The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
- Thread starter Teen Spirit
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Toaster cult
I Am An Imaginary Living Body
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I think Tyrell is probably the best out of our alternative options atm, so its who I hope viserys goes with but I just think it beneficial to be close to Viserys and support him here
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
I do think that provided the match we offer Viserys is good and doesn't come across as self interested he'd probably be okay with it, but we'll see.
Having Johanna, 'I castrate my son's' enemies so they can dance as fools for him', as our new step mother would be a wild ride in case Viserys chooses her though.
The irony is that I can see her getting along pretty well with our Visenya Reborn background up until a son is born to her.
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Okay yeah that's a radical change in the votes I'm gonna let this go for a while longer.
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I am curious what you expect out of this quest if every moment the MC tries to do something with multiple reasons that can potentially benefit herself and someone else is excessive manipulative "white washing." Like yes Rhaenyra wants to do preventative "civil war avoidance" but in a way that respects her dad's discomforts as best as she sees possible? And this is scheming to the point it's lying to tell her dad she was trying her best for the entire family?
I don't think we screwed up. We made a play for the big win, lining up all our ducks in a row. It didn't work out, but it didn't cost us anything. Otto left with a higher opinion of us. Corlys left thinking that we appreciate the power of his House and desired an alliance with him
Yes, the deal didn't actually happen, but we had no losses, and a few small gains out of it.
On this vote I feel we ought to focus on our relationship with Viserys rather than make a strong play for a specific outcome. That said, Victaria Tyrell isn't a bad option. And I'm hoping from the way it's phrased that we will use the soft sell approach instead of leaning heavily on our father.
So even if the Tyrell option wins, I think we can put this down as just a missed opportunity to bond more with our father. I doubt it will offend him greatly that we put forth such an alternative.
Though I suspect the outcome may not be what we wish. I think this makes it more likely that Alicent is the match, or that she at least becomes his mistress.
I don't get that impression at all. We pushed for a resolution that addressed the issue of the Velaryon dragons. That's a hard headed and unemotional approach that worked best for dealing with Otto and Corlys, and cost us nothing that I see.
That didn't work out, so it seems fine to me to instead just give our father moral support. I don't see why our vote on how to talk to our father is confined by the fact Otto and Corlys both rejected our other offer.
Yes, which is why I don't find the Tyrell match that problematic to suggest. I do think the Dornish match could also work, as it shows a focus on foreign matters and ambition to combat the Triarchy. Viserys might disapprove, but he'd probably put it down as the ambitions of the young. I'd prefer a write in where we simply offer all three alternatives we have, and maybe express a selfish desire to not have it be Alicent, but whatever. This is not a disaster. Just as it was not a disaster that we made a proposal that Otto and Corlys rejected earlier.
If asked about it by Viserys we can honestly point out that we saw the need for a Velaryon match, but wanted to buy our father time to grieve, and also ensure a future match between our child and Laena's could prevent any future dynastic disputes. None of these motives are vile or shameful. They show a daughter that loves her father, her House, and has the forethought to try and find a solution that gratifies everyone. It's exactly the kind of thinking that Viserys would appreciate. Since Corlys rejected the offer, we had to find an alternative option, hence the Tyrell suggestion.
None of this is shameful or something we need to keep secret. For Otto the same explanation works. Even if he does not like the idea of a Tyrell match, it's consistent with what we said earlier. For Corlys we just point out that he rejected our offer to support Laena as a match, he hardly has grounds to complain that we then suggested alternatives when he rejected us. He might be upset, but Rhaenys will certainly approve that we didn't continue trying to appease Corlys when he rejected the offer. I mean, personally she might prefer that we continue to give her house preference, but as a potential future Queen she'll approve of us showing some spine. She'll remain open to a future agreement with us, as will Corlys eventually as well. We didn't burn any bridges last turn.
