Eh... that is Imperial Saint levels of Faith. In any case if we had done against the Shard with nothing but True Faith we'd have lost so it does not answer their question.
Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
- Start date
- Crossover
Eh... that is Imperial Saint levels of Faith. In any case if we had done against the Shard with nothing but True Faith we'd have lost so it does not answer their question.
The Froggy Ninja
The Blade Will Never Die
Lidless Demon Eye wouldn't let them look into the Warp anyway. We've established that All Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight, and other "perceive dematerialized spirits" charms don't actually let you look past the Veil, when I asked about that.
As an aside,
Counterpoint, this guy is incredibly suspicious. He knows things we haven't told anybody. Going into this debate without knowing how he knows those things seems like a bad idea. And also, Lorgar has five dots of telepathy. That's the "so stealthy you can actively insert thoughts into people's minds without them noticing the distinction". Mindreading would be relatively trivial to conceal.
[X] Plan: I am just a man
I like this one better and don't want to get a headache by going on a 5 hour trip about "what is divinity"
I like this one better and don't want to get a headache by going on a 5 hour trip about "what is divinity"
I feel we should go for a mix of the plans, they are pretty good and hit good points, and on first look there is little to no contradictory statements in them, i feel like a vibe of "I am man, and man is divine, not it the way of being gods, but in the manner of us being man of being able to chose to be good, we are free, we are all standing here. Through chance, skill, faith and unity. We are human together." Ya get me?
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
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I'll see what I can add.
Lorgar should be able to get answers unless the answers matter. If this guy is important enough that we want to step carefully around him but not an enemy, like say an eldari belonging to that refugee fleet from canon, he is going to take telepathing intrusion very badly.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
When you are in the Warp, it does.
I believe Navigators can also only do so in the warp from a special room prepared for them.
Their eye gives them abilities that lidless demon eye does not but that is the trade off for an eye with a better bonus.
@InkDrop I edited in the paragraph about the most important moment to Lorgar in the mask of winters saga being Fan being there for him, which is also true since that was when his intimacies came into play and his torment could have come into effect.
-[] Know that you are not alone as I was not alone in my time of need. I too needed people to turn to, people I can trust, and people I can put my faith in. When I was at my lowest, my father was the one who helped me, not using his talents in sorcery but with words of advice. He wasn't talking to Lorgar the Primarch; he was telling his son Lorgar to stop being a moody brat because he had faith in me, a parent's faith in their child. There was nothing beyond mortal means in that interaction. Yet, it helped me more than anything he did with powers beyond the means of an average person. This act of humanity in him and in me mattered the most. People of Colchis, every single one of you has the potential for greatness because you are already great. Every time you reach out to your fellows, you build a better future, a single step at a time. Some may claim otherwise, but to me, that is much more powerful than any other miracle. And Tiberius, even if I was somewhat irritated that you saw me as something I am not, I am proud of you for being willing to stand up for yourself and others against someone you consider a deity. This is what I meant by strength of humanity, a desire to stand for our beliefs.
-[] Know that you are not alone as I was not alone in my time of need. I too needed people to turn to, people I can trust, and people I can put my faith in. When I was at my lowest, my father was the one who helped me, not using his talents in sorcery but with words of advice. He wasn't talking to Lorgar the Primarch; he was telling his son Lorgar to stop being a moody brat because he had faith in me, a parent's faith in their child. There was nothing beyond mortal means in that interaction. Yet, it helped me more than anything he did with powers beyond the means of an average person. This act of humanity in him and in me mattered the most. People of Colchis, every single one of you has the potential for greatness because you are already great. Every time you reach out to your fellows, you build a better future, a single step at a time. Some may claim otherwise, but to me, that is much more powerful than any other miracle. And Tiberius, even if I was somewhat irritated that you saw me as something I am not, I am proud of you for being willing to stand up for yourself and others against someone you consider a deity. This is what I meant by strength of humanity, a desire to stand for our beliefs.
[X] Plan Divinity in All Things
In 40K, at least, most human souls aren't strong enough to survive the trauma of death, and disintegrate into the background energies of the Warp. A warp predator doesn't need to eat them. Souls are just fragile and usually just as mortal as bodies are.
That could well be true in Exalted as well if Lethe or the Underworld aren't there to catch a soul and clothe it in new flesh or a corpus made of Necrotic Essence derived from the inability of the Neverborn to die.
Navigators can look into the Warp from the Materium to see what the environment is like, or to observe the future. It's part of how they Navigate, they plot a route before they enter the Warp based on what they see of the 'weather', the prevailing winds/currents.
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I mean... they it would be a bit hard to tell what's disintegration from death i.e. being stripped of a material body and what's disintegration from contact with the warp since those are simultaneous but one of those things seems a lot more likely to dissolve souls.
I basically did, but I'm too lazy to write more after rehashing lorgar's beliefs
Plus, if we used it on the idiot who after reading lorgar's belief of humans having the pothental to shape existence and that we shouldn't rely on gods to do so but co exist with ones that don't lower human potential shouldn't work as he ignored the words entirely (which makes him a heretic of his own religion) ; the best I can think of is having lorgar say that of all of the gods he knows (and if he really divine include himself) that there is no god that deserves worship, gratitude and awe yes but not worship
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Thing is, as you mentioned before; souls are always in contact with the Warp. It's when people become only a soul and stop having a biological brain to do their thinking with as well as a warp presence that they can't cope and (literally) fall apart.
It's worth remembering that in Exalted; people who are Wyld Shaped have souls and can Exalt. However, as the charm says:
Article: Creatures made using Wyld-Shaping Technique are outside Creation's processes of life and death. They do not reincarnate in Creation or as a real creature unless Heaven orders their pattern woven into the Loom of Fate. Nor do they form ghosts unless the Neverborn intervene to recreate their Essence pattern as such. They fade away upon their deaths and are no longer valid targets for Charms or other effects unless otherwise stated.
All humans in Warhammer are probably in the same situation, unless a Power intervenes, which in Creation is either a Primoridal or someone using the supernal infrastructure that a collection of Primordials built. Creation born humans benefit form that by default, they're automatically integrated into the Heavenly processes that prevent them fading away after death. Everyone else is out of luck.
Note that in Exalted it's only Hun souls that have a chance at immortality. Po souls by default disintegrate at some point after death, although they may hang around for a long time if they're powerful enough.
Unless someone remade humans out of Wyld stuff (and did it well enough to allow them to Exalt) I do not think that is the case. In any case the distinction is very esoteric Lorgar does not know the arrangements of Creation, but he has encountered precisely one planet in his life that he can recall and that planet has a world soul. Why would be not think that all planets work like that and thus that all souls are as eternal as the Colchisians?
