What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?


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Also, as a disclaimer, I am operating under the assumption that half of Voxx Primus will die even if you have the perfect solution due to hostile Action by the Free Duchy going 5/5 Dogmatic tbh. They aren't going to let you grab their primary recruitment world from them without making it hurt.

This is very grim, but it does make it easier for us to hit our goal.

Bet. Alright people we have a goal. We have a few billions deaths in the revolt, relocate the rest across worlds until we hit 200 Billion and then do the actions to clean up the Hive world via asking the Plants to help us with that, a write in regarding research into this stuff, and lastly a Song designed to heal and recover. I mean, 40 actions is an ask but that can be cut down via creative write in's.

[X] [Voxx Primuse Afterplan] Plan: Practical Considerations

Well, half the population is going to die. So we'd really have to move 150 billion people around the federation. Seems like repairing the biosphere is on the horizon for us.

Re: The Kin Laws, I'd like a clarification on the rights and responsibilities of a 'trail period Kin', and I'm not sure why the standard one-century timeframe already constitutionally mandated for joining the Federation should require any augmentation.

And...my counter proposal.

[Kin Laws] Any Protectorate which has been a member of the Federation for no shorter than a century shall have the right to claim Kin status, which shall be granted within five years unless rejected by a Polity-wide Council within that time frame. The right to claim Kin status may also be extended to any Protectorate not younger than fifty years, at the discretion of a Polity-wide Council, for extraordinary service in war and peace.

I agree.

[X] [Kin Laws] Any Protectorate which has been a member of the Federation for no shorter than a century shall have the right to claim Kin status, which shall be granted within five years unless rejected by a Polity-wide Council within that time frame. The right to claim Kin status may also be extended to any Protectorate not younger than fifty years, at the discretion of a Polity-wide Council, for extraordinary service in war and peace.
 
I think that a lot of what the plan Practical Considerations is promising is too specific? Like, committing specifically to making Andromedas is... why?

This is a Constitutional convention, there's a limit to the level of exact detail. Our planners can in fact figure out what they wanna do with that and how.

Obviously I like the part of the plan that is just my plan, but other than the debatable point about Space Stations, a lot of the changes feel sort of... no duh? Like they feel things that are actually instead just write-in actions we should put on the map?
 
[X] [Voxx Primuse Afterplan] Plan: A Balanced Breakfast
[X] [Yeeni] The Yeeni's construction and continued deployment of their Scout Cruiser Spirit of Discovery is indicative of the 'above and beyond' spirit of their species and should be a valid consideration for Kinship, especially when considered alongside the large active Yeeni contingents within our military apparatus. Neither of these actions are things required by a 'Good Protectorate taking their role seriously,' all that requires is paying your taxes on time and not causing problems. The Yeeni are actively seeking out involvement in wider Federation affairs, and have been doing so for an extended period of time. Their engineers are a core and crucial component in the running of our largest warships, the Leo Heavy Cruisers, and the Spirit of Discovery has been responsible for finding not one, not two, but dozens of abandoned precursor starships which could provide Star Child only knows what kinds of scientific advancement once grants are approved to study them. As such, though they have not performed anything so dramatic as our Kil'drabi siblings stand alongside us against a foreign foe, I believe that the Yeeni have demonstrated the desire, will, and strength of character necessary to be called our Kin.
 
[X] [Voxx Primuse Afterplan] Plan: A Balanced Breakfast
[X] [Yeeni] The Yeeni's construction and continued deployment of their Scout Cruiser Spirit of Discovery is indicative of the 'above and beyond' spirit of their species and should be a valid consideration for Kinship, especially when considered alongside the large active Yeeni contingents within our military apparatus. Neither of these actions are things required by a 'Good Protectorate taking their role seriously,' all that requires is paying your taxes on time and not causing problems. The Yeeni are actively seeking out involvement in wider Federation affairs, and have been doing so for an extended period of time. Their engineers are a core and crucial component in the running of our largest warships, the Leo Heavy Cruisers, and the Spirit of Discovery has been responsible for finding not one, not two, but dozens of abandoned precursor starships which could provide Star Child only knows what kinds of scientific advancement once grants are approved to study them. As such, though they have not performed anything so dramatic as our Kil'drabi siblings stand alongside us against a foreign foe, I believe that the Yeeni have demonstrated the desire, will, and strength of character necessary to be called our Kin.
 
