Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Ok, @DragonParadox I have tons of questions that influence the decision:
1) Would this be permanent, or could it be closed after the god is healed? If the latter, how long until the god will be healed, can we make an estimation? As I understood the plan, it was for the god to pass through the Wheel. I presume this takes some time. A year and a day? One Lunar month? Until the next dawn? Until we hit E5? Something in-between?
2) How does our influence transfer through the gate? Does the Law of the Wheel extend through it? Does Lord of the Land? Is it a sharp divide?
3) Since the connection is through the god, how much power / knowledge / influence over the passageway do they get? Essentially, does this quote apply here: "Yog-Sothoth Mallko knows the gate. Yog-Sothoth Mallko is the gate. Yog-Sothoth Mallko is the key and guardian of the gate. "?
I am thinking that if this not permanent, we could benefit from this. Yes, establish secure perimeter, let in no one, add Splendor safeguards, etc. But get a powerful ally. Make this god a splendor to axiomatically prevent possession (it's only a 1 dot splendor), and this protects the gate at least, I think.
1) Would this be permanent, or could it be closed after the god is healed? If the latter, how long until the god will be healed, can we make an estimation? As I understood the plan, it was for the god to pass through the Wheel. I presume this takes some time. A year and a day? One Lunar month? Until the next dawn? Until we hit E5? Something in-between?
2) How does our influence transfer through the gate? Does the Law of the Wheel extend through it? Does Lord of the Land? Is it a sharp divide?
3) Since the connection is through the god, how much power / knowledge / influence over the passageway do they get? Essentially, does this quote apply here: "
I am thinking that if this not permanent, we could benefit from this. Yes, establish secure perimeter, let in no one, add Splendor safeguards, etc. But get a powerful ally. Make this god a splendor to axiomatically prevent possession (it's only a 1 dot splendor), and this protects the gate at least, I think.
- Location
- Estonia
Actually, I don't want to assume, so I'm just going to ask for sure @DragonParadox can you reveal, if this is the Stargate situation, where to opening on the Sanctuary side is a specific location that could be fortified, not something that moves around randomly?
I acknowledge that, I was just refuting the idea that we would need to worry about spies as "common" as some shapeshifting infiltrators or "normal" possessive spirits.
The point is, Nemesis is always a threat anyway. There are things and people we care about on this plane and I'm honestly surprise it hasn't tried to infect all of them it can. Or just posessed the leaders of nuclear countries and started a nuclear war on Earth.
I acknowledge that, I was just refuting the idea that we would need to worry about spies as "common" as some shapeshifting infiltrators or "normal" possessive spirits.
The point is, Nemesis is always a threat anyway. There are things and people we care about on this plane and I'm honestly surprise it hasn't tried to infect all of them it can. Or just posessed the leaders of nuclear countries and started a nuclear war on Earth.
Last edited:
Yeah his effect on the land is symmetrical.
- It would take figuring out how to untangle it, just healing him would not fix it
- It is s sharp divide, think star gate. There are ways to extend it with other charms and sacrifices but you do not get them automatically
- Yep, he would be the passage. Keep in mind though the Red Court has kept this poor fellow prisoner a long time, they know him all foo well
Shintai does not extend that aspect of your authority, too transient
The former, it would be fixed in place.
Last edited:
The second option literally says find a way to sever it later. I literally meant that we have a ancient sorcery spell that has to do with opening portals to other Realms that we can study further to sever this portal to our Realm. Even if that doesn't close the portal and makes it lead somewhere else.
One that is not how the crown works we can't use the crown on the five fold Court of Fate itself we can use them on nemesis to find all of his hosts. Even if they are from the five-fold court of Fate if we could look at a recording of the entire population that left or entered the court and use the video storage Medium as a focus to ask who in this video is nemesis infected null or X, X and X.
This is before we get into the fact that they would need to be an incident that would allow Nemesis to infect someone he can't just appear out of nowhere otherwise the world would have already ended.
This is before we get into the fact that people in our court are either actively sharing their bodies with other entities that would notice if another Spirit suddenly entered their body no matter how stealthy it is or just have magic of their own with which to resist possession and finally can have protection from possession in the form of amulets Enchanted items just fomori gifts, usage of Rage.
This is before we get into the greatest power of all guns around a fixed position are really difficult to attack especially when people on the inside of that fixed position also have magic which means you can't use magic to try and circumvent the benefits of a fixed position.
If your reason to say making a portal is a bad idea is the Ultimate spy would need to break most of the rules somehow appear out of nowhere without any of the people that specifically get carte blanche to cheat when Outsiders do things that are against the rules (Uriel, Angels, God/Gods) intervening then it's not really a bad idea or at very least you should come up with reasons a bad idea that don't involve essentially the counterpart of Uriel showing up.
