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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Yog said:
We imported mechanics, and some of the setting in the places which were left blank by the books. Not the whole setting. There's no Caine roaming the earth, and no Camarilla.
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We explicitly imported the Kuejin and the shih and shen and much of the hierarchy of spirits that underlie those splats.
And they are an element of that.
But the QM has made a ruling on the issue anyway.

Yog said:
I disagree. In teaching someone Primordial I teach (give them better mental instruments) to better understand everything. Not perceive. Understand. Critical difference. If anything, this should make it safer for them to interact with the supernatural, as demonstrated by DC reduction to ritual magic.
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Not the way it works in the setting.
Knowledge is not neutral in the Dresdenverse. Hell, its not neutral in Creation in Exalted 2E. Seeing some shit, understanding some things can break your mind if you arent ready for it.

Lower-fidelity modes of communication serve much the same protective role that lower-bandwith connections serve in cybersecurity by limiting the ability of external actors to expose you to attack vectors.
Its much the same reason wizards dont walk around with their Sight open 24/7
Yog said:
And yet denarian toddlers. It's BS, that's what it is, and there's no indication, zero, that teaching a child about magic and Primordial language would somehow damage those protections, in whatever capacity they exist.
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1) The QM has explicitly stated that a 5 year old Primordial speaker can sell their soul
So yes, it explicitly does damage those protections; normal children can do no such thing.

2) No, Denarian groomers.

They have to invest a significant amount of time and effort fostering said child until they are mature enough to make a choice that the Rules consider as valid. The toddler doesnt actually get the opportunity to become a Denarian until they are much older, and thats assuming several years of undisturbed accelerated mental growth.

The child abuse parallels are more or less explicit.

And you cannot extrapolate from 30 Coins to the rest of the setting, when we have the rest of the setting there demonstrating how noone goes after children for deals.

For example? Given the information superiority that most of the supernatural possesses, and how a lot of spirits are atemporal, every wizard and significant magic-user would have long been tangled in debts as a child if they werent explicitly protected against such things.

See how much trouble three promises as a teenager caused Dresden as an adult, and thats with the holders of his debt being his godmother and Mab, who had an interest in not destroying him.

Earth-Destroyer said:
Historically if you where old enough to walk and talk, you where old enough to work. So that is what is magically relevant, in setting.
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Historically where? What part of the world? What time period? Hell, what class of people?
In historical European cities, 4 year olds worked as chimney sweeps while others werent considered old enough to start school.
Work has never in and of itself been a signifier of maturity. Thats a modern invention.

And being old enough to work has never meant you were old enough to make your own decisions in any society Im aware of; it just meant that you were old enough to do age appropriate work.
 
Yzarc said:
IPP without Essence only Protects intimacies.

Anything else is fair game, hence why I went True Faith, in addition to the Utility. I do like your build and if you added true faith, I would vote for it.

That said, living in their dreams does not protect against Mindcontrol.

Finally, we are limited to 6 points and Natural Leader is 1 point only.
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Intimacies are very broad. They protect all things that are important.

I can't add true faith, its dot expensive.

Living in there dreams lets him just teleport there and kill the offending party. Can't mind control if dead.

6 points of what??? I am unclear.
 
I am liking Yzarc's build well enough, even if it's only one for now. Though if we do end up using totems, I vote for instead of splitting Usum as a gardian totem of all our clones, instead have special city-spirits, one for each clone, with some ability flavor. That said, we really also need names and should also probably get on top of the build for Pods, who needs an Academic focused build probably.
Acolyte said:
6 points of what??? I am unclear.
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DP put a limit for merits to be 6 dots max with the exception of True Faith.
That said, we don't need True Faith 10 for mind control immunity.

Actually, Yzarac, you have True Faith costing 10 points, and are implying it's 10 dots, but I'm pretty sure it costs more than a dot a point? In fact what I can find seems to imply it costs 7 points per dot, meaning even if we went all it on True Faith it would be True Faith 5 for 35 points- unless it's far cheaper here for some reason? I don't know how the points are supposed to work in this quest.
 
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Acolyte said:
Intimacies are very broad. They protect all things that are important.

I can't add true faith, its dot expensive.

Living in there dreams lets him just teleport there and kill the offending party. Can't mind control if dead.

6 points of what??? I am unclear.
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You cannot get z Merit higher than 6 dots unless it is true faith.

