Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I don't see the point of this quote?


I don't see the point of this quote either. What are you trying to prove exactly?
I am trying to prove that supernatural effects that clearly leave the person they are affecting effectively no way to resist, barring miraculous willpower of a saint or something similar do not violate the Free Will of the victim according to the rules of DresdenFiles as established by Butcher. Only actions that fundamentally cannot be resisted, I think, may count. Translated to game terms, the closest I can think of would be perfect UMI effects.
If that's what your arguing with the previous quotes then look at the Swords being present for the Red Court downfall and the judgement cast by one of the Angels. Uju referenced this.
The knights are allowed to use the swords to exercise their own free will, within certain boundaries.
 
I am trying to prove that supernatural effects that clearly leave the person they are affecting effectively no way to resist, barring miraculous willpower of a saint or something similar do not violate the Free Will of the victim according to the rules of DresdenFiles as established by Butcher. Only actions that fundamentally cannot be resisted, I think, may count. Translated to game terms, the closest I can think of would be perfect UMI effects.

The knights are allowed to use the swords to exercise their own free will, within certain boundaries.
None of those quotes prove that. Butcher wants to have a grim dark setting. That means Angels can't stop every individual Free Will infringing action from taking place. However the basis for the setting existing as it does required that after it reaches a certain scale the White God would do something about it. The Red Court are a good example.

The Knights happen to show up where and when they are needed because the White God directs them. It's the "mysterious ways" excuse that Butcher uses.
 
Arc 15 interlude 2: Raising Sprits New
Raising Sprits

18th of February 2007 A.D. (Flashback)

It wasn't every day that death rang your doorbell and asked to be let inside, Mortimer thought. Death wasn't usually a teenage girl with a tub of Italian chocolate and lemon pasties and a friend in a leather jacket way too light for the weather that his friends and companions insisted had 'improved the Chicago Underground'. Given what he knew of those tunnels he would have assumed the best way to improve them would be with dynamite, but it wasn't a good idea to argue with people who were friends with veil-rippling-spook-stilling Death. Mort's hands did not shake when he took the box of pasties, an old ice cream box he noted, did she had that since this summer or was she eating ice cream in winter? Anything to keep his mind off the reason why She might be here...

"So... I've been hearing down the grapevine that there's someone else taking a hand in the afterlife of Chicago's ghosts..."

Here is comes, 'stop meddling or I'm putting you in the ground.' Bracing as best he could for the inevitable the ectomancer marshaled his arguments. He wasn't keeping anyone from their rest, just helping them stay sane where and how he could. Not like he was out there selling seances of the recently bereaved. Sure he had a book out, but it was harmless stuff, mostly bullshit, mostly harmless bullshit...

"I was looking into someone I by pack and I could liaise with. I'm not always going to be in the city and they know the spiritual side of things more than the material, even then they are used to Britain not America. There will be eyes on this city and maybe worse things. If someone starts meddling with the dead again like the 'Heirs'..."

"Come again?" Mort was pretty sure he hadn't heard well.

"Er...?"

They just looked at each other form a bit, the ectomancer and the daughter of death at least until the other girl cleared her throat. "He's terrified of you for some reason. Not me for some reason, probably because I'm not the Prime Molly."

"So you're not here to tell me to stop?" he blurted out.

"Why would I do that, you're the only one in this whole city helping." Frustration colored her tone. "Well, that's not strictly true, the priests help and the people at the morgue to their job as profesionally as they can, but you can see them, you can talk to them."

"So you're not concerend that I'm keeping the dead anchored to life?"

"Oh is that what's the matter?" The girl, Lydia, his brain could not afford to think of her by that name and not just the power she wore as a cloack. "No, some travelers pass swiftly though the grey river, some linger among the reeds. We are here to touch foundation..."

"Touch base," the other one 'whispered' in a sotto voice.

"Touch base and make sure that you're safe, that you know where to find help and maybe if volunteer a bit yourself if you're up to it." They apparently had flyers, because of course they had flyers, that's just how today was going to go and there was nothing Mort could do about it.

"Ectomacy is an unusual talent, but we have a girl in Philadelphia asking about seeing dead people an the only thing she had to go on before finding us was the Sixth Sense, a film I'm told. I was able to help with the basics, but my experience isn't the same as hers or yours."

"Yeah I'll bet." Mort ate one of the pasties. "Alright I'll see what I can do."

OOC: This just leaves the Marcone SGI action to write, left that one for last since that's going to come with a vote. Turn vote still open until tomorrow.
 
