Yes, but they can't install stealth AND combat enhancements good enough to take on WC senior council. Or they would have done so
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Peabody wasn't supported by an Outsider in canon and we don't know what it gave him in Quest. What are you referring to exactly?
*checks in*
We dont know how much autonomy this version of Peabody retains, especially in a fight.
Vito Malvora did this in White Night, and suddenly went from struggling to not die in a duel with Carlos and Harry to lolpwning the entire battlefield with one spell. Noone had a clue beforehand. Nemesis did this to Justine as well in Battle Grounds, and she suddenly got powerful enough that Harry jumped overboard rather than risk a fight.
Its not a hypothesis. It draws on actual canon events.
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I will be back later, and will try to answer your other reply.
Need to go prep dinner and shit for the fam.
We DONT know this.
We dont know how much autonomy this version of Peabody retains, especially in a fight.
My dude, THIS HAPPENED IN CANON.
Vito Malvora did this in White Night, and suddenly went from struggling to not die in a duel with Carlos and Harry to lolpwning the entire battlefield with one spell. Noone had a clue beforehand. Nemesis did this to Justine as well in Battle Grounds, and she suddenly got powerful enough that Harry jumped overboard rather than risk a fight.
Its not a hypothesis. It draws on actual canon events.
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I will be back later, and will try to answer your other reply.
Need to go prep dinner and shit for the fam.
On to something a bit more on topic.
Vote for
[ ] Plan Sorcery Maxing
If you want Multiple attack (The ability to attack multiple times per round with a full dice pool) potions the ability to make our own version of Periapts (Essence batteries), our clones that are capable of using the mortal magic we learn to brew/Make them, Mana manipulation so we're capable of causing our own version of the warp storms that the Jades and Sandra used. We can also use it directly to retarget or call Wards to Target someone else or create our own version of weaponized geomancy like All is Poison in The Lord of the wicked cities hell, not to mention this is what would allow to move and manipulate Ley lines. It would also allow us to figure out where magic was cast and possibly use them as focuses for Crown questions. Whether it was vampiric Wizard or otherwise. It also allows us to possibly judge and I don't want to use this as a hard fast statement the power level of our opponents which is to say how much juice they have left in the tank whether that be vitae gnosis Ki or what have you.
Vote for
[ ] Plan Ancient Magic
For Pentacle and Scepter which makes all Ancient Sorcery maybe not the most efficient thing but definitely combat viable or provides extra attacks per turn like the Trees Many Branches (2 Essence with P&S, two Essence for an extra attack every turn for the rest of the scene), it also reduces the difficulty of ancient sorcery and all modern sorceries which makes it a stacking bucket for any and all sorcery that we get going forward essentially a - 1DC on all sorcery it is also passive which means it affects our clones that can also use Mortal Magic. Between P&S, BSM and CCC that is difficulty break of - 5 level 4 spells Alchemy Mana manipulation no matter which you're talking about if they're ritually cast can be cast at difficulty 3 with this 20 dice at difficulty 3, or Master Level spells and potions at difficulty 4 the base difficulty for casting sorcery at all. It's a strong investment in getting more sorceress training as well as pushing magical competence.
Vote for
[ ] Plan Minion Maxing
To Ethically feed and protect all of our minions whether it be White, Red, Jade or ghoul. On some level this was the selling point of getting Alchemy 4 so we can make cleansed mana of maggot potions that charged up our Supernatural followers abilities without getting the bonus to DC on them. Or them having to eat humans or other sentence to fill up their Supernatural pools of energy. False Springs Beckon would allow all of our servants to walk in the Sun or if the sun isn't their issue like our white vampires them to be able to touch their Bane without giving away their Identity or their nature the list goes on using FSB would be able to allow them to live as Mortals for all intents and purposes. Fathomless poison Haven allows us to completely Shield all of our servants and ourselves from any damage liquid deals whether it be poisoned liquid or just crushing pressure or water Jets or the list goes on.
More coming later please approval vote if you see multiple plans you like.