You put 2 dots in natural leader.

My fundamental problem with your plan is it does nothing to protect from mindcontrol.

I mean even assuming ghf totem recognises the mindcontrol effect and kills the person, the damage is already done.

Ipp is explicitly NOT broad. Intimacies are very defined things and IPP specifically calls out emotion control as a separate thing.
 
Is fortune path something that could be bought right now so the clones can Death Curse or is that something they need to be taught after or use IDU for?
 
I mean there are a number of little things I'm unsure of in Alcyotes build- it seems like strange low-flavor minmaxing, with things like the social Molly having two secrete Spirit heritage merits, one of them for Fey for some reason, and the fact that they have less 'themes' and more 'here is some stuff to be great at', also there isn't a specific crafter when that has become a big part of Molly's character and life. Like, you should first decide what intamicies and character traits of Molly the clone is representing, and THEN try to make a build within the colored lines that clone would represent.
We have Pods, the scholar
We might have Drive to Invent Wondrous Arms, or Diwa the Crafter
We might have Noble Inheritor of Burdens Necessary, or Nibn the Leader
We might have Speaker of Voices Immeasurable, or Sovi the Diplomat
We might have Farthest Apparition that Remembers the Timeless, or Fart the Comic Relief.
Whatever it is, we should make sure that each build fits Molly as much as is a useful character.

I would try my hand at some builds myself if I was within a thousand miles of my computer, but I'm not going to even to juggle that on my phone while on vacation.
 
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@DragonParadox how much interest would you have in Molly taking the Drahma's Voice merit? It results in her knowingly or unknowingly (my preference) peppering her speech with wisdom deeper and more profound than she actually possesses. The mechanical benefits are being considered a mentor to other characters. Mostly though I think that so long as the GM has fun with it it would be hilarious narratively.

But that's the rub, if you feel that sort of humor is already well covered by our interactions with Lash, then there's not much point
 
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mastigos said:
@DragonParadox how much interest would you have in Molly taking the Drahma's Voice merit? It results in her knowingly or unknowingly (my preference) peppering her speech with wisdom deeper and more profound than she actually possesses. The mechanical benefits are being considered a mentor to other characters. Mostly though I think that so long as the GM has fun with it it would be hilarious narratively.

But that's the rub, if you feel that sort of humor is already well covered by our interactions with Lash, then there's not much point
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That does not really work since Molly is skilled enough to count as Mentor without that, Dharma's Voice is for when destiny proclaims you are going to be a mentor despite obvious impediments. Looking at all the Abilities Molly has at 4-5 she does not need that. If you guys want someone to buy Mentor off an SGI clone though that works.
 
powergoat said:
Actually, Yzarac, you have True Faith costing 10 points, and are implying it's 10 dots, but I'm pretty sure it costs more than a dot a point? In fact what I can find seems to imply it costs 7 points per dot, meaning even if we went all it on True Faith it would be True Faith 5 for 35 points- unless it's far cheaper here for some reason? I don't know how the points are supposed to work in this quest.
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DragonParadox said:
By default the clones form as an approximation of the infernal as a mortal, perfectly loyal to its creator, fully aware of what it is, and in possession of her memories. They each have Essence X 10 points to spend on merits and gifts at 1 point per dot.
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The charm says that we get Essence x 10 points that can purchase merits and gifts at 1 point = 1 Dot.

So 10 dots = 10 points.

Even in char gen, 1 BP = 1 dot of merit.
 
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DragonParadox said:
That does not really work since Molly is skilled enough to count as Mentor without that, Dharma's Voice is for when destiny proclaims you are going to be a mentor despite obvious impediments. Looking at all the Abilities Molly has at 4-5 she does not need that. If you guys want someone to buy Mentor off an SGI clone though that works.
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Alright. Mostly I was thinkin in terms of "casually drops answers to issues people didn't even tell her they were having" and "she doesn't even realize how much Deep Lore casually drops from her lips because she regards it as trivial knowledge". But I see your point
 
