Try to survive the Winter: A planquest in Fantasy Colonial America

Hmm. On one hand, we've spent a lot of the previous couple years doing a significant number actions that the Winter Walker Conservatives liked (some early reforms, restoring the Peaceful Wilds, and finding the First Walker.) But I was actually trying to be on the relatively harsher end. But maybe this is good enough?

I dunno, I did want the punishment to be at least harsh-leaning because it felt right for how important the relationship between the Dead and the Living is likely to be for Union, but on the other hand, everything we're doing right now is really just baby steps combined with some blind fumbling. But on a third appendage provided by a nearby ghost, they're also liable to be very foundational to Union.

Blegh, I dunno, I'm terrified of fucking this up...
 
Think about the good things that can possibly happen. Who knows maybe in the future of this quest, your choice would end up be the right one in the end.
 
True. Hmm, @Fanhunter696 I think I'll change the Punishment to this
-[ ][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
for now. Would you be willing to do likewise for Power of Decision with Champions? The main edits were your idea to begin with, and I want to make sure it's gotten across no matter which plan wins.

That aside, decided to do some more commentary on the Turn Results.
The Newcomers are in awe. So much food, enough for years ! What fertile soil ! Surely, with overflowing granaries, surely they will never know hunger again ! No matter how strange this land's Winter is, how bad could it be ?
They will learn.
Thinking on this, I feel like despite the Newcomers being far too optimistic, there is a grain of truth that things in Union are probably way better than being impoverished back in Europe, even with the horrible Winter.

Because Winter is at least an enemy that can be fought against, but if the local noble (or worse, the King) decide to screw you over, there really isn't much recourse for you.

Plus, the average person in Union probably eats way better during the non-Winter months. Abundant amounts of food, plus regular or at least semi-regular access to meat. Granted, there were quite a few staples of the European diet that were missing (including eggs until very recently, and we still don't have milk or alcohol), but still.

Beyond ensuring that the dissolution do not cause the ashes to separate, the main issue of this method is the sheer quantity of kills we would need to cover every inches of Union with the ashen paints, especially since the process should be done only with materials as clean as possible, if we do not want the power inside the ashes to empower potential unwholesome influence inside the materials.
No one wants to have their glue begin to move by itself. Again.
At least, we have a good stock of paints for Winter…

Ashen paints developed, stock prepared for Winter.
Further will not need Craft points, but (currently) require a constant influx of animal products of high quality.
Hmm. Would Lords qualify as high quality products for this, or are they considered tainted by Winter to the point where they can't be used? I feel they can probably be used given that we ate Lordsmeat without any issues (whereas eating the Husks back after the first in-Quest Winter would have started up the Corruption Doom Tracker.)

Lords aside, the alternative is probably another trade deal with the Shepherds.
 
Hmm. Would Lords qualify as high quality products for this, or are they considered tainted by Winter to the point where they can't be used? I feel they can probably be used given that we ate Lordsmeat without any issues (whereas eating the Husks back after the first in-Quest Winter would have started up the Corruption Doom Tracker.)
Most Lords would work (beyond some cleaning of the carcass).
Honestly, hunting Lords is more or less walling on land.
 
True. Hmm, @Fanhunter696 I think I'll change the Punishment to this
for now. Would you be willing to do likewise for Power of Decision with Champions? The main edits were your idea to begin with, and I want to make sure it's gotten across no matter which plan wins.
OK, it´s done...
I dunno, I did want the punishment to be at least harsh-leaning because it felt right for how important the relationship between the Dead and the Living is likely to be for Union, but on the other hand, everything we're doing right now is really just baby steps combined with some blind fumbling. But on a third appendage provided by a nearby ghost, they're also liable to be very foundational to Union.
If you are worried about being too "soft" you can always establish a harsher punishment for repeat offenders, like increasing the number of lashes, doubling or tripling the amount of time that they will be expelled from the council/assembly, and adding forced labor...
 
The vote for unlawful funerary practices is our punishment, but would the people of Deadtown have their own punishment?

When a person dies, they pretty much become part of Deadtown's population. Any bad funerary practices could lead to their new citizen being in danger from Winter and harming others. Since the spirits of the dead can't really do much physical harm, I imagine that they would just stop giving helpful advice and maybe start giving out insults.
 
we might want to add a second veto for deathtown itself if we are going to bury our death there but i am not sure if they have a leader/council we can give that veto to.
 