Vote for
[ ] Plan Sorcery Maxing
If you want Multiple attack (The ability to attack multiple times per round with a full dice pool) potions the ability to make our own version of Periapts (Essence batteries), our clones that are capable of using the mortal magic we learn to brew/Make them, Mana manipulation so we're capable of causing our own version of the warp storms that the Jades and Sandra used. We can also use it directly to retarget or call Wards to Target someone else or create our own version of weaponized geomancy like All is Poison in The Lord of the wicked cities hell, not to mention this is what would allow to move and manipulate Ley lines. It would also allow us to figure out where magic was cast and possibly use them as focuses for Crown questions. Whether it was vampiric Wizard or otherwise. It also allows us to possibly judge and I don't want to use this as a hard fast statement the power level of our opponents which is to say how much juice they have left in the tank whether that be vitae gnosis Ki or what have you.
Vote for
[ ] Plan Ancient Magic
For Pentacle and Scepter which makes all Ancient Sorcery maybe not the most efficient thing but definitely combat viable or provides extra attacks per turn like the Trees Many Branches (2 Essence with P&S, two Essence for an extra attack every turn for the rest of the scene), it also reduces the difficulty of ancient sorcery and all modern sorceries which makes it a stacking bucket for any and all sorcery that we get going forward essentially a - 1DC on all sorcery it is also passive which means it affects our clones that can also use Mortal Magic. Between P&S, BSM and CCC that is difficulty break of - 5 level 4 spells Alchemy Mana manipulation no matter which you're talking about if they're ritually cast can be cast at difficulty 3 with this 20 dice at difficulty 3, or Master Level spells and potions at difficulty 4 the base difficulty for casting sorcery at all. It's a strong investment in getting more sorceress training as well as pushing magical competence.
Vote for
[ ] Plan Minion Maxing
To Ethically feed and protect all of our minions whether it be White, Red, Jade or ghoul. On some level this was the selling point of getting Alchemy 4 so we can make cleansed mana of maggot potions that charged up our Supernatural followers abilities without getting the bonus to DC on them. Or them having to eat humans or other sentence to fill up their Supernatural pools of energy. False Springs Beckon would allow all of our servants to walk in the Sun or if the sun isn't their issue like our white vampires them to be able to touch their Bane without giving away their Identity or their nature the list goes on using FSB would be able to allow them to live as Mortals for all intents and purposes. Fathomless poison Haven allows us to completely Shield all of our servants and ourselves from any damage liquid deals whether it be poisoned liquid or just crushing pressure or water Jets or the list goes on.
More coming later please approval vote if you see multiple plans you like.
I don't have anything against getting Unbound Eschaton Shintai, but I want Sandstrike Blast, and something will always come before it for people.
Now it's Unbound Eschaton Shintai, next it will be Pentacle and Scepter.
Which means, no Sandstrike Blast.
Now it's Unbound Eschaton Shintai, next it will be Pentacle and Scepter.
Which means, no Sandstrike Blast.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Why does the word choice matter to you? It doesn't noticeably change the optics of what I referenced from the story so its fine. I am presenting it in an accurate way.
A "Buff" is a term used in gaming to refer to a change made by the Developer to improve a character. In this case it's a Quest so the Developer is the writer DragonParadox. He buffed Sandra giving her access to a citywide spell she ordinarily wouldn't have had access to. He used the Outsider Faction in story to make this happen.
Your getting caught up on nothing.
As I said way earlier when this conversation came up awhile ago. It takes years to train wizards up and they're a net gain for humanity and a pro-human aligned faction. Therefore my loose condition is that they suffer problematic casualties even if they manage to handle the situation with only an infodump from us. If the E4 Exalted helps them their survivability will increase.
Therefore I want us to help them.
What things imply to you that they can handle it "without issue"? Is it how Peabody almost fucked everyone over in the books? The scenario is different we don't know if they can handle it without complications. We don't even know what the enemy's plans are yet.
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Okay yeah maybe I'm getting caught up on nothing whatever anyway.
The way the situation goes in the book is the white council with no warning suddenly has to deal with Peabody this is not debatable Dresden and Ebenezer have less then 2 hours to do everything from both the investigative work to the "arrest" this is a cluster fuck of course it's a cluster fuck he's in a prime environment with primed proxies to deal with his exposure the majority of the council doesn't even know he's a traitor until that point no one is prepared because no one had time to prepare, how does them being allowed to actually prepare and not less time than it takes to plan a picnic prepared but like actually making a rest on a major criminal prepared?