An example of this would be when Michael offered to join on the Hell assault and mentioned "it did not feel wrong" to bring the sword?
Yes, or in canon his first appearance, I think, when he hunted a ghost with Dresden.
None of those quotes prove that. Butcher wants to have a grim dark setting. That means Angels can't stop every individual Free Will infringing action from taking place. However the basis for the setting existing as it does required that after it reaches a certain scale the White God would do something about it. The Red Court are a good example.

The Knights happen to show up where and when they are needed because the White God directs them. It's the "mysterious ways" excuse that Butcher uses.
First of all, allow me to agree that Butcher's attempt to have a grim urban dark fantasy setting that has an omnibenevolent omnipotent Christian God as an ultimate authority led to at least some internal contradictions and tangled tortured twists. The ways we have to contort ourselves to make the setting work on a deep level result in these debates.

I maintain that it is not a matter of scale, but of what counts as Free Will Violations. Your interpretation is also a possible one.

On the matter of knights - yes, but they are not limited to only acting for those, they can also make their own choices.
OOC: This just leaves the Marcone SGI action to write, left that one for last since that's going to come with a vote. Turn vote still open until tomorrow.
What about Family Matters SGI action?

EDIT: Also, nice, paranet in action. And Lydia being the authority in the room. Nice indeed.
 
I maintain that it is not a matter of scale, but of what counts as Free Will Violations. Your interpretation is also a possible one
Well, neither of us are writing this so *shrug*.

On the matter of knights - yes, but they are not limited to only acting for those, they can also make their own choices.
Specifically in regards to Changes Sanya showed up because he felt like he needed to be there. Mysterious Ways (White God/Butcher) is the reason why he was there it was directive from the Sword.

"You're used to solving all your problems the simple way," I said. "Kick down the door, chop up everybody who looks fiendish, save everyone who looks like they might need it. Yeah?"

"It is not always that simple," Sanya said, rather stiffly. "And sometimes I use a gun."

"Which I applaud you for, very progressive," I said. "But the point is, you do your work directly. You pretty much know where you're going, or get shown the way, and after that it's just up to you to take care of business."

"Da," Sanya said as we walked. "I suppose."

"My work is sort of the same," I said. "Except that nobody ever points the way for me."

"You need to know where to go," Sanya said.

"Yes."

"And you are going to consult four large pizzas for guidance."

"Yes," I said.

The big man frowned for a moment. Then he said, "There is, I think, humor here which does not translate well from English into sanity."

"That's pretty rich coming from the agnostic Knight of the Cross with a holy Sword who takes his orders from an archangel," I said.

"Gabriel could be an alien being of some kind," Sanya said placidly. "It does not change the value of what I do - not to me and not to those whom I protect."
 
I maintain that it is not a matter of scale, but of what counts as Free Will Violations. Your interpretation is also a possible one.
The ability to destroy a lifeless galaxy is insignificant* next to the power to change your mind.

*In the most literal meaning of the word. It's not significant because no one cares.
 
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okay the votes open till tomorrow. Which means I still have some time to convince people. Also maybe make some alternate plans.

Okay just straight up Yog's plan except we don't go chasing enemies into the Never Never without crafting anything.
Going with the plan that keeps promises.
[X] Plan Foundation Establishment
[X] Plan Foundation Establishment
It covers what I need out of a plan.
[X] Plan Foundation Establishment
The plan itself is great
[X] Plan Foundation Establishment