powergoat said:
I mean there are a number of little things I'm unsure of in Alcyotes build- it seems like strange low-flavor minmaxing, with things like the social Molly having two secrete Spirit heritage merits, one of them for Fey for some reason, and the fact that they have less 'themes' and more 'here is some stuff to be great at', also there isn't a specific crafter when that has become a big part of Molly's character and life. Like, you should first decide what intamicies and character traits of Molly the clone is representing, and THEN try to make a build within the colored lines that clone would represent.
We have Pods, the scholar
We might have Drive to Invent Wondrous Arms, or Diwa the Crafter
We might have Noble Inheritor of Burdens Necessary, or Nibn the Leader
We might have Speaker of Voices Immeasurable, or Sovi the Diplomat
We might have Farthest Apparition that Remembers the Timeless, or Fart the Comic Relief.
Whatever it is, we should make sure that each build fits Molly as much as is a useful character.
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Thats because i haven't had the time to talk about the concepts. It was bit distracting, i was looking at the the spirit building rules and was wondering if i can build a stronger incarna. I would love to expound on these concepts. Also it wasn't minmaxxed at all, i just bought the thing that suited them.

The reason i haven't made a crafter is that exalted crafting is just much better than mortal crafting, it would be a genuine waste to make a crafter clone, we have a nation of crafter mortals.

so the following is what the flavor for my build is..
So this is how imagine it being, firstly for the common traits among the clones.
All the clones have arcane. Why?? because it is the manifestation of the fact that molly is outside of fate. that disconnect from the threads of the fates prevents people form forming memories of her, because they aren't supposed to know her, they can't notice her because she doesn't show up in their destiny unless she makes the effort to approach you. It is the exact same reason the siderals have them.

Why do all the molly's have the totem background, because these are all shards of molly's soul and usum is just a part of her soul as well, so of course he is still connected to the other clones and why he is connection to their demesne. They are all the same being and their connections and empowerment is the same as the bones supporting your tendons.

the demesne is just the dreams of molly and now her clone carving a piece of the never never, a sort of shell around their minds where usum spends his time so he can do his best helping his empress, a realm where they can shape it to their desire, it could also be in our soul to simplify that.

the spirit heritage is bad merit i will admit, but it was closest to the thing I wanted to emulate. That is our very high standing with specific supernatural creature types. its specific to fey because we have helped the courts more than most fey ever have and gods is mostly because of the white god and odin, i am amenable to changing it.

Ancestor is a fun attempt to codify social molly attempting to emulate her parents or prime molly and then using that to guide herself.

dream and languages for smart molly are because their dream realm is occupied by an nigh-incarna spirit that can always search for information and what not for them.


ritualist molly is my biggest swing, she is a molly that basically went back to her would be wizard form and essentially spontaneously gained immense mastery over geomancy and the formation of ways across the never never, a sort of mixture mortal magic tapping into exalted knowledge.


i dont feel confident with these flavors because i am justifying individual choices.


so here is my holistic vision for them.

Molly's clones are formed from a yearning of unable to enjoy the entirety of her life because she was only at a single place. So she manifested her clones.

These clones are manifestations of the sphere she wants to enjoy,

one is the social molly, the one that wants to have fun with her friends and hang out with new people and go to the movies, the one with the natural charisma of youth unmarred by anything.

Smart molly is her curiosity, her urge to know the unknow and learn new things, it is the molly that likes tech and sci fi and has fun collaborating with her friend(usum in this case)researching knowledge and facts and things.

Sorcerer molly is the molly that loves magic and the feel of how it makes feel. it is the possibilty she has to explore now

ritualist molly is throwback to the wizard she could have been and which i headcanon she still misses, a grand worker of magic and taper of ley lines.

But despite all this they aren't separate beings, they are the same soul and every night to meet up with each other and have a fun time dreaming and presumably beating back nightmares from the borders of her demesne. usum is there to protect her because he is loyal and vigilant and is part of her
 
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
I need some clarifications:
1) Which powers do base clones have?
2) What kind of damage do base clones soak before upgrades? Bashing only, Bashing + Lethal, or Bashing + Lethal + Agg?
3) Do I have to respect any kind of dice cap? Exalts dont, but I dont know about this one?
 
