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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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uju32 said:
There's zero reason for it to be only an IC action.
I have provided both the mechanics and narrative reasoning for it.


Furthermore, we do not control most of Lash's actions during the turn. When she isnt with Molly on a mission, she's off doing her own business, just like Lydia and now Olivia are. When Lash raised all her Physical Attributes to 5, we didnt vote for it; she just did it on her own. When Lydia acquired wooden golems, she did it on her own.

The only time we mandate what Lash(or Lydia) does is during end of story arc spending.
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And I very strongly disagree with your reasoning.
DragonParadox said:
If you are using custom charms remember to mark that with a link in your plans guys.
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OK, so, this opens a can of worms. I didn't want to bother you with this, but it seems the time is right. I have developed a set of custom Fivefold Court charms. If we are opening the custom charm buys (I expected this to require IC action, like conquering the Labyrinth), then I would very much appreciate you going through them to note what requires corrections, adjustments, rebalancing, complete removal, etc.
 
Yog said:
And I very strongly disagree with your reasoning.

OK, so, this opens a can of worms. I didn't want to bother you with this, but it seems the time is right. I have developed a set of custom Fivefold Court charms. If we are opening the custom charm buys (I expected this to require IC action, like conquering the Labyrinth), then I would very much appreciate you going through them to note what requires corrections, adjustments, rebalancing, complete removal, etc.
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Everything looks fine, but due to the nature of Molly's soul and the fact that you guys have not entered the Labyrinth yet only one and two dot charms can be bought at the moment from those lines.
 
The thing I really like about Shadow Spite Curse is the lack of activation cost or range limit just concentrating fully upon her target*. So whenever Molly has a free moment in her day she can spare a bit of spite to make Mikaboshi's day just that little bit worse. Which is so wonderfully ironic.

*and maybe a dismissive gesture that is only in the flavor text.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Everything looks fine, but due to the nature of Molly's soul and the fact that you guys have not entered the Labyrinth yet only one and two dot charms can be bought at the moment from those lines.
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Oh. That changes things a lot. OK. I am making a new plan then.

[X] Plan: courtly debut v1
-[X] Molly, 38 XP
--[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation (•••••), 20 XP
--[X] Treading the Golden Path, 4 XP
--[X] Five Paths, One Ring, 4 XP
--[X] Digital Possessions Management, 4XP
--[X] Shadow Spite Curse (••), 6 XP
-[X] Lydia, 12 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Excellency: Wits, 3 XP
--[X] Akashic Root Methodology (••), 6 XP
-[X] Lash, 12 XP
--[X] Lore of Humanity 1, 7 XP
--[X] Lore of Light 2, 5 XP
--[X]Investment: Fomor Power: Numbing 1: +3HL + wound penalty negation [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
--[X]Investment: Special Advantage 6: Regrowth: [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
--[X]Investment: Special Advantage 5: Soak Aggravated Damage [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
-[X] Olivia, 12 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
--[X] Psychoportation 3, 6 XP

OK. With the Fivefold court charms approved for purchase, I am very tempted to just buy up 1 and 2 dot charms for the whole plan. I'm holding back for now. Barely.

I removed PIO, and replaced it with three 1 dot charms of Ficefold Courts ( @DragonParadox Are we buying them at favored or non-favored rates? Both make sense narratively). Dc adjusters, dice pool extenders, essence regeneration and, most importantly, inventory charm that allows us to carry around turrets, grenades and guns.
 
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fictionfan said:
The thing I really like about Shadow Spite Curse is the lack of activation cost or range limit just concentrating fully upon her target*. So whenever Molly has a free moment in her day she can spare a bit of spite to make Mikaboshi's day just that little bit worse. Which is so wonderfully ironic.

*and maybe a dismissive gesture that is only in the flavor text.
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The roll is Willpower against DC7.
Its an average penalty of -3 dice from a person's action pool for the current turn.
Devastating against mortal dice pools, irritating for anyone else.

And for that turn you dont do anything else. Thats the cost.
 
[X] Plan Combat not important
-[X]Molly 42 XP spent
--[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation (20 XP)
--[X]Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••) 20 XP
--[X] Prayer Eating (•) 2XP
-[X]Lydia 9 Xp spent and 2 XP banked
--[X]Occult 2: 2xp
--[X]Ox-Body 4: 3xp
--[X]Devil Fighter/Mo Kung 2: Dragon Speed: 4xp
-[X]Lash: 10xp spent 1 XP banked
--[X] Buy down permeant torment by 1. 10 XP
-[X]Olivia: 9xp bank 2 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Psychoportation 3, 6 XP
 
uju32 said:
The roll is Willpower against DC7.
Its an average penalty of -3 dice from a person's action pool for the current turn.
Devastating against mortal dice pools, irritating for anyone else.