I don't buy uju32's bullshit point that people get to just arbitrarily cheat divination rules. Inherently Arthur showed up in front of us he was using magic enhances ability (Mage rule) I don't know if that was an elder trick or not but we've seen from Elder council members they're not Chumps by any stretch of the imagination so why would Peabody just be able to beat them and he wouldn't need to be able to beat them the what counsels membership are full Wizards that have the ability to cast counter magic it would be Peabody against a tribunal Wizards one of which is the black staff that is not what happened in Canada in Canada he got to be in white Council headquarters walking around running around talking to people the wards didn't even activate.
The things to me in the book that indicate they could have handled it was simply because Peabody didn't get away despite being in almost literally the best position possible for his exposure he's still didn't actually get away he's still ended up shot directly in the face by a white Council, people that were directly affected by his ink were fighting off his commands in real time to the point where he needed to take time out of trying to kill Dresden to kill them before they broke his commands. Nothing about that seems to suggest that he could actually take on the Elder counsel if they knew about him for more than 15 to 20 minutes.
Inherently he is a spy and that's kind of the point I think me and bronze tongue have been making that as a spy and someone who is congruent with Peabody and his role as not a combat monster he should be easily dispatched once people know who he is because that's how you deal with spies.
Or to put it another way I do not believe that there is an arbitrary amount of Buffs that you can put into Peabody the wizard without giving away signs of those Buffs because even with veils on true sight it wouldn't actually protect him from the resonance or the energy that he would give off from having them. There are more ways to sense magic and its presents than just the site hell that way of sensing the presence of magic is why Dresden opens up the site as he does because he can feel it and wants a closer look.
TLDR: 2 hours is not enough time to plan a major bust of a criminal they still got them in the end but they can do it without losses if they have the information. I don't believe uju's claims about Outsider investment or divination rules. I believe Peabody is a spy and must operate as such rather than being a Monster who can spin any scenario into his advantage. The council has overwhelming advantage in both numbers and power and the ability to nullify his brainwashing if they know about it beforehand. Not to mention individual counselors performance in their performance against nagaloshi Outsiders, lords of outer night etc.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
No I mean- Do you have an example of them handling something of this magnitude without problems? In order for you to believe they can do it without loses without even knowing what changes were made for the Quest or what Peabody's plans are you need something of substance. Not a prediction based on canon.
I don't know what your talking about regarding "divination rules" and I don't care.
In the books we saw Outsider investments of both the offensive and concealment variety and in Quest we saw that they can grant a veil against True Sight. So we know they can grant both offensive and defensive buffs even to the same character. Read Uju's example given for Vittro. He displayed an Outsider offensive buff onscreen in the books and he has protection from TS as Molly's vision showed demonstrating concealment as well.
There's no reason to believe Peabody can only be given a specific type of assistance from the Outsider.
Wizards are at their strongest when they have prep time. Peabody has had years of it for this exact scenario (getting caught). He has resources of unknown proportions from his backers. Believing that the WC can handle him is one thing but believing that they can do so with no risk of casualties is something else.
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Preparation is always important, and a significant problem of ours is that we bought serious alchemy skill and then don't use it 80% of the time. We should be carrying shit like anti magic gas around as a matter of course, especially when fighting wizards.
We already bought an expensive set of defenses so that Molly can deal with this problem. If we actually use them and invest in gaining capabilities to make us better at pushing our agenda then we can avoid being stuck in a situation where they're necessary.
He's not possessed. He took on a master he shouldn't have and is being turned by degrees into something else.
We are, but one supersedes the other completely. Canon Peabody had some involvement with the Outside via the red court, though it's not clear how much.
Broadly speaking a basic assumption for the entire quest has been that things are different only from the point of divergence. Nominally you could see the setting as modeled now play out exactly as canon did. We've made enough waves it wouldn't even if Molly disappeared, but that sets the expectations for events. That expectation is why we knew to look here and why Peabody's plot is what it is.