- Location
- Arcadia
Hm, time to roll the dice and see the results, then. Regardless, it is always fascinating to observe philosophical discourse.
It's not because they're made from the Wyld that means that someone made from Wyld shaping can't reincarnate or become a ghost. Simple made using an effect that allows Shaping Creation would have the same issue. Itms thst they're not integrated into Creation's systems of life and death. Note how it doesn't say that anything needs to he done to transform the person to make them reincarnate. They just need to be registered with Creation's systems. That suggests that it isn't something inherent to them that makes them unable to reincarnate (but able to Exalt). They otherwise seem identical to Creation bork humans save that they aren't registered with a reincarnation system. Warhammer humans aren't registered with a reincarnation system either, so if they're the same as Exalted humans presumably wouldn't reincarnate either.
As to how he would know that it works differently without a World Spul, because he gets five automatic successes plus ten dice on all Lore/Occult checks because the emperor programmed him with knowledge before he was born.
Also, given that Thalassa was in the service of a Magos who was highly interested in warp phenomena she would probably know. It's not like it's a hard to learn secret, Navigators can watch what happens to a soul when a person does.
At a critical moment telling people something that is provably and observably untrue seems like an unforced error. It also makes it harder to spread the philosophy if it has a basic building block that souls are immortal when they're generally not at all.
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Kill someone in Elsewhere, in a pocket with no access to the Wyld, what happens to the soul? My bet is nothing, as in nothing at all, they are just stuck in there, still themselves but not melting into the Wyld since there is no Wyld for them to melt into
As for observably false... it is not, it is really really not, to all appearances that these people can see with real sight or warp sight souls are eternal unless something happens to them. The realization that other souls are not so lucky will not be some kind of gacha 'I knew the Emperor programed you with 5 automatic successes to all Lore/Occult rolls' it will be a horror for them and for him worthy of somber reflection.
At the end of the day I do not think 'your soul would normally melt/be daemon chow' is something you drop on people with no actual proof beyond your word and definitely not when you are also trying to get them to understand the concept of demigods and Exaltations.
Turn 8: Faith is a Journey
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Colchis - 831.M30
Lorgar raised his hands, calling for silence. The murmur of the crowd gradually subsided, and he began to speak, his voice calm yet resonant, carrying across the hall.
"You are well informed, Tiberius, and your words show wisdom. But you do not know the whole story, and that, ironically enough, is the heart of it, what is unknown, what is hidden. I will try to explain, but first, I ask all of you, whether you think I am a god or not: Do you believe I am worthy of listening to? Do you believe I speak the truth as I understand it and not lies?"
The crowd hesitated, their loyalty to Lorgar weighing against the preacher's compelling arguments. Whispers of uncertainty rippled through them, and for a moment, it seemed as if the balance could tip either way.
Before Lorgar could continue, Tiberius stepped forward, his voice cutting through the silence like a blade. "Lorgar, I know the truth. I have seen it with my own eyes, felt it in my soul. You ask for trust, but let me share with you and everyone here why I speak with such conviction."
Lorgar fell silent, curious and cautious, as Tiberius began to recount his tale.
"When the Shard of Winter attacked," Tiberius began, his voice steady but filled with emotion, "I was among those who fought to defend our world. The cold was unbearable, the darkness overwhelming. Many fell that day, and I was one of them. My body froze, my heart stopped, and I died. I prayed to the Gods of the Covenant, to any god who would listed, even though none did. Then, I prayed to you."
A gasp rippled through the crowd. Tiberius paused, letting the weight of his words settle before he continued.
"I was struck down but…..I returned. I did not become one of the undead, nor was I lost to the void. I awoke, alive but changed. I was still myself, still human, but touched by your power, elevated beyond life and death. My presence was enough for the dead to flee from me, I could heal wounds and so much more. But despite this, I knew I had to find my family, my loved ones who had been taken from me. So I embarked on a journey into the underworld itself."
The crowd hung on his every word, their eyes wide with awe and fear. Even Lorgar, who had seen much in his life, listened intently, unsure where this story would lead.
"I traveled through the realms of the dead," Tiberius continued, his voice growing softer as he recounted the harrowing experience. "I died again and again, always returning back to life. I saw things that no living being should see, souls in torment, spirits lost in despair. But I pressed on, driven by the hope of finding those I had lost. And then, in the deepest depths of that forsaken place, I witnessed a miracle."
He paused, his gaze sweeping across the crowd, ensuring every person felt the gravity of his words.
"Lorgar," Tiberius said, turning to face the leader he both revered and challenged, "I saw you there. I saw you standing before the great gates of the underworld, and I saw what you did. You called upon the power of the Worldsoul, and it answered you. The dead themselves rose at your command, not as mindless husks but restored to life, whole and pure, my family among them, brought back from the void, their spirits reunited with their bodies. That is why I stand before you today."
The crowd erupted into stunned silence, their disbelief giving way to wonder. Lorgar himself felt a chill run down his spine. He had known the power of the Worldsoul, had harnessed it in dire moments, but he had not known that anyone had witnessed that event.
Tiberius continued, his voice now filled with a quiet certainty. "You speak of unity, faith, and progress, and I believe in those things. But I also believe in what I have seen. You may not wish to be a god, Lorgar, but the power within you cannot be denied. It is not just a symbol; it is a reality we must acknowledge. You brought us back from death itself. How can that be anything but divine?"
The crowd murmured in agreement, their hearts swayed by Tiberius' words. Lorgar stood still, his expression thoughtful, the weight of the revelation pressing upon him. The challenge was clear, the path ahead uncertain, and the future of their beliefs hung in the balance.
He looked out at the crowd, seeing in their eyes the same mix of awe and confusion that he felt within himself. Tiberius had reignited the debate, and Lorgar knew that his response now would shape the destiny of Colchis.
The silence stretched on, pregnant with possibility, as Lorgar prepared to speak once more.
Lorgar stood before the vast assembly, his heart heavy with the weight of their expectations. Tiberius had spoken passionately, stirring the crowd with visions of divine power and miraculous acts. It was a powerful argument, one that resonated deeply with the people of Colchis, who had seen wonders beyond their comprehension. But Lorgar knew that to elevate himself to godhood, to embrace the mantle of divinity, would betray the very principles he held dear.
The crowd was silent, the tension almost palpable. Billions of eyes were fixed on him, waiting for his response. Lorgar took a deep breath, his mind racing as he searched for the right words. He knew that this moment would define the future of Colchis, and he could not afford to fail.