And for that turn you dont do anything else. Thats the cost.
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You are forgetting dc adjusters and whwh. As remote action, this is huge. SSC is not limited to combat. Molly can plop herself in a cold bleach bath with a bomb strapped to the door, and strategically mess with people and beings from very far away. This is especially dire when they are doing magic or using rare reagents. Basically, use the crown to learn when Mikaboshi is planning to be using some ancient irreplaceable artifact to purge the hope plague from his domain, then ruin his day.

We can do this with a dicepool of 11-13 and dc 3 trivially.

Also, Nemesis. It highlights Nemesis. That alone is enough to buy it.
 
If we start using Kakuri's power against Mikaboshi right now, it'll seem like Kakuri is taking advantage of Mikaboshi's weakness to strike. I mean, I'm sure he already is taking the opportunity, but it'll certainly make it hard for the two of them to deescalate when it seems like Kakuri is randomly attacking Mikaboshi personally every day.
 
Yog said:
You are forgetting dc adjusters and whwh. As remote action, this is huge. SSC is not limited to combat. Molly can plop herself in a cold bleach bath with a bomb strapped to the door, and strategically mess with people and beings from very far away. This is especially dire when they are doing magic or using rare reagents. Basically, use the crown to learn when Mikaboshi is planning to be using some ancient irreplaceable artifact to purge the hope plague from his domain, then ruin his day.

We can do this with a dicepool of 11-13 and dc 3 trivially.

Also, Nemesis. It highlights Nemesis. That alone is enough to buy it.
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The caliber of entity who you would want to harass that way are precisely the sort of people who can afford the defenses to nope this sort of personal harassment.

Lord Raith of the White Court had an investment to nope magic attack in the canon Dresdenverse by Ebenezar McCoy, and he's a relative scrub compared to the major players you're talking about.
This sort of thing would not bug Mikaboshi or Emma-O or indeed Nemesis.

It would ID Nemesis-possessed people according to the QM, which is a Big Thing.
But it wouldnt materially impede Nemesis' action.
Yog said:
I removed PIO, and replaced it with three 1 dot charms of Ficefold Courts ( @DragonParadox Are we buying them at favored or non-favored rates? Both make sense narratively). Dc adjusters, dice pool extenders, essence regeneration and, most importantly, inventory charm that allows us to carry around turrets, grenades and guns.
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*checks*
Not a fan.
Respectfully, I dont trust your system mastery enough to believe you both know when to write charms, and to know when not to write charms because they'll break the game.

For example? The first charm is hilariously broken IMO.

Treading the Golden Path is a 1 dot charm
-Gives her essence regeneration on the move at a rate of 2m/hour.
-Gives her (Essence) motes for entering a new environment she hasnt been in today
-Gives her -2DC in a new environment

All for 4xp.
For comparison and a benchmark?

Cracked Cell Circumvention gives -3DC to actions that help escape confinement.
One effect.
1-dot charm.

Charred Sinner Renewal allows you to heal 4L of damage and recover 4m of Essence every hour.
You have to be in a poison bath and stationary while doing so.
1-dot charm.

Violence Is Worship is a charm that gives Molly 1m of Essence in a combat scene for witnessing violence start, as long as she didnt start it herself.
Its a 3-dot charm.

TLDR
Treading The Golden Path charm basically snaps the Essence economy over one knee. For 4xp.
I dont want to go into the other two; I am getting tired of cross-checking the books right now.

======
I dont mean to be harsh, or rude, so forgive me if it comes off that way. I do appreciate a lot of the effort that goes into this sort of thing because Ive seen it. But this is part of the reason why I tend to be skittish of homebrew charms that are written by people whose system mastery I have no priors about.
 
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Zoolimar said:
Each day, exactly at 7:00, Molly had her own personal Fifteen Minutes of Hate.
She thought of a lot of people, and sent her worst wishes to them.
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Basically this.
uju32 said:
The caliber of entity who you would want to harass that way are precisely the sort of people who can afford the defenses to nope this sort of personal harassment.

