plan.

Which is also a fair way to go about things, but it feels like people are saying this will bring her closure when she won't even know what happened to the body until after the loop is already over.
 
The3rdCorinthian said:
Im pretty sure that time pills are something we're not getting again. Stuff for the wood maybe, but with the second being like 25 anam, levelling this and flame up is going to be so time consuming.

I agree with the funeral idea overall though. Funerals are for the benefit of the living, and to be able to move towards the future without past grief holding us back. It's thematically fitting for leavings a time loop at least.
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Not as much as you might think. While we're limited to 25 Time Anam a week, I severely doubt any of the three remaining phases of ???? will take more than that. Especially not with our 30% discount. I see it capping at around 18ish. And we can reliably drain all 25 in a single cycling action.

Also Ever Distant Flame requires a rather small amount of Time Anam. So I'm pretty sure we can cycle Time for both at the same time until ??? is filled, then just focus totally on EDF.
 
Broccoliccoli said:
This passive language is so defeatist. The day itself doesn't reset shit. Whenever something goes too non-perfect the Kukuni attempts to reset the day.
So far he has succeeded, but the fact that he hasn't instantly reset everything the moment Zhi showed up implies limits. Without enough disruption an opening will appear.
This house is where everything started and had been incrementally improved for an eternity, so replacing it can't be cheap.
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Yes, the kukuni has limits and likely limited resources. And it is likely unable to act against its own nature. From what we've been able to glean, it only resets the loop when the perfection of the day is marred, and in Liyu's case that perfection is marred when she comes home to find her dead father. Coming back to find her home burned down, and presumably her father killed in the fire, is another instance of the day's perfection being marred. That will almost certainly trigger a reset, and even if that is costly, Zhi dies. Zhi cannot survive another reset.

The theory we're working with is that the kukuni can't actively make the day worse, as that goes against its nature and purpose, but it also doesn't have to act. It could ensure Liren lives through the day, but it doesn't. By ensuring Liyu's Perfect Day is ruined at the very end through inaction, it can reset things and do the day over and over again, repeating its moment and letting it grow more powerful with every loop. So our goal isn't to get it to expend resources, as a battle of attrition doesn't favor us. Rather, it's to close the loop. By removing Liren's body from the house, we ensure Liyu doesn't discover her father is dead. By cleaning up, we make the house nicer. By bringing a nice doggo in, we ensure she has something friendly to play with at the end of the day. With home being comfortable, there's nothing to stop the day from ending badly. The Perfect Day comes to an end on a good note, meaning the kukuni won't be able to act, so won't be able to cause a reset as doing so would go against its nature and purpose.
 
After a lot of thinking on my previous draft plan, finding the source of Time is possibly not on the table. Time is a moment, not a place, after all.

Perhaps ensuring Liyu can't find the body in the first place is the answer. Hopefully. It's that or using Time to destabilize the loop.

[X] Plan A Perfect Ending
 
Enjou said:
Yes, the kukuni has limits and likely limited resources. And it is likely unable to act against its own nature. From what we've been able to glean, it only resets the loop when the perfection of the day is marred, and in Liyu's case that perfection is marred when she comes home to find her dead father. Coming back to find her home burned down, and presumably her father killed in the fire, is another instance of the day's perfection being marred. That will almost certainly trigger a reset, and even if that is costly, Zhi dies. Zhi cannot survive another reset.

The theory we're working with is that the kukuni can't actively make the day worse, as that goes against its nature and purpose, but it also doesn't have to act. It could ensure Liren lives through the day, but it doesn't. By ensuring Liyu's Perfect Day is ruined at the very end through inaction, it can reset things and do the day over and over again, repeating its moment and letting it grow more powerful with every loop. So our goal isn't to get it to expend resources, as a battle of attrition doesn't favor us. Rather, it's to close the loop. By removing Liren's body from the house, we ensure Liyu doesn't discover her father is dead. By cleaning up, we make the house nicer. By bringing a nice doggo in, we ensure she has something friendly to play with at the end of the day. With home being comfortable, there's nothing to stop the day from ending badly. The Perfect Day comes to an end on a good note, meaning the kukuni won't be able to act, so won't be able to cause a reset as doing so would go against its nature and purpose.
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I'm not so sure on that:

