Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
So, in regards to extinct speices spirits. First of all, list of extinct North American species, and even just in the United States are depressingly large, and I am fairly sure far from complete. That there is a separate list of lists of recently extinct animals is even more depressing. Putting that aside, my thoughts the list of things I would be interested in seeing:
1) Whale spirits - whales are one of the species that are close to sapience, and their extinction and endangerment resonates with humanity and is embedded in popular culture strongly enough that their spirit should be strong. Whaling was a huge industry, and it collapsed quickly enough that there should be a whole bunch of stuff all bundled together, probably waiting to birth a fae lord of some kind. With appropriately Lovecraftian undertones. A whale god would be... of considerable might, and a good ally against fomorians, I think. And it just feels appropriately grand for some reason.
2) Dog and wolf spirits - there should be plenty enough of those. Dog spirits lingering on due to loyalty to humanity in hopes of helping them, and wolf ones due to how iconic they would be. Those should be good sources of empowerment for Lydia('s dogs - having a genuine dog / wolf god in her retinue would certainly be a trump card), and probably to Alphas.
3) Rodents / butterflies - go for that hivemind resurrection idea. It adds a layer of information security for us, if we secure alliance with it.
4) Cryptid / mystical species - I am fairly sure that there should be some mystical species, like hydras, for example, or a breed of lesser dragons, that are extinct.
This is definitely not a priority, but it's an interesting activity to explore, I think.
1) Whale spirits - whales are one of the species that are close to sapience, and their extinction and endangerment resonates with humanity and is embedded in popular culture strongly enough that their spirit should be strong. Whaling was a huge industry, and it collapsed quickly enough that there should be a whole bunch of stuff all bundled together, probably waiting to birth a fae lord of some kind. With appropriately Lovecraftian undertones. A whale god would be... of considerable might, and a good ally against fomorians, I think. And it just feels appropriately grand for some reason.
2) Dog and wolf spirits - there should be plenty enough of those. Dog spirits lingering on due to loyalty to humanity in hopes of helping them, and wolf ones due to how iconic they would be. Those should be good sources of empowerment for Lydia('s dogs - having a genuine dog / wolf god in her retinue would certainly be a trump card), and probably to Alphas.
3) Rodents / butterflies - go for that hivemind resurrection idea. It adds a layer of information security for us, if we secure alliance with it.
4) Cryptid / mystical species - I am fairly sure that there should be some mystical species, like hydras, for example, or a breed of lesser dragons, that are extinct.
This is definitely not a priority, but it's an interesting activity to explore, I think.
Getting the council involved in it was a political football for them that divided the old wizards from the young ones. I don't think they got formally involved, but he was rabble rousing about it and young wizards were slowly rallying around the idea. We got all that context from his discussion with Lucio on it and a few other snippets in that same books.
Which I think is enough to demonstrate that the wizards treat this like we treat climate change in real life.
I recall the same quote, and you're not wrong about economic warfare being complicated. My point was just that they're almost universally coming at it from a different angle.do agree that this is how they made their money.
Arguably, thats how any significant supernatural player has made a lot of their money; the simple magic of compound interest would take $1 million dollars invested at 5% interest in a stable asset in 1800 CE all the way to $17.3 billion in 2000 CE.
Buy and hold. Diamond hands.
I head-canoned thats how Arawn survived being on the run for 90 years.
But active management and weaponization like the White Council is said to have done in the age of nationstates, money laundering and transparency regulations and FINCEN is not something you can do at one remove. Especially given how fast a lot of economic things can move these days; events like Black Monday do happen.
Nor is it something you can do without trusted people who wont narc or raise an alarm.
And while I cant find the exact quote offhand, I remember Butcher straight up saying this was something the Council did in the Vampire War, that they had economic specialists with centuries of experience for doing precisely this.
Thats not just something that requires usual money management, you need an actual economic warfare section.
First off, number of them made their bones when economic conflict meant acting like the East India Company. They probably do the more modern stuff, but I think an magical economist who lived through the Industrial Revolution, colonial era, and rise of the stock market has a very different view of how to hurt people with money than a mundane broker.
