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Try to survive the Winter: A planquest in Fantasy Colonial America

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[X] Try to survive the Winter: A planquest in Fantasy Colonial America
[X] 10 thousand years of tyranny : A 40k Planetary Governor Quest (CK3)
[X] Against the Ubermensch : A WW2 Superheroes program quest
Honestly, I think the winter quest deserves the most attention as the best of the bunch, but I'm also a sucker for superheroes and fixing the present to save the future.
 
[x] Try to survive the Winter: A planquest in Fantasy Colonial America
[x] Reach the Stars, Explore the Void REBOOT : A Stellaris-inspired quest of research and exploration
[x] The land shape the Hero, The Hero shape the land
 
[X] Tower of Babel: A Bronze Age Space Civ Quest

Seems a little unfair to have this poll in a single quest thread. Maybe it should have been an online poll that you posted in your quest threads, so there's less selection bias. You didn't even advertise this vote in Tower of Babel and it had omakes posted in it just yesterday.
 
Fission Battery said:
[X] Tower of Babel: A Bronze Age Space Civ Quest

Seems a little unfair to have this poll in a single quest thread. Maybe it should have been an online poll that you posted in your quest threads, so there's less selection bias. You didn't even advertise this vote in Tower of Babel and it had omakes posted in it just yesterday.
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A fair point, I will advertise the vote on my others quests.
I didn't think too much about this, since I won't be free to write for a few weeks.
 
To be fair, that would kinda become a mess pretty quickly in seeing what's most popular. If i vote that i like Tower of Babel in every quest,.does that count as 1 vote or 4? that's gonna become so unorganzied so quickly.

Simple enough if it's just couple of voters, but there is a decent spread across all of them. I'd might go instead "Hey, doing a quest vote in "Winter planquest" for future quests, if you haven't voted there". So ir easier to keep track off. Or something along those lines to keep them in the same place. Since all the votes would be collected in one place.
 
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Sa'kage said:
To be fair, that would kinda become a mess pretty quickly in seeing what's most popular. If i vote that i like Tower of Babel in every quest,.does that count as 1 vote or 4? that's gonna become so unorganzied so quickly.

Simple enough if it's just couple of voters, but there is a decent spread across all of them. I'd might go instead "Hey, doing a quest vote in "Winter planquest" for future quests, if you haven't voted there". So ir easier to keep track off. Or something along those lines to keep them in the same place. Since all the votes would be collected in one place.
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Yes, this is what I am going to do.
 
Hmm. If WinterQuest is going to be altered from its current structure, I wonder in what way. Thinking on the aspects of this Quest and how well they work in the PlanQuest format:

Differences from 'conventional' PlanQuests
And now, thinking about ways that this differs from most PlanQuests:

The first and most obvious way is a lack of a generic "resources". Most PlanQuests this is spent on all the different projects and helps represent their overall expense, logistical strain, and technical expertise required. That's not really a thing in this PlanQuest. And I kinda like it that way tbh. There wasn't a generic "money" or "resources" in the original CYOA either. The closest equivalent was, well, workforce. And well, I feel that's one of the bigger appeals of this relative to other PlanQuest. A scenario where workforce/dice are the most basic unit of PlanQuest expenditure rather than resources that are spent to use those dice.

And then there's a bunch of other factors that are different as well.

Division of Dice
The CYOA it was inspired by had the assigning of manpower (along with magical automated units and occult power) to different tasks over the course of Spring, Summer, and Fall. The way that got translated here was that different types of workforce or specialists became "dice" of different types, some of which could only be used for certain actions due to either workforce specialty or cultural institutions and knowledge. Additionally, there are often narrative reasons to avoid using certain types of dice on certain projects, or to encourage the use of specific kinds of dice on others (for example, Silent Blades being good at killing and having no ability to think independently, or wanting to use Unhardened Colonist dice alongside Native and Unchained dice to help encourage integration.) This sort of division of labor is central to the Quest's overall style and aesthetic and so should be preserved.

A part of this aesthetics has been a number of actions picking up subtitles that add aspects to the action that certain specialties can interact with. For example, [Death] to represent interactions related to death and the dead, which is a specialty of the Mourners (in fact, Mourners can only do actions relating to Death/the Dead or Knowledge Actions in their current state.)

Additionally, there are kinds of dice we haven't yet acquired in the game thus far. "Occult Dice" were an option for us to begin with if we'd gone with The Dark Arts for why we survived. Plus "Might", which doesn't seem to be dice but is definitely some kind of notable factor, since we could have gotten it alongside Occult Dice.

Risks
Related to the nature of dice has been the aspect of Risk. Due to the dangerous circumstances Union is in and the fact that our dice represent actual people (I think I calculated at the start that each Workforce die represented roughly 50 working-age adults, or an equivalent amount of effective labor), some assignments carry the risk of the Dice being damaged (either temporarily or permanently), temporarily disabled, or even lost outright.

