Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Power Is Not Goodness. The Solar Exaltation does not go to the deserving, and the Solar Exaltation does not make its recipients moral.
I'm interested in where power equals good so that this would be a special deconstruction point for Exalted to make.

As for the deserving ones... Well, there must be some mechanism for choosing the best candidates for the next wave of soldiers of the primordial war.
 
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That not true at all none of incarna had any ablity to effect or control the exaltation. And exaltation worked on a first come first served basis according to their type and caste. Solar Dawn do something amazing in combat, Solar night cast stealth pass 100 guards. Lunar, survive something most mortals would not. Sidereal get ther exaltation at birth, be the next baby born after a Sideral dies and win the lotto eh, and must do something according to their caste to awaken their exaltation.

The most control any of the incarna has over who gets an exaltation, is if 2 or more people simultaneously qualified then the incarna they could maybe break the tie. But that super rare, what with the exaltation moving faster then light and going to the first person that meets the qualifications.
 
On the subject of arranging for our brother to exalt, the big question that I would wonder would be how easily and readily the exaltation would target across worlds. Is it going to look to another world if there's a qualified host nearby in the world where it's at? If not, then taking it in to our hell to have it released under controlled conditions could help ensure that it goes to who we want. Move several billion potential other recipients to the bottom of the list.
 
That not true at all none of incarna had any ablity to effect or control the exaltation. And exaltation worked on a first come first served basis according to their type and caste. Solar Dawn do something amazing in combat, Solar night cast stealth pass 100 guards. Lunar, survive something most mortals would not. Sidereal get ther exaltation at birth, be the next baby born after a Sideral dies and win the lotto eh, and must do something according to their caste to awaken their exaltation.

The most control any of the incarna has over who gets an exaltation, is if 2 or more people simultaneously qualified then the incarna they could maybe break the tie. But that super rare, what with the exaltation moving faster then light and going to the first person that meets the qualifications.
Even in the age of Sorrows the least populous era of mankind since the dawn of the first age still has 500 million people in it. If there aren't at least 20,000 people going through the activation criteria of every exaltation type under heaven I'll eat my hat simply because of course there is people fight for causes they believe in and are right or just or valorous all the time, people are constantly breaking and entering the maneuvering and spying to further some Grand and all the time repeat Ad nauseam for every other exaltation criteria every time every exaltation chooses the pool is Thousands large at minimum so Sol has to pick or the exaltation will pick for him either way someone will be exalted he has no choice in someone will be exalted.
 
I think Molly would need a lot of motivation to start doing something that complicated. She doesn't know yet how close the world is to dying every Saturday. Yes, there's an eternal war with those beyond the gate. Yes, there's evil like the Fallen and stuff. But I don't think we've seen enough outside of Vegas to justify taking extreme measures and screw the consequences. We haven't passed the Godzilla threshold yet. Aka the point where the situation is so bad that calling Godzilla into battle can only make it better.
 
On the subject of arranging for our brother to exalt, the big question that I would wonder would be how easily and readily the exaltation would target across worlds. Is it going to look to another world if there's a qualified host nearby in the world where it's at? If not, then taking it in to our hell to have it released under controlled conditions could help ensure that it goes to who we want. Move several billion potential other recipients to the bottom of the list.
I don't remember what book but I do remember seeing it they do have a proximity function thats based around other Exalted that's why you always saw no matter the Edition people from the satrapys and from the Realm exalting More Than The Fringe despite The Fringe almost certainly having more scenarios for the criteria of exaltation.
 
I think Molly would need a lot of motivation to start doing something that complicated. She doesn't know yet how close the world is to dying every Saturday. Yes, there's an eternal war with those beyond the gate. Yes, there's evil like the Fallen and stuff. But I don't think we've seen enough outside of Vegas to justify taking extreme measures and screw the consequences. We haven't passed the Godzilla threshold yet. Aka the point where the situation is so bad that calling Godzilla into battle can only make it better.
Even If Molly wanted to do the Godzilla thing she literally can't we know where one exaltation is currently and vaguely know the location of another that's not Godzilla that's two particularly powerful Wizards. Never mind the fact if we don't do something with the solar it's going to escape anyway when Odin fishes it's counterpart from the sea and modifies it or doesn't and releases it for his own ends.
 
Even in the age of Sorrows the least populous era of mankind since the dawn of the first age still has 500 million people in it. If there aren't at least 20,000 people going through the activation criteria of every exaltation type under heaven I'll eat my hat simply because of course there is people fight for causes they believe in and are right or just or valorous all the time, people are constantly breaking and entering the maneuvering and spying to further some Grand and all the time repeat Ad nauseam for every other exaltation criteria every time every exaltation chooses the pool is Thousands large at minimum so Sol has to pick or the exaltation will pick for him either way someone will be exalted he has no choice in someone will be exalted.
You don't get an exaltation for some minor thing, it has to be something legendary. Cracking a first age cypher that Dragonblood could not, forging a work of art that will inspire million for thousands of year, slicing the head off of a great beast, having your heart torn out, then choking the other to guy to death before you die. And the whole only 700 exaltation to go around, most people do their legendary thing, then nothing happens as their are zero exaltation open.
 