[X] Plan Foundation Establishment + Craft
-[X] Molly Prime
--[X] Fortress construction
: Organize, improve, create defenses around the portal to Sanctuary, 1 AP + 2 bonus AP
---[X] Devote 2 of Sanctuary management SGI AP to helping this
---[X] Involve Olivia in this
-[X] NEW A God for Chicago: The city could use a protector for when you're not around and you even know where to start... you think (0/12 AP), 1 AP
--[X] Prodigious Artifacts: Crafting - 1 AP
---[X] Warding Garments of Death ●●● Splendor - Lydia's Blood
---[X] The Long Arm ●● Prodigy Prima Metallum Greatsword
---[X] Extended Hands of Mercy ●●● Splendor - Tiffany's Pinion
---[X] The Refined Cauldron ●● Prodigy
---[X] The Alembic of Refining ●● Prodigy
---[X] Peach Tree of Immortality ●●● Splendor - Arianna Ortega
---[X] Ever Ready Draft Roller ●● Prodigy
---[X] Lock in Choker ●● Prodigy
---[X] The True Staff ●● Prodigy
---[X] S.T.O.N.E. Structural Tectonic Optimization and Navigation Engine Invention
---[X] Ring of Will ●●● Splendor - Gossamer
---[X] High Quality Prima Metallum-Weave Armour ●● Prodigy x4
---[X] Tempestes Domini ●●●● Splendor - Lord of Outer Night
---[X] Internal Synthetic Infernal Symbiote ●●● Variant Golem Arcana
---[X] Storm Heart ●●●●● Splendor - Heart's Blo od of Iku Turso
-[X] Secure the Shard of Gold: The Temple of Ra Descending holds a mechanism of ancient wonder at the heart of which rests a shard of power born of past ages. While they have been good swards to it until now it still worried you that such a thing should be protected only by mortal magic and faith. See if you can get them to accept more protections
-[X] NEW [SGI] Hunt Down Foes: As many many ships of the damned as you sank last month plenty of rats managed to abandon them in time, 1 AP total
--[X] Evil Bob: Last you heard he was somewhere in Egypt, or at least the monster he bargained with was, 1 AP
-[X] A friend in need. You promised Rosie that you would help and so you will, with problems material and ethereal
--[X] NEW Convention Time: You did promise and Rosie is doing a lot better. There's the baby to consider sure, but you have a whole world in your soul, keeping Amanda there on the go should be fine, 1 AP
-[X] Molly Clones, 24 AP total
--[X] [SGI] Crown and Scepter,
see what good your unique talents can be put towards in Sanctuary. 6 SGI AP
--[X] [SGI] Making money, 4 SGI AP total
---[X] Updated [SGI] A Big Score, your Crown isn't really made for picking out random numbers in a mundane draw, but it is still your power so you can push it that one time to win a lottery... any lottery. You will have to find the balance between payout and anonymity and some place to park the money but that seems reasonably doable with some help from mom and dad, and unlike some of your other plans they are unlikely to object to this form of cheating at gambling
---[X] NEW [SGI] Big Screen: Work on turning your movie studio productive. Olivia is studying to be a professional performer, so she might be a good future star, or know aspiring talents you might want to recruit. And surely Sanctuary has both the stories to tell, and special effects far in advance of the best of Hollywood, which can be applied through the already established studio.
---[X] NEW [SGI] Entertainment from the courts: – cartoons, video games, card and board games are a worldwide phenomenon, present in all cultures, and far easier to transfer from Sanctuary to Earth due to the nature of both happening in imaginary worlds. You can use Harry and Alphas to test what works best for Earthly players.
---[X] NEW [SGI] Advanced materials: High temperature superconductors, advanced steels and alloys, nanotubes and more exotic materials still – your Courts understanding of material science is far superior to the best Earth has to offer. Time to start leveraging that advantage. Look into starting exports and/or production Earthside of materials that Earth doesn't have analogs of. Nothing too advanced at first, of course.
--[X] Real Estate. 3 SGI AP
---[X] NEW [SGI] Chicago Real Estate: With the real estate crash merely blunted and delayed, but not averted, and seed money coming in, it's time to start investigating what to buy.
---[X] NEW [SGI] Las Vegas Real Estate: Basing rights involve having actual base.
---[X] NEW [SGI] Earthside portal real estate: no matter how fictitious it is, having claim on the Earthside land around the portal, or at least preventing Red Court from having it prevents at least some troubles from arising
--[X] NEW [SGI] Gun Running: Coordinate giving Saint Giles some real backing in a mix of material transfers and operational support. 1 AP/Each, 2 AP total
---[X] Export grade weapons of the types they already have samples of.
--[X] Personal Actions. 3 SGI AP
---[X] [SGI] Attend school you have friends at school and you would like the memories of senior year and graduation even if they won't be teaching you anything worthwhile
---[X] [WRITE-IN: INVESTIGATION] IMMIGRANT SONG: Ensure the Mendozas are settled in and secure. 1 SGI AP
---[X] Family activities. 1 SGI AP
--[X] Magic. 7 SGI AP
---[X] [SGI] Alchemy, 5 SGI AP total
----[X] Alchemical production, 5 SGI AP
---[X] Ancient Studies: Teach Harry, Lydia, and Tiffany, if she can learn, Awakened Eye of the Dragon Ancient Sorcery, 1 SGI AP
---[X] From the pen of: start writing books "soulgazing made safe" book. 1 SGI AP
-[X] Free actions
--[X][CRAFTING]
Attune and Study the Dark Rider: 1 AP
---[X] NEW... or you could give it to Harry as a loan [Free Action]
-[X] Updated New Artifact Workshop: Crafting a place of potential, a wild seed so near to the world of form is no easy thing, but once it's done you are sure it will pay for itself in full FREE ACTION
--[X] 1 AP from Tiffany
--[X] Crown Questions
---[X]
What does Mab know concerning the subject of your exaltation? (use the recording of your talk with Mab when she referred to you as Green Sun)
---[X] Who was Hollow Man referring to when he offered to tell Molly of other people like her in exchange for his life? (use record of his word)
---[X] How (by what means) has Mikaboshi seized the power from its previous owner? (use freed Wicked City slaves)
---[X] What are the consequences of Harry becoming the Warden of Demonreach that the spirit of Demonreach is unable or unwilling to tell him about?
---[X] What has Thorned Namshiel learned from their encounter with us?
--[X] Get Tiffany to boost Molly's and Lydia's physical parameters to 5 permanently
--[X] Quartermaster's prep: assemble items for later use via DPM
---[X] Weapons: guns, explosives and such
---[X] Mundane protective equipment: gas masks, fire extinguishers

