BoredMan
Salutations thou who beds thy own mother
I think your ignoring the points presented and hanging onto this "fist fight" thing.
We have enemy dots in the Fallen. They don't need to give a fuck about Yomi they already have incentive.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
We have enemy dots in the Fallen. They don't need to give a fuck about Yomi they already have incentive.
We have two points of enemy with the denarians. Do you know what a one-point enemy flaw is it's a minor Grudge from some inconsequential party. The Fallen care about us because of Tiffany and our dad but if they have anything else going on there definitely going to focus on that. They're powerful party and they have a minor grudge against us.
You do remember the conversations we had about how a sliver of an Angel could potentially have screwed us up if Tiffany had gone wrong? They've assaulted major powers before for various reasons and made at least some progress on their goals. They're on the short list of people capable of taking a shift at the gates from the faerie queens.
Will they definitely? Maybe not. But assume for a moment that the DF factions aren't limp wristed idiots incapable of causing problems.
Cause it's a waste of our time based in a guess with more readily apparent complications than benefits.
This has already grown in scope several times now, let's just pull the trigger already.
[X] Spread the word only to his closest allies, those he is reasonably sure will not take it ill
Don't over complicate things.
Don't over complicate things.
BoredMan
Salutations thou who beds thy own mother
They can multitask as there are quite a few of them. I don't really know what to say at this point. I think you guys made up your minds and are refusing to even acknowledge that a significant faction with the motives and excuse to do so is capable of indirectly causing problems we don't need. Seeing as y'all are just going to continue doubling down on that notion I'll drop it.
- Location
- washington
I mean indirectly sure I'm just saying the idea of them fucking up the brew or coming to fist fight us is retarded.
Good night guys, see you tomorrow as we finally get to that explanation for Michael and Charity... now with magical plagues.
- Location
- Canada
Molly: Right, so the Federal Reserve is on the ball, there's still gonna be a recession and who knows how the effects will propagate globally, but that is officially not my circus, not my monkeys.
Charity: *deadly silence*
Michael: uuuuhhhhhhhhh-
Molly: So! With the power of friendship (and this cognitohazard I bought), I will now bring hope to the most despairing of Amazon warehouse employees! I shall fan the flames of desire for a better world in even the hearts of the most broken corporate wageslave! Three days hence, I will deploy the world's first strategic meme against Mikaboshi, and with that one good kick in the door the whole rotten structure will come crashing down-
Charity: *deploys strategic chancla*
… I don't suppose a "We swear it was just supposed to be a college visit" will get Molly, Lydia, and Olivia out of Charity's extra strength mom look?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X]Yog
This escalated super hard. Hopefully this is the peak escalation of the ark, and we don't end sword fighting Mikaboshi on top of his tower, or leading a full scale slave rebellion.… I don't suppose a "We swear it was just supposed to be a college visit" will get Molly, Lydia, and Olivia out of Charity's extra strength mom look?
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
They don't need to directly confront us to fuck us over hard. Hell, all they would need to do is get their hands on someone who has been infected by it in order to reverse-engineer it, and then we're potentially dealing with an *actual* cognitohazard, and one tailor-made by a group of people with far more dice to throw at the problem in order to fuck shit up. We don't need to make Michael's job any harder.
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- Location
- washington
No that I still think is retarded your suggesting mortal agents can reverse engineer a brew made by two exalted, a queen of summer, and a demon earthbound fallen thingy. I'd say it'd be easier for a mortal to cure fucking vampirism than copy whatever is made or affect it.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I would consider the likes of Nicodemus Archleone and the other major Denarians (at least one of which specializes in diseases IIRC, I don't remember which one though) to be more than merely 'mortal agents', particularly if Anduriel is able to advise/boost him without drawing down the wrath of God on them.
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- Location
- washington
It's still fucking dumb to think them capable of that not to even mention the multiple paradigms being used to make the thing.
BoredMan
Salutations thou who beds thy own mother
Hopebringer.
And how much heavenly tribulation do you think they're going to call down for doing that. It will call down the trials of the angels on them. They would be unraveling the work of an incarna two lesser entities that are similar to incarna both of death and of Hell's and that of another Angel there is no possible way for them to Grant enough magic to their Mortals without breaking the rules and once they break the rules enough to unravel and potentially make it Cognito hazard out of that it's like Uriel gets to show up in Smite them in person level tribulation.
To put another way they would have to unravel the power of the summer lady two exalted and another angel with a mortal shell without breaking the rules. Somehow maybe in a couple thousand years of study they could get there and there's a thing Archleone definitely could have done it in the 2000 years he's been alive but you know doing it anytime span that some nominal or useful would require breaking the rules enough that an actual Angel could come down from heaven and smite them.