Secondly, if the system is rigged to benefit you then less active management is necessary because you've got smart people serving your goals without needing to know why or micromanage every "assault". You set some policies and call in some favors, then all the business sociopaths whose most profitable activity is doing what you want figure out how to make it happen.
I suspect they are actually pretty deeply involved in the actual operations, but the trick would be to nest themselves at a strategic level. Provide medium to long term information and let the experts at computer backed trading do tactics.
It's not like we need to start right this second on handing them out. The only sane way to do this is in careful stages.
Vote closed.
Arc 13 Post 37: Of Law and Letters
Of Law and Letters
10th of February 2007 A.D.
You stop for a moment and think about it, really think about it, Harry isn't just being eloquent here, he's being honest. The last thing the world needs is a war between me and the White Council... It's almost enough to table the whole thing, but something stops you, the memory of bouncing around occult shops looking for answers that weren't there even while you were messing up your head and Rosie's and Nelson's. You still don't know what happened to him. And I'm afraid to find out, you admit to yourself. I'm luckier than I had any right to be... Shut up Usum! you interject before the demon can get going. If there is a way to help people who've already stumbled to pick themselves up I who got a hand up am the last one who should be saying no.
"It's not means to circumvent the Laws. It's means against the corruption brought by breaking the Laws. Murder is murder, no matter if done with a bullet or a fireball. Rape is rape, no matter if done with drugs or mind altering magic. All should be punished accordingly. But if this allows more leeway in punishment? If at least one in ten of those who kill in self-defense will be spared the sword? If just one more law-breaker feels genuine regret? It's worth it."
Harry's expression hardens, too bad for him you don't play fair.
"It was worth it for me."
The objections die unspoken between his lips. Instead he says: "Don't think this is something you can just talk yourself out of Molly, what you are proposing is a change to the basic function of the White Council. The sharing of ideas and resources, mutual protection, every other function of the Council is secondary to enforcing the Seven Laws. If it weren't for that the Council probably wouldn't even exist in its present form. I'll see what I can do but..."
Lydia clears her throat. "We are counting pigeons before they are hatched, that is frowned on, yes?" The joke does not land but she soldiers on. "Breathe life again to these birds, bind them to one shadowed in soul, have something to show for it besides promises before you set it before the wizards' moot."
Harry's expression morphs from torn to horrified. "You would be party to concealing a warlock from the council at that point, an accessory."
Your mind goes to the Denarians again. They count warlocks among their ranks, old and powerful ones at that, but you've never heard of the Council sending wardens after them sword in hand. There's an obvious exception to the rule, one that makes your stomach clench unpleasantly and yet makes perfect sense: Power. A seat at the table is a foot in the door. For now you do not share that thought, though Lydia at least might have guessed it from the look she throws you on the way back.
***
12th of February 2007 A.D.
Two days later you get a call from Father Forthil while you are riding around inside Porter's new train self... just as he had just figured out that he could use his new mastery of steam to imitate an old time train whistle.
"I'm going to need a bit of quiet!" you shout.
A somewhat sheepish silence falls allowing you to take the call.
"We have records of a Father John Murphy being invited to finish his seminary studies in the United states as many were in those days. Even the Bishop of Chicago at the time James Duggan followed that path. But then something odd happens in 1867 he receives an invitation to come to Chicago he refuses outright and goes instead to Saint Luis where he established a parish for two years after which there was a short note sent to the Vatican claiming a visitation of the kind that should not be made public. Generally speaking in cases like this where the person reporting the miracle believes that it was not meant for any but themselves, no deeper study is made because there is no need to establish if it is 'worthy of belief' by the laity. You know as well as I that there is a time for keeping such things unspoken Molly. But still all of us are eager to account for what glimpses of the Divine may be given to us so generally there's some record especially since the Bishop of Saint Luis at the time claimed he personally believed in the veracity of the miracle."
"Could it have just been lost?" you ask, mind whirling over the possibilities.