The PlanQuest format allowed for an easy way to frame this risk: Each die used generates a roll to determine how much progress is made, and if a die roll goes poorly enough on a Risky/Dangerous project, then that die, depending on the level of danger and how low the roll was, gets injured/killed, barring use of omakes to preserve them.

Preparations for Winter
The central loop of the Quest. Spring, Summer, and Autumn are our usual turns, but ultimately every action we do is part of a commitment to preparations for the next Winter. Basically every action we have available does something to prepare for Winter. Whether it's a direct supplying of countermeasures for hunger, cold, disease, or enemy attack, or some more indirect benefit.

And then in Winter, we get to assign the dice that are used to screw us over, and we try to make sure that Union is hit with threats that it can handle - or at least things that it can survive in the worst case scenario that our defenses are overcome.

This part is one of the biggest outright different mechanics, the control of an enemy and how it actively screws with us, and I really enjoy it. I don't think any changes in particular need to be made here. Or at least, if there are, they'd be minor alterations to factors rather than a radical redesign.

Possible Alterations
Honestly, I'm not sure if the PlanQuest format is completely incompatible with the Quest. After all, it's kept our interest for the past 12 turns pretty effectively. Still, if we're in a stage where there's considerations on what changes need to be made, I might as well come out with a couple of thoughts:

-One thing that's struck me as odd is how the Summer turn we basically get a break from needing to apply manpower to farming. Now, to be fair, my headcanon is that our Workforce dice are less what those 50 people per die do all month and more "what this part of the workforce does in the time that they are tasked with work-gang duties to the community rather than their own time." So the 3 dice in the Spring and Autumn aren't all the farmers, but in fact surplus labor being assigned by the Council. Even so, the months between planting and harvest weren't exactly idle as I understand it. It's still a constant work to make sure the farm is properly weeded, keep away pests, water the crops, etc.
--Perhaps it should be a thing where Farming requires the dice for all 3 non-Winter seasons. That might also line up better with its enormous gains. Farming provides an absolute ton of food, especially when we've been stacking bonuses to the Fields, but it's a big and constant manpower investment.

-I feel like overall the PlanQuest format, while not perfect, works pretty well at least narratively. Dice are population workforce or specialists in their field. And the overall style of a PlanQuest has encouraged the sort of time pressure that is good for a PlanQuest: Every 3 turns is spent hoping we've done enough for the upcoming Winter turn of siege. Sometimes I wonder if maybe Specialist Dice should be a bit more distinct in capabilities, but at the same time, they're distinct in their own manner mechanically in that it's like, a dozen or so at most people, or sometimes just one person, being able to do the work of 50 unskilled hands in their specialty. Plus, there often seem to be significant narrative effects as well.

-Perhaps we could do with a summary of what you consider to be the big problems with Try to Survive the Winter in a PlanQuest format? That plus a look at the CYOA might help figure out what exactly are the issues that need addressing.
 
Chimeraguard said:
Hmm. If WinterQuest is going to be altered from its current structure, I wonder in what way. Thinking on the aspects of this Quest and how well they work in the PlanQuest format:

Differences from 'conventional' PlanQuests
And now, thinking about ways that this differs from most PlanQuests:

The first and most obvious way is a lack of a generic "resources". Most PlanQuests this is spent on all the different projects and helps represent their overall expense, logistical strain, and technical expertise required. That's not really a thing in this PlanQuest. And I kinda like it that way tbh. There wasn't a generic "money" or "resources" in the original CYOA either. The closest equivalent was, well, workforce. And well, I feel that's one of the bigger appeals of this relative to other PlanQuest. A scenario where workforce/dice are the most basic unit of PlanQuest expenditure rather than resources that are spent to use those dice.

And then there's a bunch of other factors that are different as well.

Division of Dice
The CYOA it was inspired by had the assigning of manpower (along with magical automated units and occult power) to different tasks over the course of Spring, Summer, and Fall. The way that got translated here was that different types of workforce or specialists became "dice" of different types, some of which could only be used for certain actions due to either workforce specialty or cultural institutions and knowledge. Additionally, there are often narrative reasons to avoid using certain types of dice on certain projects, or to encourage the use of specific kinds of dice on others (for example, Silent Blades being good at killing and having no ability to think independently, or wanting to use Unhardened Colonist dice alongside Native and Unchained dice to help encourage integration.) This sort of division of labor is central to the Quest's overall style and aesthetic and so should be preserved.

A part of this aesthetics has been a number of actions picking up subtitles that add aspects to the action that certain specialties can interact with. For example, [Death] to represent interactions related to death and the dead, which is a specialty of the Mourners (in fact, Mourners can only do actions relating to Death/the Dead or Knowledge Actions in their current state.)

Additionally, there are kinds of dice we haven't yet acquired in the game thus far. "Occult Dice" were an option for us to begin with if we'd gone with The Dark Arts for why we survived. Plus "Might", which doesn't seem to be dice but is definitely some kind of notable factor, since we could have gotten it alongside Occult Dice.