Lord Raith of the White Court had an investment to nope magic attack in the canon Dresdenverse by Ebenezar McCoy, and he's a relative scrub compared to the major players you're talking about.
This sort of thing would not bug Mikaboshi or Emma-O or indeed Nemesis.

It would ID Nemesis-possessed people according to the QM, which is a Big Thing.
But it wouldnt materially impede Nemesis' action.

*checks*
Not a fan.
Respectfully, I dont trust your system mastery enough to believe you both know when to write charms, and to know when not to write charms because they'll break the game.

For example? The first charm is hilariously broken IMO.

Treading the Golden Path is a 1 dot charm
-Gives her essence regeneration on the move at a rate of 2m/hour.
-Gives her (Essence) motes for entering a new environment she hasnt been in today
-Gives her -2DC in a new environment

All for 4xp.
For comparison and a benchmark?

Cracked Cell Circumvention gives -3DC to actions that help escape confinement.
One effect.
1-dot charm.

Charred Sinner Renewal allows you to heal 4L of damage and recover 4m of Essence every hour.
You have to be in a poison bath and stationary while doing so.
1-dot charm.

Violence Is Worship is a charm that gives Molly 1m of Essence in a combat scene for witnessing violence start, as long as she didnt start it herself.
Its a 3-dot charm.

TLDR
Treading The Golden Path charm basically snaps the Essence economy over one knee. For 4xp.
I dont want to go into the other two; I am getting tired of cross-checking the books right now.

======
I dont mean to be harsh, or rude, so forgive me if it comes off that way. I do appreciate a lot of the effort that goes into this sort of thing because Ive seen it. But this is part of the reason why I tend to be skittish of homebrew charms that are written by people whose system mastery I have no priors about.
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Half dragon nest rate isn't combat viable, we get better effects out of CSR.
-2 environment DC is only scene long.

I appreciate your opinion, and I spent a lot of time trying to maintain balance and make the charms both mechanically and narratively playable, interesting and not game breaking. This is exactly why the linked list is something like 9th or so iteration of the charmset. And I am also wary of breaking the system in a lot of ways. I can abstain from voting for the homebrew charms until after a longer period of review has passed. @DragonParadox are you sure you want to allow custom charms right now? Maybe we and you need more time for review purposes?
As to SSC - it highlighting all of Nemesis was explicitely stated as an effect. Lord Raith is very unique in the setting - no other being we know of has perfect constant immunity to all magic, including to Starborn magic.

Removing 5 to 10 dice from an action is a very big difference, especially if done in a fight, or when someone doing complicated magic.
 
Yog said:
Basically this.

Half dragon nest rate isn't combat viable, we get better effects out of CSR.
-2 environment DC is only scene long.

I appreciate your opinion, and I spent a lot of time trying to maintain balance and make the charms both mechanically and narratively playable, interesting and not game breaking. This is exactly why the linked list is something like 9th or so iteration of the charmset. And I am also wary of breaking the system in a lot of ways. I can abstain from voting for the homebrew charms until after a longer period of review has passed. @DragonParadox are you sure you want to allow custom charms right now? Maybe we and you need more time for review purposes?
As to SSC - it highlighting all of Nemesis was explicitely stated as an effect. Lord Raith is very unique in the setting - no other being we know of has perfect constant immunity to all magic, including to Starborn magic.

Removing 5 to 10 dice from an action is a very big difference, especially if done in a fight, or when someone doing complicated magic.
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I'm feeling pretty bad on leaving you guys hanging on custom charms for so long since the last two arcs were so long and people seemed to really want a custom version of SGI so yes I am leaving that open. That said -2 DC seems like a bit much thinking about it -1 would put the golden path charm on par with one of the aspects of BSM which seems more fitting.
 
DragonParadox said:
I'm feeling pretty bad on leaving you guys hanging on custom charms for so long since the last two arcs were so long and people seemed to really want a custom version of SGI so yes I am leaving that open. That said -2 DC seems like a bit much thinking about it -1 would put the golden path charm on par with one of the aspects of BSM which seems more fitting.
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OK, sure, I'll correct the numbers promptly. If and when you have time, please look through others too, as many of them probably need mechanical balancing.
 
fictionfan said:
The thing I really like about Shadow Spite Curse is the lack of activation cost or range limit just concentrating fully upon her target*. So whenever Molly has a free moment in her day she can spare a bit of spite to make Mikaboshi's day just that little bit worse. Which is so wonderfully ironic.