Actually have a better idea, we'll make a Light Freighter design that serves as a "Ferry" for local commerce. Easier on our economy and we can have it double up as a cargo hauler in its own right.
 
[] [Light Freighter] Canis Minor-class Light Freighter
-[] Length
- 7.000 Meters
-[] Width - 1.400 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 1.2 Gravities
-[] Armor - Single Hull
-[] Shields - Two Emitters
-[] Weapons -Unarmed
-[] Equipment - Hymns of the Machines/Large Mobile Civilian Manufactory/Medium Civilian Transportation Hold/Medical Deployment Division (-25 DP)

No fluff on this yet, but it plays a useful role in peacetime as a major cargo hauler and passenger ship while also being able to drag ten civilian ships with it through the Warp, while also doubling up as a hospital and emergency-response vessel in case of disaster as well. In wartime... Well, it's not a warship, certainly, but it can definitely bring humanitarian workers, manage evacuations, bring and fabricate supplies, and handle medical disasters with it. Sure, this isn't going to save a Hive World, but nothing in our power can do that at present. The point is that this is just really useful, especially with new planet integration.
 
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Shit, I dunno? 200~300 billion?


Also, as a disclaimer, I am operating under the assumption that half of Voxx Primus will die even if you have the perfect solution due to hostile Action by the Free Duchy going 5/5 Dogmatic tbh. They aren't going to let you grab their primary recruitment world from them without making it hurt.
Huh, not bad and I think that would be enough. 15 actions to shift around half the population into stations and the relocate the rest spread out across our planets. Its not a bad idea.

Oh. well shit, that kinda kills much tension and seemingly handwaves it but this is an Imperium Remnant and a 5/5 Dogmatic. So it is in character and annoying so for them to pull that kind of shit. So long as we stop them from actually cracking the Planet or something. So around 300 Billion if we don't seize the planet in the turn the revolt kicks off, more manageable in that case.

a bit late so i kind of skimmed what everyone was saying but I'm just gonna post my thoughts on the food problem

so the sewers on a hive city is full of human waste, corpses, a bunch of chemicals & toxins, etc. assuming certain sections of the plumbing is large enough (should be to handle that amount of waste) effectively be entire ecosystems, what if we use our cloning tech and some genetic modifications to create an organism to filter out toxins?

could we create a species of bivalves that filter the particulate wastes of humans to sustain themselves, use the metals to help build their shells? any thing they can't use can we incased with aragonite, conchiolin and the metals they will be using to encase them as pearls. people can heat shellfish so there's that as well.

we can then introduce certain aquatic edible plants along the bivalves , maybe some filter feeding plankton (& zooplankton) along with engineered fishes to eat them and keep the population in check, then have our infiltrators manage the fish population by eating them? some biomass can be left to make piles large enough to be small islands in massive sewer pipes, where plants withe roots could keep the new soil together where farming (that isn't underwater) possible; i don't know if hunting is a good idea but with how hivers are probably eating rats and whatever they can get already . . .

turning the deep sewers into an aquaponics project seems to handle the food problem
Huh, going Biological solutions with that one huh? I mean if we could do that the Bi-valves filtering out the wastes would be a good thing. Would basically auto-run and we don't have to keep oversight.

It is my understanding that a typical hive-city is comprised of the following:
-The underhive at the lowest levels - essentially an unpoliced and unserviced no-man's-land that has been abandoned by official authorities. Low population, because scarce resources.
-The lower hive above it - an industrial hellscape where the majority of the population resides, and is engaged in back-breaking blue collar work.
-The upper hive above it - the place where the white collar work gets done.
-The spire at the top - where the nobility and their servants live, with the former benefitting from insanely luxurious conditions. Very low population, relative to living space.
OH is that how it is? So did start actually start in the UnderHive or was it Lower Hive then? Whelp I understand the terms now.