Risks
Related to the nature of dice has been the aspect of Risk. Due to the dangerous circumstances Union is in and the fact that our dice represent actual people (I think I calculated at the start that each Workforce die represented roughly 50 working-age adults, or an equivalent amount of effective labor), some assignments carry the risk of the Dice being damaged (either temporarily or permanently), temporarily disabled, or even lost outright.

The PlanQuest format allowed for an easy way to frame this risk: Each die used generates a roll to determine how much progress is made, and if a die roll goes poorly enough on a Risky/Dangerous project, then that die, depending on the level of danger and how low the roll was, gets injured/killed, barring use of omakes to preserve them.

Preparations for Winter
The central loop of the Quest. Spring, Summer, and Autumn are our usual turns, but ultimately every action we do is part of a commitment to preparations for the next Winter. Basically every action we have available does something to prepare for Winter. Whether it's a direct supplying of countermeasures for hunger, cold, disease, or enemy attack, or some more indirect benefit.

And then in Winter, we get to assign the dice that are used to screw us over, and we try to make sure that Union is hit with threats that it can handle - or at least things that it can survive in the worst case scenario that our defenses are overcome.

This part is one of the biggest outright different mechanics, the control of an enemy and how it actively screws with us, and I really enjoy it. I don't think any changes in particular need to be made here. Or at least, if there are, they'd be minor alterations to factors rather than a radical redesign.

Possible Alterations
Honestly, I'm not sure if the PlanQuest format is completely incompatible with the Quest. After all, it's kept our interest for the past 12 turns pretty effectively. Still, if we're in a stage where there's considerations on what changes need to be made, I might as well come out with a couple of thoughts:

-One thing that's struck me as odd is how the Summer turn we basically get a break from needing to apply manpower to farming. Now, to be fair, my headcanon is that our Workforce dice are less what those 50 people per die do all month and more "what this part of the workforce does in the time that they are tasked with work-gang duties to the community rather than their own time." So the 3 dice in the Spring and Autumn aren't all the farmers, but in fact surplus labor being assigned by the Council. Even so, the months between planting and harvest weren't exactly idle as I understand it. It's still a constant work to make sure the farm is properly weeded, keep away pests, water the crops, etc.
--Perhaps it should be a thing where Farming requires the dice for all 3 non-Winter seasons. That might also line up better with its enormous gains. Farming provides an absolute ton of food, especially when we've been stacking bonuses to the Fields, but it's a big and constant manpower investment.

-I feel like overall the PlanQuest format, while not perfect, works pretty well at least narratively. Dice are population workforce or specialists in their field. And the overall style of a PlanQuest has encouraged the sort of time pressure that is good for a PlanQuest: Every 3 turns is spent hoping we've done enough for the upcoming Winter turn of siege. Sometimes I wonder if maybe Specialist Dice should be a bit more distinct in capabilities, but at the same time, they're distinct in their own manner mechanically in that it's like, a dozen or so at most people, or sometimes just one person, being able to do the work of 50 unskilled hands in their specialty. Plus, there often seem to be significant narrative effects as well.

-Perhaps we could do with a summary of what you consider to be the big problems with Try to Survive the Winter in a PlanQuest format? That plus a look at the CYOA might help figure out what exactly are the issues that need addressing.
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Right now, I would say my focus would be on :
- Reducing the bloat of the quest, to make it more easy to participate in it and spare more time for pure writing.
- Better differenciate beetween workforce and specialists
- Better simulate the changes and politics of Union
- And prepare for when Union may reach a larger scale and turn into a regional power.
 
Chimeraguard said:
Even so, the months between planting and harvest weren't exactly idle as I understand it. It's still a constant work to make sure the farm is properly weeded, keep away pests, water the crops, etc.
--Perhaps it should be a thing where Farming requires the dice for all 3 non-Winter seasons. That might also line up better with its enormous gains. Farming provides an absolute ton of food, especially when we've been stacking bonuses to the Fields, but it's a big and constant manpower investment.
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TBH from a real-life agricultural standpoint until the months between planting and harvest were pretty idle (at least in the fields, there were plenty of jobs attending cattle, repairing things, harvesting wood, etc), they had to do some of that stuff but it was mostly reactive and it didn't took that much time... Remember that in the Middle and Modern Ages, a peasant worked only 150-200 days per year...

I mean if we were growing some special crop with extremely specific requirements I may understand it, but wheat and the three sisters are basically "fire and forget" crops

Chimeraguard said:
--Perhaps it should be a thing where Farming requires the dice for all 3 non-Winter seasons. That might also line up better with its enormous gains. Farming provides an absolute ton of food, especially when we've been stacking bonuses to the Fields, but it's a big and constant manpower investment.
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Dude the gains from farming came from the only good roll in the first posts, let us have that...
 
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