He began slowly, his voice steady but firm, "I understand the allure of divinity. The miracles you have witnessed, the feats we have accomplished together, seem to defy all reason. It is natural to look upon such acts and see the hand of a god. But I ask you, is power alone what defines divinity? Is might the only measure of worth?"
The crowd listened intently, some nodding, others still uncertain. Lorgar knew he had to go deeper, to challenge their very conception of what it meant to be divine.
"Do you know how Thalassa came to be as she is?" Lorgar asked, his voice carrying across the hall. "She did not arrive on Colchis as the demigod you now know. Thalassa was once mortal, like any of us. It was through the combined efforts of my father, Dharok, and myself that she was transformed, to aid us in our battle against the Shard of Winters. Her very soul was altered, her gifts beyond the mightiest of shamans. But this transformation was not the work of some divine decree. It was a work of craft, of ingenuity, of understanding. It was no different, in essence, from the making of any other technology you use every day."
He paused, letting his words sink in. The crowd was silent, their expressions thoughtful. Lorgar continued, a faint smile touching his lips.
"And yet, in that act of creation, in that blending of the mortal and the divine, we did indeed find something more. We found a glimpse of what lies at the heart of all things, the potential for divinity within every being, within every creation. But let me be clear: this divinity does not demand your worship, your adoration. It does not place Thalassa, or myself, or anyone else above you. It simply is, a part of the universe, as natural as the stars in the sky or the earth beneath our feet."
Lorgar looked out at the crowd, seeing a mixture of understanding and confusion. He knew that this was a difficult concept for them to grasp, but he pressed on.
"Divinity, true divinity, is not superior to humanity. It is more powerful, yes, but that power does not make it greater in worth. It is merely another aspect of existence, another form that we may one day reach if we continue to grow, to learn, to strive. Given the tools, the work, and the understanding, any of you, all of you, could rise as high as any of us. The path before us is long, stretching across millennia, perhaps even eons. But do not despair, for the soul is immortal. If it takes us a thousand years, a million, or a billion to unravel the mysteries of existence, you too shall be part of it."
He let his words hang in the air, feeling the shift in the crowd. Some of the tension had eased, replaced by a sense of awe and possibility. Lorgar saw in their faces the flicker of understanding, the first steps toward a new way of thinking.
"Is not your very resurrection by my call, through the power of the Worldsoul, proof of this?" Lorgar asked, his voice rising with passion. "You have seen death, tasted its finality, yet you stand here today, alive and whole. This is not a gift from a god to his subjects; it is the result of our collective strength, our shared bond with the Worldsoul. We have tapped into the deeper truths of existence, and in doing so, we have defied the boundaries that once held us back."
Tiberius, who had stood quietly until now, stepped forward. His expression was contemplative, but there was still a fire in his eyes. "Lorgar, you speak of the potential within all of us, and I do not doubt that it is there. But the power you wield, the miracles you have performed, they are not mere possibilities. They are realities. And these realities point to something greater, something beyond what we once believed possible. If this is not proof of your divinity, then what is?"
Lorgar nodded, acknowledging the truth in Tiberius' words. "Yes, Tiberius, they are realities. But they are not the result of superiority. They are the result of knowledge, of understanding, of the willingness to explore the unknown. The power we wield is not a birthright; it is something we have earned through effort, through struggle. And it is something that you, too, can earn."
Tiberius shook his head slowly, a small smile on his lips. "But not everyone can wield that power, Lorgar. Not everyone can ascend to the heights you speak of. Not all men are made equal. And so, they look to you, to Thalassa, to the gods, for guidance, for protection."
"And I will guide them," Lorgar replied, his voice gentle but firm. "But not as a god. I will guide them as one who walks the same path, who faces the same struggles, who shares the same hopes and dreams. I do not seek to elevate myself above them, but to walk beside them. To show them that they, too, have the potential to become more than they are."
As Lorgar finished speaking, the quiet in the assembly was almost tangible, a silence pregnant with the weight of what had just been said. But Tiberius was not one to let such a moment pass unchallenged. He stepped forward, his voice clear and strong, cutting through the quiet like a blade.
"Lorgar," Tiberius began, his tone respectful but firm, "I ask you, who granted you your power? Who made you as you are?"
The question hung in the air, and the crowd shifted uneasily, their eyes flicking between Tiberius and Lorgar. It was a question that many had pondered in silence, one that had lingered in the shadows of their minds but had never been spoken aloud so directly.
Lorgar looked at Tiberius, his gaze steady, thoughtful. He did not respond immediately, but instead raised one large hand, holding it up in front of his face as though trying to stare through the flesh, to see beyond the physical form that he inhabited.
"I do not understand all that I am," Lorgar said slowly, his voice filled with a quiet introspection. "Indeed, I understand just enough to know how very much more there is to discover. But even that small amount makes it clear that I am no natural being. The organs I possess, the redundancies, the resistance to harm and pain that I pass to my sons, these things are not the product of mere evolution or chance. They are artificial, created with intent, with knowledge far beyond what we can comprehend. Most likely, they were designed to help me face the foes that threaten our world, such as the Shard of Winters, whom I have defeated with this power."
He paused, letting the weight of his words settle over the crowd. His eyes, usually so fierce and commanding, now seemed filled with a deep, almost melancholic understanding.
"I do not have final and absolute answers for you all," Lorgar continued, "but this I know to be true: the divinity within each of you is no less worthy of reverence than the divinity within me. Just as a fire is still a fire, whether or not one holds a magnifying glass to it, so too is the potential within each of you no less significant simply because it has not yet been fully realized."
Tiberius frowned, his brow furrowing as he considered Lorgar's words. "But if your power was granted to you, if you were created with intent, then does that not imply that there is a higher power, one that has shaped you, perhaps even one that has shaped all of us? And if such a power exists, does that not make it superior, more deserving of our worship and reverence than the potential within ourselves?"
Lorgar's gaze softened, and he nodded slightly, acknowledging the validity of Tiberius' point.
"It is possible," he conceded. "It is possible that there is a higher power, something beyond even my understanding, something that has set all of this in motion. But even if that is the case, what does it mean for us? Does it mean that we should submit, that we should cease striving to better ourselves, to reach for the stars? Or does it mean that we should continue on our path, seeking to understand, to grow, to become more than we are?"
He looked out at the crowd, his eyes searching the faces of his followers. "I believe that the latter is true. I believe that whatever higher power may exist, it does not wish for us to remain stagnant, to simply accept our place in the universe without question. I believe that we are meant to rise, to challenge, to push the boundaries of what is possible. And in doing so, we honor that higher power, if it exists, not by worshiping it, but by striving to reach the heights it has set before us."