Also literally just Uju32's plan without the strange write in for a horror convention in a different country rather than the one actually referred to that takes place in Chicago and The Craft
[X]PLAN MONEY POWER AND RESPECT

[X]PLAN MONEY POWER AND RESPECT + CRAFT
-[X] MOLLY PRIME: 6 AP + 2 Malcoffee AP
--[X][FINANCES AND INFRASTRUCTURE]In the Sky a Thousand Eyes: Satellite cyberdevils. 1AP
--[X][PERSONAL TRAINING] The Bridges of the Spirit: Continue your training in the Bridge of Dreams. 1AP + 2 Malcoffee AP
--[X][INVESTIGATION] A Friend in Need. You promised Rosie that you would help. 1AP
----[X] NEW Convention Time: You did promise and Rosie is doing a lot better. There's the baby to consider sure, but you have a whole world in your soul, keeping Amanda there on the go should be fine, 1 AP
--[X][CRAFTING] Attune and Study the Dark Rider: 1 AP
---[X] NEW... or you could give it to Harry as a loan [Free Action]
--[X][CRAFTING] Updated New Artifact Workshop: Crafting a place of potential(8/10 AP) [+ 1d4 Joe + 1 Tiffany]: 0 AP
--[X] Prodigious Artifacts: Crafting - 1 AP
---[X] Warding Garments of Death ●●● Splendor - Lydia's Blood
---[X] The Long Arm ●● Prodigy Prima Metallum Greatsword
---[X] Extended Hands of Mercy ●●● Splendor - Tiffany's Pinion
---[X] The Refined Cauldron ●● Prodigy
---[X] The Alembic of Refining ●● Prodigy
---[X] Peach Tree of Immortality ●●● Splendor - Arianna Ortega
---[X] Ever Ready Draft Roller ●● Prodigy
---[X] Lock in Choker ●● Prodigy
---[X] The True Staff ●● Prodigy
---[X] S.T.O.N.E. Structural Tectonic Optimization and Navigation Engine Invention
---[X] Ring of Will ●●● Splendor - Gossamer
---[X] High Quality Prima Metallum-Weave Armour ●● Prodigy x4
---[X] Tempestes Domini ●●●● Splendor - Lord of Outer Night
---[X] Internal Synthetic Infernal Symbiote ●●● Variant Golem Arcana
---[X] Storm Heart ●●●●● Splendor - Heart's Blood of Iku Turso
--[X][INVESTIGATION] Secure the Shard of Gold: See if you can get them to accept more protections. 1AP
--[X][INVESTIGATION] The Queen and the Kingdom: Get to know one of your lands and peoples. 1AP
---[X] Introduce the Jade Dogs in general to your kingdom, some will likely prefer a world where they dont have to hide
--[X][WRITE-IN INVESTIGATION]Crown Question: Focus: 1st Namshiel Recording. What did Namshiel learn about Molly?
-[X]SPLINTERED GALE INCARNATION: 24/24 SGI AP
--[X][SCHOOL][SGI] Attend school: 1 SGI AP
--[X][FINANCES AND INFRASTRUCTURE] Updated [SGI] A Big Score: Crown Lottery. 1 SGI AP
--[X][FINANCES AND INFRASTRUCTURE] NEW [SGI] Chicago Real Estate: 1 SGI AP
--[X][FINANCES AND INFRASTRUCTURE] NEW [SGI] Las Vegas Real Estate: Basing rights involve having actual base. 1 SGI AP
--[X][FINANCES AND INFRASTRUCTURE] NEW [SGI] Earthside portal real estate: 1 SGI AP
--[X][FINANCES AND INFRASTRUCTURE] NEW [SGI] Gun Running: 2 SGI AP
---[X] High explosives and similar materials, Medical equipment
---[X] Export grade weapons of the types they already have samples of.
--[X][INVESTIGATION] [SGI] Crown and Scepter: See what good your talents can be put towards in Sanctuary. 2 SGI AP
--[X][INVESTIGATION] NEW [SGI] Hunt Down Foes: 2 SGI AP
---[X] True Magi: From Africa and Asia, from Europe to Australia... and even some talk of Nazis in the Nevernever of all things
---[X] Evil Bob: Last you heard he was somewhere in Egypt, or at least the monster he bargained with was
--[X][FAMILY TIME] [SGI] NEW Introductions To More of You: Twin jokes aside it's going to take time and care: 1 SGI AP
--[X][WRITE-IN: INVESTIGATION] UNDER PRESSURE: Forthill and Von Triers both confirm an ongoing smear campaigns at the Church by an unknown third party. Investigate. 1 SGI AP
--[X][WRITE-IN: INVESTIGATION] IMMIGRANT SONG: Ensure the Mendozas are settled in and secure. 1 SGI AP
--[X][WRITE-IN: INVESTIGATION] HELLMOUTH: Study how to close the portal to Sanctuary in the Amazon. 3 SGI AP
--[X][WRITE-IN: CRAFTING] ALCHEMY: Making potions of Astarte Veneria, Nabu Mercury and Malcoffee: 4 SGI AP
--[X][WRITE-IN: INVESTIGATION]: WHOLE NEW WORLD: Introduce Rosie to Sanctuary and more of your safer new friends and associates(Cauldron, Olivia, Lydia,Thomas, Harry, Tiffany, reintroduction to your family with baby): 3 SGI AP
--[X][WRITE-IN: ARCANE ALLIES]: TOYS FOR TOTS: Off the shelf armor(Fae mail equivalent, Armor 3, no penalty) + other starter gear for baby Wardens in training. 1 SGI AP

