Good night guys, see you tomorrow as Harry Dresden beholds things man was not meant to see.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Wow, wow, wow, slow down. This was a major crisis, of that there's no dispute.
But calling this the Council's greatest hour of need seems to be overselling it a little.
Especially since its based on less than six months knowledge of things.
If anyone else is helping, or has contingency plans in place, good chance we dont have the PoV to know about it.
Hell, I dont know if the Council would know about it as a corporate entity; a lot of the major players tend to move in silence, and there are no newspapers covering the supernatural.
For example, noone who wasnt in the room will ever know about Lily's phone call.
And I dont know if the White Council even know about Odin's little weeding operation in Boston last year.
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Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
Okay, let's say there's an alternate universe where we voted to let them figure it out themselves. What do you think the outcome would be? Personally, I think most of the council would be dead. Their base destroyed. Merlin dead or corrupted. And the rest would probably be captured by the Black Council. It's a total wipe. Your opinion may differ, of course. But it's at least several times worse than losing Simon Petrovich.
- Location
- washington
I mean I don't think most of the council would be dead I think most of the senior council but not the council itself. I mean afterall many of them want to use the council.
Indeed. For all that this was a reaction to us noticing them, this likely is the greatest crisis the council faced in the last... Long time. From greatest to smallest, the outcome, assuming Molly magically disappears immediately after triggering this series of events, would be:
1) Global magical pandemic targeting wizardkind. Possibly global zombie virus pandemic or a birth of a new demonic god. The plague they brewed up in Australia was near ready to release, from what I recall.
2) Major Masquerade breach on Outsider terms, likely leading to cascading global masquerade failure and new inquisition / witch hunts being organized due to Nemesis activity. They were aiming to blow up the headquarters in a way that led to Masquerade breach, after all, and Nemesis is aiming to take it down right now. The destruction of their headquarters itself would be a mass casualty event by itself, and possibly count as a mass sacrifice. There's half a million people in Edinburgh. And I am fairly sure you can do a lot with a sacrifice of >100k people, at least a hundred of whom are wizard-grade talents.
3) Council's vaults and reliquaries being ransacked by Thorned Namshiel. More of a long term issue, but a big one, as at least some of their possessions seem to be relics of Saints, and I am fairly sure a Fallen can do a lot by desecrating those.
4) Large parts of the council, including senior council (Ancient Mai, Merlin, Luccio) dead or subverted. Morgan, the council's near-greatest hitter, also dead or turned into a rhampire, along with his team.
5) Ascension of a new rhampiric god, and a death of an existing god deeply connected to a large area of land. Fairly sure that's bad.
Really, for all that this is improvisation and a panicked reaction, this demonstrates that Hollow Man and his True Magi really were unhealthily overcautious. Because we aren't stopping them one step from succeeding. They were way past the point where they could have won.
Exactly it feels like they did have an overwhelming advantage but they didn't have a unified vision for what a victory would look like. Launching a rebellion/war with that problem seems like a good way to instantly lose a lot of those advantages. Some of the warlocks seem to be under the impression that it wasn't a war to end reality it was to Dethrone or take the white Council.
If that is a majority held thought within the warlocks of his faction then all launching would have done even in success if they win they will attempt to kill any warlock that is loyal to the outside in an immediate Purge the enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy not my friend. Though that might just be my reading of the situation.
So while it might have been a overmatch from both an intelligence and actual assets ready to be deployed front if the warlocks of the faction aren't unified then it's an immediate Civil War where either the remnants of the white Council can draw back in an attempt to reform or it's a complete wipe the white council is replaced with the black Council and the black Council kills any Outsider aligned warlock because they want to actually enjoy the power they just gained rather than play around with Malevolent Spirits that want to kill reality.
Edit: Demons to Malevolent Spirits
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- Location
- washington
I mean I wouldn't say they'd win in a normal fight its their anonymity which gave them an overwhelming advantage and sufficient strength to leverage it. But you have a big point even in canon we're pretty sure black council has varying motives and are allies of convenience in many cases even if we're not sure whose in it.
Oh and demons don't wanna end reality I know semantics but we need to get our terminology right here.
Exactly the anonymity and the prepared assets ready to deploy are all spent in what is possibly a futile move if they don't have a unified vision of what victory looks like. If the true wizard faction of this black Council is of the opinion that they want to rule reality and not kill it then any Outsider aligned faction of the black council is dead the second they win their war with the white Council.
As the name implies they are the opposite of white Council there's no hiding behind civilians or hiding behind being mostly human like the white vampires so if they win and they feel like they need to chase down and kill the outsider faction they can just bomb cities and just unleash Hellfire and necromantic constructs to chase them down and kill them.
