...considering that we made it out of Eidolon and Faustian without any deaths... I'd say yes for the moment. This isn't an X-Com like- its gonna take a real bad vote on our part to get our heroes to keel over.
 
Not sure where you're getting death threat from? It seemed to me more along the lines of pointing out that if he tried to force the issue he'd be pretty handily out-forced.
Ellie did not threaten him. She made it clear that she and Mona would not accept him as the leader of JU, and that he could not force them to. Both because they were stronger than him, and because they would be crippled as an organization without one of them, let alone both.
 
Not sure where you're getting death threat from? It seemed to me more along the lines of pointing out that if he tried to force the issue he'd be pretty handily out-forced.

She's the one wearing a WMD with "your powers don't work, but my guns still do" as a trump card. He's liable to end up a red smear in the dirt by accident if he acts up very badly.

The threat of being "out forced" by people with tools in that power bracket is a credible death threat by my books, even if I approve of the character of the person making those threats.

I'd certainly treat it like one if I reasonably believed that my powers were explicitly never meant to hurt people.

The implications of that are where my "Novalight impression" quip even comes from, and why I thought it was valid.

Edit: Authorial fiat just dropped, I'm glad that I'm absolutely wrong about how I read the scene and the associated power dynamics at play. I still feel justified in suggesting DNA harvesting since DS is a high value target whose defensive abilities are largely known to possible enemy hyper-cognates and clairvoyants, but that feels like litigating a lost point in the face of aggressive dunking.
 
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The threat of being "out forced" by people with tools in that power bracket is a credible death threat by my books, even if I approve of the character of the person making those threats
That's not a death threat. Firstly, because JU and VG wouldn't ever kill him and that should be very obvious to him, second because she didn't actually threaten any form of harm, let alone death.

VG is perfectly capable of taking down people weaker than her without harming them. She'd be a pretty shitty superhero if she couldn't.
 
The fact that VG responded to man guilty of "the crime of being upset their daughter was killed" with a legitimate death threat to compel him to not pursue that vengeance doesn't exactly feel like a minor one-off interpersonal conflict, but I'm used to misreading whether a thing that sounds like a credible threat is a joke or not.

I'll be happy to be revealed as a paranoid loon in the future, so I'm glad you're on record establishing that position.

I really, earnestly hope that my concern in that vein can be something the thread regards as patently ridiculous in hindsight, but the person who keeps other people alive is also someone who is a high priority in team fights.

But given how we pivoted to "kill the supports" during our last big superhero thunderdome, the thought of that happening to us in the upcoming thunderdome is also something that I referenced that might not have registered as meaningful to consider since a core concern of this arc is likely another all out battle?

Is the thought of preparing for a valuable powerset to be removed from the board really that ridiculous?
> Dr. Silver could be in danger during the next missions, we should try to keep him safe

VS.

>Dr. Silver could be in danger during the next missions, we better start making plans to recycle his DNA.

He is a person with a wife and daughter, not genetic material waiting to be utilized.

Even aside from that the whole point of the system is we can make powers from scratch. We don't need to use DNA samples from prometheans, and I honestly think it would be a bad idea lore wise to do so anyway. The Promethean DNA is full of Goldnine already and full of DNA from other heroes. Adding more goldnine and DNA on top of THAT seems like we discover a new way to explode somebody. In general the system seems to discourage munchkin tactics like that.

She's the one wearing a WMD with "your powers don't work, but my guns still do" as a trump card. He's liable to end up a red smear in the dirt by accident if he acts up very badly.
Are you even taking Ellie's character into account? She's had dinner at John Henry's house with his family. She is not threatening to kill him. She's saying she'd subdue him. Even if she did use a module why does your brain go to the railgun and not the one that literally suppresses powers?

Either way I think it's safe to say we are going to do everything in our power to keep everyone alive.
 
I just folded on that argument like a cheap suit despite my initial attempts at explaining my interpretation of the emotional frames of reference that struck me powerfully enough to bring it up.

I appreciate you and other posters defending the legitimacy of VG's decision and your collective attempts to bring me around to your position that this "didn't really matter the way you felt it does, so stop being a paranoid x-com player, please. This ain't that genre of story/game."

But, I reiterate, I Just Folded. I literally just let go in the face of your collective opposition. The horse is dead, you won.

I have stopped already, even if it doesn't mean anything to you in the face of an easy dunk.
 
Looks between the budget, the order of events, and the amount we've spent this update.

Alright, here the rough order for this turn:

  1. Project Prometheus #1/Rosemary's Baby/Fast Pass!/Legally Distinct Shields/Kessel Run
  2. War in Heaven #1/I Fear Not the Man Who Has Practiced 1000 Kicks/Schoolhouse Rock!/The Little Engine that Could
  3. Train Kept A Rolling/Pest Control/Spider's Web White Tiger
  4. PMJUM/Reality Check
  5. Herolive/Project Prometheus #2
  6. He's Got a Gun!/War in Heaven #2
  7. Mateo Needs a Solid
  8. Smoke on the Water/The Fellowship/Spider Web LLPP/War in Heaven #3
  9. Ain't no Rain on my Parade/Chapter 334/The Ethics of This are Troubling
So I think all I need is an OPS check for shields and a luck check for [REDACTED].