I struggled to think outside of angelic Authority what could be granted that would allow a mortal mind to comprehend this craft. If those start coming out on the Fallen side then God is liable to just open up the clouds and let a lightning bolt following them because they have broken the most fundamental rule not even just possession but outright allowing system code to be accessed by human hands.
- Location
- Brazil
Correction: the power of the Summer Queen, no Lady.
I thought the lady was the queen I thought it was Mother, Lady, Maiden if that isn't the case my bad.
- Location
- Brazil
No, is Mother, Queen and Lady for Summer and Winter.
It goes Mother, Queen, Lady. And I think that what we are brewing is interesting enough that Mother Summer might pay a visit. Especially because, if I understand correctly, she is drawing power from some of the Exalted Maidens (or what remains of them).
Well, to Mikaboshi it would definitely be the Great Curse. Not sure if it needs any other name.
There are very Lanka parallels here.
In canon KOTE Ravana corrupted so many glades and nature spirits that multiple powers reacted, crippling him and Lanka . Here Mikaboshi tried to do the same with cities and is looking to draw a similar reaction.
There's a couple longterm benefits here, if we can pull it off.
Its pretty clearly a proportionate response to someone attempting to blow up the mortal economy starting from the nation where Molly's mortal identity is domiciled. Especially as the events of the Great Recession play out over the next couple years.
The Great Recession IRL can be directly linked to at least 4800 excess suicides in just two years, and thats just in mostly American and European countries, with only 8 Asian and 1 African country on the list. Most of the world had no tracked public stats on this thing.
We are also aware of around a quarter million excess cancer deaths linked to the Great Recession in the West.
Impact of 2008 global economic crisis on suicide: time trend study in 54 countries
Objective To investigate the impact of the 2008 global economic crisis on international trends in suicide and to identify sex/age groups and countries most affected. Design Time trend analysis comparing the actual number of suicides in 2009 with the number that would be expected based on trends...
News | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health
The latest public health news delivered right to your inbox.
www.hsph.harvard.edu
Wikipedia said:In the United States, the public health workforce decreased by at least 40,000 jobs (about 1/5 of its workforce) between 2010 and 2013, following the Great Recession. As of 2023, it had not recovered.[27]
Although it has been argued that recessions can benefit health,[28] for example through reductions in road traffic accidents when car use reduces due to unemployment, there is a lot of evidence that the Great Recession did widespread damage to health. According to a study of 54 countries, there has been an increase in suicide deaths as a result of the recession. The study cites that there were an estimated 5,000 additional deaths resulting from suicide in the year 2009 alone.[29] In Iceland rates of low birth weight were found to increase after the start of the recession in 2008, although no differences in preterm birth were found.[30] In England, exposure to the Great Recession during pregnancy was associated with financial hardship, and both of these were associated with increased odds of continuing to smoke during pregnancy.[31]
Effects of the Great Recession - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
And that was under circumstances where the crisis was managed. Under the circumstances that Mikaboshi was trying to engineer, there would have been significantly worse mortality effects as economic effects either worsened people's mental health, or made them economically incapable of taking care of their health.
And thats not counting political effects.
There's also the chilling effect on other factions, like other Yama Kings. And the Red Court of Vampires.
Since it would demonstrate an existing capability and willingness to respond to provocations on both a tactical and a strategic level, beyond just shanking uppity godlings in the face.
Lara Raith will certainly use it as an in-house training lesson on being careful about who you pick fights with, and why it was good policy to establish a non-aggression treaty with the new neighbor.
My dear fellow, I would suggest you go back and read some of the writeups for Kueijin elders again.
Whatever kuejin dharma is supposed to translate to, it doesnt track morality.
Old age and elevated dharma does not make kuejin nice fellows. Certainly not by mortal standards; the prescribed punishments for trespass in some kuejin courts would meet Yama King approval for how nasty they can get.
Even Nergui did not get this way without enough blood and death behind him in his centuries of life to impress a naagloshii.
Neither assertion in the bolded sentence is true.
Molly: "I remember people coming to Winter's heart for me, Mom. Could I do less?"Good night guys, see you in the morrow with explaining to Michael and Charity why you... organized an expedition to hell alongside one of the walking dead
Its not a secret that they have had dealings.
A lot of Powers have dealings if they are old enough; the White Council and the Red Court had diplomatic relations before the outbreak of the Vampire War, regardless of how they privately felt about each other.
It IS a secret that Summer and Winter owe Molly outstanding favors, just like its a secret that Molly owes Odin outstanding favors. This is the Dresdenverse; knowledge is power.
That said, nothing this big would have come out of the Wicked City without Mikaboshi's approval and resources.
No it wont.
Knowledge is not the same thing as enlightenment.
Or the Yama King most known for his appetite for risktaking will simply take more risks.
There's Power out there if you know where to look.