Tiberius remained silent for a moment, his eyes narrowing as he weighed Lorgar's words. The hall was tense, the crowd waiting with bated breath to see how the debate would unfold.
Finally, Tiberius spoke, his voice measured. "You speak of striving, of reaching for the stars, and I do not disagree. But I fear that in your quest for understanding, you may lead us down a path that ignores the very real dangers of hubris. If we are not careful, we may find ourselves not rising to meet the divine, but instead, falling into chaos, consumed by our own ambition."
Lorgar's voice, deep and resonant, filled the shrine as he began to speak. "I have heard your concerns, and I understand the fears that have been brought to light. The path we walk is not an easy one, and it is natural to question, to seek clarity in times of uncertainty. But I want to remind you of something that I hold dear, something that has guided me through the darkest moments of my own journey."
He paused, allowing his words to sink in before continuing, his tone gentle but firm. "Know that you are not alone, just as I was not alone in my time of need. When I was at my lowest, when the weight of my destiny felt too heavy to bear, it was not my strength, my power, or my knowledge that saved me. It was the simple, human act of love and faith that my father showed me."
Lorgar's gaze softened as he recalled the memory, a rare vulnerability in his eyes. "My father did not use his talents in sorcery to guide me out of the darkness. He did not perform any great miracle to lift me up. No, he spoke to me as a father speaks to his son, with words of advice that came not from a place of divine power, but from the deep well of human experience. He did not speak to Lorgar the Light bringer, but to Lorgar his child. He told me to stop being a moody brat because he had faith in me, a parent's faith in their child."
He looked out at the crowd, his expression earnest and open. "There was nothing beyond mortal means in that interaction. Yet, it helped me more than anything he could have done with powers beyond the means of an average person. This act of humanity, in him and in me, mattered the most. It was a simple act of faith, one that did not require divinity, only love, and trust."
Lorgar took a deep breath, his voice growing stronger as he continued. "Every single one of you has the potential for greatness because you are already great. Every time you reach out to your fellows, every time you show kindness, compassion, and understanding, you build a better future, a single step at a time. Some may claim that only the divine can lead us to greatness, but to me, what you do in your everyday lives is much more powerful than any other miracle."
The crowd stirred, some nodding in agreement, others still uncertain, but all were listening intently.
"And Tiberius," Lorgar said, turning his gaze to the man who had challenged him so bravely, "even if I was somewhat irritated that you saw me as something I am not, I am proud of you for being willing to stand up for yourself and others against someone you consider a deity. This is what I meant by the strength of humanity, a desire to stand for our beliefs, to seek the truth even when it is difficult, even when it challenges the status quo."
Lorgar's voice grew more passionate as he continued, the fire of conviction burning bright in his eyes. "This is the path I wish for all of us to walk together. Not one where we place our faith blindly in those we deem superior, but one where we recognize the divine potential within ourselves. Where we understand that true strength does not come from the gods alone, but from the collective power of our humanity, from the bonds we share, the love we give, and the courage we show in the face of adversity."
He swept his gaze across the hall, taking in the faces of his people, his voice carrying the weight of his resolve. "The future is not written in the stars, nor is it dictated by the gods. It is written in our hearts, in our minds, in the choices we make every day. Do not seek divinity in the heavens above, seek it within yourselves, within the world around you. For that is where true power lies, not in the hands of a few, but in the collective strength of all."
Lorgar's final words echoed through the hall, a powerful reminder of the ideals he had striven to instill in his people. "We are all capable of greatness, not because we are divine, but because we are human. And it is our humanity that will guide us, that will light our way through the darkness, and that will build a future where we stand together, not as gods and mortals, but as equals, united in our shared purpose."
The clearing was silent for a moment, the weight of Lorgar's words settling over the crowd like a warm, comforting blanket. Then, slowly, a ripple of applause began to spread, growing louder and more fervent until it filled the entire space. The people of Colchis, moved by Lorgar's speech, found themselves united in a shared sense of purpose, a renewed faith not just in their leader, but in themselves.
Tiberius, standing among them, felt a deep sense of respect for Lorgar, for the man who had taken his challenge and turned it into a lesson for all. He nodded, acknowledging the truth in Lorgar's words, and joined in the applause, knowing that while their paths might differ, their goals were ultimately the same.
The applause gradually subsided, and the grand hall of Colchis fell into a contemplative silence. The people were moved, their hearts stirred by Lorgar's words, yet among them, Tiberius stood quietly, his mind still wrestling with the questions that had driven him to challenge Lorgar in the first place.
Lorgar's speech had been powerful, filled with conviction and wisdom, and it had reached the hearts of many. But for people like Tiberius, something still lingered, a doubt that refused to be soothed by even the most eloquent of words.
He had always been a seeker, a man driven by an insatiable thirst for truth, and now, that thirst led him to a decision that would take him far from the halls of Colchis.
As the crowd began to disperse, murmuring among themselves about the profound words they had heard, Tiberius stepped forward. He approached Lorgar, who was still standing in the center of the hall, speaking quietly with a few of his closest advisors. Sensing Tiberius's presence, Lorgar turned to him, a warm smile on his face.
"Tiberius," Lorgar said, his voice carrying a note of respect. "You have challenged me well today. Your words have sparked a conversation that will echo throughout Colchis for years to come."
Tiberius bowed his head slightly in acknowledgment but did not return the smile. His expression was thoughtful, his brow furrowed with the weight of his unresolved thoughts.
"Lorgar," he began, his tone measured and serious, "I have listened to your words, and I have seen the impact they have had on our people. I do not question your sincerity, nor do I doubt the wisdom you have shared with us today."
Lorgar studied him, his golden eyes reflecting a deep understanding of the inner conflict that Tiberius was grappling with.
"But?" Lorgar prompted gently, sensing that there was more to come.
Tiberius took a deep breath, gathering his thoughts before he spoke again.
"But I am not yet convinced," he admitted, his voice steady despite the uncertainty in his heart. "Your words have moved me, yes, but they have not settled the doubts that I carry within me. I have always sought the truth, and now, more than ever, I feel the need to find it for myself."
Lorgar nodded, his expression thoughtful. "And what do you intend to do, Tiberius?"
Tiberius looked up, meeting Lorgar's gaze with resolve.
"I intend to go on a journey of self-discovery," he declared. "I cannot simply accept what I have heard today, no matter how compelling it may be. I need to see the world beyond Colchis, to seek out the truths that lie beyond our borders. I need to understand for myself what it means to be human, to be divine, and to find my place in this vast, complex universe."