He doesn't have to stay the old course, but what you're discussing is changing the rules that set his trajectory after the setting was in flight.
Any speculative change to the rules must make sense as retroactively applied to the situation leading to this and allow for the most likely outcome of the exalt free run to be what happened in canon. If that isn't the case then it calls into question why anything happened the way it did when people could have profited more from doing something else.
Divorcing this case from the general one of the setting is like trying to separate a guy trying to fly by flapping his arms from aeronautics and asking "but what if he flapped really hard?".
Peabody is killed when Morgan shoots him in the head with a mundane gun. Presumably he knew and prepared for the idea of people shooting at him but it worked anyway. "Whoops he could have had a second nuke around and lived, or any other arbitrary combat enhancements, but left it in his other pants" doesn't fit.
They have stealth, but that doesn't mean it's free or that it works terribly well if you pack the thing hiding under it with bonus features.
My basic assumption here is that adding the elements to hide their influence is itself costly and that they can't just subject a given target to whatever enhancement they want whenever they'd like. Similar to how the hells have limits to what they can do to a soul.
The basis of this is that if they could they would have done so far more frequently. That the rules to their limits was not explained doesn't mean they don't have them, and doing something once doesn't mean it can be done whenever.
He's a black council member, which makes him an Outsider collaborator in canon.
Justine was a case like the winter mantle, limiters turned off and a little supernatural spice to give super strength. Harry also didn't consider magic violence an option in that fight because she was a mortal.
Vitto was outright possessed like that whamp duke was, which is different. Presumably some amount of prep is required to make someone a shake and bake host like that. It wasn't a subtle thing they could just give him to use as a passive upgrade, which is what you've been claiming.
In turn coat Arthur Langtry turns what is a chaotic fuckfest into a ordered battle line against Peabody within less than 2 seconds. Specifically uses telepathy to coordinate and push back the thralls of Peabody in the dark in less than 2 seconds. He also projects an image of the council room despite it being pitch black so everyone is capable of seeing and moving efficiently. Arthur Landry with two seconds is capable of nearly undoing years of prep he's essentially why Peabody doesn't get away he directs Dresden to give Chase and then later directs Morgan. One senior Council wizard with no Warning by the way he is just as ambushed as the rest of the council and he's Still the reason Peabody gets shot in the face.
Or In Dresden own words " "in the literal length of a second and a half, turned pure confusion into an ordered battle" because all of the instructions were delivered, complete with a mental image of the Speaking Room so that everyone could see in the dark, in less than a second.
For some reason people who are capable of things like that I believe can handle a single guy. The wards of the white Council are literally stated to be strong enough to hold off armies with magic users in them to countenance Force comparable to lesser gods. Peabody doesn't have to contend with any of those things during his attempted capture. McCoy himself is stated to be capable of flinging a man miles with a gesture of his hand just flinging Peabody's body into a wall would be enough to kill him with that much force it doesn't matter what investments he has a body would splatter if it got hit like that. Listens to Wind is someone who is capable of getting into a transformation running battle with a Lesser God the ends with him flying away from a nuclear explosion unharmed. These are just Feats of three of the senior Council and McCoy is ranked 7th. Rashid literally tells Dresden not to expose Peabody yet because it is not the time and Dresden ignores him which doesn't just imply Rashid already have a plan but was already working on one he has to be vague because otherwise he starts breaking the seventh law and swimming against the Tides of time but the point stands.
Finally Veils aren't perfect we very explicitly see examples of it throughout Dresden Files and being able to disguise from a glance of the Sight isn't actually an the same as being able to completely hide arbitrary amounts of Investments. As in Mage and Dresden Files does do this as well magic has its own presence whether that be the presence of Outsiders or otherwise you cannot Main line a deeply powerful source of magic and not have it linger upon you forever Dresden himself constantly apparently smells like smoke and I get it it's funny to think that he's constantly in fires enough to smell like that but he's not that's just a permanent resonance his Magic is taking on I was fully expect anyone with a large amount of infernal Investments too reak of Outsiders either magically or possibly literally that's why I wasn't willing to concede he was possessed simply because that corpse like appearance or dead eyes both of those could be side effects of being a Nephandus.
