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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
--[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
 
[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
--[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
 
Yeah this was really the onlypart of the Deali had any qualm with
[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
--[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
 
Somic said:
Not interested in anything more, no issues with the terms (that I have workable and reasonable solutions for), but I am curious about this one thing. (Sleep is for the weak)
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Solutions should be worked into the negotiation so there on paper rather than something Rhaenyra will have to scheme and dedicate actions towards later. We've been handed a tool to get favorable terms and solutions to problems we have with the situation, and your not bothering to use it because you believe you can do so indirectly later and aren't accounting for competing priorities and trust issues that could potentially arise should we sidestep these negotiations to get our way, to say nothing of action economy.
 
[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
--[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.

I also think we need to add something about the raising of the heir in Dorne or face the undoing of all our work with Tarly. But I'm not smart enough to think of what.
 
Fanhunter696 said:
By the way guys, the tally doesnt' seems to be recognising these votes correctly...
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Alright by removing my proxy vote it is now working as intended.
Azel said:
Most likely because they are voting for each other.
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Yeah removing my proxy break the chain and make it work again.

Current Tally for the curious.
Adhoc vote count started by UrbanAvena on Mar 27, 2025 at 1:59 PM, finished with 135 posts and 22 votes.
  • [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    [X] Accept them as is
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
    --[X] (Optional) Argument for Stepstones : Their location are strategic importance to open Narrow Sea as connection for Rhaenyra supporter bases of Vale, Crownland, and Dorne.
    -[X] Give Rhaenyra Dornish Squire as soon as treaty formalised
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    -[X] Marriage Deadline
    --[X] (Optional) Argument: 18 months places it at high risk of taking place during winter. This could block significant portions of the kingdoms from being able to visit. 24 months is likely more secure
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
    --[X] (Optional) Argument for Stepstones : Their location are strategic importance to open Narrow Sea as connection for Rhaenyra supporter bases of Vale, Crownland, and Dorne.
    -[X] Give Rhaenyra Dornish Squire as soon as treaty formalised
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    [X] Reject Them (This Will Have Ramifications)
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    -[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[x] Write-in bring up the the potential issue about building a dragon pit for sunspear? Tell the prince that dragons should at least have a place to rest and be alone. That Dragonkeepers would be extremely helpful in the matter in making sure that everything goes more smoothly.
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[x] Write-in bring up the the potential issue about building a dragon pit for sunspear? Tell the prince that dragons should at least have a place to rest and be alone. Then ask about the situation in the step stones? What has daemon done now?
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[x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
--[X] (Optional) Argument for Stepstones : Their location are strategic importance to open Narrow Sea as connection for Rhaenyra supporter bases of Vale, Crownland, and Dorne.
-[X] Give Rhaenyra Dornish Squire as soon as treaty formalised
-[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
--[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
-[X] Marriage Deadline
--[X] (Optional) Argument: 18 months places it at high risk of taking place during winter. This could block significant portions of the kingdoms from being able to visit. 24 months is likely more secure
 
[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
--[X] (Optional) Argument for Stepstones : Their location are strategic importance to open Narrow Sea as connection for Rhaenyra supporter bases of Vale, Crownland, and Dorne.
-[X] Give Rhaenyra Dornish Squire as soon as treaty formalised
-[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
--[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
-[X] Marriage Deadline
--[X] (Optional) Argument: 18 months places it at high risk of taking place during winter. This could block significant portions of the kingdoms from being able to visit. 24 months is likely more secure
 
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[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
--[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
-[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
 
[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
--[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
 
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[X] Accept them as is
[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations

i like the leading write-in, but i'm a little worried about Viserys' reaction, he does tend to overlook and easily forgive most of Daemon's, uh, tendencies. he might think Rhaenyra is over reacting or something.
 
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CharlieKing said:
[X] Accept them as is

i like the leading write-in, but i'm a little worried about Viserys' reaction, he does tend to overlook and easily forgive most of Daemon's, uh, tendencies. he might think Rhaenyra is over reacting or something.
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We are speaking with Qoren. He is probably the one that push for longer fealty time to have more preparation time not Viserys. So probably Viserys won't hear this argument.
 
Why are some people so determined to give Sunspear more dragons?

Like a Dragonpit is literally ONLY worth it if they get more Dragons, so you are implicitly arguing to give Dorne more dragons.

They should ONLY have the max of one, that they then lose <100 years down the line.

Rhae's kid who gets Sunspear will be a Targ until inheriting Dorne, so will have a dragon, but THEIR kids will be Martels, and therefor won't have any, and then when that kids eventually dies, they are back to none.

Such a weird stupid thing to get hung up on.

ALSO another advantage is if there's no dragon "infrastructure" the Dorne heir will be more inclined to visit King's Landing and Dragonstone on their own for dragon stuff.

Also:

[x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
--[X] (Optional) Argument for Stepstones : Their location are strategic importance to open Narrow Sea as connection for Rhaenyra supporter bases of Vale, Crownland, and Dorne.
-[X] Give Rhaenyra Dornish Squire as soon as treaty formalised
-[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
--[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
-[X] Marriage Deadline
--[X] (Optional) Argument: 18 months places it at high risk of taking place during winter. This could block significant portions of the kingdoms from being able to visit. 24 months is likely more secure

Dorne's swearing fealty is important - while swearing on Rhae's coronation will look really good, having potentially wait that long is bad AND that literally means Dorne will have a dragon while still independent, their vassalisation will depend on Rhae BEING ALIVE at that point, and will leave VIserys in a bind if Daemons plays games.

Plus Dorne's "wedding gift" will literally be their fealty, which works almost as well as at her coronation for Rhae's image.

Also 18 months is too short, it'll be VERY stupid to have the wedding of the century in winter when most of the realm can't get there.

Just literally have it at start of Spring, it's not like it turns from Winter to Spring in one day, they'll be time to plan it, if that means the engagement lasts 2/3/4 years so be it.

Plus gives time to set up vassalisation if swearing fealty happens upon marriage.
 
[x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
--[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.

Hmm, a thought from me. Perhaps we could see an alternative arrangement of fealty after a certain period of time or tied to the children's ages/being born instead as other options for when to swear fealty earlier than the coronation?
 
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