"Or been made lost," he says grimly. "Either way John Murphy came to Chicago that year and was made priest of the Parish of Saint Patrick's, Old Saint Patrick's we call it now, which is unusual in and of itself. He died during the fire of 1871, or he was presumed to, his remains were never found. His family buried an empty coffin. "
"Family?" you prompt surprised.
"His siblings Thomas, Edward and Kate Murphy had by then made the journey over from Ireland with their children and settled in Chicago. Their family is still around today and you know at least one of them."
"Detective Murphy? I'd say small world, but something tells me 'God works in mysterious ways' might be more apt."
"Both can be true at the same time," Father Forthil replies serenely. "I'm sorry I could not be of more help than that, but if you need my help to talk to someone, maybe one of the older members of the family to get them to talk or look for documents I'm open to help. I wouldn't call these kinds of revelations happy, but they are needed just the same and I have some experience softening the blows."
What do you do next?
[] Go talk to Detective Murphy
-[] Take Father Forthil's offer (optional)
[] You have a name for the priest and some names for his family, on its own that's enough for two questions
-[] Write in
[] Write in
OOC: Not the best of luck, but you have a lead.
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Yeah, so the pigeon thing is obviously delicate and should be moved on slowly. There's nothing stopping us from doing prep work prior to actually making anything that crosses a line while we build credibility.
I think the reaction will be much less negative if the birds are elements of a system instead of flying hand grenades.
I think the reaction will be much less negative if the birds are elements of a system instead of flying hand grenades.
For anyone wondering, those are common Irish names for the 19th century, I know they do not sound very Irish to modern ears but people had not gotten into the novel names yes.
- Location
- Who knows?
Honestly I'm impressed they managed to track down this specific John Murphy when there's probably like dozens in the same metro area at the same time. Hell I'd even put money down on multiple John Murphys in seminary at the same time.
They looked backwards from one who died on that date in 1871. The Great Fire for all its scale only killed an estimated 300 people.
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- Location
- Germany
Same article says it's, as usual, the English's fault for anglicizing the names.
Oh yeah, but those were the names at the time, those anglicized names are what you would find in records.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Definitely should avoid deploying this sort of thing enmasse Harry Potter owl style until at least the traitor issue is dealt with and after the Red Court faction is decapitated with the only thing left being cleanup. The last thing we need is the WC trying to contest us while the RC war is still ongoing.
In the most ideal scenario we'd get them in a position where a good portion of their members aren't only concerned with making an enemy of a nation, that have displayed their capabilities against the RC but don't want to give up a valuable ally. If we were to 'deploy' these in some fashion soon after the Red Court war the WC would be lower on numbers aswell which would make them even less likely to turn to violence and possibly set off another war.
I would appreciate a citation if you have the time.
Because my recollection is that the Council was simply not involved at all by design, not that there was a political football of any sort. Harry did not do politics; it was a notable blind spot of his prior to his death.
Furthermore, the Paranet is a North America-only thing. Lower 48 states, to be exact.
1) I dont really agree.
Thats a lot like saying a soldier that fought in the Thirty Years War and the American Civil War would remain successful using those same tactics in the modern day. Too much has changed.
Modern economic management fundamentals are pretty different from a time when forced labor was cutting edge economic practice, and we understand how it works a lot better than merchants in the 16th century.
The guys who are running things on that end for the Council will have to have the mental flexibility to keep up with the times
For a different analogy: a medical wizard like Listens to Wind is not going to be operating like a 17th century doctor either.
Not if he's kept up to date with advancements in knowledge and practice.
===
2)That would only be true in normal day to day, not during wartime.
They are operating against other supernatural factions too, who also have a deep bench of talent of their own, both internally and in human minions they can suborn.
The system being rigged to your benefit is not something exclusive to the White Council, and unlike the White Council the Red Court actually have the ability to exert direct political control in a good section of the world as well as indirect economic influence.
===
3)Strategic level control goes without saying.
But all of that requires trusted people to implement those orders who understand why they are being done, instead of just dumb cutouts who might report suspicious financial activity to FINCEN.
And none of this is unprecedented elsewhere.