1) No we havent.
We saw canon Peabody for roughly five or ten minutes, in one scene. We have no idea what else he can actually do, besides having the skill, power and knowledge to safely summon and contain a mistwraith, a sufficiently deadly Outsider creature that it took Arthur Langtry and the entire Senior Council to contain it after it was released.
And we sure as hell have no idea what this Peabody can do, or what he can receive in magical support.
2) No he wasnt.
And the Dragon was an example of a situation where only the luck of the draw saved us
Harry somehow managed to roll 5 successes on 5 dice, and the QM was generous so the 2 successes left to the Dragon, who had rolled 7 successes, werent applied to detonate a small Vegas city block like they should have.
I repeat, I never want to be in that situation again.
3) ONE
Citations as requested, both spells and magical items
Entropy 2 Rote said:
Entropy 3 said:
M20 How Did You Do That p74 said:
Dead Magic 2 said:
Book of Crafts said:
TWO:
You have been making arguments based on the assumption that arcana and other constructs get to play by Exalted rules.
When they dont.
Exalts have Excellencies that explicitly arent capped.
Counterspelling dice for Night Folk is capped; it doesnt matter how high their Wits + Occult dice is, there's a relevant other stat that determines how many of that dice they get to apply, whether its Gnosis, Rage, WP or Glamor.
Night-Folk Counterspelling
Vampires, werewolves, faerie beings, and other paranormal entities have a chance to resist a mage's Arts… and the
mages can often resist Night-Folks' abilities too. Although such monsters don't use countermagick in the way that mages
do, their innate abilities give them a certain degree of protection.
Dice Pools
Night-Folk can use the equivalent of basic countermagick. Instead of Arete, such entities use their Wits + Occult as a dice pool. However, that dice pool cannot exceed the Gnosis or Rage (whichever is higher, for werecreatures), Willpower (vampires, spirits, wraiths, demons, hunters, and hedge wizards), Glamour (changelings and other fae), Mystic Shield
(Bygones), or True Faith (faithful humans) Trait of the Night-Folk character. Essentially, those Traits reflect the metaphysical capacity of the target character. If a werewolf, for instance, has a Wits + Occult dice pool of six but a Gnosis of 4 and a Rage of 3, then she cannot use more than four dice as countermagick.
If the targeted creature does not have a Wits + Occult dice pool, then the Storyteller may rule that the character cannot
resist True Magick – see Optional Limits, below. That said, a mage needs certain Spheres in order to harm a member
of the Night-Folk. As shown on the Common Magickal Effects chart (p. 508), Life Sphere magick alone cannot
affect vampires, werebeasts, ghosts, spirits, or the fae.
Difficulties and Limits
Whatever dice pool you employ, the difficulty for such rolls is either 7 or the mage's Arete, whichever is higher. This way,
a powerful werewolf or vampire can shrug off the Arts of an amateur mage, but a powerful wizard or Technocrat can
wipe the floor with supernatural foes.
On a related note, the Night-Folk cannot counter immediate-damage attacks like plasma bolts or Enlightened martial
arts, nor can they oppose indirect assaults like weakened floors, fire, typhoons, and so forth. The only way to counter
a mage's attack is to recognize it as a mystic assault. Thaumaturgical counterspells won't prevent a Virtual Adept from
using Enlightened hypertech to hack the vampire prince's bank account.
Vampires, werewolves, faerie beings, and other paranormal entities have a chance to resist a mage's Arts… and the
mages can often resist Night-Folks' abilities too. Although such monsters don't use countermagick in the way that mages
do, their innate abilities give them a certain degree of protection.
Dice Pools
Night-Folk can use the equivalent of basic countermagick. Instead of Arete, such entities use their Wits + Occult as a dice pool. However, that dice pool cannot exceed the Gnosis or Rage (whichever is higher, for werecreatures), Willpower (vampires, spirits, wraiths, demons, hunters, and hedge wizards), Glamour (changelings and other fae), Mystic Shield
(Bygones), or True Faith (faithful humans) Trait of the Night-Folk character. Essentially, those Traits reflect the metaphysical capacity of the target character. If a werewolf, for instance, has a Wits + Occult dice pool of six but a Gnosis of 4 and a Rage of 3, then she cannot use more than four dice as countermagick.