The shrine had emptied out by now, leaving the two men alone in their conversation. Lorgar listened intently, his respect for Tiberius growing with each word. It was not easy to admit doubt, especially in the face of such overwhelming conviction, and Lorgar admired the courage it took for Tiberius to speak his truth.
Tiberius continued, his voice tinged with a mixture of determination and humility. "I do not wish to offend you, Lorgar. You have done so much for our people, and I hold you in the highest regard. But I cannot ignore the call within me, the need to seek out answers that I fear I will not find if I remain here."
Lorgar's smile returned, but this time it was one of genuine warmth and understanding. "You do not offend me, Tiberius. In fact, I am proud of you for following your heart, for daring to seek the truth even when it leads you away from the safety of what you know. The path you are choosing is not an easy one, but it is a noble one, and I respect your decision."
Tiberius bowed his head again, grateful for Lorgar's understanding. "Thank you, Lorgar. I do not know where this journey will take me or what I will find, but I feel that it is something I must do."
"And when you return," Lorgar said, his tone lightening as a hint of amusement crept into his voice, "we will continue this debate. I look forward to hearing what you have discovered, and perhaps we will both be wiser for it."
Tiberius allowed himself a small smile at Lorgar's words.
"I would like that very much," he replied. "There is much that I still need to understand, and I hope that, when I return, I will have answers, not just for myself, but for our people as well."
Lorgar stepped forward, placing a hand on Tiberius' shoulder, a gesture of camaraderie and support. "May your journey be fruitful, Tiberius. Seek out the truth with all your heart, and know that you will always have a place here in Colchis, among those who respect your courage and your quest for understanding."
Tiberius felt a warmth in his chest at Lorgar's words, a reassurance that, despite their differences, he was not alone in his journey. "Thank you, Lorgar. I wish you the best as well, and I hope that our paths will cross again soon."
Lorgar laughed, a deep, resonant sound that echoed through the empty hall. "Oh, I am certain they will, Tiberius. The universe has a way of bringing us back to where we need to be. Go with my blessing, and may the truth you seek find you, wherever you may roam."
With that, Tiberius nodded one last time, a gesture of respect and farewell. He turned and began to walk away, the sound of his footsteps echoing softly in the vastness of the shrine. As he reached the exit, he paused for a moment, looking back at Lorgar, who stood watching him with a calm, steady gaze.
Their eyes met, and in that moment, there was an unspoken understanding between them, two men on different paths, but united by a shared commitment to the truth, to their people, and to the belief that the journey itself was as important as the destination.
Tiberius stepped out into the world beyond, ready to face the unknown, ready to discover the truths that lay hidden in the farthest corners of the galaxy. And as he walked away, he felt a sense of peace, knowing that whatever he found, whatever answers he uncovered, he would return to Colchis a wiser man, and the debate with Lorgar would continue, not as adversaries, but as fellow seekers of the truth.
Lorgar watched Tiberius go, a smile lingering on his lips. The journey ahead would be long and filled with challenges, but he knew that Tiberius had the strength and the resolve to face whatever lay ahead. And when the time came for their paths to cross again, Lorgar would be ready to listen, to learn, and to continue the conversation that had only just begun.
RESULT:
Inconclusive. You gave a great argument but used most of it to make up for the Nat 1 you rolled for the second event.
But the argument was good enough that you can complete the action, just that it will take time.
With regards to Tiberius, he is going on a Journey of self discovery and to find the Truth. He has true faith and is a Perpetual as well a XXXXXX. He also has a few other things going for him as well.
His story is what he believes, not necessarily what is true.
CHOICE:
[] Double the time taken for this action
–It will only be completed in Turn 11 but you get max loyalty
[] Finish this action next turn.
–It will be completed next turn but loyalty is 75%, faith will be divided and further action would need to be taken to unify the faith.
Lorgar raised his hands, calling for silence. The murmur of the crowd gradually subsided, and he began to speak, his voice calm yet resonant, carrying across the hall.
"You are well informed, Tiberius, and your words show wisdom. But you do not know the whole story, and that, ironically enough, is the heart of it, what is unknown, what is hidden. I will try to explain, but first, I ask all of you, whether you think I am a god or not: Do you believe I am worthy of listening to? Do you believe I speak the truth as I understand it and not lies?"
The crowd hesitated, their loyalty to Lorgar weighing against the preacher's compelling arguments. Whispers of uncertainty rippled through them, and for a moment, it seemed as if the balance could tip either way.
Before Lorgar could continue, Tiberius stepped forward, his voice cutting through the silence like a blade. "Lorgar, I know the truth. I have seen it with my own eyes, felt it in my soul. You ask for trust, but let me share with you and everyone here why I speak with such conviction."
Lorgar fell silent, curious and cautious, as Tiberius began to recount his tale.
"When the Shard of Winter attacked," Tiberius began, his voice steady but filled with emotion, "I was among those who fought to defend our world. The cold was unbearable, the darkness overwhelming. Many fell that day, and I was one of them. My body froze, my heart stopped, and I died. I prayed to the Gods of the Covenant, to any god who would listed, even though none did. Then, I prayed to you."
A gasp rippled through the crowd. Tiberius paused, letting the weight of his words settle before he continued.
"I was struck down but…..I returned. I did not become one of the undead, nor was I lost to the void. I awoke, alive but changed. I was still myself, still human, but touched by your power, elevated beyond life and death. My presence was enough for the dead to flee from me, I could heal wounds and so much more. But despite this, I knew I had to find my family, my loved ones who had been taken from me. So I embarked on a journey into the underworld itself."
The crowd hung on his every word, their eyes wide with awe and fear. Even Lorgar, who had seen much in his life, listened intently, unsure where this story would lead.
"I traveled through the realms of the dead," Tiberius continued, his voice growing softer as he recounted the harrowing experience. "I died again and again, always returning back to life. I saw things that no living being should see, souls in torment, spirits lost in despair. But I pressed on, driven by the hope of finding those I had lost. And then, in the deepest depths of that forsaken place, I witnessed a miracle."
He paused, his gaze sweeping across the crowd, ensuring every person felt the gravity of his words.
"Lorgar," Tiberius said, turning to face the leader he both revered and challenged, "I saw you there. I saw you standing before the great gates of the underworld, and I saw what you did. You called upon the power of the Worldsoul, and it answered you. The dead themselves rose at your command, not as mindless husks but restored to life, whole and pure, my family among them, brought back from the void, their spirits reunited with their bodies. That is why I stand before you today."