Edit: Sandra a Mortal patsy got a little bit too free with the mind magic and Uriel put us in position to be one of the exalted. Imagine how much worse would it be if the nemesis right hand of the slowest Terror was the one who cheated in such a flagrant manner.
Last edited:
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X] Regretfully Goodbye, you cannot take the risk
Ok, so this is actually a hard decision.
First, Nemesis - is not an issue, realistically. Why? Because Nemesis doesn't need the gateway to pass into our realm. They need someone infected. And our people are mostly not immune. Any agent we send into the world, any visitor we take in is a possible Nemesis inflitrator. Reversely - it doesn't get to just walk through a gate without a host. So, threat profile for Nemesis doesn't change.
What does change?
We get an ability to move industrial quantities of people and equipment through. On reverse, the enemy gets a hard point to enter through. This runs into stuff Molly should know about, but we do not, so. @DragonParadox what are Molly's thoughts on:
1) What happens if a) a multi-megaton nuclear device is detonated Earthside near the gate? b) a tunguska event happens Earthside near the gate?
2) As far as Molly understands the military capability of her Courts, how hard a chokepoint can they make? If given time to properly fortify, what kind of defenses and defenders can they make, assuming optimal selection of the entryway by Molly? Basically, if Red King personally tries to zergrush us with his retinue, would the courts be able to stop them with military might at the gate?
3) How populated is the area we are in? Basically, if an alien military base materializes here overnight, how big of a masquerade breach we are talking about?
We have responsibility for our citizens, but keeping the courts strictly isolated from Earth is not fulfilling said responsibility long term.
First, Nemesis - is not an issue, realistically. Why? Because Nemesis doesn't need the gateway to pass into our realm. They need someone infected. And our people are mostly not immune. Any agent we send into the world, any visitor we take in is a possible Nemesis inflitrator. Reversely - it doesn't get to just walk through a gate without a host. So, threat profile for Nemesis doesn't change.
What does change?
We get an ability to move industrial quantities of people and equipment through. On reverse, the enemy gets a hard point to enter through. This runs into stuff Molly should know about, but we do not, so. @DragonParadox what are Molly's thoughts on:
1) What happens if a) a multi-megaton nuclear device is detonated Earthside near the gate? b) a tunguska event happens Earthside near the gate?
2) As far as Molly understands the military capability of her Courts, how hard a chokepoint can they make? If given time to properly fortify, what kind of defenses and defenders can they make, assuming optimal selection of the entryway by Molly? Basically, if Red King personally tries to zergrush us with his retinue, would the courts be able to stop them with military might at the gate?
3) How populated is the area we are in? Basically, if an alien military base materializes here overnight, how big of a masquerade breach we are talking about?
We have responsibility for our citizens, but keeping the courts strictly isolated from Earth is not fulfilling said responsibility long term.
[X] You are saving an ancient Peruvian God today and that's final, you'll find some way to guard the gate or sever it later
You are giving us a casus belli? I'm ok with it, already wanted a reason to kill them at the end of the day. I am willing to use a favor from Mab to help fortify too if needed:
[x] You are saving an ancient Peruvian God today and that's final, you'll find some way to guard the gate or sever it later
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
This conversation was already had... Please don't start this again. He has a limited amount of slots and Uriel acts against him. If he had the option of starting nuclear war just by possessing people it already would've happened. Also while Nemesis knows we can detect its presence somehow doesn't mean he'd think that we can find him amongst the Five Court's billions of people.
We can't use the Crown of Eyes on itself or the Exaltation which the Five Court's counts as. If Nemesis gets in we'd straight up never find him unless he screws up to make himself known or we get another foci for him and think to ask.
And how exactly would we study a spell that Molly just instinctively knows how to do? That doesn't make sense. Also no DP just explained it the God would act as a Way we wouldn't get to arbitrarily move it, it'd stay open to this location until we pull him over entirely.
That's not how that works. We can't use the Crown to look at itself. The Five Courts counts as Molly/Exaltion so using a recording to ask about it should not work. We'd need a foci for Nemesis which we are inherently limited and if we don't make the roll he gets to block the Crown.
People will obviously attack through the opening. At least that's a fair assumption to make after what we just did to the Reds. This would give Nemesis opportunities to infiltrate. He's the best at what he does amongst all of the Outsiders and has been compared to Uriel. I would not make the automatic assumption that his presence would be detected when even the Crown can fail at such.
First of all no that isn't at all what I said.