If the targeted creature does not have a Wits + Occult dice pool, then the Storyteller may rule that the character cannot
resist True Magick – see Optional Limits, below. That said, a mage needs certain Spheres in order to harm a member
of the Night-Folk. As shown on the Common Magickal Effects chart (p. 508), Life Sphere magick alone cannot
affect vampires, werebeasts, ghosts, spirits, or the fae.
Difficulties and Limits
Whatever dice pool you employ, the difficulty for such rolls is either 7 or the mage's Arete, whichever is higher. This way,
a powerful werewolf or vampire can shrug off the Arts of an amateur mage, but a powerful wizard or Technocrat can
wipe the floor with supernatural foes.
On a related note, the Night-Folk cannot counter immediate-damage attacks like plasma bolts or Enlightened martial
arts, nor can they oppose indirect assaults like weakened floors, fire, typhoons, and so forth. The only way to counter
a mage's attack is to recognize it as a mystic assault. Thaumaturgical counterspells won't prevent a Virtual Adept from
using Enlightened hypertech to hack the vampire prince's bank account.
And thats before you run into the ExWoD thing where some effects are calibrated based on the relative power of the two opposing characters.
A construct with no mojo is at a distinct disadvantage against an Arete 5 wizard with like Entropy/Prime 3.
TLDR
No construct's counterspells are going to be even vaguely in the same neighborhood as an even moderately optimized Exalt with an Excellency. Or a Demon of Tiffany's ancestry.
They are not in the same weight class, and trying to force one into that situation will lead to disaster.
6) No, thats not how it works for wizards.
In a setting where knowledge is literally power, being specced for information gathering gives you tons of weaponized and weaponizable information. Metaphysical grunt matters, but knowledge and experience matters far more.
This is like arguing that because Ivy is overwhelmingly information-specced, that she's a shitty combatant.
Instead of the single most powerful human magic user we have seen in the series so far.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
That's your guess sure. We don't know that though.
What lead you to this conclusion? This is not accurate.
This is an AU(alternate universe) merged setting. I think your not adequately factoring this in. Your looking at canon storylines and assuming that X must match up for the setting to resemble canon as much as it does or that setting changes made are only for flavor rather than significant alterations that may necessitate that the player base respond appropriately.
This is like the conversation you had with DragonParadox earlier on the power scaling of the Yama Kings. They are Fallen level for the purposes of the Quest "the Fallen themselves" a setting change that effects everything else while still allowing a similar on the surface to canon setup.
You didn't think that change fit with your perceived model of the setting. Regardless it was implemented.
Even though we have no idea of the scope of changes made to the setting just that they have been made you still seem to hold the stance that significant changes can't be made while maintaining the appearance of canon.
Consider what else may appear the same at first but in actuality be very different under the hood. Story beats and characters from the books can still be utilized while changing ingredients. Your drawing too many conclusions from what we do have and it's leading you to believe that things have to be a certain way or it wouldn't make sense.
It's not reasonable to assume that something is being handled differently by default but we already have seen a significant change here. Unlike in canon we don't know that Peabody's working with Reds (something that DP pointed out) and an Outsider is ridding shotgun in his head. Unlike in canon he has had access and still does to Outsider investments.
What's stopping Peabody from getting an additional boost like Justine but for a Wizard? The fact that something happened once means it may be able to happen again you can't just dismiss the possibility once a precedent is set when doing risk assessment because it's convenient. You need to factor it in.
@BronzeTongue Broken link. Here's the conversation.
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No she was not.
She was rocking a full power Nemesis infestation, and noone noticed a thing. Not Harry, not Lara, not Goodman Grey or anyone of the great and mighty she came into contact with.
And no, Harry did not stop because of her mortality. He ran away because he wasnt sure he could win, even on Demonreach.
Yes, Harry was exhausted after Battle Grounds.