Vesvius said:
"I cannot say for certain," Liren answers promptly. "But if you were to force me to guess, Kong Zhi, it would be because I never see the end of this Day. I'm always dead long before the sun sets, and it is an intellectual that will never use its power unnecessarily. Since I'm destined to die, there's no sense using any of its effort to force me into its Day. That would just be a waste."
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I'm inclined to believe Liren. We've talked to this creature - its thoughts are deeply austere and incredibly focused on hyper-efficiency. I don't think this is the kind of creature that would deliberately mar something for personal growth. The concept would be anathema to it, it's not Human, or growth focused, it's focused on making things more perfect. It hates mortals because it hates the fact that they seem unpleasable.

It fancies itself a scholar, but it has the emotional intellect of a particularly sharp pebble.

It's not spending any effort on Liren because it's trying to minmax growth. It's not spending effort on Liren because it legitimately cannot comprehend the idea that effort spent on improving the last day of a dying man would enhance that of others.


Also - Zhi is dogshit at lying, and I think that'll carry over into any writing. We also don't know Liren like Liyu does, wouldn't know how things had been going until recently to come up with a believable lie, and Liyu seems to have cottoned onto the loops.

I don't think there's a universe where Liyu doesn't immediately see through any attempts to decieve her. I don't think burning down the house is needed, but I think trying to overexplain her father dissapearing has potential to backfire.
 
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I'm all for hiding the body, but the last time reset at the testing site, and I don't think the advice we gave would stop the reset (we just said to delay her testing, not find a way to skip it). We need to hide the body, then go back to the site and find a way to skip her testing.
 
organicAI said:
I'm all for hiding the body, but the last time reset at the testing site, and I don't think the advice we gave would stop the reset (we just said to delay her testing, not find a way to skip it). We need to hide the body, then go back to the site and find a way to skip her testing.
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Also thanks for the reminder - we really really need to possibly think about this.

I'll be som mad if we get through all this and then get screamed at for letting the testing treasure be destroyed.
 
Per Cteatus on Discord, Liyu didn't destroy the testing treasure. It was probably Zhi showing up in his Fractal View form.

We are also not going to be able to go back into the village without exposing ourselves to a lot of risk of a reset as the kukuni will be watching.
 
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Enjou said:
in Liyu's case that perfection is marred when she comes home to find her dead father. Coming back to find her home burned down, and presumably her father killed in the fire, is another instance of the day's perfection being marred. That will almost certainly trigger a reset, and even if that is costly, Zhi dies. Zhi cannot survive another reset.
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While largely accurate, Liyu has never been in the loop long enough to go home while Zhi is here. Given the incredibly watchful eyes in the village, I think Ves is hinting that we have to do something here to finish things off. I suggested a plan that involves investigating to cover any further bases, but there's no further use for the house in the loop. The Kukuni never fixed anything inside it, after all.
 
We must be as the destroyer, leaving ash and ruin in our wake. Strike fast and strike true. Burn as much as possible with the Ever-Distant Flames. The entire village must be set aflame if necessary. Leave nothing behind that can be reforged by the Kukuni.
 
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The3rdCorinthian said:
I'm not so sure on that:


I'm inclined to believe Liren. We've talked to this creature - its thoughts are deeply austere and incredibly focused on hyper-efficiency. I don't think this is the kind of creature that would deliberately mar something for personal growth. The concept would be anathema to it, it's not Human, or growth focused, it's focused on making things more perfect. It hates mortals because it hates the fact that they seem unpleasable.

It fancies itself a scholar, but it has the emotional intellect of a particularly sharp pebble.

It's not spending any effort on Liren because it's trying to minmax growth. It's not spending effort on Liren because it legitimately cannot comprehend the idea that effort spent on improving the last day of a dying man would enhance that of others.