Secondly they only get to
Last edited:
Okay the option that Dragon Paradox themselves gave us says find a way to sever it. I think the spell that calls portals to other dimensions might be helpful for discovering a way to sever a portal to our dimension. It's not studying the spell itself it's studying the Spells effects.
I do want to focus on this bit that is not how that works people from our hell are not our hell. If nemesis Host appear on footage we can use that footage as a focus to either discern who or how many there are.
It doesn't matter if they're from our hell that's not how that works. The second anyone is possessed by him they become a focus for him because he's the second in command of an outer God. We cannot ask questions of the five fold Court of fate Nemesis no matter which part of it it infects is not a part of the five-fold Court. Items from the five-fold court can be used as focuses not for questions about the court itself but what is the function of this item what is this made out of questions like that work just fine.
Having a record paper or otherwise of people who have left our hell or have gone into our hell would be a perfectly valid Focus for asking the question Who on this list is Nemesis infected even if they were inside of our hell.
Last edited:
- Whatever portion of the kinetic energy hits the gate keeps going, the gate itself is only a circle three meters across
- Molly does not know enough about the resources of the Red King and his court to he sure, that is why it's in your hands
- One of the least populated areas of South America in general, but that river back there is the Rio Negro and it does see traffic
Not really for two reasons:
1) We can't use it on ourselves, but can use it on Nemesis. Finding "all Nemesis possessed" is possible
2) Shadow Spite Curse suffers no such limitation.
And, as I already said, we are already at risk of Nemesis. This doesn't meaningfully change by the creation of a gate.
Three meters across only? So, basically something that can be blocked with a bank vault door, right? A large one, yeah, but manageable. Enchanted, obviously. First with mortal magics, and then with splendor magic.
Do we get to select where it's located in the Sanctuary? Basically is "in an underground WMD test site bunker" a viable emergence point? If yes, we could quickly refurbish it.
- Location
- Estonia
I suspected that would be the case. I won't and thanks for telling me.
That's kinda my point, though. Won't those slots being used on Earth actually be more dangerous, because Earth is full of entrenched malicious factions, players and plots and often seems to have its fate balanced on a knife-edge?
Meanwhile Sanctuary is politically and metaphysically stable. In the worst case scenario of successful Nemesis infiltration, it should actually be able to soak sabotage better than our Earth interests.
And @Yog has a point. Won't the risk of it possessing one of Sanctuary's people, returning from missions on Earth, mean the threat has already been present anyway? It has been out of the bag the moment we chose to not completely isolate Sanctuary forever.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- ImBuda
If we are gonna do this we have several options:
1 Use one of our favors in order to qsk them to protect the portal
2 Buy barren waste infliction next exp expenditure (or now of the GM lets us) and make the physical area a copy of our hell. This might even allow us to claim the area and use our world shaping skills in It, making extremely difficult for entering.Maybe even closing the gate. If GM allows us to buy It now we could make the área the god resides to have the same properties as our hell, if we kill enough sacrifices.
3 We transform the ressurected god into a gatekeeper, his new charm tree will probably help against infiltrations and we can reinforce him with troops
4 Send one of our subsouls to protect the place for a while.
Ed Too dangerous
[X] Regretfully Goodbye, you cannot take the risk
[X] Plan Stargate Command
-[X] You are saving an ancient Peruvian God today and that's final, you'll find some way to guard the gate or sever it later
-[X] Activate Occult Excellency, BSM, WHWH via Lord of Land Manipulation,
-[X] Select the Sanctuary-side emergence point in a military facility rated for extremely destructive tests, like a balefire or final death research and testing black sites in deep Outer Wastes
-[X] Stunt: Heavy is the Head that wears the Crown, and never before had it felt heavier. To take a risk, expose those under your aegis to new dangers - rhampires attacking, Nemesis infiltration, nuclear weapon strikes, all for the sake of your conflict, and to save one life? You almost turn away. The world around you responds to your inner turmoil, the chill of the wastes permeating the air, causing condensation to gather on your armored shoulders, as it almost starts to rain. And yet, embraced as you are by the touch of the world of your soul, you remember - your subjects are not weak. From the first time you met, they have been eager to test themselves against the challenge of the wider cosmos. To boldly stride forward. And with that reminder, you cast out your sight, mystic senses and that which in mortal tongues is called Intellectus combining to select the best possible emergency point.
[X] Plan Fighting Fit
-[X] Ask the god to take you to a leyline nexus, whatever's close and empty.
-[X] Set up for full crafting buffs (CCC, BSM, WHWH, FPoR, excellency), max out FPoR's bonus by performing the quickest possible warm up rolls for occult.