The vote for unlawful funerary practices is our punishment, but would the people of Deadtown have their own punishment?

When a person dies, they pretty much become part of Deadtown's population. Any bad funerary practices could lead to their new citizen being in danger from Winter and harming others. Since the spirits of the dead can't really do much physical harm, I imagine that they would just stop giving helpful advice and maybe start giving out insults.
Deadtown as its own punishments for criminals ghosts, and would probably complain to Union before drastric measure.
we might want to add a second veto for deathtown itself if we are going to bury our death there but i am not sure if they have a leader/council we can give that veto to.
Deadtown is ruled by a council of the ghosts that can currently stay out of the Fugue full time without needing a lot of rest/time spent a lower capacity.
The Nameless Priest is more or less they own Captain.
 
[X] Plan Power of Decision

I have a serious concern about having our most capable people become extremely exhausted just before the winter.

Also, I wish we would go with just asking the actual person in question what to do with their bodies instead, but apparently no one else want that.
 
I'm concerned with how much communing with the dead to that extent would exhaust and occupy our Death-Singers. It takes a not-insignificant amount of effort to empower one of the Dead to get them able to communicate to the extent of speaking words most of the time, and it could cause our Death-Singers to be overwhelmed during high-casualty events.

Furthermore, it seems to be that the Dead's word must be translated by a Death-Singer, which gives a lot of power to someone who doesn't really have a personal connection to the dead person most of the time. It honestly felt safer for me to have the Winter-Kin, the dead person's primary support network in times of crisis, be the ones in charge of that decision, as I felt they'd probably have the best idea.
 
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When a person dies, they may be…
-[][Practices] Buried and… (choose as many suboptions as wanted)
--[] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets)
--[] Subjected to the greater Riter of Eternal Repose (mutilations)
--[] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings
-[][Practices] Brough to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
–[][ Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose beforehand (bindings and amulets)
--[] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
–[] Brough without Rites
[][Practices] Write-In

If multiple practices are chosen, the decision of witch to take will be given to…

[][Executor] The Summer Kin of the deceased (direct family)
[][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
[][Executor] Their Chosen heir/representant
[][[Executor] By the deceased themselves, interrogated by a Death Singer
[][Executor]Write-In
Okay, so we've more or less decided that what we've got for Punishments is good, and I haven't seen any objections to the Captain's Veto.

So if there is any remaining question, it's over who should decide between the practices.

(I heard a minor argument about offering the Greater Rite of Eternal Repose, but it feels too permanent, and the Freed only use it for the worst of criminals, so I'd say we should do the same. I suppose I could add in something about how the worst criminals that we have who would be deserving of the death penalty would get the Greater Rite themselves.)

But the main dispute right now seems to be who decides between the different practices. I made a big argument for the Winter Kin of the deceased, who are the ones that the deceased would be fighting and dying alongside. There's also an argument for it being the Deceased themselves, but I personally think that runs into the twin issues of causing our Death-Singers to be spread awfully thin in the case of mass casualty events, and also gives the Death Singers a lot of power over the deceased, who they may not have a personal connection to. The 2nd is admittedly a lesser concern in my eyes than the former.

Still, I'm wondering whether I should spent an omake on a Question about the matter to help me decide and also relieve my current stress levels. But I'm struggling to figure out how that Question would even be worded.
 
[X] Plan Power of Decision

I have a serious concern about having our most capable people become extremely exhausted just before the winter.

Also, I wish we would go with just asking the actual person in question what to do with their bodies instead, but apparently no one else want that.
That exhaustion is going to be included in the morale reduction...

If finishing Champions would compromise the fighting capability of the Militia for Winter, OldShadow would have explicitly told it to us...
 
[X] Plan Power of Decision with Champions

Personally, I think these punishments are going to be perceived as too lenient. You have to keep in mind this is a deeply religious society on all accounts and for a lot of Union, wronging the dead isn't just wronging another person or the society as a whole- it's risking an immortal soul. If the New World is a purgatory, then the religious obligation to safeguard someone's ghost can be argued to, in some ways, supersede the imperative to safeguard their lives. Everyone dies, no one should be forcibly denied their deserved rest as they await paradise.

Now obviously I don't think a society of living people is going to consciously dismiss the value of their own lives, but part of the social contract has to hinge on safety and respite in the afterlife to compensate for the hardships and depredations of this life. That if you live a goodly life, one day your purgatory will end and you and your people will find deliverance from evil.
 