You don't get an exaltation for some minor thing, it has to be something legendary. Cracking a first age cypher that Dragonblood could not, forging a work of art that will inspire million for thousands of year, slicing the head off of a great beast, having your heart torn out, then choking the other to guy to death before you die. And the whole only 700 exaltation to go around, most people do their legendary thing, then nothing happens as their are zero exaltation open.
No there's only 600 to go around in second edition at least all the fated Stars are already chosen doesn't matter what they do. You get exaltation for doing a legendary thing. Intercepting a cryptographic message under heavy guard that would decide the course of a war Night caste there are thousands of polities in creation. Slay one of the Fay Nobles predating on your village Dawn Caste there are thousands of villages on the outskirts of creation because of the shrinking of creation, translate a Tome of sorcery that's written in Old realm with just a cipher for Realm then translating it into your own language and successfully enlightening yourself with it Twilight right there there are hundreds of tombs all across creation there are literally thousands of years of wreckage that could have that tome in it. On and On never mind the fact that Lunars are selecting for an even more common event trying to successfully fucking survive something dangerous (Conceptually) happening which I know I don't need to tell you the age Sorrows is full of that shit and I'm sure every age before it had some Metric of pretty goddamn dangerous going on.
 
On the subject of arranging for our brother to exalt, the big question that I would wonder would be how easily and readily the exaltation would target across worlds. Is it going to look to another world if there's a qualified host nearby in the world where it's at? If not, then taking it in to our hell to have it released under controlled conditions could help ensure that it goes to who we want. Move several billion potential other recipients to the bottom of the list.
We know that canonically Seal of Eight Divinities stopped Solar Exaltations from choosing residents of Autochtonia as hosts:
SHINING TERRORS
The Seal of Eight Divinities keeps the Ex-
alted of Creation from finding their way into the
Realm of Brass and Shadow. The only Exalted
within Autochthonia are his Champions, created
as servant-guardians of the people from among
their greatest souls. Apostates pervert this model,
but they are still made in greatness and never
know the bitterness of weakness. Even the flaws
of broken Alchemicals are the flaws of the mighty,
personalities writ large in moral failing and horror
rather than helplessness.
In Creation, the cry of individuals asserting
their destiny and dreams in the face of all odds
brings the possibility of Solar, Lunar or even
Abyssal Exaltation. Green Sun Princes arise from
those who break under pressure, as mortals often
do when set against the pitiless engine of society
or the awesome might of the Exalted. With the
Seals breached, the great may become greater,
lifting Autochthonia to heights unimagined—or
the downtrodden may rise under their own power,
reforging or shattering their world with glory its
natives cannot begin to conceive
Even If Molly wanted to do the Godzilla thing she literally can't we know where one exaltation is currently and vaguely know the location of another that's not Godzilla that's two particularly powerful Wizards. Never mind the fact if we don't do something with the solar it's going to escape anyway when Odin fishes it's counterpart from the sea and modifies it or doesn't and releases it for his own ends.
Indeed. Because remember - even Odin's lesser divine servitors have Intellectus for "honorable dead". Odin is one of the players I most expect to be able to game the system to get a loyal and heroic abyssal. For my own plans... Depending on how it goes, either find some WW2 heroic veteran dying of old age, and offer them a canonic choice between "pain and peace, war and lethe", or make Lydia a resonant superweapon - we know that unbound shards can be used to power magical superweapons, and Lydia is close enough, I think, to get a lot out of it.
You don't get an exaltation for some minor thing, it has to be something legendary. Cracking a first age cypher that Dragonblood could not, forging a work of art that will inspire million for thousands of year, slicing the head off of a great beast, having your heart torn out, then choking the other to guy to death before you die. And the whole only 700 exaltation to go around, most people do their legendary thing, then nothing happens as their are zero exaltation open.
As far as canon examples go, not really. Down to earth heroism works too.
 
We will open the exaltations and they will fly away to Tau Ceti. task failed successfully
 
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Happy three thousandth page, a propos of nothing.

[X] No, 'power comes from bargains' is not a lesson you want Daniel learning even if it is harmless this time.

Some things are meant to take time. Now go back to painting that fence, Daniel-san.
 
