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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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firefrog600 said:
I mean first of all WE can't make that period its not something in our books and if we could WHY THE FUCK HAVEN'T WE?
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1) We cant make Wonders. Thats probably a Wonder, or a product of high-end Enchantment Path.

2) We havent needed it?
Most of our enemies are not and havent been wizards, and we have some of the best countermagic in the game besides.
On top of antishaping.

We might make it for other people, but Molly herself doesnt really need it.
 
also in fairness to everyone around Odin is literally a god of magic having wizard magic period might not be beyond him unlike others. Not to mention with the way mantles work and names some of the names butcher gave to odin were mortals essentially so his origins and what he really is in certain circumstances is weird.
 
uju32 said:
White Night c37-38



They arent common, but they do exist in the Dresdenverse.
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Personally I don't think we should assume those are actually perfect magic immunity just because two young wizards didn't know how to react to it. Especially when it's a random McGuffin that pops up and goes away without mention.

Even the better grade immunity of the white king only protected him from wizards blasting his ass, Margaret's death curse wasn't indirect, that was straight up a shaping effect sewing his mouth closed.

If Madrigal of all people can get them then it's strange none of say the Denarians bother to. That whole thing is a weird glitch in the matrix on a lot of levels.
 
Well, it was worth the risk. It would save us from having to spend time studying and breaking through... Well, too much time. But still, Harry has now saved us time and become stronger. That's great news for his role in the future of this quest. Now we just have to save everyone else. I really hope Merlin hasn't fallen.
 
Anaja said:
Awhile ago it was mentioned that exposure to Molly's primordial nature was possibly leading to Harry developing an exotic specialty as a wizard. He's experienced some more stuff since then. Seeing Tiffany's body be made and this jump to mind.

DragonParadox, is he developing something that would express itself as something other than an increase in arete and/or spheres?
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That is why he got awakened Essence, that would not have been an option even for this had he not been exposed to Essence use
 
BronzeTongue said:
Personally I don't think we should assume those are actually perfect magic immunity just because two young wizards didn't know how to react to it. Especially when it's a random McGuffin that pops up and goes away without mention.

Even the better grade immunity of the white king only protected him from wizards blasting his ass, Margaret's death curse wasn't indirect, that was straight up a shaping effect sewing his mouth closed.

If Madrigal of all people can get them then it's strange none of say the Denarians bother to. That whole thing is a weird glitch in the matrix on a lot of levels.
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1)Given as the light touch of a Wardensword disrupted it, Id say its not perfect magic immunity.
But young wizards or not, Harry and Carlos were still reasonably deadly combat wizards.
Harry in particular has been repeatedly reiterated as one of the brawniest wizards around.

Madrigal specifically got these after his previous encounter with Harry; it makes sense they are Harry-rated.


2)All magic has its limits.
Note how it didnt defend him against Lara using vampire magic to aggressively re-negotiate their relationship either.

As I understand it, Maggie's curse didnt affect him it just affected his vicinity, preventing him from getting any nourishment before it could get to him.
It would probably be a shaping effect in Exalted terms, but since it wasnt aimed at him, it slipped through the programming.


3) The Denarians, like Molly, have access to innate magical defenses to greater and lesser extent.
Note how Harry has never been able to track a Denarian or Denarian captive with magic. And frankly, their major threats are Knights of the Cross, who dont use magic that can be counterspelled. A Sword gives zero fucks about your antimagic defenses.

I would not be surprised if some of them did put together their own collection though, especially the younger ones.
Nobody is going to look at Nicodemus walking around with a two thousand year old hemp rope necktie of invincibility and not look for their own knicknacks.

But we dont see many Denarians up close in canon, so we dont know how they operate.
 
DragonParadox said:
He did not have an avatar rating in canon, Dresdenverse mages do not have that as a common ability, some of them may learn how to store power. Sorcerers find it easier to do it. This is for reasons that would be somewhat spoiler-y to explain.
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The reason is they can just use energy from the environment. Wizards don't need to store energy imo.



But seriously if i was playing mage i would spend half a dozen session trying to get those abilties if they were a possibility.

Like auto success are just by far the most usefull thing to a wizard. Like everything else from essence is worthless in comparison.
 
When you think about it, Dresden is now probably close to if not already at Morgan/Senior Council levels of combat prowess.