I think...yes. As far as I'm concerned, a century of good service was more than enough trial period.
Ehhhh, I guess in the context of the Quest but still want to keep that above and beyond what is expected/required requirement.
 
Because Choirs are still a limited resource and if we're going to make a new ship class that requires them, I want it to do more than just one thing.

They're not that limited a resource, and that "do more than one thing" means that making ten of them that are largely going to serve the role of guiding commercial vessels, costs 4x the FP.

Like I feel like it'd be easier to just split off the functions?
 
They're not that limited a resource, and that "do more than one thing" means that making ten of them that are largely going to serve the role of guiding commercial vessels, costs 4x the FP.

Every new Song we develop is going to be another call on them, and while they're expanding nicely, that's not going to hold up forever.
 
Every new Song we develop is going to be another call on them, and while they're expanding nicely, that's not going to hold up forever.

I mean...I feel like it will? Hold up forever, I mean.

The number of Choirs we have scales with our population-we get way more per turn now because we're a pretty sizable society. I was assuming that Cooky isn't tracking the age of our Choirs, so each one we have represents a new 'line' of Choir established within the Federation whose little micro-culture will be maintained by new members who are trained to replace ones who pass away for whatever reason-the 'death' of a Choir representing all 5 members of that Choir perishing at once before new members can be inducted and taught the traditions, and so that little micro-psyker-culture and all its minute things being lost.

So, the rate at which we acquire Choirs really should only increase as time goes on and our population grows, so them being able to fill more roles within society seems reasonable enough.
 
[X] [Voxx Primuse Afterplan] Plan: A Balanced Breakfast
[X] [Kin Laws] Extraordinary deeds are to be rewarded, but so is loyal and consistent work. If a protectorate performs ably for 100 years, they are to be given a 25 year trial period as kin, observed closely for problems. At the end of this period, should there be no major problems, they shall be kin in full. Obviously, extraordinary deeds (as with the Kir'dabi) can shorten or remove this constraint.
 
[X] [Yeeni] While the Yeeni have (arguably) not preformed the "extraordinary deeds" required of them, they have shown that they are enthusiastic and competent as they walk in the Star Child's light. So I say we give them the opportunity. Let them serve in first line military positions, let them learn our crafts, and let them take the orders. Perhaps not so freely as true kin… yet. And, should they handle such ably? Then make them kin in full. They have given us a century of companionship, hard work and faith. We can extend this much trust. (Essentially give them a trial period as kin, say 25 years (because Star child) and if no issues crop up then they're kin in full).

[X] [Kin Laws] Extraordinary deeds are to be rewarded, but so is loyal and consistent work. If a protectorate performs ably for 100 years, they are to be given a 25 year trial period as kin, observed closely for problems. At the end of this period, should there be no major problems, they shall be kin in full. Obviously, extraordinary deeds (as with the Kir'dabi) can shorten or remove this constraint.
 
[] [Light Freighter] Canis Minor-class Light Freighter
-[] Length
- 7.000 Meters
-[] Width - 1.400 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 1.2 Gravities
-[] Armor - Single Hull
-[] Shields - Two Emitters
-[] Weapons -Unarmed
-[] Equipment - Hymns of the Machines/Large Mobile Civilian Manufactory/Medium Civilian Transportation Hold/Medical Deployment Division (-25 DP)

No fluff on this yet, but it plays a useful role in peacetime as a major cargo hauler and passenger ship while also being able to drag ten civilian ships with it through the Warp, while also doubling up as a hospital and emergency-response vessel in case of disaster as well. In wartime... Well, it's not a warship, certainly, but it can definitely bring humanitarian workers, manage evacuations, bring and fabricate supplies, and handle medical disasters with it. Sure, this isn't going to save a Hive World, but nothing in our power can do that at present. The point is that this is just really useful, especially with new planet integration.