[X]Plan Power Overwhelming
-[X] MOLLY PRIME: 6 AP + 2 Malcoffee AP
--[X] NEW A God for Chicago: The city could use a protector for when you're not around and you even know where to start... you think (0/12 AP), 1 AP
--[X] New Artifact Workshop: Crafting a place of potential, a wild seed so near to the world of form is no easy thing, but once it's done you are sure it will pay for itself in full (8/10 AP) Crafting a place of potential (8/10 AP) [+ 1d4 Joe + 1 Tiffany]: 0 AP
--[X] Prodigious Artifacts: Crafting - 1 AP
---[X] Warding Garments of Death ●●● Splendor - Lydia's Blood
---[X] The Long Arm ●● Prodigy Prima Metallum Greatsword
---[X] Extended Hands of Mercy ●●● Splendor - Tiffany's Pinion
---[X] The Refined Cauldron ●● Prodigy
---[X] The Alembic of Refining ●● Prodigy
---[X] Peach Tree of Immortality ●●● Splendor - Arianna Ortega
---[X] Ever Ready Draft Roller ●● Prodigy
---[X] Lock in Choker ●● Prodigy
---[X] The True Staff ●● Prodigy
---[X] S.T.O.N.E. Structural Tectonic Optimization and Navigation Engine Invention
---[X] Ring of Will ●●● Splendor - Gossamer
---[X] High Quality Prima Metallum-Weave Armour ●● Prodigy x4
---[X] Tempestes Domini ●●●● Splendor - Lord of Outer Night
---[X] Internal Synthetic Infernal Symbiote ●●● Variant Golem Arcana
---[X] Storm Heart ●●●●● Splendor - Heart's Blood of Iku Turso
--[X] Fortress construction: Organize, improve, create defenses around the portal to Sanctuary, 1 AP
--[X][PERSONAL TRAINING] The Bridges of the Spirit: Continue your training in the Bridge of Dreams. 1AP + 1 Malcoffee AP
--[X] Trading in lore, you have started down the path of learning alchemy from Bob... and revealing some of the deepest secrets of Yomi Wan, both very good things as far as you are concerned. (0/25) 1 AP+ 1 Malcoffee AP
--[X] NEW Convention Time: You did promise and Rosie is doing a lot better. There's the baby to consider sure, but you have a whole world in your soul, keeping Amanda there on the go should be fine, 1 AP
-[X]SPLINTERED GALE INCARNATION: 24/24 SGI AP
--[X] [SGI] Crown and Scepter, see what good your unique talents can be put towards in Sanctuary. 6 SGI AP
--[X] [SGI] Making money, 5 SGI AP total
---[X] Updated [SGI] A Big Score, your Crown isn't really made for picking out random numbers in a mundane draw, but it is still your power so you can push it that one time to win a lottery... any lottery. You will have to find the balance between payout and anonymity and some place to park the money but that seems reasonably doable with some help from mom and dad, and unlike some of your other plans they are unlikely to object to this form of cheating at gambling
---[X] NEW [SGI] Big Screen: Work on turning your movie studio productive. Olivia is studying to be a professional performer, so she might be a good future star, or know aspiring talents you might want to recruit. And surely Sanctuary has both the stories to tell, and special effects far in advance of the best of Hollywood, which can be applied through the already established studio.
---[X] NEW [SGI] Entertainment from the courts: – cartoons, video games, card and board games are a worldwide phenomenon, present in all cultures, and far easier to transfer from Sanctuary to Earth due to the nature of both happening in imaginary worlds. You can use Harry and Alphas to test what works best for Earthly players.
---[X] NEW [SGI] Advanced materials: High temperature superconductors, advanced steels and alloys, nanotubes and more exotic materials still – your Courts understanding of material science is far superior to the best Earth has to offer. Time to start leveraging that advantage. Look into starting exports and/or production Earthside of materials that Earth doesn't have analogs of. Nothing too advanced at first, of course.
--[X] Real Estate. 3 SGI AP
---[X] NEW [SGI] Chicago Real Estate: With the real estate crash merely blunted and delayed, but not averted, and seed money coming in, it's time to start investigating what to buy.
---[X] NEW [SGI] Las Vegas Real Estate: Basing rights involve having actual base.
---[X] NEW [SGI] Earthside portal real estate: no matter how fictitious it is, having claim on the Earthside land around the portal, or at least preventing Red Court from having it prevents at least some troubles from arising
--[X] NEW [SGI] Gun Running: Coordinate giving Saint Giles some real backing in a mix of material transfers and operational support. 1 AP/Each
---[X] Sutra cyber attack squads stealing everything they can get their hands on from the red court and funneling it their way.
---[X] Export grade weapons of the types they already have samples of.
--[X] Personal Actions. 3 SGI AP
---[X] Babysit for Rosie: Young Amanda is precocious and you are her godmother. Babysit for her so Rosie has time for further education. 1 SGI AP
---[X] [SGI] Attend school you have friends at school and you would like the memories of senior year and graduation even if they won't be teaching you anything worthwhile
--[X] Magic. 7 SGI AP
---[X] [SGI] Alchemy, 5 SGI AP total
----[X] Alchemical production, 5 SGI AP
---[X] Ancient Studies: Teach Harry, Lydia, and Tiffany, if she can learn, Awakened Eye of the Dragon Ancient Sorcery, 1 SGI AP
---[X] From the pen of: start writing books "soulgazing made safe" book. 1 SGI AP
-[X] Free actions
--[X][CRAFTING] Attune and Study the Dark Rider: 1 AP
---[X] NEW... or you could give it to Harry as a loan [Free Action]
--[X] Crown Questions
---[X] What does Mab know concerning the subject of your exaltation? (use the recording of your talk with Mab when she referred to you as Green Sun)
---[X] Who was Hollow Man referring to when he offered to tell Molly of other people like her in exchange for his life? (use record of his word)
---[X] How (by what means) has Mikaboshi seized the power from its previous owner? (use freed Wicked City slaves)
---[X] What are the consequences of Harry becoming the Warden of Demonreach that the spirit of Demonreach is unable or unwilling to tell him about?
---[X] What has Thorned Namshiel learned from their encounter with us?
--[X] Get Tiffany to boost Molly's and Lydia's physical parameters to 5 permanently
--[X] Quartermaster's prep: assemble items for later use via DPM
---[X] Weapons: guns, explosives and such
---[X] Mundane protective equipment: gas masks, fire extinguishers