A wizard's greatest weakness is their fragility, but their greatest strength is the ability to tailor their approach to their opponent, given sufficient time. Which nobody ever gives wizards during combat, because the only thing worse than a healer is the dude powering up a Spirit Bomb aimed at your elemental weakness.

Now though? Dresden can actually use Thaumaturgy with combat-relevant speed, while before being able to do so marked you as a true Master of Magic, with peak human skill and centuries of experience.

And Dresden can teach this shit ro everyone. Putting aside how strong the Merlin's gonna be if he survives (remember, he's a Master of Warding, shit that usually takes time, and he was already strong enough to hold off armies in the Nevernever with a quickly-drawn Ward), the base ability of wizards to survive supernatural combat is gonna have a drastic spike up.

If it weren't for the fact he can't teach non-humans, you bet your ass Mab and Odin would be all over him. They still might; it's one thing to poke Molly for secrets when she has the capacity to ruin you, but Dresden is a whole different kettle of fish. Then again, the White Council is gonna be heavily invested in him too for the near-term future. Dresden isn't gonna be teaching baby Wardens for the next few years, he's gonna be teaching everybody.

(And this is 'just' from the autosuccesses he gets from Essence. Terrestrial Martial Arts can help a Wizard's defence like nothing else, considering those Martial Artists were hunting Solars in Wyld Hunts, and Exalted Sorcery is gonna blow some minds.)
 
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TheGrape said:
When you think about it, Dresden is now probably close to if not already at Morgan/Senior Council levels of combat prowess.

A wizard's greatest weakness is their fragility, but their greatest strength is the ability to tailor their approach to their opponent, given sufficient time. Which nobody ever gives wizards during combat, because the only thing worse than a healer is the dude powering up a Spirit Bomb aimed at your elemental weakness.

Now though? Dresden can actually use Thaumaturgy with combat-relevant speed, while before being able to do so marked you as a true Master of Magic, with peak human skill and centuries of experience.

And Dresden can teach this shit ro everyone. Putting aside how strong the Merlin's gonna be if he survives (remember, he's a Master of Warding, shit that usually takes time, and he was already strong enough to hold off armies in the Nevernever with a quickly-drawn Ward), the base ability of wizards to survive supernatural combat is gonna have a drastic spike up.

If it weren't for the fact he can't teach non-humans, you bet your ass Mab and Odin would be all over him. They still might; it's one thing to poke Molly for secrets when she has the capacity to ruin you, but Dresden is a whole different kettle of fish. Then again, the White Council is gonna be heavily invested in him too for the near-term future. Dresden isn't gonna be teaching baby Wardens for the next few years, he's gonna be teaching everybody.

(And this is 'just' from the autosuccesses he gets from Essence. Terrestrial Martial Arts can help a Wizard's defence like nothing else, considering those Martial Artists were hunting Solars in Wyld Hunts, and Exalted Sorcery is gonna blow some minds.)
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bruh harry only has so much exp pick a niche!
 
TheGrape said:
He just needs to teach other wizards how to Awaken Essence. They can then branch off to TMA or Sorcery or whatnot. Right now he's the bottleneck, but hopefully those he teaches can share the love and start exponential growth until all wizards can wield Essence.
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Okay thats fair I thought you were saying harry personally invest in said martial arts, sorcery, and so on. I mean ujus already said why sorcery is bad from a exp stance since individual spells can cost a bunch of his exp for not much gain. But if its others thats fair.
 
DragonParadox said:
He did not have an avatar rating in canon, Dresdenverse mages do not have that as a common ability, some of them may learn how to store power. Sorcerers find it easier to do it. This is for reasons that would be somewhat spoiler-y to explain.
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Thats for you to rule in this quest.

In canon, Dark Harry was a thing for Harry, and Molly had the command crew of the starship Enterprise.
Dark Harry in particular fits most of the classic parameters of an Avatar.
But that kind of thing is not a focus of the Dresdenverse, so we dont know; a sample size of two is not conclusive.


As for storing energy, I dont agree.
It was a canon plot point in Small Favor that all wizards can store varying amounts of magic energy in their body, depending on their age, physical condition et cetera. From Harry to the much smaller Ivy. That was the point of the Shedd Aquarium incident.

And it was one of the later books, either Skin Game or Peace Talks/Battle Ground, where Harry demonstrated that wizards do use their staffs to create wells of additional magic energy they can draw on for casting.