I get what you're doing here, but I think this saves a few design points at the cost of a lot of build points. I'd much rather design the Rustbucket and then make the Canis freighter that just has a larger cargo hold instead of the Hymns of the Machines. Much more flexible, greater overall function for the same number of build points, and a hell of a lot easier to just toss together a lot more intersteller transit capability.
 
the Canis would lead the convoys but the rest of the ships do not need the hymns or a medical division so can spend the 15 DP elsewhere:
In this case larger passenger holds, a major cargo hold and as there where 2 points left over that that point, a single hangar for self defence and mining shuttles and a internal factory.
A single design action can design both and a building 9 Hauler's and one Canis is 30 FP out of the 36 + Kin bonus we get per action

[] [Light Freighter] Hauler Class
-[] Length - 7.000 Meters
-[] Width - 1.400 Meters
-[] Acceleration -1.2 Gravities
-[] Armor - Single Hull
-[] Shields - Two Emitters
-[] Weapons - Medium Hangars - [Mixed] (1)
-[] Equipment
--[] Large Emergency Relief Cargo Holds - Holds everything a population of a billion experiencing a natural or artificial disaster may need to survive. For a very short time. A week, at most.(9)
--[] Large Mobile Civilian Manufactory - A large manufactory designed to produce sophont aid goods, such as tents, medicine, and construction equipment, with materials sourced locally.(5)
--[] Large Civilian Transportation Hold - Enough space and Life Support Systems to transport Twenty million souls through the Warp. Neither comfortable nor luxurious, but better than dying. Includes shuttle bays and bulky transportation craft to facilitate smooth boarding.(9)
--[] Enhanced Supply Generation - Internal factories and mining shuttles capable of gathering and manufacturing limited maintenance supplies for a ship on extended patrols. (1)

@HeroCooky would 2x Canis, 12x Hauler, 1 x Carrier, 5x Frigate escort be a valid SBG that costs 1 AP to build(and one to design)
 
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Two things I want to say, both completely unrelated to each other.

Firstly, we can always upgrade the Songs we've already made by improving the individual Melodies, so they might become more powerful or more efficient, maybe instead of 10 ships per Andromeda it might become 20, maybe we'll need fewer Choirs, improved travel speeds, etc.

Secondly, I was thinking about the Lamenters and their curse and I was wondering, could we break that effect or shield them from it with a powerful enough Song?



Lamenter Feel-Good Song
(Protection, Family, Struggle, Hope, Justice, Song)

Protection -> Family both to protect the Lamenters from their curse and since they're all supposed to be related as Brothers.

Struggle -> Hope to overcome their past struggles and persevere like they have always done.

Justice -> Song is a cry for justice to the Warp/Star-Child, considering they've suffered enough and more than atoned for any previous sins they might have committed.

We'll probably have to improve the individual Melodies beyond just the initial stage to get it strong enough to break a millenia-old curse or whatever else is causing their ill luck.



@HeroCooky Is this something you'd allow or think is feasible?
 
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I think that a lot of what the plan Practical Considerations is promising is too specific? Like, committing specifically to making Andromedas is... why?
It's a restructing of the entire interstellar civilian economy, a change in the roles and obligations of the choirs, and a decadal construction project. It's not a minor thing that can be handled later, it's something that requires massive coordination, now.
Do the warp ships involved need to be Andromeda's? No, I just used the name because we don't have any other vessels that serve that role.

(Also, if you're complaining about specifics, the birth control thing is just a specific write-in for Vox primus to take, and so is space station construction. Your fifth point is not even a write in action, it's a regular action. None of those really requires a constitutional amendment).

Like, comparing the two plans :

A Balanced Breakfast
- Should be a write in : Space station construction
- Diplomatic outreach, : Irritia
- Constitutional Mandate : Additional housing construction
- Should be a write-in : Birth control on Vox Primus
- Regulat Action-ish : Sing a Song (Choose at least Three below.)