Sorry for clogging the thread.
 
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Right, that too, thanks for reminding me.
In addition we have the Crown and Scepter action and the Winter Teachings to be presented.
Also --[][INVESTIGATIONS] Updated [SGI] Higher Education: Engage with mundane side of getting into Harvard: 2 SGI AP

Now that I look at it. Sorry, DragonParadox. Still, that appears to be the last one - we really tried to get basically every option available done.

This probably can be rolled into FAMILY MATTERS, though? Location-wise, at least, they are close.
 
One This isn't mass tagging two it's explicitly content/context sensitive three that's fine have a nice day.

It basically is mass tagging, you did send a lot of pings via the quotes.

Also, while I can admit it technically gives options, having that many plans in your post isn't helping, as it makes it unlikely people will read all of them to search for the one that interests them.

It can work when every idea is one or two lines, but for something that big it doesn't.
 
It can work when every idea is one or two lines, but for something that big it doesn't.
That's fair enough.

I'm in so much not pain per se but definitely this is not great feeling all told. As it happens every time there's an XP spend so far but now the crafting place is almost ready and there's a moment to dedicate AP to craft and there's very little support.

People complain about not having ranged options people complain about being injured people complain about XYZ phenomenon and the time comes to get something to quell that phenomenon whether that be

Essence economy
Willpower Economy
Action economy
Potion economy
Lack of range options
Lack of perfect defenses
Health levels
Soak (of Party members)

Along with so many other things and then the XP vote comes around and everything spent is on shit completely tangential to any level of complaint just the next shiny thing. My frustrations may be coming to a boiling point.