The crowd erupted into stunned silence, their disbelief giving way to wonder. Lorgar himself felt a chill run down his spine. He had known the power of the Worldsoul, had harnessed it in dire moments, but he had not known that anyone had witnessed that event.
Tiberius continued, his voice now filled with a quiet certainty. "You speak of unity, faith, and progress, and I believe in those things. But I also believe in what I have seen. You may not wish to be a god, Lorgar, but the power within you cannot be denied. It is not just a symbol; it is a reality we must acknowledge. You brought us back from death itself. How can that be anything but divine?"
The crowd murmured in agreement, their hearts swayed by Tiberius' words. Lorgar stood still, his expression thoughtful, the weight of the revelation pressing upon him. The challenge was clear, the path ahead uncertain, and the future of their beliefs hung in the balance.
He looked out at the crowd, seeing in their eyes the same mix of awe and confusion that he felt within himself. Tiberius had reignited the debate, and Lorgar knew that his response now would shape the destiny of Colchis.
The silence stretched on, pregnant with possibility, as Lorgar prepared to speak once more.
Lorgar stood before the vast assembly, his heart heavy with the weight of their expectations. Tiberius had spoken passionately, stirring the crowd with visions of divine power and miraculous acts. It was a powerful argument, one that resonated deeply with the people of Colchis, who had seen wonders beyond their comprehension. But Lorgar knew that to elevate himself to godhood, to embrace the mantle of divinity, would betray the very principles he held dear.
The crowd was silent, the tension almost palpable. Billions of eyes were fixed on him, waiting for his response. Lorgar took a deep breath, his mind racing as he searched for the right words. He knew that this moment would define the future of Colchis, and he could not afford to fail.
He began slowly, his voice steady but firm, "I understand the allure of divinity. The miracles you have witnessed, the feats we have accomplished together, seem to defy all reason. It is natural to look upon such acts and see the hand of a god. But I ask you, is power alone what defines divinity? Is might the only measure of worth?"
The crowd listened intently, some nodding, others still uncertain. Lorgar knew he had to go deeper, to challenge their very conception of what it meant to be divine.
"Do you know how Thalassa came to be as she is?" Lorgar asked, his voice carrying across the hall. "She did not arrive on Colchis as the demigod you now know. Thalassa was once mortal, like any of us. It was through the combined efforts of my father, Dharok, and myself that she was transformed, to aid us in our battle against the Shard of Winters. Her very soul was altered, her gifts beyond the mightiest of shamans. But this transformation was not the work of some divine decree. It was a work of craft, of ingenuity, of understanding. It was no different, in essence, from the making of any other technology you use every day."
He paused, letting his words sink in. The crowd was silent, their expressions thoughtful. Lorgar continued, a faint smile touching his lips.
"And yet, in that act of creation, in that blending of the mortal and the divine, we did indeed find something more. We found a glimpse of what lies at the heart of all things, the potential for divinity within every being, within every creation. But let me be clear: this divinity does not demand your worship, your adoration. It does not place Thalassa, or myself, or anyone else above you. It simply is, a part of the universe, as natural as the stars in the sky or the earth beneath our feet."
Lorgar looked out at the crowd, seeing a mixture of understanding and confusion. He knew that this was a difficult concept for them to grasp, but he pressed on.
"Divinity, true divinity, is not superior to humanity. It is more powerful, yes, but that power does not make it greater in worth. It is merely another aspect of existence, another form that we may one day reach if we continue to grow, to learn, to strive. Given the tools, the work, and the understanding, any of you, all of you, could rise as high as any of us. The path before us is long, stretching across millennia, perhaps even eons. But do not despair, for the soul is immortal. If it takes us a thousand years, a million, or a billion to unravel the mysteries of existence, you too shall be part of it."
He let his words hang in the air, feeling the shift in the crowd. Some of the tension had eased, replaced by a sense of awe and possibility. Lorgar saw in their faces the flicker of understanding, the first steps toward a new way of thinking.
"Is not your very resurrection by my call, through the power of the Worldsoul, proof of this?" Lorgar asked, his voice rising with passion. "You have seen death, tasted its finality, yet you stand here today, alive and whole. This is not a gift from a god to his subjects; it is the result of our collective strength, our shared bond with the Worldsoul. We have tapped into the deeper truths of existence, and in doing so, we have defied the boundaries that once held us back."
Tiberius, who had stood quietly until now, stepped forward. His expression was contemplative, but there was still a fire in his eyes. "Lorgar, you speak of the potential within all of us, and I do not doubt that it is there. But the power you wield, the miracles you have performed, they are not mere possibilities. They are realities. And these realities point to something greater, something beyond what we once believed possible. If this is not proof of your divinity, then what is?"
Lorgar nodded, acknowledging the truth in Tiberius' words. "Yes, Tiberius, they are realities. But they are not the result of superiority. They are the result of knowledge, of understanding, of the willingness to explore the unknown. The power we wield is not a birthright; it is something we have earned through effort, through struggle. And it is something that you, too, can earn."
Tiberius shook his head slowly, a small smile on his lips. "But not everyone can wield that power, Lorgar. Not everyone can ascend to the heights you speak of. Not all men are made equal. And so, they look to you, to Thalassa, to the gods, for guidance, for protection."
"And I will guide them," Lorgar replied, his voice gentle but firm. "But not as a god. I will guide them as one who walks the same path, who faces the same struggles, who shares the same hopes and dreams. I do not seek to elevate myself above them, but to walk beside them. To show them that they, too, have the potential to become more than they are."
As Lorgar finished speaking, the quiet in the assembly was almost tangible, a silence pregnant with the weight of what had just been said. But Tiberius was not one to let such a moment pass unchallenged. He stepped forward, his voice clear and strong, cutting through the quiet like a blade.
"Lorgar," Tiberius began, his tone respectful but firm, "I ask you, who granted you your power? Who made you as you are?"
The question hung in the air, and the crowd shifted uneasily, their eyes flicking between Tiberius and Lorgar. It was a question that many had pondered in silence, one that had lingered in the shadows of their minds but had never been spoken aloud so directly.
Lorgar looked at Tiberius, his gaze steady, thoughtful. He did not respond immediately, but instead raised one large hand, holding it up in front of his face as though trying to stare through the flesh, to see beyond the physical form that he inhabited.