Also - Zhi is dogshit at lying, and I think that'll carry over into any writing. We also don't know Liren like Liyu does, wouldn't know how things had been going until recently to come up with a believable lie, and Liyu seems to have cottoned onto the loops.

I don't think there's a universe where Liyu doesn't immediately see through any attempts to decieve her. I don't think burning down the house is needed, but I think trying to overexplain her father dissapearing has potential to backfire.
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Enjous plan doesn't involve leaving a letter or lying to Liyu. It involves removing Lirens body, permanently, and tidying up the house. We thereby remove the event that ruins Liyus "perfect day" that allows the Kukuni to reset the day.

The Kukuni can't just reset the day on a whim, something has to happen that "ruins" the day for someone in the loop. If it could it could just delete Zhi at the start of the day, just immediately restart the loop 10 minutes in. But it doesn't, because it can't. It needs a Cause. Which is why it leaves Liren sick and allows him to die, so that it always has a catalyst for a reset.

But, if it simply doesn't get that catalyst, then it can't reset the day. So by simply removing Liren from the loop and cleaning up the house, thus removing the event that would ruin Liyus day, we allow the day to simply progress as normal and it will end the day the way all days end. By letting the clock hit Midnight.
 
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zang269 said:
While largely accurate, Liyu has never been in the loop long enough to go home while Zhi is here. Given the incredibly watchful eyes in the village, I think Ves is hinting that we have to do something here to finish things off. I suggested a plan that involves investigating to cover any further bases, but there's no further use for the house in the loop. The Kukuni never fixed anything inside it, after all.
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This. I think we need to investigate the house ajd barring finding anything of significant note. Burn it down with the flame.

Key to our issue is we dont know how to kill a kukuni. Our only hint is that we must ruin the perfect day, and that we will get no further loops and we must do it NOW.

The only thing i can think of that would do this is to either dispose of lirens body, or to destroy the whole house.

Its possible that one way to kill a kukuni is to either destroy the place or the object that spawned it. And everything points to it being born in this house when liren found her dead dad.

I think its prob our only option and we have Wog that messing with liren herself trigger reset. So i think tbis is our inly option


[X] burn the house down in a funeral pyre with the ever distant flame after investigating it.
 
DangerKitty said:
[X] burn the house down in a funeral pyre with the ever distant flame after investigating it.
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I do already have this option under a plan name, it might have gotten missed because it was in the middle of something else.
[] Didn't You Know? There's Always An Ending
-[] Investigate the house normally and with SEG, collect anything important, and make the house a funeral pyre with EF. It is past time for Liyu to move on, and there is nothing left in this house for her.
 
There is a weaver, weaving the most wonderful of tapestries. It starts at the beginning, of course, threading the different strands to create something beautiful. They work hard, keeping in mind where each thread should go, the colors of the threads, and their temperament. Despite the weaver's best work, however, at the end of the tapestry the thread frays.

It doesn't know why. So it starts over. With the same threads. Trying to make the tapestry perfect. Still, the thread frays at the end. So it does this, again, and again, and again.

Sometimes it finds more threads in the loom, so it works with them. Other times, some threads become so worn that they are actively detrimental to the tapestry. The weaver removes those threads. It hurts to remove those pieces. After all, it doesn't have an endless number of strands.

But it keeps working, weaving the same tapestry, and the thread keeps fraying at the very end, every time. No matter what it changes, no matter the alterations it makes, the thread frays at the very end. It doesn't know why it frays at the end. It doesn't care why it frays at the end. All it cares about is it. stops. fraying.

How can the weaver's quandry be solved?

Burning some of the threads won't answer the quandry, because that will just mean the tapestry frays earlier and the weaver needs to restart. No, the answer to the quandary is understanding why the thread frays, and then making sure that it doesn't.
 
KreenWarrior said:
Per Cteatus on Discord, Liyu didn't destroy the testing treasure. It was probably Zhi showing up in his Fractal View form.
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We also know the kukuni's form of attacking us and controlling the villagers is linked to the ambient anam. So when we barged into the room and 'ruined' the day, maybe the Treasure broke because the ambient anam was targeting us.
 
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