1) We do need neutral territory. We've even made use of it in the quest with Mab and the Council. Arthur would probably not have been as willing to meet us without the infrastructure the Accords provide.
1) Ok, let's say we might indeed need neutral territory, but in both of your examples we used it just fine without being a member.
Good point about potential neutral signatories wanting to send a message, though. But I don't think it's that hard to cultivate a reputation of "won't kill ambassadors" honor. We have always kept our word and respected truce.
3) and 4) are in contradiction towards benefit. Our signatory enemies that want war with us can just decide to kill our official mundane retainers. Those who don't want a war with us won't kill our mundane subordinates.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of that part of Accords. It's not about protecting mundane subordinates, because the vast majority of signatories couldn't care less. It's about marking territory and ability to claim damages and so wergild during arbitration.
And I must strongly protest trying to turn the Accords into "society". You yourself compared them to international law. That's not a society, that's something between societies.
There are deeper old world societal rules that a lot of the supernatural world lives by. Keeping your word, sacred hospitality. That's the society we have been leaning on, when we deal with Odin, White Council, White Court, Fae Courts, etc.
Accords are different. Their purpose is mostly to organize how to divide the world of mortals kept in ignorance between the signatory factions, with most efficiency and least wasteful bloodshed.
That's the system we ultimately want to change. Maybe there could be a benefit to joining up to fight the system from within, but then I would like to see a plan how that would work. I definitely don't want to join, just because it's supernatural UN and it's the "expected" thing to do, to fit it.
[X] I'm a friend of the Council, a new one. You'll get to shoot guns I supplied at some point.
[X] "I'm Molly," you answer with a chuckle. "I brought cookies."
[X] Before you can reply, Clippy's speaker chimes in with the opening lyrics of a rather well known song, "Please allow me to introduce myself..."
-[X] "I'm Molly," you answer with a chuckle. "I brought cookies."
Honestly? Fuck the accords, Molly is Exalted, she has no need to chain herself to old structures when what she wants is to change things for the better, not help maintain the status quo
Mab held up a slender hand as if to forestall bickering. "We must prepare for as many futures as possible, not merely the ones we prefer. If we can slow the mortals' collective hand from striking until we have dealt with the Fomor, then it is worthwhile to attempt. If nothing else, it lets us focus upon a single foe at a time."
I felt myself freeze for a moment at that.
Humanity.
A foe.
I glanced around. Yeah. No wonder there wasn't a representative from the White Council here. Like it or not, they were pretty much the spokespeople for humanity at large, within the Accorded nations. A lot of wizards had family in the mortal world, close ties to it. Martha Liberty was still close with members of an extended clan of whom she was the founding matriarch, down in New Orleans, for example.
And . . . well, even I had Maggie. Friends. It mattered to me. The environment those people existed in, their society, it mattered to me.
Sarissa looked a little disturbed. But other than that, I realized that there was no one else in this room for whom that was true.
Stars and stones.
Ramirez hadn't been wrong.
I was working with monsters.
I mean, just look at the Unseelie Accords Executive Ministry meeting after Ethniu. No humans involved, despite the White Council being a signatory of the Accords (Harry was both out of the White Council and also came in uninvited). Because at its core, the Accords are about protecting the supernatural, even at the expense of humanity. This is after the Battle of Chicago killed 20k, uprooted 100k, and has left Chicago basically quarantined by the rest of the United States.
Dresden had to think fast and act fast using realpolitik to convince the Accorded Nations to provide humanitarian assistance and aid (which, by the way, was masterfully done on his part; when he puts his mind to it, he is startlingly good at power dynamics and negotiation). When the masks came off, it was crystal clear that the Accords are meant to help the supernatural take on the full force of humanity (as opposed to 'just' the White Council), a way to coordinate efforts against the nuclear gorilla in the room.
TLDR; Molly should make her own Accords with the mundane world with blackjack and hookers lasers and nukes!
[X] Before you can reply, Clippy's speaker chimes in with the opening lyrics of a rather well known song, "Please allow me to introduce myself..." -[X] "I'm Molly," you answer with a chuckle. "I brought cookies."
[x] tilts head to peer at the wizardlings for half a momentbefore slipping into a soft smile. "I am Molly Carpenter, Sovereign of the Five Fold Courts, Circlemate to Lydia, daughter of Arwan, Lash, Lady of Light and Flesh, and Olivia, Night Hunter of Chicago. Be welcome among my people."