The Fallen. Outsiders. Old Ones. Even original shit, like Mikaboshi himself did.
Not saying its not worth doing, just pointing out that you should temper your expectations about how long you can expect to sideline someone like Japanese!Kemmler.
Its not false though.
All kueijin were previous inmates who got out of Yomi Wan by hook or crook.
Lanka is currently largely populated by souls who escaped from individual Hells and sought refuge in the one place where the Hell is largely crippled.
Yen-Lo's Hell is sealed against other Yama Kings, but its ruled by a Buddhist saint who was the designated successor after Emma-O and Rangda murdered the original Yama King and his second in command.
The Scarlet Path leads to the Yang World (the Dreaming), and while a very dangerous place, is full of enclaves of rebels.
The Ebon Path leads to the Yin World(the underworld, land of the dead), and while arguably even more dangerous, is canonically used as an underground railroad by some people to smuggle people out.
Heck, Emma-O's Hell explicitly has a well-hidden portal that leads out to paradise for the Ainu in particular
There is a secret to the Cave of Maidens that even
most shikome don't know: For one in every several million
souls that comes through the Cave of Maidens, it truly is a
place of tranquillity. Souls who find the cave who are of
Ainu blood, and who are relatively compassionate and
just, see the shikome for what they are but can avoid them
and instead follow a faint, fragrant breeze to the back of the
cave, beyond where others can follow. This will lead Ainu,
and only Ainu, to the Underworld of their ancestors, now
nearly deserted, but still warm and ruggedly beautiful. No
one who is not of Ainu descent can enter this place, and
those Ainu souls who do so are gone forever, having
achieved their just reward.
most shikome don't know: For one in every several million
souls that comes through the Cave of Maidens, it truly is a
place of tranquillity. Souls who find the cave who are of
Ainu blood, and who are relatively compassionate and
just, see the shikome for what they are but can avoid them
and instead follow a faint, fragrant breeze to the back of the
cave, beyond where others can follow. This will lead Ainu,
and only Ainu, to the Underworld of their ancestors, now
nearly deserted, but still warm and ruggedly beautiful. No
one who is not of Ainu descent can enter this place, and
those Ainu souls who do so are gone forever, having
achieved their just reward.
The lie of the Hells and their overlords is that there is no alternative to service and suffering and depravity.
Explicit quote:
Thousand Hells p20 said:
The Yama Kings date back to pre-history and they have been successfully policed by various shen, the Wan Xian, and so on.
The 30 Fallen of the Denarian Order have only been on Earth since the Crucifixion, and yet their showing up necessitated that 3x Angels take up residence in Swords to provide a counterweight. And thats in addition to actual archangels keeping an active eye on their actions, and occasionally acting directly to counter them.
In a fight outside of Yomi Wan between an old or valued Denarian and a Yama King? Im giving it to the Denarian. Easily.
Possibly even inside Yomi Wan; the rules that constrain the Fallen against mortals probably dont apply to helllords, and Nicodemus was famously powerful enough to command the defenses of the Outer Gates when Mab first came to power a thousand years ago.
I would certainly love to watch a throwdown between, say, Tou Mu and Ursiel!Genoskwa.
From a safe distance.
^^^
Ages-old planetbusters who were witness to Creation have setting-breaking levels of lore if you can get them to share, in a setting where a single book written by a mortal necromancer was enough to ascend a wizard to a god.
Even when it comes to fist fights, there's a lot of underestimation going on because most Denarians treat their hosts as disposable. Those that dont? Get fucking horrifying. Polonessa Lartessa, for example, took enough aggravated damage to die twice during Small Favor and is still walking around.
Denarian!Marcone, a man with no known previous magical expertise, was able to pull aggro from the Titan Ethniu.
And he survived the experience, even walking off having his neck broken.
*points at Dresden wielding Hellfire when he had Lash in his head*
*points at Marcone's duel with Ethniu*
Thats demonstrably not true. And even advice can be deadly. Lasciel got Dresden to kill himself with 7 words.
One of the architects of Creation giving advice to a helllord or a demon of Yomi Wan is the sort of thing that has outsize effects; Lash was just a Shadow, a beta fork of a Fallen with only some of the knowledge of her sister-mother, and as it stands her noggin is probably one of the top ten most valuable mortal data vaults after the Archive.
Now I am beginning to wonder if Mikaboshi remains sufficiently mortal to wield a Coin....
^^^
I find it remarkable that some people are arguing that its a good idea to give the Fallen, some of the most knowledgeable supernatural operators in the setting, an excuse to butt into our clash with Mikaboshi, the Yama King whose origin story is literally "I am a mortal man who took lore from demons and ascended into a Yama King".
The Denarians are already Enemy 2. They dont need all that much reason to fuck with us on general principles.