@Chimeraguard If you end up changing your write-in for the Funerary Practices and/or the Punishment please do it in the next 2-3 hours so that I can edit my plan before going to sleep...

And speaking of plans...
Adhoc vote count started by Fanhunter696 on Jun 7, 2024 at 7:25 PM, finished with 109 posts and 18 votes.

  • [X] Plan Power of Decision with Champions
    -[X][Training] Complete the Champions project through…intensive training [-6 Morale]
    -[X][Reform] Power of Decision
    -[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
    --[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
    --[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
    -[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
    -[X][Veto] The Captain
    -[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
    [X] Plan Power of Decision
    -[X][Training] not, let them rest. They will need all the strength they can in Winter.
    -[X][Reform] Power of Decision
    -[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
    --[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
    --[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
    -[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
    -[X][Veto] The Captain
    -[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
    [X] Plan Equivalent Exchange
    [X][Reform] Power of veto
    [X][Punishment] Hard labor (1 year)

Well it seems that the [] Plan Power of Decision with Champions is leading, I would have preferred that more people would have appreciated the Power of Law option though... For another couple of auto-assigning dice, I think that letting the Assembly give us priority projects is a very worthwhile Trade-Off
 
Hrm. But what should we do to increase the punishment? Like, I'm more than willing to do so, I'm just not sure what to add on.
 
As I noticed people have been voting for this plan but the full plan itself hasn't been, I will be voting using that if that's fine with you @Chimeraguard? Bit late to the vote and doubt it'll win regardless though.

[X] Plan Equivalent Exchange
-[X][Training] Complete the Champions project through…intensive training [-6 Morale]
-[X][Reform] Power of Law
-[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
--[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
--[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
-[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
-[X][Veto] The Captain
-[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
 
As I noticed people have been voting for this plan but the full plan itself hasn't been, I will be voting using that if that's fine with you @Chimeraguard? Bit late to the vote and doubt it'll win regardless though.
Yeah, that's fine, so long as you're prepared to alter the punishment if we do end up deciding on something different from the current.

I suggested having harsher punishment for repeat offenders...

But since you were thinking about using an OOC question for the Funeral Practices, I was thinking more on that TBH...
Hrm. What would I ask though? The thing with the Punishment is that according to OldShadow, right now our punishment is rated as:
Middle ground, with some unhappy (mostly older Winter Walkers).
So it's actually pretty close to a "compromise" option, which is why I thought it was largely okay-ish.

And asking for something like that is the best option for Punishment really feels like it'd be violating an unspoken rule of what these Questions can be used for, so I'm not doing that.
 
So it's actually pretty close to a "compromise" option, which is why I thought it was largely okay-ish.

And asking for something like that is the best option for Punishment really feels like it'd be violating an unspoken rule of what these Questions can be used for, so I'm not doing that.
You can always ask if you are missing something that will cause problems on either the Funerary Practices or Punishments...

Or something like that...
 
Hmm. That would do wonders for my stress levels over the coming days...well, why not? It's not the most efficient thing and it feels rather awkward to ask, but it does feel worthwhile since if nothing else, it'll help ensure that the Quest remains fun for me if I'm not stressing myself over mistakes in policymaking (since we don't yet have options to fix things there.)

@OldShadow If you consider it to be a valid OOC Question (and feel free to just refuse if you don't want to answer it), I'd like to spend my most recent omake reward on Fanhunter's suggestion for a Question: Looking at the current plan with regards to Funerary Practices (which is the same across all the leading plans), is there something with the current choices that will cause significant problems, and anything obvious we're missing that could address those problems?

The largest particulars that people are concerned about seem to be whether the Punishments will be considered too lenient to the crime, and whether or not we should have the Dead themselves be the decision-makers for what rites they go under. For the former I was under the impression that punishment was currently in a state of "A good compromise leaves everyone equally unhappy", with those left most unhappy (Winter Walker Conservatives) appeased since we've been doing a lot of stuff in the past that should greatly please them (restoring the Wilds and finding the First Walker.) For the latter, I thought that the Winter-Kin would be appropriate given that they're the ones you're expected to fight and die alongside, and that while Death-Singing to communicate with the Dead every time might be most optimal, that puts a high level of stress upon our Death-Singers, to the point where they could end up being overwhelmed in a high-casualty event (for example, a Smallpox outbreak.)


Second guessing whether the Question is needed now, but seconding Fanhunter696's request below, I would like a time extension for one final debate and addition to the Plans.
 