Acolyte said:
All the clones have arcane
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I only now realized that Arcane was meant to be Arcane Fate, and that I'm definitely not for. For all the ability of Arcane Fate the inability to form memories removes a lot of utility for using the clones in various leadership roles.
Acolyte said:
Ancestor is a fun attempt to codify social molly attempting to emulate her parents or prime molly
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This is really just strange and doesn't really seem to fit with what the merit is supposed to do, even if you really stretch it. And even if you allow it, I don't like the thematics.
Acolyte said:
dream and languages for smart molly
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Another example of strange decisions, just giving the smart molly a large smattering of random earth languages using up a lot of points, for some reason? Again, I don't really see where this 'comes from'

Overall, I am not really a fan of the methodology behind this set of builds, it seems loose, spontaneous, and not very well planed out. A lot of the justification seems to be made in reverse as well.
 
uju32 said:
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
I need some clarifications:
1) Which powers do base clones have?
2) What kind of damage do base clones soak before upgrades? Bashing only, Bashing + Lethal, or Bashing + Lethal + Agg?
3) Do I have to respect any kind of dice cap? Exalts dont, but I dont know about this one?
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  1. Passives from all charms and they can spend Molly's Essence to get themselves active effects that function on themselves alone, no excellencies.
  2. Bashing only, they are not Exalts themselves
  3. 5 on Physical Attributes if you want them to look human is the big one. Socials over the cap you get a Lara Raith feeling, spooky skilled, but no one is going to run screaming from her. Mental atributes over the cap are even harder to notice
 
Yzarc said:
The charm says that we get Essence x 10 points that can purchase merits and gifts at 1 point = 1 Dot.

So 10 dots = 10 points.

Even in char gen, 1 BP = 1 dot of merit.
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Uhh... Let me quote M20 to you:

Strong belief is essential for a mage. You, however, hold
stronger beliefs than usual. Possessing convictions in a greater
outside power, you can channel that power for miraculous feats
that go beyond mere magick.
Game-wise, your character has one dot of True Faith – a
potent force, in the World of Darkness, that reflects devotion
to a god or pantheon. Despite the usual association between
Faith and Christianity, your character can belong to any sincere
creed with an established moral code and historical legacy.
(Sorry, but True Faith in postmodern satires like the Flying
Spaghetti Monster does not count.) A Technocrat can hold
True Faith too, although such Faith is pretty unusual. (See
Technocratic Faith
, Chapter Five, p. 184.) Even Marauders
and Nephandi can possess True Faith, although the Fallen
version of this Merit inverts the usual purity associated with
True Faith. Such Faith adds one die per point to Willpower
rolls, offers countermagick rolls (even for characters who cannot
normally use countermagick), and might allow the character
to employ other miraculous powers at the Storyteller's option.
Faith is no simple thing. It must be lived as well as
recognized. A person with True Faith strives to be an exemplar
of her creed, suffers crises of conviction, and might find
herself losing the Faith entirely. Conversely, she can also grow
into a paragon of her creed's virtues, embodying everything
good (or evil) about her Path. Deeds in accord with that Faith
strengthen or restore it, whereas acts opposed to the creed
weaken this Merit. For a mage, such Faith is an innate part
of her magickal focus – the two must be in alignment, because
they both depend upon the same beliefs. Some people believe
that mystics of the Celestial Chorus depend entirely upon
True Faith and do not use True Magick at all. (For details
about that option, see the Revised Edition Tradition Book:
Celestial Chorus, pps. 63-65.) People who can see auras view
True Faith as a shining corona of light… or a crackling storm
of colors for malignant creeds. For details, see
Aura Colors
and Textures
in Chapter Ten, (p. 507).
True Faith costs 7 points per dot and may be purchased
only during the character creation stage. Events within the
chronicle can raise or lower it, at the Storyteller's discretion.
People with True Faith are rare, and folks with Faith greater
than 2 might as well be living saints. Again, a character must
live, and perhaps die, by her convictions… a difficult thing, at
times, for a mage, thanks to the compromises that a Path so
often demands.
True Faith costs 7 points per dot.
 
powergoat said:
I only now realized that Arcane was meant to be Arcane Fate, and that I'm definitely not for. For all the ability of Arcane Fate the inability to form memories removes a lot of utility for using the clones in various leadership roles.
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Thats for random people, people still notice you and you can form links. It doesn't hinder social things.
powergoat said:
This is really just strange and doesn't really seem to fit with what the merit is supposed to do, even if you really stretch it. And even if you allow it, I don't like the thematics.
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That's fine.
powergoat said:
Another example of strange decisions, just giving the smart molly a large smattering of random earth languages using up a lot of points, for some reason? Again, I don't really see where this 'comes from'
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I think exalted learning a few new languages seem pretty easy.