But when a six foot nine, two hundred and fifty pound plus Winter-empowered supersoldier chooses to bail than risk a fight with a five foot nothing woman possessed by a spirit, that should tell you something about the spirit riding her.
It was very much a subtle thing that they gave him. Because noone noticed it until he began using it.
Vito apparently was walking around with Outsider Inside(TM) and noone saw a thing.
Not Duchess Malvora, not the White Queen, not Dresden, not Carlos.
Lash herself, the Shadow of a Fallen Angel, did not see or perceive anything until he actually used it.
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Alexander Harrowmont was a super knowledgeable lesser Talent that was never enough to actually bridge the gap or even make him someone capable of using the magic that he knew. The Archive is powerful because they have a fuck ton of mystical grunt not just all of the knowledge. No amount of knowledge would have ever been enough to bridge the gap between Harrowmont and the Archive.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Unfortunately we aren't dealing with canon Peabody so I can't say with certainty that they can handle him without casualties which has always been my position. Not that he can't be 'handled'. Not that we even knew his full kit in canon but that's besides the point.
Peabody is shielded from Rashid's sight. We know this from Molly's vision. He was described to be hidden from "even the wisest". Again things are different here.
An Outsider supplied veil seems to be of a different tier. Don't downplay it. The Sight is supposed to be an absolute effect. I can't recall any instance of it being used and not doing what it's supposed to. Other than with Outsider involvement.
Outsiders have hidden investments from people who should've noticed them before. It wouldn't be anything new.
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Alexander Harrowmont was NOT a wizard. He was a Path sorcerer.
There is a minimum threshold to be met with regards to power, one he only crossed with the Demon's Backing.
Harry has been repeatedly described as one of the top 50 strongest wizards in North America, if not the world.
And yet, Word of Butcher is that many objectively weaker wizards would punk him.
Because they are older, better skilled, more knowledgeable, more experienced.
The Archive has mystical grunt BECAUSE it has All The Knowledge.
Sufficient knowledge is enough to bridge the gap, and make Ivy, who is currently 11 years old, IE younger than Molly was when she first Awakened to magic, the magical monster that she is.
For reference, wizards dont begin to awaken before 10. Harry Awakened at 10, Molly around 13.
Ivy was a monster practiced spellcaster at 7.
DDIT
Also worth correcting the comment on Alexander Harrowmont being super knowledgeable.
The dude is a 20-something/early 30s nerd who was Int 3-4, Occult 2-4 before hooking up with the Demon of Vegas.
He's good, but not that good IIRC.
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So yet again I can't tell if you're being obtuse or not no amount of knowledge was enough to make him a fucking wizard. The archive is a wizard level Talent before any of her knowledge it's enough to make her extremely dangerous but no amount of knowledge would ever make harrowmont a wizard. And I think you understood me just fine.
The Sight is an absolute effect with a dice roll it's very explicit both in text of this class and in Dresden Files they don't actually get all of the information without opening their site for a prolonged period. The longer they can look at the something the more details they can glean it's almost like the Sight is named correctly that it's looking at something studying it intently. Wizards if they're not named Dresden and like being sane don't do that very often. So when I say a Veil can survive a glance or a look from a distance from the Sight that's pretty much all I expected to actually hold up to.
I don't expect someone with the Sight to just be able to glance in our Direction and see under Black Mirror incarnation but I expect them if they study us with the Sight to just see Molly Carpenter under it if they look long enough. Similarly if we or Peabody got soul gazed I'm sure we would both be instantly exposed.
Its worth also looking at the general picture of the White Council, and what their current resources are like.
Its only been around a year and half since the events of Dead Beat in October 2005, where the White Council almost lost the ongoing war. They lost around 70% of the Wardens that week, in addition to the previous losses of the previous 4 years of War. And the Senior Council member Simon Petrovich and his brute squad, who died at Archangel back around 2003 IIRC.
And the other wizards who got jumped or ambushed.
These losses have not been replaced. Wont be properly replaced for decades; experience only comes with age and learning.
The White Council is canonically currently training TEENAGERS as Wardens; the Trailman twins were 16 when they died at Camp Kaboom in canon.
They have the 20 year old Ramirez as overall regional commander for the Western US.