EDIT
Note that usually you just cast from magic around you, whether ambient or *very carefully* from ley lines.
But not always.
 
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TheGrape said:
If it weren't for the fact he can't teach non-humans, you bet your ass Mab and Odin would be all over him. They still might; it's one thing to poke Molly for secrets when she has the capacity to ruin you, but Dresden is a whole different kettle of fish. Then again, the White Council is gonna be heavily invested in him too for the near-term future. Dresden isn't gonna be teaching baby Wardens for the next few years, he's gonna be teaching everybody.
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Doesn't Harry still owe Mab a favor? And wizards can become fae through mantles. So, get him to teach a wizard who is already on the hook to getting a fae mantle, then get said wizard to teach other fae.

Essence is such a gamechanger and paradigm shifter that everyone is going to be after it.
 
DragonParadox said:
He must weave his mote pool though extended Arete roll at Base DC 7, each roll requiring an hour; 1 Success = 1 Mote. A Botch renders him unable to acess Essence until the next Sunrise or Sunset
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So, two questions:
1) Can Harry attune things now with his essence now, removing the limit of "only one splendor attuned at a time" that non-exalts labor under?
2) Can we make a splendor to ensure success on this roll? Invincible Assertion says "Attribute + Ability" but this seems like something that would fit well for a splendor.
 
[X] Sophia can heal him, you still need to find the Merlin

So, if Harry can trach the process, and/or it can be reverse engineered by studying him, we are definitely hiring him, and making the process a part of school curriculum. Everyone should get their essence awakened in our Courts. It's too big of a strategic advantage not to do this.

Also, regarding magic - another additive boost would be to spend time teaching Harry Primordial with the help of SCCP. He's not a baby, so it won't become his native language, but it would most likely still help. And DC adjustment coupled with free successes? I am fairly sure that Harry has non-zero chance to break 10 successes on magic with sufficient prep. And 10+ successes is wild, totally beyond mortal ken result.
 
Going to Sanctuary would probably dispell Shintai since it was said that it takes minutes for Molly to get there and we're already stretching it as is. Also it would cost a mote bringing us down to 5.

Harry becoming the Warden of Demonreach and becoming Awakened the very next Arc, along with his relation to the political figure Molly means the White Council are going to treat him very differently after this.

Especially if the Merlin failed his rolls and got fucked over by the Labyrinth.

[X] Sophia can heal him, you still need to find the Merlin
 
Yog said:
[X] Sophia can heal him, you still need to find the Merlin

So, if Harry can trach the process, and/or it can be reverse engineered by studying him, we are definitely hiring him, and making the process a part of school curriculum. Everyone should get their essence awakened in our Courts. It's too big of a strategic advantage not to do this.

Also, regarding magic - another additive boost would be to spend time teaching Harry Primordial with the help of SCCP. He's not a baby, so it won't become his native language, but it would most likely still help. And DC adjustment coupled with free successes? I am fairly sure that Harry has non-zero chance to break 10 successes on magic with sufficient prep. And 10+ successes is wild, totally beyond mortal ken result.
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aren't essence awakening charms already a thing yog?
 
firefrog600 said:
aren't essence awakening charms already a thing yog?
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I mean, they are, but they're inevitably influenced by the one who does the Awakening.

This is a pure Wizard aspected Enlightenment Method, it's priceless because it comes with no inherent obligation or attunement to the one who does the awakening for you.

Like, unironically, this is quite possibly the single greatest advance the White Council has had in hundreds of years, even Dresden could potentially get a spot on the Senior Council off the back of it, that's how big it is. He won't, because he's shit at politics and he's best on the ground level, but getting Warden Commander level respect is entirely in the cards.
 
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Alectai said:
I mean, they are, but they're inevitably influenced by the one who does the Awakening.

This is a pure Wizard aspected Enlightenment Method, it's priceless because it comes with no inherent obligation or attunement to the one who does the awakening for you.

Like, unironically, this is quite possibly the single greatest advance the White Council has had in hundreds of years, even Dresden could potentially get a spot on the Senior Council off the back of it, that's how big it is. He won't, because he's shit at politics and he's best on the ground level, but getting Warden Commander level respect is entirely in the cards.
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fairly sure that those downsides aren't that huge also fairly sure teaching would take months upon months if not over a year and its not in mass like with charms.
 
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