So I'm left with the question did anyone actually care about any of those things when they said them or do people just not like crafting because one of those things is way easier to be fine with if people just don't like not a major project crafting (I. E projects that require significant AP investment like God of Chicago Tiffany and Last Station) then I can stop trying to make prodigies and I can stop trying to to make prodigies splendors Alchemy recipes all of it and just enjoy the quest as an action thing.

So I feel like I'm going insane Molly has the exalted crafting charm she has a high craft ability score she has a crafting Excellency. It feels like now that we have a moment to do some crafting we should do it and I don't.... I'm having trouble reconciling the complaints and thoughts that have been articulated earlier and the complete lack of action but it is what it is.

Edit: sorry to dump that on you like that Jesus you just said something that made sense and then I released all of that on you my bad.
 
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That's fair enough.

I'm in so much not pain per se but definitely this is not great feeling all told. As it happens every time there's an XP spend so far but now the crafting place is almost ready and there's a moment to dedicate AP to craft and there's very little support.

People complain about not having ranged options people complain about being injured people complain about XYZ phenomenon and the time comes to get something to quell that phenomenon whether that be

Essence economy
Willpower Economy
Action economy
Potion economy
Lack of range options
Lack of perfect defenses
Health levels
Soak (of Party members)

Along with so many other things and then the XP vote comes around and everything spent is on shit completely tangential to any level of complaint just the next shiny thing. My frustrations may be coming to a boiling point.

So I'm left with the question did anyone actually care about any of those things when they said them or do people just not like crafting because one of those things is way easier to be fine with if people just don't like not a major project crafting (I. E projects that require significant AP investment like God of Chicago Tiffany and Last Station) then I can stop trying to make prodigies and I can stop trying to to make prodigies splendors Alchemy recipes all of it and just enjoy the quest as an action thing.

So I feel like I'm going insane Molly has the exalted crafting charm she has a high craft ability score she has a crafting Excellency. It feels like now that we have a moment to do some crafting we should do it and I don't.... I'm having trouble reconciling the complaints and thoughts that have been articulated earlier and the complete lack of action but it is what it is.

Edit: sorry to dump that on you like that Jesus you just said something that made sense and then I released all of that on you my bad.
I understand your frustration, because I have felt the same way several times before here, if for different reasons, but I can only explain my position and not that of others.

As I said before, I really like the crafting spell, but for unique, big, impressive things, like the Last Station, The Forge, the God of Chicago and Our Future Dragon Son, with that splendor that we gave to Lily giving me the same feeling because of the narrative and history around it.

What I hate are the recipes for potions and accessories in bulk because it loses all the charm that I feel in it and makes them cheaper for me, I barely support the idea of reforming the Yin sword for Daniel because he is Molly's brother, Lydia's boyfriend and one of the first outsiders to do the training in our Courts, as a symbol for himself that he can help the people he loves in a more direct way.

That's why I always bite my tongue when Yog talks about us wasting our time doing these cool things and giving to God and the world without getting anything back, I was here from the beginning and I didn't vote for that direction for Molly's growth and it wasn't what she got.

We weren't supposed to be doing crafts all the time, Molly was supposed to be a sorceress, that's why we got the Heir of Bright (but we only bought two ancient spells with one being a one-time thing and without the Scepter and Pentacle), we were supposed to be a leader who can boost morale and lead in a more personal way, but then we became the Queen of Billions with almost nothing in law and politics, etc.

So if there was some kind of narrative that captured my imagination and was just one or two, I would support it with all my heart instead of just seeming like a shopping list for things that I feel should be treated as important.

It's nothing about how you came up with the plans, because like I said they're great for those who like that direction, it just doesn't really fit with my wishes for Molly.
 
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As I said before, I really like the crafting spell, but for unique, big, impressive things, like the Last Station, The Forge, the God of Chicago and Our Future Dragon Son, with that splendor that we gave to Lily giving me the same feeling because of the narrative and history around it.

What I hate are the recipes for potions and accessories in bulk because it loses all the charm that I feel in it and makes them cheaper for me, I barely support the idea of reforming the Yin sword for Daniel because he is Molly's brother, Lydia's boyfriend and one of the first outsiders to do the training in our Courts, as a symbol for himself that he can help the people he loves in a more direct way.
Then we can never really craft anything a very least if people in general feel like that then we're never going to be able to make armor for ourselves because it doesn't take an entire AP to make armor we didn't need to spend AP to forge the armor that we already have nor the shield that we already have.

Everything has a time it takes to produce and unless something changes that time isn't going to change and no one is going to feel great about spending a whole AP and getting less than the time the AP is worth which means nothing will ever get crafted that isn't just story projects.