If the hollow man was aware that he does not have like a super-majority of the true Magi on his side then his faction would be boned and I can't imagine his Masters are particularly merciful in any sense.
True enough. Fixed. I'm really used to describing demons as malevolent Spirit entities that consume souls and want to do bad things but The Outsiders are all of those things but also want to kill reality and demons don't want to do that here.
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Ironically, our actions likely helped them, shifting their position from "we don't want to risk the confrontation" and "we need to get all cards in a row, and work out internal dissent" to "we need to destroywhite council right now, and work out everything else later".
Also, note, I am still waiting to see what the True Magi in Africa are doing. We know that there was st least one solar, one abyssal, and up to three infernals running around there no more than ten thousand years in the past. I worry about what sealed evil our opposition can unleash if they no longer worry about consequences. I do not feel prepared to fight Deathlord Gilgamesh riding a necrotech Sphinx warstrider. We'll probably have to do a follow up next turn.
That one's going to be a thing almost assuredly. The ones that are aligned with the hollow man and the outside are probably going to retreat to him because they have the information and know they are caught the ones that are just on the black Council that are just warlocks are probably going to try to pull a Johann of Cleaves and go to ground.
If they know anything is going on at all because Shaw didn't know but that was only a couple minutes in but if they're not in a position to retrieve or receive information then maybe they don't know yet either though it has been a couple hours.
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Here's their initial disposition:
At least 1 conspirator in Africa was aware we noticed them. There's also Asian True Magi (and Asia is where stuff like Black Vault might be).
- Location
- washington
Actually thinking about it we don't know if demons can actually eat souls in canon they certainly bargain in them though. But, while theres definitely stuff that may eat souls we've never been given a concrete example in dresden files of a soul being consumed or destroyed. Well canonically that is we sure as hell know they can here. Varying vampires could eat the souls or destroy them, demons can definitely bargain in them and do stuff with them, outsiders I mean I assume they can more than anyone destroy a soul but its just as likely the soul moves on when they infect, eat, and so on a soul.
Interlude being written.
Arc 14 Interlude 11: The Magician and the Wizard
The Magician and the Wizard
18th of February 2007 A.D.
There was a line on the ground, sharp as the blade of a knife between the deep black of Molly's passage and the limestone of the catacombs. All I had to to was step over it and the world twisted and unfolded like origami paper, like light cut into pieces, colors without names. I landed elsewhere, not Chicago and not the Nevernever...
I remembered this place, oh not in detail, but the peeling wallpaper, the faint smell of mildew, the sound of the pipes clattering though too thin-walls, it was one of the dozens of bargain bin hostels and roadside motels I'd lived in with my father. And there he was, tall and lanky, I'd gotten that from him, though his heir was darker than mine and his eyes a lighter blue. They were red those eyes of his as he sat on the edge of the bed, the plastic covering creaking under him. Hard night, I wondered and then with crushing speed my mind went to the day I'd found him dead. Had it been this room or one like it?
It was hard to remember anything beside his face, the smile on his face unlike anything I'd ever seen.
"Harry, Harry, I'm going out," he called out and for a moment I thought he was talking to me, but then I heard the creak of small feet on the worn carpet. I turned around and saw myself smiling up at him with that confidence that only little kids have, when their parents are the biggest and strongest thing in the world.
"OK Dad, I'll sit quiet and not answer the door..." Huh, I sounded like I had a cold, nothing bad, just the sniffles, though I was absurdly glad not to have substance to be sneezed on.
My father walked out, grabbing his hat along the way, not the magician's hat of course, the plain grey hat with a narrow brim I remember clutching to my chest as they took me away. I'd managed to hang on to that hat through two foster homes. Was it real, or at least was it how I remembered it or some distortion that was going to twist around and attack attack me at any moment. Nothing happened, I was just left in the room in the company of my younger self and a pack of battered playing cards he was attempting to replicate some trick he'd seen on stage.
Of course, not much of a maze if you don't follow along, I realized and cautiously set off after my father.
It was dark out but the streets were well lit, we must have been in a small town from the shape of the neighborhood , but one pretty close to a city from the lights in the distance, spilling out to cover the stars in a haze of orange.
An old man sat on a bench, just as I remembered him, just as I had seen him moments ago, Ebeneezer McCoy sat stiff as a board on a park bench in a nameless city waiting for my father like he was waiting for the hangman. "Well?"
"Harry has a cold, I told you on the phone it was nothing serious."
"That you can tell," thick eyebrows meet in a worried frown. "If I told you all the things that can look like a cold it would turn your hair whiter than mine."
My father sighed like they had this conversation before, like they knew each other.
Ebeneezer had been my mother's. Margret LaFey's, teacher, that was part of the reason why he'd taken me on when he did, but I always thought my father didn't know anything about wizards and their magic, just stagecraft.