-[x] claps hands together as her mouth stretches into a mischievous grin. "Now, who's ready for fresh cookies~?"
[x] I'm a friend of the Council, odder than most maybe, definitely newer
-[x]"As for what I am anything that I say is likely to give you the wrong idea because I am a very unique existence in this world."
[X] Before you can reply, Clippy's speaker chimes in with the opening lyrics of a rather well known song, "Please allow me to introduce myself..."
-[X] "I'm Molly," you answer with a chuckle. "I brought cookies."
It occurs to me - we should do some recruiting. Baby wizards are ideal candidates for it. Having a couple of them both Earthside and Courtside that owe primary allegiance to us would be very helpful. If nothing else, Courts would benefit from studying wizard magic.
Are these cookies even safe to give them? I wouldn't want to inflict a bunch of trainee wardens with "All other food is as ash upon your tongues". Would probably annoy the White Council.
1) Ok, let's say we might indeed need neutral territory, but in both of your examples we used it just fine without being a member.
Good point about potential neutral signatories wanting to send a message, though. But I don't think it's that hard to cultivate a reputation of "won't kill ambassadors" honor. We have always kept our word and respected truce.
3) and 4) are in contradiction towards benefit. Our signatory enemies that want war with us can just decide to kill our official mundane retainers. Those who don't want a war with us won't kill our mundane subordinates.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of that part of Accords. It's not about protecting mundane subordinates, because the vast majority of signatories couldn't care less. It's about marking territory and ability to claim damages and so wergild during arbitration.
And I must strongly protest trying to turn the Accords into "society". You yourself compared them to international law. That's not a society, that's something between societies.
There are deeper old world societal rules that a lot of the supernatural world lives by. Keeping your word, sacred hospitality. That's the society we have been leaning on, when we deal with Odin, White Council, White Court, Fae Courts, etc.
Accords are different. Their purpose is mostly to organize how to divide the world of mortals kept in ignorance between the signatory factions, with most efficiency and least wasteful bloodshed.
That's the system we ultimately want to change. Maybe there could be a benefit to joining up to fight the system from within, but then I would like to see a plan how that would work. I definitely don't want to join, just because it's supernatural UN and it's the "expected" thing to do, to fit it.
We don't get as much out of the parts of the system we need if we're not a signatory. I also think you underestimate the influence of legal standing on preempting action we'd otherwise punish on the broad spectrum between total war and amicable peace.
The rules that exist are in place precisely because the different societies needed something laid out in writing to clarify points of common confusion. The cost of joining is not killing messengers while they're on messenger duty. The gain is legitimacy and access to systems of diplomatic contact.
If we want to have diplomatic contact with the world we're trying to change we need to meet it where it is first. Rejecting that is basically virtue signaling at the expense of actually getting things done in my eyes.
Mab held up a slender hand as if to forestall bickering. "We must prepare for as many futures as possible, not merely the ones we prefer. If we can slow the mortals' collective hand from striking until we have dealt with the Fomor, then it is worthwhile to attempt. If nothing else, it lets us focus upon a single foe at a time."
I felt myself freeze for a moment at that.
Humanity.
A foe.
I glanced around. Yeah. No wonder there wasn't a representative from the White Council here. Like it or not, they were pretty much the spokespeople for humanity at large, within the Accorded nations. A lot of wizards had family in the mortal world, close ties to it. Martha Liberty was still close with members of an extended clan of whom she was the founding matriarch, down in New Orleans, for example.
And . . . well, even I had Maggie. Friends. It mattered to me. The environment those people existed in, their society, it mattered to me.
Sarissa looked a little disturbed. But other than that, I realized that there was no one else in this room for whom that was true.
Stars and stones.
Ramirez hadn't been wrong.
I was working with monsters.
I mean, just look at the Unseelie Accords Executive Ministry meeting after Ethniu. No humans involved, despite the White Council being a signatory of the Accords (Harry was both out of the White Council and also came in uninvited). Because at its core, the Accords are about protecting the supernatural, even at the expense of humanity. This is after the Battle of Chicago killed 20k, uprooted 100k, and has left Chicago basically quarantined by the rest of the United States.