.......Hm.

We've spent about 4000 income this update. Kessel Run (-2000) has yet to be mentioned so I expect that to be upcoming. PP is coming costing 1000. That would equal to 7000, assuming we're not Spoonfulling in the upcoming updates.

And taking all of arc 2 together costs us 5000. Totalling with previous costs to 12000.

In other words, we have a wiggle room of 2000 atm to spend. And you know what, I'm gonna heavily discourage any spending past 1000 for any of the delta plan.

Looking at all that in retrospect, especially with Bitterman highly encouraging us to making another Promethean, I think I'm glad my plan (total cost: 19000) lost XDXDXD
 
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After the movement I assume any counselor and therapist in horizon is booked solid but maybe Yara can torment him with visions of his family grieving in the possible future where he gets himself killed seeking revenge
 
The humor is darker than the black hole that Black Swan might have been named after, but I'll take anything to salvage my dignity at this point.
 
I just folded on that argument like a cheap suit despite my initial attempts at explaining my interpretation of the emotional frames of reference that struck me powerfully enough to bring it up.

I appreciate you and other posters defending the legitimacy of VG's decision and your collective attempts to bring me around to your position that this "didn't really matter the way you felt it does, so stop being a paranoid x-com player, please. This ain't that genre of story/game."

But, I reiterate, I Just Folded. I literally just let go in the face of your collective opposition. The horse is dead, you won.

I have stopped already, even if it doesn't mean anything to you in the face of an easy dunk.
I wasn't trying to dunk on anyone, just explain what I was thinking and why I was thinking it. I think it's fine to disagree about things without there being winners and losers, and I don't think you're bad or should be embarrassed for voicing an opinion that turned out to be slightly unpopular.

The DNA thing just reminded me of some bad experiences I have seen in other quests, so apologies if I came on strong just now.
 
...considering that we made it out of Eidolon and Faustian without any deaths... I'd say yes for the moment. This isn't an X-Com like- its gonna take a real bad vote on our part to get our heroes to keel over.
I think this might be overstated.

We could have lost Handyman in Faustian. It was literally a 50-50, and we got lucky. A flip of a coin, and we simply cannot say this.

Eidolon was a mess — and it could have gone a *lot* worse. If we don't get that Nat 20 saving Mona, for example, I think we would have been in for a bad time. And could have lost someone there.

This is a Quest where it's possible without us making some obviously bad decision — we're going up against foes stronger than ourselves, and the dice are the dice.

(I know you were making a small point about the conversation at hand, but I worry that perceiving hero death as so remote will make it hit all the more harder when it happens. And it is going to happen.)
 
I wasn't trying to dunk on anyone, just explain what I was thinking and why I was thinking it. I think it's fine to disagree about things without there being winners and losers, and I don't think you're bad or should be embarrassed for voicing an opinion that turned out to be slightly unpopular.

The DNA thing just reminded me of some bad experiences I have seen in other quests, so apologies if I came on strong just now.

It's entirely understandable to respond this way, I also love our blorbos and would ride to their defense if pressed, despite my non-participation in the quest.

The power imbalance felt so steep between the speakers that even the implication of combat felt like a serious lethal danger to a character I care about who needs counseling rather than coercion as they appear to engage in the first stages of "lock up and crash out" behavior.

I also felt worried that one of our life extending characters might get ganked during the end of chapter fight gauntlet and tried to express that fear in the same post, but clearly the thread cared more about my misreading the confrontation due to threat oversensitivity while I fumbled that bag.

Your apologies are acknowledged, appreciated, and accepted.

Writing this moving moves people to speak passionately, and even with the recent roasting, I'm glad to be part of this quest if y'all would still have me.

I really do want those fears to be made baseless in the best way possible, by everyone making it through this firestorm with brighter spirits and a healthier world.

Regardless of my place in the quest, or my fitness to ask something of this community, I'll ask anyway:

Can we try our best to make that happen?
 
Yup, Doc Silver is in a bad place, really hope he comes out of this Issue okay (with his vengeance against the DZ behind him)

And man, I really hope we don't lose anyone to this war, got real attached to the JU gang, but I guess it's up to us to make sure that happens.
 