We weren't supposed to be doing crafts all the time, Molly was supposed to be a sorceress, that's why we got the Heir of Bright (but we only bought two ancient spells with one being a one-time thing and without the Scepter and Pentacle), we were supposed to be a leader who can boost morale and lead in a more personal way, but then we became the Queen of Billions with almost nothing in law and politics, etc.
Molly has thus far never made a splendor for herself Nor a Prodigy and no inventions either, nor has she benefited at all from that 20 XP charm that allows her to make all of those things. It appears that as far as this Quest goes she is doomed to be the woman who plants the tree knowing she will never rest in its shade.

We aren't crafting all the time we craft in service for other people only and ever and apparently that's the only time we'll ever do it last station Porter, the god of Chicago will not serve us directly, the forge is a waste of time because we will never use it the Dragon yet again same idea as the God should it ever actually manifest.

On the sorcery front I do understand I post Pentacle and scepter containing plans every single time along with actual sorcery that would benefit from it.

It's nothing about how you came up with the plans, because like I said they're great for those who like that direction, it just doesn't really fit with my wishes for Molly.
Splendors are solidified ancient sorcery prodigies are literally Enchanted items. It feels contradictory at very least in my mind to say being a sorcerer who makes magic items that directly capitalize and strengthen their magic is a different direction from being a sorceress.
 
if he is causing problems for us or not doing the job for some reason, we will do as the exalted of old, we will kill him and use the reagents from this to create a new one.
No thanks. I'd rather just peacefully part ways if we disagree with them, and I'd rather lock them away for the foreseeable future than kill them. Killing them after creating them isn't a course of action I see myself getting behind, and it would be an absolute last resort. I'll definitely vote with that mindset if it ever comes up in the future.

Power overwhelming plan change in the sky a thousand eyes replaced with the god of Chicago.
That makes it less appealing. Thousand Eyes was the biggest draw that your plan had in my opinion.
 
That makes it less appealing. Thousand Eyes was the biggest draw that your plan had in my opinion.
On a slightly separate note would anyone mind and on an equal footing would anyone be willing to vote for the plan if I changed in the sky a thousand eyes to a god of Chicago?
Would you be willing to vote for a different plan or approval vote power overwhelming if it had Thousand Eyes?

At the moment it just kind of seems and I don't mean that you are like you're rubbing salt in the wound for no particular reason.
 
Would you be willing to vote for a different plan or approval vote power overwhelming if it had Thousand Eyes?

At the moment it just kind of seems and I don't mean that you are like you're rubbing salt in the wound for no particular reason.
If it makes this any less painful, I am planning to vote for the panoply crafting as soon as we have the forge finished, ie next month. If nothing else, I ant to have a full panoply and probably something specifically crafted for raiding Syriothrax's hoard. 1

Also, on an unrelated note, github was first released in October 2007. We could cut them off at the knees and release our own superior project. Also probably a lot of other backend stuff.
 
We weren't supposed to be doing crafts all the time, Molly was supposed to be a sorceress, that's why we got the Heir of Bright (but we only bought two ancient spells with one being a one-time thing and without the Scepter and Pentacle), we were supposed to be a leader who can boost morale and lead in a more personal way, but then we became the Queen of Billions with almost nothing in law and politics, etc.

The eternal problem of deciding a build by committee, some people want one thing and others want another and the drift in voters means that the first idea is likely to never be followed up in the first place.

Though, when it comes to sorcery in particular I am pretty sure it was destined to fail as it costs too much XP and time for too little an effect to be interesting.

Almost everything it can do, a charm does better, and we already got the exception (the exorcism) so there isn't a need to take anything else.
 
I am also ready to vote for full craft for the next turn. I hope it will work out. New armor, guns, weapons, defenses and so on. Plus our plans and responsibilities. I hope it will work out and we will not be interrupted. again.
 
I am also ready to vote for full craft for the next turn. I hope it will work out. New armor, guns, weapons, defenses and so on. Plus our plans and responsibilities. I hope it will work out and we will not be interrupted. again.
Let's hope there won't be super pressing events popping up next month. If not for Bob and True Magi requiring swift conclusions, I would have been very happy to do crafting this turn. And probably satellites.
 
I am also ready to vote for full craft for the next turn. I hope it will work out. New armor, guns, weapons, defenses and so on. Plus our plans and responsibilities. I hope it will work out and we will not be interrupted. again.
Let's hope there won't be super pressing events popping up next month. If not for Bob and True Magi requiring swift conclusions, I would have been very happy to do crafting this turn. And probably satellites.

Pretty sure it's never going to happen and there will always be *something* going on.
 
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