-[X] Craft the Second Chance splendor
-[X] Use it to restore Mallko to a more whole state, then have Sophia attempt to heal the basic health track damage
-[X] [Stunt]: "Perhaps there is another way, if a rougher one". A deep resolve entered Molly's voice, a mountain that would not be moved "I can attempt a restoration here, but I'll need the remains of that thing and a leyline nexus." Drifting into the air Molly continued "If you wish to be whole we need to move".
1 Use one of our favors in order to qsk them to protect the portal
2 Buy barren waste infliction next exp expenditure (or now of the GM lets us) and make the physical area a copy of our hell. This might even allow us to claim the area and use our world shaping skills in It, making extremely difficult for entering.Maybe even closing the gate. If GM allows us to buy It now we could make the área the god resides to have the same properties as our hell, if we kill enough sacrifices.
3 We transform the ressurected god into a gatekeeper, his new charm tree will probably help against infiltrations and we can reinforce him with troops
4 Send one of our subsouls to protect the place for a while.
Ed Too dangerous
[X] Regretfully Goodbye, you cannot take the risk
[X] Plan Stargate Command
-[X] You are saving an ancient Peruvian God today and that's final, you'll find some way to guard the gate or sever it later
-[X] Activate Occult Excellency, BSM, WHWH via Lord of Land Manipulation,
-[X] Select the Sanctuary-side emergence point in a military facility rated for extremely destructive tests, like a balefire or final death research and testing black sites in deep Outer Wastes
-[X] Stunt: Heavy is the Head that wears the Crown, and never before had it felt heavier. To take a risk, expose those under your aegis to new dangers - rhampires attacking, Nemesis infiltration, nuclear weapon strikes, all for the sake of your conflict, and to save one life? You almost turn away. The world around you responds to your inner turmoil, the chill of the wastes permeating the air, causing condensation to gather on your armored shoulders, as it almost starts to rain. And yet, embraced as you are by the touch of the world of your soul, you remember - your subjects are not weak. From the first time you met, they have been eager to test themselves against the challenge of the wider cosmos. To boldly stride forward. And with that reminder, you cast out your sight, mystic senses and that which in mortal tongues is called Intellectus combining to select the best possible emergency point.
[X] Plan Fighting Fit
-[X] Ask the god to take you to a leyline nexus, whatever's close and empty.
-[X] Set up for full crafting buffs (CCC, BSM, WHWH, FPoR, excellency), max out FPoR's bonus by performing the quickest possible warm up rolls for occult.
-[X] Craft the Second Chance splendor
-[X] Use it to restore Mallko to a more whole state, then have Sophia attempt to heal the basic health track damage
-[X] [Stunt]: "Perhaps there is another way, if a rougher one". A deep resolve entered Molly's voice, a mountain that would not be moved "I can attempt a restoration here, but I'll need the remains of that thing and a leyline nexus." Drifting into the air Molly continued "If you wish to be whole we need to move".
Last edited:
You are going to get a roll to aim, Wits Occult, more successes give you more options.
Anyway good night guys, see you tomorrow as you try to explain what the hell went on, why and how training baby wardens turned into this.
Oh @DragonParadox before you head to bed you mind looking at those potions you said you were going to look at them today.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
The nature of the openings in question is different. Anyway this shouldn't be a concern. If we bring him over entirely it should close. Without doing that though you shouldn't expect it to.
@DragonParadox Is using the Crown in this way viable, that is on the people of the Five Courts or would that count as asking about the Five Courts itself? I'm including land spirits and whatever else the Five Court's has.
1) I said that. I've also pointed out that those foci are limited and can fail. We'd need reason to ask (otherwise we waste the foci) which means until then he does as he pleases unless he screws up and makes his presence known or we go after him later of our own accord.
2) If Nemesis is hiding amongst billions of people some shadows appearing around him may not be noticed. This also requires a physical foci for him.
It grants him an attack vector for infiltration which he would not have without the Gate.
Sure the threat may already exist to an extent. That doesn't mean I think this is worth increasing it to an unknown degree.
That's a good point. We would best be able to deal with an Outsider excursion there. Doesn't mean I want us to deal with that sort of distraction but it's a good point.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Y'all know how reality has an Outsider problem? And how the Outer Gates are a thing?
I wonder how the Outer Gates and that Outsider problem came along in the first place? God probably thought he could handle them, too, and we can all see how well that has turned out.
Let's not create our own Outer Gates, please?
I wonder how the Outer Gates and that Outsider problem came along in the first place? God probably thought he could handle them, too, and we can all see how well that has turned out.
Let's not create our own Outer Gates, please?
I can't believe I'm really thinking about this, but I'm very tempted. Just as a viability check, what can we do to make this less risk?