The Venator Umborum, the Hunters of Shadows, are longtime White Council allies, made up mostly of mortals. The Archive might have established them as a cover for True Venator cells, but in their day to day they are trusted to do stuff as critical as guarding a site where one shoggoth was sealed.
I question its success possibility in the first place.
This is a fundamental premise of the White Council as it exists, a figurative third rail of Council jurisprudence according to the Merlin in the first chapter of Proven Guilty.
You'd frankly have had better success with something that fixed the damage in lawbreakers, than with something that allowed people to break the Laws in the first place.
COMMENTARY
So Murphy clan. Called it.
And it looks like Father Murphy was touched by an angel.
Timeline suggests he came to Chicago in 1869, and died in 1871. Two years.
St Patrick's is presumably Old St Patrick's , which is Chicago's first Irish Catholic Church.
Old St. Patrick’s: Chicago’s First Irish Catholic Church - Chicago History Museum
For St. Patrick’s Day, CHM curator of religion and community history Rebekah Coffman looks at Old St. Patrick’s Church as a monument to Chicago’s longstanding Irish community presence and how … Learn More
www.chicagohistory.org
Old St. Patrick's Church (Chicago) - Wikipedia
Founded in 1846 at 700 West Adams Street. Survived the 1871 fire.
Is currently Chicago's oldest public building.
A scene inside it is probably a relevant focus for Father Murphy.
VOTE
[X] Go talk to Detective Murphy
-[X] Take Father Forthil's offer (optional)
VOTE
Talk to the family.
After we talk to the family, if necessary we can visit the church; Old St Patrick's current building has been at the same location for around 150 years by now.
Molly can walk inside, and use that scene as a Father Murphy focus; since he was an early parish priest, it will work.
But first, we need to talk to the family to narrow down the leads.
And a scene with the family might be a relevant Crown focus anyway.
Deliberately not voting for the internet search.
Because the Denarians have enough reach that I dont necessarily want to risk alerting them unnecessarily.
[X] Go talk to Detective Murphy
-[X] Take Father Forthil's offer (optional)
VOTE
Talk to the family.
After we talk to the family, if necessary we can visit the church; Old St Patrick's current building has been at the same location for around 150 years by now.
Molly can walk inside, and use that scene as a Father Murphy focus; since he was an early parish priest, it will work.
But first, we need to talk to the family to narrow down the leads.
And a scene with the family might be a relevant Crown focus anyway.
Deliberately not voting for the internet search.
Because the Denarians have enough reach that I dont necessarily want to risk alerting them unnecessarily.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
What constitutes as success to you in this regard? I think there's a disconnect here.
Harry, Harry, Harry....
Haven't you realized it yet?
This isn't about what YOU can do.
It's about what Exalt Molly can do.
And the answer is: "anything she wants".
Sorry, but this sounds like paranoia. Extreme paralyzing paranoia at that. Not only is there no basis for this, there's no real way to test this, and nothing can be done about this. If they can do this, it's futile to do anything online.
This I strongly disagree with.
But, ok, let's see how we can sweeten the deal. I think I have an idea. While exalted craft surprisingly doesn't have a way to treat derangements, we can, in fact, give the council something:
4 dot Fascination
The Splendor takes the form of something that is evocative of the fantastic. It might be a child's
toy, a brightly-decorated banner, a monster or carnival mask, or a treasure chest. It might be a
kaleidoscope, or a bundle of bright balloons. This Element defines the Splendor's physical form
and gives it a character, and that character is aligned with the power of the Dreaming. Other
Elements may draw upon this fact.
The Splendor stands out as a powerful work of magic when seen with chimerical eyes or mystic
scrutiny, but it seems nigh-impossible to credit it with any specific significance if observed with
purely mundane senses. Even when presented with compelling evidence that there's something
weird about the object, anyone who hasn't made a magical survey of the Splendor must make a
Willpower roll against difficulty (4 + Splendor's rating) to accept such a conclusion.
As an Adornment, it raises the difficulty to affect the user with hostile works of Glamour by one.