The reason is so she can have a wider base of knowledge to research.

I mean i made it is 2 hours, so milage may vary. The explanation sound like that because i described them in a very haphazard manner, which is just a bad attempt i guess.
 
DragonParadox said:
  1. Passives from all charms and they can spend Molly's Essence to get themselves active effects that function on themselves alone, no excellencies.
  2. Bashing only, they are not Exalts themselves
  3. 5 on Physical Attributes if you want them to look human is the big one. Socials over the cap you get a Lara Raith feeling, spooky skilled, but no one is going to run screaming from her. Mental atributes over the cap are even harder to notice
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1) That Essence ruling is gonna be troublesome to keep track of in play. But alright.
2) So gonna need to invest in that. Gotcha.
3) So either keep their Physical Attributes below 5, or invest in something to hide it when their Abilities are >5.
Social's fine; I can think of several ways to do that which can be turned on or off.
As for Mental.....I could make an Intelligence 10 Molly, but I dont know how you'd be able to portray that.

This is gonna take most of the rest of the day to put together in my free time.
So I may not put anything up before tomorrow.
Earliest tonight.
 
This is my probably deeply flawed "social Molly" who ties together her partying, manipulative nature, beauty, and her pranks. But also is a reflection of "what could have been". I might even toss on a weakness to iron, though this is probably deeply flawed in some way that renders it not worth the effort

[X] Party Animal
-[X] Animal Magnetism 1
-[X] Cupid's Gift 1
-[X] Entrepreneur 1
-[X] Natural Leader 1
-[X]Concentration 1
-[X] Bardic Gift 2
-[X] Drug Resistance 2
-[X] Enchanting Voice 2
-[X] Refined 2
-[X] Sexy 2
-[X] Danger Sense 2
-[X] Innocent 2
-[X] Holy Aura 2
-[X] Surreal Beauty 3
-[X] Blase 3
-[X] Sex Appeal 3
-[X] Soothing Voice 3
-[X] Gifted Liar 3
-[X] Innate Magical Ability(illusions) 5
-[X] True Faith 7
-[X] Addiction(partying or maybe alcohol) -1
-[X] Bard's Tongue -1
-[X] Soft-Hearted -1
-[X] Impatient -1
-[X] Image Obsession -2
-[X] Incorrigible Flirt -2
 
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Ok, no chance of this winning, probably, this is a "for fun" narrative driven version of Molly that is meant to appeal to those interested in Exalted legacy.

[X] Plan Miraculous Remembrance of Life
-[X] Past Lives 5, 5 pts
-[X] Living legend, 5 pts
-[X] Inner Knight, 5 pts
-[X] Guardians Angel, 6 Pts
-[X] Spirit Magnet, 6 Pts
-[X] Spirit Mentor, 3 Pts
-[X] Oracular Ability, 3 Pts
-[X] Eidetic Memory, 2 Pts
-[X] Acute Senses, 3 Pts
-[X] [Power] Armored Skin, 1 pt
-[X] [Power] Mega-Attribute: Perception, 1 pt

This is the most I can make. It's meant to be Molly from the perspective of Past Lives and exalted legacy. You let her out in the Sanctuary, and she roams discovering ancient past, guided by spirits like Mother of Spiders, Traveler of Nullspace, and the Shadow of All Things.

The name was selected with meaning.
 
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@DragonParadox just to make your life more difficult, might I suggest that if we're doing the "buy splinters as we go" instead of the "all of them at once" approach, that the options not picked be somehow siloed and referenced as options in the next round of designing a splinter?

Actually, for that matter, if the "can have more than 4, but only 4 at a time" thing Molly mentioned in character is true, would all of the designs lurk within her as potential splinters and it's more a vote for which is manifested?
 
mastigos said:
@DragonParadox just to make your life more difficult, might I suggest that if we're doing the "buy splinters as we go" instead of the "all of them at once" approach, that the options not picked be somehow siloed and referenced as options in the next round of designing a splinter?

Actually, for that matter, if the "can have more than 4, but only 4 at a time" thing Molly mentioned in character is true, would all of the designs lurk within her as potential splinters and it's more a vote for which is manifested?
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Yes, you can technically have as many demons as well.. the Yozis, you just cannot give those demons Essence-Form since you lack the fully developed soul organs of a primordial.
 
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