"I do not understand all that I am," Lorgar said slowly, his voice filled with a quiet introspection. "Indeed, I understand just enough to know how very much more there is to discover. But even that small amount makes it clear that I am no natural being. The organs I possess, the redundancies, the resistance to harm and pain that I pass to my sons, these things are not the product of mere evolution or chance. They are artificial, created with intent, with knowledge far beyond what we can comprehend. Most likely, they were designed to help me face the foes that threaten our world, such as the Shard of Winters, whom I have defeated with this power."
He paused, letting the weight of his words settle over the crowd. His eyes, usually so fierce and commanding, now seemed filled with a deep, almost melancholic understanding.
"I do not have final and absolute answers for you all," Lorgar continued, "but this I know to be true: the divinity within each of you is no less worthy of reverence than the divinity within me. Just as a fire is still a fire, whether or not one holds a magnifying glass to it, so too is the potential within each of you no less significant simply because it has not yet been fully realized."
Tiberius frowned, his brow furrowing as he considered Lorgar's words. "But if your power was granted to you, if you were created with intent, then does that not imply that there is a higher power, one that has shaped you, perhaps even one that has shaped all of us? And if such a power exists, does that not make it superior, more deserving of our worship and reverence than the potential within ourselves?"
Lorgar's gaze softened, and he nodded slightly, acknowledging the validity of Tiberius' point.
"It is possible," he conceded. "It is possible that there is a higher power, something beyond even my understanding, something that has set all of this in motion. But even if that is the case, what does it mean for us? Does it mean that we should submit, that we should cease striving to better ourselves, to reach for the stars? Or does it mean that we should continue on our path, seeking to understand, to grow, to become more than we are?"
He looked out at the crowd, his eyes searching the faces of his followers. "I believe that the latter is true. I believe that whatever higher power may exist, it does not wish for us to remain stagnant, to simply accept our place in the universe without question. I believe that we are meant to rise, to challenge, to push the boundaries of what is possible. And in doing so, we honor that higher power, if it exists, not by worshiping it, but by striving to reach the heights it has set before us."
Tiberius remained silent for a moment, his eyes narrowing as he weighed Lorgar's words. The hall was tense, the crowd waiting with bated breath to see how the debate would unfold.
Finally, Tiberius spoke, his voice measured. "You speak of striving, of reaching for the stars, and I do not disagree. But I fear that in your quest for understanding, you may lead us down a path that ignores the very real dangers of hubris. If we are not careful, we may find ourselves not rising to meet the divine, but instead, falling into chaos, consumed by our own ambition."
Lorgar's voice, deep and resonant, filled the shrine as he began to speak. "I have heard your concerns, and I understand the fears that have been brought to light. The path we walk is not an easy one, and it is natural to question, to seek clarity in times of uncertainty. But I want to remind you of something that I hold dear, something that has guided me through the darkest moments of my own journey."
He paused, allowing his words to sink in before continuing, his tone gentle but firm. "Know that you are not alone, just as I was not alone in my time of need. When I was at my lowest, when the weight of my destiny felt too heavy to bear, it was not my strength, my power, or my knowledge that saved me. It was the simple, human act of love and faith that my father showed me."
Lorgar's gaze softened as he recalled the memory, a rare vulnerability in his eyes. "My father did not use his talents in sorcery to guide me out of the darkness. He did not perform any great miracle to lift me up. No, he spoke to me as a father speaks to his son, with words of advice that came not from a place of divine power, but from the deep well of human experience. He did not speak to Lorgar the Light bringer, but to Lorgar his child. He told me to stop being a moody brat because he had faith in me, a parent's faith in their child."
He looked out at the crowd, his expression earnest and open. "There was nothing beyond mortal means in that interaction. Yet, it helped me more than anything he could have done with powers beyond the means of an average person. This act of humanity, in him and in me, mattered the most. It was a simple act of faith, one that did not require divinity, only love, and trust."
Lorgar took a deep breath, his voice growing stronger as he continued. "Every single one of you has the potential for greatness because you are already great. Every time you reach out to your fellows, every time you show kindness, compassion, and understanding, you build a better future, a single step at a time. Some may claim that only the divine can lead us to greatness, but to me, what you do in your everyday lives is much more powerful than any other miracle."
The crowd stirred, some nodding in agreement, others still uncertain, but all were listening intently.
"And Tiberius," Lorgar said, turning his gaze to the man who had challenged him so bravely, "even if I was somewhat irritated that you saw me as something I am not, I am proud of you for being willing to stand up for yourself and others against someone you consider a deity. This is what I meant by the strength of humanity, a desire to stand for our beliefs, to seek the truth even when it is difficult, even when it challenges the status quo."
Lorgar's voice grew more passionate as he continued, the fire of conviction burning bright in his eyes. "This is the path I wish for all of us to walk together. Not one where we place our faith blindly in those we deem superior, but one where we recognize the divine potential within ourselves. Where we understand that true strength does not come from the gods alone, but from the collective power of our humanity, from the bonds we share, the love we give, and the courage we show in the face of adversity."
He swept his gaze across the hall, taking in the faces of his people, his voice carrying the weight of his resolve. "The future is not written in the stars, nor is it dictated by the gods. It is written in our hearts, in our minds, in the choices we make every day. Do not seek divinity in the heavens above, seek it within yourselves, within the world around you. For that is where true power lies, not in the hands of a few, but in the collective strength of all."
Lorgar's final words echoed through the hall, a powerful reminder of the ideals he had striven to instill in his people. "We are all capable of greatness, not because we are divine, but because we are human. And it is our humanity that will guide us, that will light our way through the darkness, and that will build a future where we stand together, not as gods and mortals, but as equals, united in our shared purpose."
The clearing was silent for a moment, the weight of Lorgar's words settling over the crowd like a warm, comforting blanket. Then, slowly, a ripple of applause began to spread, growing louder and more fervent until it filled the entire space. The people of Colchis, moved by Lorgar's speech, found themselves united in a shared sense of purpose, a renewed faith not just in their leader, but in themselves.
Tiberius, standing among them, felt a deep sense of respect for Lorgar, for the man who had taken his challenge and turned it into a lesson for all. He nodded, acknowledging the truth in Lorgar's words, and joined in the applause, knowing that while their paths might differ, their goals were ultimately the same.
The applause gradually subsided, and the grand hall of Colchis fell into a contemplative silence. The people were moved, their hearts stirred by Lorgar's words, yet among them, Tiberius stood quietly, his mind still wrestling with the questions that had driven him to challenge Lorgar in the first place.
Lorgar's speech had been powerful, filled with conviction and wisdom, and it had reached the hearts of many. But for people like Tiberius, something still lingered, a doubt that refused to be soothed by even the most eloquent of words.