Dresden had to think fast and act fast using realpolitik to convince the Accorded Nations to provide humanitarian assistance and aid (which, by the way, was masterfully done on his part; when he puts his mind to it, he is startlingly good at power dynamics and negotiation). When the masks came off, it was crystal clear that the Accords are meant to help the supernatural take on the full force of humanity (as opposed to 'just' the White Council), a way to coordinate efforts against the nuclear gorilla in the room.
TLDR; Molly should make her own Accords with the mundane world with blackjack and hookers lasers and nukes!
The Accords help the supernatural powers interact with each other under the modern political climate, which does favor retaining their power.
This doesn't mean having fewer humans in the room is a great idea when you can instead be an advocate they can't ignore there instead.
On the humanitarian assistance front; please consider how pretty much every modern nation interacts with that topic. You have to twist people's arms to get them to partially mitigate problems they themselves caused.
We don't get as much out of the parts of the system we need if we're not a signatory. I also think you underestimate the influence of legal standing on preempting action we'd otherwise punish on the broad spectrum between total war and amicable peace.
The rules that exist are in place precisely because the different societies needed something laid out in writing to clarify points of common confusion. The cost of joining is not killing messengers while they're on messenger duty. The gain is legitimacy and access to systems of diplomatic contact.
If we want to have diplomatic contact with the world we're trying to change we need to meet it where it is first. Rejecting that is basically virtue signaling at the expense of actually getting things done in my eyes.
Are these cookies even safe to give them? I wouldn't want to inflict a bunch of trainee wardens with "All other food is as ash upon your tongues". Would probably annoy the White Council.
Yeah seriously fuck the Accords. The supernatural world has operated without them for a long ass time before Mab created and 'convinced' people to sign them.
Edit: The Accords are a relatively recent thing. I don't believe it was directly stated but as Grape points out it probably was put together at least partially because of humanity's increasing threat level.
Short and sweet. I'm not sure that the sympathy for the devil thing is good in a setting with Fallen Angels supported by the Devil. I don't feel strongly about it but every interaction with the kids should be considered from a political standpoint.
[X] "I'm Molly," you answer with a chuckle. "I brought cookies."
It occurs to me - we should do some recruiting. Baby wizards are ideal candidates for it. Having a couple of them both Earthside and Courtside that owe primary allegiance to us would be very helpful. If nothing else, Courts would benefit from studying wizard magic.
Recruiting these guys outright would be bad politics. The council put them here based on the premise that we're safe to be around. We certainly wouldn't hurt or otherwise abuse anyone we hired, but poaching makes placing them here unsafe for the organization as a whole.
While we haven't agreed to anything and therefore can't be held accountable for breaking our word, it would effectively punish them for extending trust to us.
To a degree I view befriending the council like adopting an outdoor cat. We need to ease our way into it without starling them even if what we're actually doing at any given time is either not harmful or else actively helpful to them.
There's also the practical matter that having members of the council who like us has significant value of its own. They're young and therefore not influential yet, but bringing in lots of young blood and then not letting them into political leadership has a way of forming a unified internal power block. Which swings some power back in their direction.
If they hadn't been discovered by the council already I'd be all for recruitment, but as things stand it's probably better to leave them where they are while working to build bridges.
The knights don't need or want to have diplomatic relationships with people. They don't have citizens, trade interests, or holdings in any significant sense.
[X] "I'm Molly," you answer with a chuckle. "I brought cookies." [X] I'm a friend of the Council, a new one. You'll get to shoot guns I supplied at some point.
[X] Before you can reply, Clippy's speaker chimes in with the opening lyrics of a rather well known song, "Please allow me to introduce myself..." -[X] "I'm Molly," you answer with a chuckle. "I brought cookies."
[x] tilts head to peer at the wizardlings for half a momentbefore slipping into a soft smile. "I am Molly Carpenter, Sovereign of the Five Fold Courts, Circlemate to Lydia, daughter of Arwan, Lash, Lady of Light and Flesh, and Olivia, Night Hunter of Chicago. Be welcome among my people."
-[x] claps hands together as her mouth stretches into a mischievous grin. "Now, who's ready for fresh cookies~?"
[x] I'm a friend of the Council, odder than most maybe, definitely newer
-[x]"As for what I am anything that I say is likely to give you the wrong idea because I am a very unique existence in this world."
Or people could drop the Rolling Stones. Just the cookies would be the one that I'd prefer to win, but I'll take selling guns over the other top contender.