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Hmm. That would do wonders for my stress levels over the coming days...well, why not? It's not the most efficient thing and it feels rather awkward to ask, but it does feel worthwhile since if nothing else, it'll help ensure that the Quest remains fun for me if I'm not stressing myself over mistakes in policymaking (since we don't yet have options to fix things there.)

@OldShadow If you consider it to be a valid OOC Question, I'd like to spend my most recent omake reward on Fanhunter's suggestion for a Question: Looking at the current plan with regards to Funerary Practices, is there something with the current combination (particularly with regards to Punishments) that will cause significant problems?

The largest particulars that people are concerned about seem to be whether the Punishments will be considered too lenient to the crime, and whether or not we should have the Dead themselves be the decision-makers for what rites they go under. For the former I was under the impression that punishment was currently in a state of "A good compromise leaves everyone equally unhappy", with those left most unhappy (Winter Walker Conservatives) appeased since we've been doing a lot of stuff in the past that should greatly please them (restoring the Wilds and finding the First Walker.) For the latter, I thought that the Winter-Kin would be appropriate given that they're the ones you're expected to fight and die alongside, and that while Death-Singing to communicate with the Dead every time might be most optimal, that puts a high level of stress upon our Death-Singers, to the point where they could end up being overwhelmed in a high-casualty event (for example, a Smallpox outbreak.)
Well, Since OldShadow may be already in bed... @OldShadow would you mind prolonging the vote for a few hours so that Chimeraguard has the chance to see your answer, alter his proposal and we can edit our plans accordingly?
 
Hmm, I'm wondering if we should set up some sort of rules or guidelines for what are acceptable OOC Questions to ask as omake rewards. Some thoughts on it:

-One of the main uses of OOC Questions so far has been determining the risks of certain actions. This I think is fine. SV tends towards being risk averse and dislikes losing resources, and especially dislikes endangering them to unknown factors. These sorts of questions are good for helping the players judge risk and so encourage them to do risky actions because they can calculate the odds. I'd have probably found it a good deal harder to convince people to go for things like Vermin-killing or Lord Hunting if I wasn't able to spend Omake Rewards and so get a general idea of what the dangers would be and the amount of force (and kind of forces) to fight them. And even with that, OldShadow has shown that enough details can be concealed to take us by surprise, like with the Many-Limbed Devourers strength level being higher than expected.

-Another potential use for OOC Questions is things like Lore. For example, one thing that I've been wondering is if Cahokia is still around. From information on Wikipedia, it declined in 1400, but hit a rebound and reached a new height in 1650, so it should still be around as a fairly significant power, especially with the presence of magic giving Native Americans a much better fighting chance against both weird monsters and European disease/invasion. This would not affect our current status in any way, but it would broaden our understanding of the larger world, and would maybe even give us an idea on things like "how far west does Winter's influence extend?" Or maybe give us an idea if there's the potential to send a trade or diplomatic mission west (waaaay further in the future.)

-On the note of lore, there are subjects that I think should just be outright invalid for asking questions. That is, questions that we can answer by doing actions for, or are highly likely to be able to do actions for in the future. For example, we shouldn't be able to ask OOC "What's up with Sara and the Mourners and what makes someone a Mourner?" Because we already have a way to do that in our action list with "The Nature of Mourning." Things like "more details on what Hunger and Cold are" I think are also things that shouldn't be valid Questions. Stuff like that detracts from one of the mental environment of this Quest of playing as an isolated settlement whose knowledge of their immediate threats is minimal and must be purchased with blood and hardship. If we want to peel back the mysteries of the occult that we interact with ourselves, we should need to do it the hard way.

-Most related to the current Question are things like figuring out the consequences of actions, particularly in these in-between turn decisions. Back on Turn 9 it was made to discover if we could force the merchant to lower his prices, and I just made another about the Funerary Practices Policymaking. This I feel is an awkward grey area that leans dangerously close to "Asking the QM to tell us the best options." If it is allowed, I feel like it ought to only be allowed if we have already made a significant good-faith effort into sorting out our own plans and then asking for feedback on them. It's messy for me because actually trying to sort through and figure out what the policy should be is the part of this Quest I find less entertaining, because there's so much nuance that makes it hard to figure out. In one sense, that's fairly accurate to how it would actually be with Union making all this up as it goes along, but it's also quite mentally exhausting (at least for me) because I get stressed at the idea of going through things and messing something up, since I'm not sure on what our capability for reforms are.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the above?
 
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