*and maybe a dismissive gesture that is only in the flavor text.
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For really fucking with our enemies' plans, Endless Torment Emanation is a much better choice than Shadow Spite Curse. SSC makes their current action harder, in combat-time. ETE increases the difficulty of their current project by 2. Speak to any agent of the Wicked City, and curse attempts to cure the Hope Plague for remainder of current story.

ETA: I'd also really like to ETE things like Daedelus's efforts to horn in on the Library's political territory.
 
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Tsotate said:
For really fucking with our enemies' plans, Endless Torment Emanation is a much better choice than Shadow Spite Curse. SSC makes their current action harder, in combat-time. ETE increases the difficulty of their current project by 2. Speak to any agent of the Wicked City, and curse attempts to cure the Hope Plague for remainder of current story.
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Ideally we want both, and I am planning on buying ETE shortly. But SSC is cheaper, and it also has a delicious signature effect.
 
Yog said:
Half dragon nest rate isn't combat viable, we get better effects out of CSR.
-2 environment DC is only scene long.
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1) CSR is Dragon Nest rate, and you have to immobilize yourself to get that much.
This you can do on the move, and you can do it across diverse environments to boot.

There's a reason that Essence recovery is so deliberately difficult in the setting.
I wasnt kidding when I said this breaks the Essence economy.


2)-2DC which is sustained for every new scene you change locations in.
And which stacks with Shintai!Mode's -1DC reality bubble, and the other DC adjusters
Its hilariously broken. The whole charm is.

For example, look at our visit to the Wicked City.
That -2DC buff would have been in full effect for the entirety of that trip, on top of TLF and CCC and BSM.
Yog said:
I appreciate your opinion, and I spent a lot of time trying to maintain balance and make the charms both mechanically and narratively playable, interesting and not game breaking. This is exactly why the linked list is something like 9th or so iteration of the charmset. And I am also wary of breaking the system in a lot of ways. I can abstain from voting for the homebrew charms until after a longer period of review has passed. @DragonParadox are you sure you want to allow custom charms right now? Maybe we and you need more time for review purposes?
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Thanks for not taking it personally.

Yog said:
As to SSC - it highlighting all of Nemesis was explicitely stated as an effect. Lord Raith is very unique in the setting - no other being we know of has perfect constant immunity to all magic, including to Starborn magic.
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Yes, I know using it as a Nemesis detection was explicitly mentioned by the QM. However?
The Nemesis possessed arent all that many IIRC.
Its absolutely a big deal, but I wouldnt buy it for just that.

Lord Raith wasnt particularly unique; he was, in boxing terms, a medium-weight contender trying to break into the heavyweights
He got that Investment from an Outsider, according to Dresden's description of how it felt when he cast magic at him.
Consider what the actual heavyweights have.
Yog said:
Removing 5 to 10 dice from an action is a very big difference, especially if done in a fight, or when someone doing complicated magic.
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Not particularly.
Mikaboshi had All is Poison as a global effect over most of his prison, where all the scrubs live. Thats just a general effect at fucking with the proles and infiltrators. What do you think his personal protections are going to be like?

I mean, this aint all that unique an effect; its very similar to a spirit charm in M20 Gods and Monsters called Bad Luck Curse, which makes you botch.
Bad Luck Curse: The hallmark power of black cats andother beasts of ill-omen, this Charm directs the tides offate and fortune to curse the ass of some beleaguered mortal.
The spirit's player spends one point of Essence and rolls that spirit's Gnosis against difficulty 6. Each success on that roll changes the result of the targeted character's next roll into a 1. Thus, an otherwise-successful roll can be turned into a failure... and, if there are no more successes left, but one or more 1s on that roll, into a botch.

The spirit may use this Charm as often as it likes.Pissing off a black-cat spirit, then, is a fast-track tripto a really bad day.
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Arguably, the spirit charm is worse.
 
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Tsotate said:
For really fucking with our enemies' plans, Endless Torment Emanation is a much better choice than Shadow Spite Curse. SSC makes their current action harder, in combat-time. ETE increases the difficulty of their current project by 2. Speak to any agent of the Wicked City, and curse attempts to cure the Hope Plague for remainder of current story.

ETA: I'd also really like to ETE things like Daedelus's efforts to horn in on the Library's political territory.
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1) Its more expensive, but its a better charm for that purpose.