"You know he doesn't' have to be in danger to meet his grandfather."
What? My brain felt like someone had dipped it in a jar of molasses. This has to be the maze fucking with my head, twisting things around to twist me.
"No he doesn't have to be because meeting his grandfather will put him in danger," Ebeneezer just kept on talking. "I'm being watched, always."
In spite of myself I kept watching, kept listening, trying to make sense of what they were saying, it's what wizards and detectives have in common. I came to realize that I'd been right before, my dad never knew about magic, but he did think Mom was in some shady stuff, and he thought grandf... Ebenezer —no way to know if it's true or not— was being paranoid. Knowing what I knew now I wasn't sure he was. Sure he hadn't been on the Senior Council back then, but a few years later he'd been senior enough to save my neck with the Doom.
"It's best if Harry doesn't get involved with the family..."
"You say that and then you keep lurking!" I don't remember ever having heard Malcolm Dresden raise his voice before. "Don't think I didn't notice: the empty seats paid for in Seattle, in Renton... If I could go back I'd find a dozen more. Sometimes he'll say there are people following us. That's you isn't it?"
"I hope to God it's just me," the words were faint and snatched up by the wind-that flowed-with- nameless-colors. The Labyrianth was trying to pull me elsewhere, but the current wasn't so strong that I couldn't stay here. Should I stay? Would I see what happened? How he died... could I trust it?
What does Harry do?
[] Try to remain with Malcolm and his younger self (Willpower Roll 8 Dice DC 7)
[] Follow the flow of the Labyrinth where it leads him
[] Try to speak to the people outside (Arete+
OOC: I thought about just continuing to write, but that would have lead to an enormous interlude that might not even have been done today.
- Location
- washington
So probably keep in mind what Molly and Lydia told harry?
Do keep in mind that a failed communication roll will still have him talk to... someone.
- Location
- washington
I'm sure their friendly.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[x] Follow the flow of the Labyrinth where it leads him
An alternate universe where we told them that the Peabody conspiracy existed and left them to handle it?
Good chance they lose Aleron LaFortier as well as Luccio. Both serious blows.
But they dont lose their HQ.
I think its worth keeping in mind that through the ending of the 19th century through the first half of the 20th century, the White Council and all its allies fought an existential conflict with the Kemmler Alliance, starting with a shadow conflict and evolving into large-scale open war.
Necromancers, warlocks, vampires, demons and demigods, all led by an ascendant necromancer that straight up refused to die despite being killed multiple times. Even after WW1 ended, the war with the Kemmlerites raged for decades, through WW2 and didnt really end until they killed Kemmler for the last time in 1962.
The Peabody/Hollow Man conspiracy is an insidious threat, but it has never had the time to become the threat to the Council, or frankly the world, that they faced back when Kemmler was the Warden of Demonreach and could conceivably parole some of the inmates as weapons. Or when he had gods and the progeny of gods in his retinue.
=====
Not really.
Harry learned about the Blackstaff back in Blood Rites, when Kincaid and Ebenezar met each other circa 2004.
He's never realized that there is a literal Black Staff, or seen it at this point in time, but he knows the position exists, why it exists, and that McCoy currently holds it.
He doesnt know McCoy is his grandfather, but thats about the only family secret you could spring on him right now.
That I know of, anyway.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
Do you think they could have saved Edinburgh? I don't think so. I think they would have lost it. Arthur Langley may have been lost, we'll see soon. Ancient May may have died in battle too... I think you're underestimating the scale of this attack. Kemler's failure to achieve the same is not proof that the threat is less serious. It's proof of how different it is. An external threat versus an internal one. Even the strongest fortresses fall like a wooden fence if there are traitors within to open the gates.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Oh right. I have no idea what this is about then. All I can think of is more precise details on Starborn stuff.
In that case. I'll go with this. I want Dresden family lore and it may be related to the Starborn.
[X] Try to remain with Malcolm and his younger self (Willpower Roll 8 Dice DC 7)
I am fairly sure that we lack critical information about said conflict, starting with "was Kemmler even trying to fight White Council beyond making them stop fighting him?". I am fairly sure that extermination or takeover of White Council was never stated to be Kemmler's goal.
[X] Follow the flow of the Labyrinth where it leads him
God, I would love to stay and get more lore about his father what happened but on some level Harry is distinctly aware that's not what he's here for and does not trust anything he's seeing which is already a bad place to start with gathering information.
God, I would love to stay and get more lore about his father what happened but on some level Harry is distinctly aware that's not what he's here for and does not trust anything he's seeing which is already a bad place to start with gathering information.
Better to follow the Maze and get what he came here for then ask the relevant people later now that the questions have been posed to him.