Make no mistake about the brave face they are putting on; the White Council is STRETCHED.
They have no reserves, no room for error, and are leaning hard on allies for active operations. They do not have the human resources to handle an insider threat of this caliber, and cant afford to fumble it and sustain any additional losses
Furthermore, we know Peabody has been secretary of the Senior Council since at least when Harry was tried 16 or 17 years ago. Thats more than a decade and half that he's been dosing them with his mind control inks and whispering in their ear.
They are senior wizards, too old and firm to be controlled, but that doesnt mean he's not had an influence.
And that influence might be enough to cause them to hesitate, to stumble in any attempt to get him.
One, Harrowmont was granted a boost. I think we can both agree on that.
Whether he's now a wizard, or just a caster of wizard-tier Sponsored Magic is unclear.
And I dont think he cares, either. We'd have to get Word of QM for that.
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Two, the Archive has access to information no one else living does.
Its quite possible that there is enough information there to MAKE a mundane into a wizard. Solars certainly can Enlighten mortals into wizardry with the right knowledge and belief in ExWoD, and everyone in the DF is a little bit magic.
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Three, magical talents in the Dresden Fils can grow with time and use and the right knowledge.
The Denarians are the prime example of that.
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Four, as far as Im aware, Ivy was never a wizard-level talent in canon.
Wizardry is matrilineal, but is not inherited that reliably down a bloodline, as Molly and Charity will tell you, and yet every Archive is a caster. The fact that she was handling mordite/deathstone at 7 years makes it clear that whatever the fuck things work for her, they sure as hell isnt the way it works for any other wizard in the setting.
Wizards take time to Awaken and even more to train; Ivy was a monster before other wizard talents even awaken.
She could be a wizard. She could also be a Sponsored Magic user, with her patron being the Archive.
We dont know.
This is you claiming knowledge is literally power I posing example where I then point to a minor Talent who is accumulated a fuck ton of knowledge and is just as powerful when he started. Almost like isn't actually power it's the execution with that knowledge or getting yourself a patron or doing anything that isn't just sitting on a fuck ton of knowledge.
It doesn't matter how she comes into her magic doesn't matter how much knowledge she has without some level of innate magical Talent OR granted magical ability no amount of knowledge would allow her to make the jump into being as powerful as she is that is what I meant by you understood me just fine I don't care if it was sponsored genetic or otherwise. It is just straight up false to call Knowledge power when knowledge by itself isn't enough.
None of the senior Council or Dresden or any wizard is dangerous just because of their knowledge by itself it's the fact they have a fuck ton of metaphysical grunt behind them.
When Dresden forces a Titan to face him in battle it's certainly not his theoretical knowledge of magic that's doing that for him it's his metaphysical grunt.
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Harrowmont is contracted to the Demon of Vegas.
How it actually works here is unclear; he already had a talent. If he is channelling a contract, or if the Demon artificially boosted him permanently is unclear, and wasnt really relevant to ask.
And yes, I repeat, knowledge is literally (magic)power.
Skill and scholarship are the overriding determinant in the vast majority of magic users we have seen onscreen in the Dresden Files in canon.
Natural power helps, but above a minimum threshold of power it appears to be expertise that determines the way.
Every mortal in the canon Dresden Files and in this AU is at least a little magic. Everyone can do shit like empowering a circle.
Beyond an unknown threshold, its all sweat and skill and swot.
Not inheritance.
That metaphysical grunt is the result of their knowledge.
Of decades of learned skill and practice, of social connections and scholarship.
Its not because they were born powerful; thats allegedly not how wizardry works. Allegedly.
Even Harry the baby wizard has been learning and practicing since he was picked from the orphanage/foster home at 10.
No actually.
When Dresden bound Ethniu, it was his Will and Authority and Knowledge that counted. And the Spear of Destiny he was carrying in his free hand. Not his personal metaphysical grunt. Alfred did all the heavy lifting there.
- Location
- portugal
[X] Plan Unbound Empress
So you did understand the rest of every post you've had since that first comment is ancillary to that unknown threshold.
No amount of knowledge practice or skill will ever take you past it if you are not born above it you need a sponsor or there is no other option.