2) Note that it does not target the bosses, just their offices and projects.
Because magic bosses that would matter to an Exalted can be expected to have the defenses to handle or otherwise mitigate this sort of thing.

Particularly in this Dresdenverse AU, where faerie curses and wizard death curses are very much a thing, and feared appropriately for their ability to kill or otherwise absolutely fuck your life up, as well as your unborn descendants if you dont have the power and smarts to defend against them.

Again, see Lord Raith, who got an Investment to prevent magic being used against him directly, and didnt prevent him being starved to death by a smart curse.
Or poor Harvey MacFinn the loup garou.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Jun 3, 2024 at 5:05 AM, finished with 193 posts and 9 votes.
  • [X]Plan Shadow Clones
    -[X]Molly: 40xp
    --[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
    --[X]Sandstrike Blast: 8xp
    --[X]Countermagic 2/4(Human + Vampire): 6xp
    --[X]Ox-Body Technique 3: 3xp
    --[X]By Rage Recast 3: Swift Stride: 3xp
    --[X]Lash raise Stamina to 5
    --[X]Remaining Bank: 1xp
    -[X]Lash: 11xp
    --[X]Investment: Fomor Power: Numbing 1: +3HL + wound penalty negation [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Investment: Special Advantage 6: Regrowth: [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Investment: Special Advantage 5: Soak Aggravated Damage [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Lore of Light 2: Bend Light: 5 XP
    --[X]Occult Aptitude: 3XP
    --[X]Countermagic 1/4(Spirit): 3xp
    -[X]Lydia: 11xp + Molly 1
    --[X]Occult 2: 2xp
    --[X]Ox-Body 4: 3xp
    --[X]Devil Fighter/Mo Kung 2: Dragon Speed: 4xp
    --[X]Countermagic 1/4 (Fae): 3xp
    -[X]Olivia: 11xp
    --[X]Bank XP
    [X] Plan: courtly debut v1
    -[X] Molly, 38 XP
    --[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
    --[X] Treading the Golden Path, 4 XP
    --[X] Five Paths, One Ring, 4 XP
    --[X] Digital Possessions Management, 4XP
    --[X] Shadow Spite Curse (••), 6 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 12 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
    --[X] Excellency: Wits, 3 XP
    --[X] Akashic Root Methodology (••), 6 XP
    -[X] Lash, 12 XP
    --[X] Lore of Humanity 1, 7 XP
    --[X] Lore of Light 2. 5 XP
    -[X] Olivia, 12 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Psychoportation 3, 6 XP
    [X] Plan Combat not important
    -[X]Molly 42 XP spent
    --[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
    --[X]Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••) 20 XP
    --[X] Prayer Eating (•) 2XP
    -[X]Lydia 9 Xp spent and 2 XP banked
    --[X]Occult 2: 2xp
    --[X]Ox-Body 4: 3xp
    --[X]Devil Fighter/Mo Kung 2: Dragon Speed: 4xp
    -[X]Lash: 10xp spent 1 XP banked
    --[X] Buy down permeant torment by 1. 10 XP
    -[X]Olivia: 9xp bank 2 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Psychoportation 3, 6 XP
    [X] Magic & Clones
    -[X] Molly (42 XP)
    --[X] By Rage Recast, Energy Projection (6 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alchemy to 5 Dot (3 XP)
    --[X] Buy Mana Manipulation to 3 Dots (13 XP)
    --[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
    -[X] Lydia (11 XP)
    --[X] Arms of Iron (6 XP)
    --[X] Excellence of the Tireless Psychopomp, Perception (3 XP)
    --[X] Increase Occult to 2 Dots (2 XP)
    -[X] Tiffany (11XP)
    --[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Lore of Light 2. 5 XP
    -[X] Olivia (10 XP 1 Banked)
    --[X] Virtue P'o 5 (7 XP)
    [X] Plan Do Stuff
    -[X] Molly, 38 XP
    --[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
    --[X] Principle Invoking Onslaught (•••), 12 XP
    --[X] Shadow Spite Curse (••), 6 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 12 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
    --[X] Excellency: Wits, 3 XP
    --[X] Akashic Root Methodology (••), 6 XP
    -[X] Lash, 12 XP
    --[X] Lore of Humanity 1, 7 XP
    --[X] Lore of Light 2. 5 XP
    -[X] Olivia, 12 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Psychoportation 3, 6 XP
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