As the basis for a Fascination, it may have one minor impossible feature such as floating in
defiance of gravity, reflecting people's true selves when looked into, or aging backwards in time.
toy, a brightly-decorated banner, a monster or carnival mask, or a treasure chest. It might be a
kaleidoscope, or a bundle of bright balloons. This Element defines the Splendor's physical form
and gives it a character, and that character is aligned with the power of the Dreaming. Other
Elements may draw upon this fact.
The Splendor stands out as a powerful work of magic when seen with chimerical eyes or mystic
scrutiny, but it seems nigh-impossible to credit it with any specific significance if observed with
purely mundane senses. Even when presented with compelling evidence that there's something
weird about the object, anyone who hasn't made a magical survey of the Splendor must make a
Willpower roll against difficulty (4 + Splendor's rating) to accept such a conclusion.
As an Adornment, it raises the difficulty to affect the user with hostile works of Glamour by one.
As the basis for a Fascination, it may have one minor impossible feature such as floating in
defiance of gravity, reflecting people's true selves when looked into, or aging backwards in time.
This Splendor damns its targets to futile toil. Name a roll consisting of (Attribute) + (Ability) and
a specialty. Afflicted targets automatically fail this roll whenever they attempt it. No matter what
the dice say, they always generate zero successes. Alternately, a more mundane task can be
selected, such as "waking up on time," "using a fork," or "dressing yourself." The maximum
duration this curse can last (assuming it doesn't abate because the target fulfilled some condition
built into the Splendor) is one day for a 1-2 dot Splendor, one week for a 3-dot Splendor, one
month for a 4-dot Splendor, and one year for a 5-dot Splendor.
a specialty. Afflicted targets automatically fail this roll whenever they attempt it. No matter what
the dice say, they always generate zero successes. Alternately, a more mundane task can be
selected, such as "waking up on time," "using a fork," or "dressing yourself." The maximum
duration this curse can last (assuming it doesn't abate because the target fulfilled some condition
built into the Splendor) is one day for a 1-2 dot Splendor, one week for a 3-dot Splendor, one
month for a 4-dot Splendor, and one year for a 5-dot Splendor.
The Splendor is loathe to relinquish its hold on those it claims. Select one Element of the
Splendor whose effects last for a limited time. That Element's maximum duration is increased by
one category (from one scene to one day, one day to one week, etc). If the duration is already
"one year," the Element can be rendered permanent.
Splendor whose effects last for a limited time. That Element's maximum duration is increased by
one category (from one scene to one day, one day to one week, etc). If the duration is already
"one year," the Element can be rendered permanent.
A heavy book, with seemingly parchment pages, albeit made from a skin of no earthly animal, when one first opens it, they are presented with a comprehensive set of the Laws of magic. No matter their native language, or if they can read at all, in fact, no matter if they have eyes to read in the first place, the meaning of what is written in the book is perfectly comprehensible and clear, with no room for misunderstanding or willful rules lawyering. If, after having read them, the reader voluntarily signs their agreement with the Laws in blood (1 level of bashing damage inflicted), then the true purpose, and function of the book reveal themselves. From the moment their blood touches the page, they are no longer capable of breaking the Laws they put themselves under. This is not mind control, or a geas, or a curse. This is a permanent absolute effect, akin to the law of nature itself.
Only the master of the book can see the list of signatures, and, should the impossible happen, and the signatory somehow break the absolute effect they consigned themselves to, will be immediately made aware of it.
Only the master of the book can see the list of signatures, and, should the impossible happen, and the signatory somehow break the absolute effect they consigned themselves to, will be immediately made aware of it.
Give them this alongside pigeons.
The problem with fixing the damage to Lawbreakers is that people are fragile and derangement are very unpleasant, these ones being soul deep. The closest thing you have encountered to fixing the damage is Silk being high on vampire venom. False Spring Beacon which you guys still do not have would also work since that is basically a lie told to the universe with such confidence that it can undo any curse... for Essence days at least.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
@DragonParadox Errors.
Needs capitalization.
Need "to" in between selves and workshop.
Need either "a" between many and lost or hikers should be plural.
Should be "while" or "whilst" for the second error.
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