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Stormlight Archive, technically. Getting and improving Radiant powers requires swearing and upholding progressively harder oaths. The kind of "I will protect", "I will unite", "I will be true", etc.
Honestly, I'm not sure that the formula where you immediately lose power the moment you break morality is suitable. Because in this case, Good is the key to Power. And Not power equals good.
 
[X] Yes, if your brother's going to be out there looking for trouble you want him to have all the advantages he can get
-[X] This is an important teaching moment. "We have talked before about seeking power from places to not say it now would be to undermine what was said I will not lie to you and say there is no power in deals or bargains there is but there are drawbacks repercussions and consequences. I need you to understand that but there are also Gifts given by allies in true faith and as your education goes on hopefully you will always be able to tell the difference. Tiffany is offering a gift a one-off enhancement done because she feels like it not a bargain, Do you understand?"
 
Why is "power comes from bargains" a bad lesson? Because that's the basis of all society. You gain power through training by bargaining with you trainer for their services. You gain power by obtaining a weapon through bargaining with its maker. You gain social power by obtaining money, through bargaining your time and effort away to your employee. Inherently, everything but self-guided training in a cave is a form of bargain. Some bargains have heavier prices, and are unacceptable, but that's an entirely separate issue.
 
In the Age of Sorrows the DBs kill Solars because they are conditioned to kill Solars, most of them believe the Anathema BS. Outside of the walls of the Imperial Palace, the walls of the Heptagram an the highest and most prestigious monasteries of the Immaculate order all of them think that the Solars are posessed by Super Demons that stole power from the Sun or some such. That is why they do not try to turn them. Their Sidereal masters do try to use Solars, at least if they are Gold Faction, the Cult of the Illuninated exists for a reason. Baby Solars are not that hard to coral if you know what you are doing and especially if they happen to have intimacies that favor you.
That works right up until it doesn't. Or you discover that you have far less control than you thought you had.

The Cult of the Illuminated book had the Gold faction starting to lose control already.
 
It's not a bad thing to be aware of. It seems some people are concerned about what Daniel may do with that information considering what almost happened before.
He was about to go on a dangerous test that could end in his death, transformation into a toad, or eternal wandering. Not make a deal with the fairies. This is not a bargain, it is more like a training from hell and a hero's journey all rolled into one.
 
He was about to go on a dangerous test that could end in his death, transformation into a toad, or eternal wandering. Not make a deal with the fairies. This is not a bargain, it is more like a training from hell and a hero's journey all rolled into one.
He was going to do that to gain power. Bargains are another route to gain power. We've seen no indication yet that his judgement on such matters has improved since then. Therefore some people may have concerns on what he will do with that information. The position isn't hard to see.
 
You don't get an exaltation for some minor thing, it has to be something legendary. Cracking a first age cypher that Dragonblood could not, forging a work of art that will inspire million for thousands of year, slicing the head off of a great beast, having your heart torn out, then choking the other to guy to death before you die. And the whole only 700 exaltation to go around, most people do their legendary thing, then nothing happens as their are zero exaltation open.

Panther; the 2E signature Zenith, was Exalted because he had a moment of thinking that perhaps sobering up from a life of sex, drugs, and rock & roll gladiatorial combat was a good idea.

Arianna, the 2E signature Twilight, Exalted when she worked out what the subtext of an innocuous book was while reading in the library.

A heroic act is very much unnecessary.

Becoming a solar requires the potential for heroism, not being a hero.
 
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Why is "power comes from bargains" a bad lesson? Because that's the basis of all society. You gain power through training by bargaining with you trainer for their services. You gain power by obtaining a weapon through bargaining with its maker. You gain social power by obtaining money, through bargaining your time and effort away to your employee. Inherently, everything but self-guided training in a cave is a form of bargain. Some bargains have heavier prices, and are unacceptable, but that's an entirely separate issue.

Broadly speaking most of the things that hand you power in the form of bargains in this world cost you something, most often your humanity. Not even in the sense that the are necessarily evil but sponsored magic makes you more like the sponsor and less like your previous self. The idea that power is instrumental and does not have to change you applies to magic you learned be it path magic, martial arts or wizardry, but when you get to people holding up a contract they usually want something more.

Tiffany breaks the mold, but that is because Molly did Twilight Things (TM) to give her a body. She was meant to be a parasite, a vessel and a path for the corruption of Lasciel... and then Molly handed her a body which allows for the use of angelic lores, a thing which has never been according to Uriel, he did not know what would happen.
 
The real reason is that Tiffany doesn't have powers from DF. She has powers from the World of Darkness. And not everything there costs you your soul and your firstborn to boot. Many powers cost... two blood points or quintessence or are completely free, and this also applies to buffs. Yes, many things are not so free, but in general everything works very differently.

And yes, this is just a meta observation about the nature of powers and partly a joke about game mechanics.
 
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