He had always been a seeker, a man driven by an insatiable thirst for truth, and now, that thirst led him to a decision that would take him far from the halls of Colchis.
As the crowd began to disperse, murmuring among themselves about the profound words they had heard, Tiberius stepped forward. He approached Lorgar, who was still standing in the center of the hall, speaking quietly with a few of his closest advisors. Sensing Tiberius's presence, Lorgar turned to him, a warm smile on his face.
"Tiberius," Lorgar said, his voice carrying a note of respect. "You have challenged me well today. Your words have sparked a conversation that will echo throughout Colchis for years to come."
Tiberius bowed his head slightly in acknowledgment but did not return the smile. His expression was thoughtful, his brow furrowed with the weight of his unresolved thoughts.
"Lorgar," he began, his tone measured and serious, "I have listened to your words, and I have seen the impact they have had on our people. I do not question your sincerity, nor do I doubt the wisdom you have shared with us today."
Lorgar studied him, his golden eyes reflecting a deep understanding of the inner conflict that Tiberius was grappling with.
"But?" Lorgar prompted gently, sensing that there was more to come.
Tiberius took a deep breath, gathering his thoughts before he spoke again.
"But I am not yet convinced," he admitted, his voice steady despite the uncertainty in his heart. "Your words have moved me, yes, but they have not settled the doubts that I carry within me. I have always sought the truth, and now, more than ever, I feel the need to find it for myself."
Lorgar nodded, his expression thoughtful. "And what do you intend to do, Tiberius?"
Tiberius looked up, meeting Lorgar's gaze with resolve.
"I intend to go on a journey of self-discovery," he declared. "I cannot simply accept what I have heard today, no matter how compelling it may be. I need to see the world beyond Colchis, to seek out the truths that lie beyond our borders. I need to understand for myself what it means to be human, to be divine, and to find my place in this vast, complex universe."
The shrine had emptied out by now, leaving the two men alone in their conversation. Lorgar listened intently, his respect for Tiberius growing with each word. It was not easy to admit doubt, especially in the face of such overwhelming conviction, and Lorgar admired the courage it took for Tiberius to speak his truth.
Tiberius continued, his voice tinged with a mixture of determination and humility. "I do not wish to offend you, Lorgar. You have done so much for our people, and I hold you in the highest regard. But I cannot ignore the call within me, the need to seek out answers that I fear I will not find if I remain here."
Lorgar's smile returned, but this time it was one of genuine warmth and understanding. "You do not offend me, Tiberius. In fact, I am proud of you for following your heart, for daring to seek the truth even when it leads you away from the safety of what you know. The path you are choosing is not an easy one, but it is a noble one, and I respect your decision."
Tiberius bowed his head again, grateful for Lorgar's understanding. "Thank you, Lorgar. I do not know where this journey will take me or what I will find, but I feel that it is something I must do."
"And when you return," Lorgar said, his tone lightening as a hint of amusement crept into his voice, "we will continue this debate. I look forward to hearing what you have discovered, and perhaps we will both be wiser for it."
Tiberius allowed himself a small smile at Lorgar's words.
"I would like that very much," he replied. "There is much that I still need to understand, and I hope that, when I return, I will have answers, not just for myself, but for our people as well."
Lorgar stepped forward, placing a hand on Tiberius' shoulder, a gesture of camaraderie and support. "May your journey be fruitful, Tiberius. Seek out the truth with all your heart, and know that you will always have a place here in Colchis, among those who respect your courage and your quest for understanding."
Tiberius felt a warmth in his chest at Lorgar's words, a reassurance that, despite their differences, he was not alone in his journey. "Thank you, Lorgar. I wish you the best as well, and I hope that our paths will cross again soon."
Lorgar laughed, a deep, resonant sound that echoed through the empty hall. "Oh, I am certain they will, Tiberius. The universe has a way of bringing us back to where we need to be. Go with my blessing, and may the truth you seek find you, wherever you may roam."
With that, Tiberius nodded one last time, a gesture of respect and farewell. He turned and began to walk away, the sound of his footsteps echoing softly in the vastness of the shrine. As he reached the exit, he paused for a moment, looking back at Lorgar, who stood watching him with a calm, steady gaze.
Their eyes met, and in that moment, there was an unspoken understanding between them, two men on different paths, but united by a shared commitment to the truth, to their people, and to the belief that the journey itself was as important as the destination.
Tiberius stepped out into the world beyond, ready to face the unknown, ready to discover the truths that lay hidden in the farthest corners of the galaxy. And as he walked away, he felt a sense of peace, knowing that whatever he found, whatever answers he uncovered, he would return to Colchis a wiser man, and the debate with Lorgar would continue, not as adversaries, but as fellow seekers of the truth.
Lorgar watched Tiberius go, a smile lingering on his lips. The journey ahead would be long and filled with challenges, but he knew that Tiberius had the strength and the resolve to face whatever lay ahead. And when the time came for their paths to cross again, Lorgar would be ready to listen, to learn, and to continue the conversation that had only just begun.
RESULT:
Inconclusive. You gave a great argument but used most of it to make up for the Nat 1 you rolled for the second event.
But the argument was good enough that you can complete the action, just that it will take time.
With regards to Tiberius, he is going on a Journey of self discovery and to find the Truth. He has true faith and is a Perpetual as well a XXXXXX. He also has a few other things going for him as well.
His story is what he believes, not necessarily what is true.
CHOICE:
[] Double the time taken for this action
–It will only be completed in Turn 11 but you get max loyalty
[] Finish this action next turn.
–It will be completed next turn but loyalty is 75%, faith will be divided and further action would need to be taken to unify the faith.
[X] Double the time taken for this action
We were bound to get bad RNG at some point. I think this is worth the AP to get right.
I... hesitate to make this critique since it could be seen as just complaining about losing, but I think it is worth saying: it's odd to change over to straight d100 for strategic level actions since none of our actual abilities apply or mitigate this. I mean just an example Lorgar has maximum precognition, there are gifts that allow re-rolls and I think charms as well, but none of them are designed to interact with this layer of the game so we remain at the mercy of very swing-y dice with only a +5.
We were bound to get bad RNG at some point. I think this is worth the AP to get right.
I... hesitate to make this critique since it could be seen as just complaining about losing, but I think it is worth saying: it's odd to change over to straight d100 for strategic level actions since none of our actual abilities apply or mitigate this. I mean just an example Lorgar has maximum precognition, there are gifts that allow re-rolls and I think charms as well, but none of them are designed to interact with this layer of the game so we remain at the mercy of very swing-y dice with only a +5.
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[X] Double the time taken for this action.