Practical Consideration
-
Constitutional alteration : Reorganizing the entire basis of the interstellar economy to a new means of transportation
- Diplomatic outreach, : Irritia
-
Regular action-ish? : Qulach's forge + research
- Should be a write-in : Birth control on Vox Primus
- Should be a write in : Vox Primus Choirs

As you see, both plans have the exact same problem of specificity and write-in's rather than broad policies.

And honestly, when dealing with specifics, I'd rather have a plan that calls for a specific investment in transportation infrastructure (which we know we'd need regardless of whether we try to help the people of Vox Primus locally, have them migrate, give them food, try to take over the local agri worlds, and so on), than a plan that locks in not just to one specific way of helping them (migration), but goes even further and tries to lock in the exact way and destination of where the resettlement will occur. Like, if anything is too specific, it's that.

We should only decide between resettling on planets, spacestations or elsewhere later, when we can actually see the relative cost of all those options.
 
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I was assuming that Cooky isn't tracking the age of our Choirs,
No, but age is factoring into how quickly you gain new Choirs. Hint: its tapering off.
@HeroCooky would 2x Canis, 12x Hauler, 1 x Carrier, 5x Frigate escort be a valid SBG that costs 1 AP to build(and one to design)
If you can Design and Construct them with 1 AP/no more that 1.6 AP for SBG Production, you can.
@HeroCooky Is this something you'd allow or think is feasible?
Nope. Lamenters stay Cursed.
 
It's a restructing of the entire interstellar civilian economy, a change in the roles and obligations of the choirs, and a decadal construction project. It's not a minor thing that can be handled later, it's something that requires massive coordination, now.
Do the warp ships involved need to be Andromeda's? No, I just used the name because we don't have any other vessels that serve that role.
I like your plan better than Laurent's, because I agree that we'll really need interstellar cargo ships to feed Voxx, and it'll likely have other upsides beyond that: interstellar cargo is what grants us ISCs, after all, so granting internal trade access to Choirs for navigation is bound to be excellent for our prosperity and industry, by lowering the cost of shipping between worlds.
He got a point that Andromedas aren't the best for this, though. I like the plans floating around for Freighters, and they'll do a better job than military ships like Andromedas. Would you consider changing your plan for this?
 
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[X] [Voxx Primuse Afterplan] Plan: Practical Considerations

[X] [Kin Laws] Extraordinary deeds are to be rewarded, but so is loyal and consistent work. If a protectorate performs ably for 100 years, they are to be given a 25 year trial period as kin, observed closely for problems. At the end of this period, should there be no major problems, they shall be kin in full. Obviously, extraordinary deeds (as with the Kir'dabi) can shorten or remove this constraint.

[X] [Yeeni] The Yeeni's construction and continued deployment of their Scout Cruiser Spirit of Discovery is indicative of the 'above and beyond' spirit of their species and should be a valid consideration for Kinship, especially when considered alongside the large active Yeeni contingents within our military apparatus. Neither of these actions are things required by a 'Good Protectorate taking their role seriously,' all that requires is paying your taxes on time and not causing problems. The Yeeni are actively seeking out involvement in wider Federation affairs, and have been doing so for an extended period of time. Their engineers are a core and crucial component in the running of our largest warships, the Leo Heavy Cruisers, and the Spirit of Discovery has been responsible for finding not one, not two, but dozens of abandoned precursor starships which could provide Star Child only knows what kinds of scientific advancement once grants are approved to study them. As such, though they have not performed anything so dramatic as our Kil'drabi siblings stand alongside us against a foreign foe, I believe that the Yeeni have demonstrated the desire, will, and strength of character necessary to be called our Kin.
 
He got a point that Andromedas aren't the best for this, though. I like the plans floating around for Freighters, and they'll do a better job than military ships like Andromedas. Would you consider changing your plan for this?
I already did, it was never the intention to mandate the use of that specific design version of that specific ship. I was using andromeda as a term for "generic jump guide ship" because that's a moutfull.
 
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