While I agree that a more open conversation with our father would be best, I also don't feel that we are soullessly scheming here. Suggesting the Tyrell match as an alternative isn't that bad a response. It shows we are thinking about the realm and able to offer ideas. I'd prefer to do it more explicitly, listing all alternatives we found available, but it's okay to just suggest the Tyrell I think. Similarly, I don't feel there is anything to "confess" in our conversations with Otto and Corlys. There is nothing shameful in our offer to Corlys, or our reasoning to Otto.
No, not even the council seat. Obviously we need to improve our standing if we are to secure our position as heir, which is what we ought to be doing. A good heir does that. It's one of the main knocks against Rhaenyra in canon that she didn't do enough to secure her position as heir. And securing the support from Corlys for a move like that is simply good groundwork. Obviously any rivals (which a Laena match could easily turn the Velaryons into) might oppose us getting a council seat. Acting early to prevent that is not a bad idea.
But that is having his and their house's best interests at heart. Establishing a strong support base for herself as heir is looking out for their house's interests. Naturally the interests of a House and it's heir coincide quite a bit. It's a modern thought process to think otherwise.
Books too, he had multiple bastards with his favorite mistress. My guess is that Jason Lannister's nature is part of what made Johanna Westerling into such a character. I also don't think Johanna was very Visenya like. She wore mail to give her men courage agaisnt the ironborn, but I don't think that means she was a warrior. More likely it was a shaming tactic. "Are you men so cowardly that a woman has to don mail and fight to protect you?" Such things tended to occur in the Winter of Widows.
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[X] "I've found an alternative, Victaria Tyrell would prove almost as strong a match as Laena."
[X] Plan Don't Do Everything Alone - Simple Version
[X] Plan Don't Do Everything Alone - Simple Version
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Johanna Westerling didn't just wear mail. She also commanded the garrison of Casterly Rock during wartime and managed to negotiate an alliance with the Reach Lords for the purpose of invading the Iron Islands, as well as ruthless enough to take the young child of her enemy and have the kid gelded and made a fool for her son.
Honestly short of being a dragon rider the Visenya reborn description seems a pretty apt way to describe her from what we know of her.
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Yeah, we had the same result as in the plan "Conciliator" more than anything else...
We are already implying that we won´t be comfortable with him going for Alicent in both "Don't Do Everything Alone" plans , so I hope that he avoids it, and besides that Otto is his friend, and it is vastly different to take Alicent as a lawful wife then it is to take her as her lover...
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Toaster cult
I Am An Imaginary Living Body
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tbf Johanna woul just make for a very interesting story as well, she sounds like she rules
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Thing is in the context of her having a son from Viserys who should inherit in her mind we'd likely to be in the Ironborn position of her story this time around.
Basically I view the difference between the Tyrell option and the Westerling option, as both are fairly respectable matches for Viserys, as the former being from a more formidable house and the latter being a very fearsome step mother to have as an opponent.
But yes, a very impressive lady.
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Oh yeah, "Do what your heart desires" is just about to have a comeback, I can feel it in my bones.
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I do hope people consider what is narratively interesting alongside things like power and stability
Hey, that's why I'm voting for the 'Don't Do Everything Alone' plan. Feel like that gives QM the biggest freedom to work with over trying to force a single option with the Tyrell.
Toaster cult
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oh yeah unequivocally would probably be bad for us, But Johanna vs Rhaenyra would be really interesting because they woul(in this version) be very similar martial queens, Johanna would just be dedicated to her kids vs us. also with how isolated Johanna would be a court(not having ur dad as hand makes her position a lot less secure than Alicent) the politicking on her end would be interesting, her strongest relation at court is the commander of the KG which while definitely powerful, is hampered in a lot of ways by the fact its a symbolic bodyguard position. If I'm honest Johanna is who im rooting to win out of the let viserys pick option just cause I think the dynamic would be really fun to read, despite tyrell probably being thebest option for us
Plotwist Viserys goes with the Martell Gambit option on his own.
Viserys: "History will remember me as Viserys the Peacebringer who united Dorne with the Seven Kingdoms through marriage! Viserys the Great Unifer! Viserys the Dragoncock who conquered the Sun (in Bed)!"