[X] Song Yu-Jin
[X] Plan Δ Basic Fog Machine
-[X] Féth Fíada (6)
-[X] Total Cost of Δ Samples: 500

Once again, I'm pushing for Féth Fíada to be delta'ed for the sake of certain builds I wanna push for in the future. Moreover, I think this one's a good sample to test with the myriads of her keywords

However, seeing as some people seems to want certain dna with synergy as well, I will adapt some of that and make a new plan

[X] Plan Δ Mystic World
-[X] Zeno (9)
-[X] Féth Fíada (6)
-[X] Total Cost of Δ Samples: 1000

1000 is the most I will give. Any plan that cost more than that, I will personally haunt them. Zeno is a very potent sample with Space-Time Manipulation so this is the one I'm picking. I'm not giving up on Féth Fíada however so I'm gonna have to keep that one.

Edit: Forgot about the Wolong question
[X] . . . see if we could begin to formulate a power that could help mitigate or even cure injuries suffered in battle, similar to how Mendicant's secondary power lets them instantly determine the biological makeup of a sample of living matter.
 
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Alright, here the rough order for this turn:

  1. Project Prometheus #1/Rosemary's Baby/Fast Pass!/Legally Distinct Shields/Kessel Run
  2. War in Heaven #1/I Fear Not the Man Who Has Practiced 1000 Kicks/Schoolhouse Rock!/The Little Engine that Could
  3. Train Kept A Rolling/Pest Control/Spider's Web White Tiger
  4. PMJUM/Reality Check
  5. Herolive/Project Prometheus #2
  6. He's Got a Gun!/War in Heaven #2
  7. Mateo Needs a Solid
  8. Smoke on the Water/The Fellowship/Spider Web LLPP/War in Heaven #3
  9. Ain't no Rain on my Parade/Chapter 334/The Ethics of This are Troubling
So I think all I need is an OPS check for shields and a luck check for [REDACTED].

This is the spending/getting during these turns

Project Prometheus #1/Rosemary's Baby/Fast Pass!/Legally Distinct Shields/Kessel Run = - 7000 income & Delta costs + 1 Free Fast Pass + 4 Shield Generators + Delta DNA Discovery + REP bonuses on all missions involving Trilogy, Monarch, or taking place in the NID & damage Crusades' reputation

I Fear Not the Man Who Has Practiced 1000 Kicks/Schoolhouse Rock!/The Little Engine that Could = - 5000 income + Weapon for LL + Increases Income per Issue & Gain bonuses for missions taking place in The Worker's Mitt + Increases Income per Issue & Gain bonuses for any attacks on Apiary

Train Kept A Rolling/Pest Control/Spider's Web White Tiger = 1000 income + chance of Income for Named Behemoth Frigg of Drifting Mistletoe & Eventual chance of establishing permanent supply of goldnine, & eventual chance of alliance with R-Train + info about White Tiger and the Ghost Dragon Triad

PMJUM/Reality Check = chance of 5000 income + Chance of Sponsorship + 1 to control of the OID + Intel about the Frozen Throne + Chance of recruiting Yara and Katie

Herolive/Project Prometheus #2 = -3000 Income + Gain +5000 Income per Issue

He's Got a Gun! = Chance of alliance with QUICK GORILLA + Chance to expand Madeline's menagerie + Chance of +3000 income

Mateo Needs a Solid = ???

Smoke on the Water/The Fellowship/Spider Web LLPP = (Intel on Le Petit Prince & Chance of new metahuman DNA & +2 to control of OID & Chance of eventually recruiting Sparksurfer and Jorōgumo) + (Chance of intel about Monarch & Chance of weakening Monarch's position & Intel about Lethal Anodyne & Chance of alliance with Trilogy & Chance of eventually recruiting a high-tolerance candidate & Chance of recruiting medium-tolerance candidate & +2 to control of the OID) + -1000 Income & info about LPP

Ain't no Rain on my Parade/Chapter 334/The Ethics of This are Troubling = -1000 Income & Unlocks 1 free Spider's Web action every Issue + ??? + chance of sponsership for Neo-Guardian Wave/Neo-POWERS

If we are successful in PMJUM (+1 OID Control), The Fellowship (+2 OID Control) & Smoke on the Water (+2 OID Control) we also regain control of the OID, which will grant us +2000 Income immediately and +2000 income per turn.
 
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[X] Song Yu-Jin
[X] Δ Samples
-[X] None
[X] . . . see if we could begin to formulate a power that could help mitigate or even cure injuries suffered in battle, similar to how Mendicant's secondary power lets them instantly determine the biological makeup of a sample of living matter.
 
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[X] Song Yu-Jin

[X] Δ Samples
-[X] None

The Δ Samples are another expense we can't really afford.

[X] . . . see if we could begin to formulate a power that could help mitigate or even cure injuries suffered in battle, similar to how Mendicant's secondary power lets them instantly determine the biological makeup of a sample of living matter.

a healer that doesn't cost Medicant's fees will be useful.
 
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[X] Song Yu-Jin

[X] Δ Samples
-[X] None

[X] . . . determine if there was any commonality between powers that enhanced physical characteristics, and, if a connection exists, if there is some sort of grand synergy involving a combination of them.

Let's do this.
 
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