… It occurs to me that if this guy is the land to such a literal extent then we might be able to exploit that.
This fascination takes the form of winding tattoos that manifest across the body of its owner, telling the story of their life in a curious mix of Quipu and five completely alien languages.
Function:
Any who enter the presence of this splendor with hostile intent to the owner or their allies finds it impossible to leave, or indeed to navigate at all. As they're physically lost, the targets find a freedom of spirit as sublime as their wandering is futile. A blessing echoing the release of a god who knows what it is to be a stranger in his own mind.
They become wholly immune to any mind magic or possession, granting them the freedom to set their own course as they encounter signs of the different elements.
If they were bound by something and set aside their enmity for the splendor's owner with their former masters then they regain the ability to leave, but the protection remains for exactly five hours.
In holding this spark of freedom close the owner is sheltered by it as well. They are granted protection from the same effects without needing to feel hostility towards themselves.
The idea is that any enemy who comes in with the intent of passing to Sanctuary finds themselves hopelessly lost. If that enemy happens to be a mind controlled/possessed victim then they find themselves again spiritually even as they get hopelessly lost physically. For flavor reasons by "stumbling" into signs of the elements and celestial Incarnae in the order of SCE's ritual.
Technically Sacred Protection doesn't explicitly break ongoing effects, but we've seen some flex in how splendors work out in practice and this is a pretty narrowly focused one. I think there's enough room to argue for this sort of function.
The big trick here would be that the splendor forms as tattoos on the owner, and we'd be giving it to mister "I am the land and the land is me" over there. So I'd argue it should be in effect in all of his territory because fascinations can use the presence of their owners as a vector.
Possible to defeat? Yes. Pretty much requires a shaping defense though, which isn't easy.
Do we have even a loose idea what the potential effects on the land would be from the change?
… It occurs to me that if this guy is the land to such a literal extent then we might be able to exploit that.
Perception + Survival
Sapphire Circle Exorcism
This fascination takes the form of winding tattoos that manifest across the body of its owner, telling the story of their life in a curious mix of Quipu and five completely alien languages.
Function:
Any who enter the presence of this splendor with hostile intent to the owner or their allies finds it impossible to leave, or indeed to navigate at all. As they're physically lost, the targets find a freedom of spirit as sublime as their wandering is futile. A blessing echoing the release of a god who knows what it is to be a stranger in his own mind.
They become wholly immune to any mind magic or possession, granting them the freedom to set their own course as they encounter signs of the different elements.
If they were bound by something and set aside their enmity for the splendor's owner with their former masters then they regain the ability to leave, but the protection remains for exactly five hours.
In holding this spark of freedom close the owner is sheltered by it as well. They are granted protection from the same effects without needing to feel hostility towards themselves.
The idea is that any enemy who comes in with the intent of passing to Sanctuary finds themselves hopelessly lost. If that enemy happens to be a mind controlled/possessed victim then they find themselves again spiritually even as they get hopelessly lost physically. For flavor reasons by "stumbling" into signs of the elements and celestial Incarnae in the order of SCE's ritual.
Technically Sacred Protection doesn't explicitly break ongoing effects, but we've seen some flex in how splendors work out in practice and this is a pretty narrowly focused one. I think there's enough room to argue for this sort of function.
The big trick here would be that the splendor forms as tattoos on the owner, and we'd be giving it to mister "I am the land and the land is me" over there. So I'd argue it should be in effect in all of his territory because fascinations can use the presence of their owners as a vector.
Possible to defeat? Yes. Pretty much requires a shaping defense though, which isn't easy.
How much territory counts as his body for the purposes of this transition/a splendor like the above?
Do we have even a loose idea what the potential effects on the land would be from the change?
This is so far away from that that even if you are being facetious I can't let it go. This is a random portal in the ass end of Brazil. There's no amount of slight manipulation that Nemesis could pull outside of literal possession that would make a normal person come here there's no military assets there's nothing here. The only people that would come here are the Reds and we're trying to fucking kill them anyway it's a fixed position portal that we can surround on all sides because it's only 3 m wide we could literally make a bank fault that contains it it's not a... there's a variety of reasons it's not an outer gate from the fact that we can close it given proper conditions to the fact it can just be defended without needing to send thousands to a meat grinder it's just so far removed from that.
Oh right, I did promise.
Thoughts below, sorry for the wait.
The mana potion is too powerful, just giving people Merits, even just internal ones is beyond the scope of mortal magic since it requires alterations of the soul mind and body.
The ink is fine but I think the scales need do go down to a week at most. Remember this is a world where sunset seriously harms mortal magic
The size changing potion is fine