- Location
- Spain
I Would love to get deer, but admitedly we are going to get more use out of the wolves...
[X] Plan An Old Friend - Wolves
[X] Plan An Old Friend - Wolves
Try to survive the Winter: A planquest in Fantasy Colonial America
- Thread starter OldShadow
- Start date
- Fantasy Alt. History
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
I am very strongly against requiring great deeds to be a Councilmember. Aside from the whole elitism angle, there's not exactly a vast amount of opportunities to perform deeds of great heroism for most of our non-Heroes. We're gonna have a severe shortage of prospective Councilors if we do this.
Heck, most of our early Councilors were old or injured people who weren't able to do other work.
This feels overly-clunky, even for something as complex as the formation of a government. Like, Union is starting to form something beyond just immediate survival, but it's still crude. But something this complex feels...messy.
And in particular, I think given where we are and what Winter entails, longstanding exile is too cruel. No one deserves to face Winter alone (or get snatched up by the Tribute-Takers). And we probably can't afford for Councilmembers who have a lot of experience with how Union works to be exiled in a way that risks them being captured by our enemies.
Would have thought that these would be occurring by default (especially the Separation of Power), but if not, then I'd be willing to add them in if there's no objections.
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This would just create glory seeking behaviour.
After all, there's a reason the phrase 'no heroes' is commom in the army.
Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
I'd hardly call most of these great deeds.
Just by living in North America for 2 years without dying gets you 1/2 the requirement, and has been done by every original colonial and winter walker. The only people that don't qualify are the unchained and new colonials.
Helping save the lives of at least 10 allies of Union is extremely easy. You fed the hungry, were a militia member, or helped sick people? You've helped save the lives of the allies of Union. Anyone in Union that is willing to help others has already accomplished this.
The freeing of the enslaved just allows people like the unchained or winter walkers that have been able to escape the tribute takers in a group to more easily join the Council. The captured vessel bit is to insure that the unchained can get council members, it is just a coincidence that the vessel they took was a galleon. It could be a canoe or rowboat for all I care.
Only the colonials that literally arrived this year can't be part of the Council.
Edit: Maybe changing 'Helped save the lives of 10 allies of Union' to 'Helped to save the lives of 10 people or allies of Union' would be better
That is why the only chance for exile is for knowingly doing treason while being a part of the government. It doesn't really matter if you have experience if your going to use it to harm our people. The part about permanent exile is just incase we somehow get an undead or immortal council member. You can't kill them or allow them to rejoin after a measly two years, so permanent exile is the only option. The final option gives the government an the option of some forgiveness. It might be better to give them until a boat to arrive to leave, so Winter can't get them.
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trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
Has it been mentioned what we could do with beaver fur? Or are we just getting it as a trade good for if more ships show up?
I imagine we could make some cozy hats and coats with it.
I imagine we could make some cozy hats and coats with it.
The problem is that we are picking a legislative body, not a military one. None of those accomplisments helps us find good or even decent administrators, much the opposite I would say.
So by those rules the admin nerd who is a bit too scrawny to go out and fight would be ineligible from joining the Council, despite knowing our production and comsuption numbers like the back of their hand.
It would also exclude most of crafters, after all, how can you tell when a piece of clothing would have saved your life? Or a ceramic vase?
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Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
This is completely understandable and I'm completely willing to change things to include those two groups of people. What would insure that someone good at governing or making things would meet the requirements to get on the Council. (Other than being able to get a large number of the Council and/or Assembly to vouch for them.)
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
In all fairness, that's because we live in an era where the battlefield is dominated by shrapnel bombardments and sniper fire; the former is no respecter of heroism and the latter actively punishes it.
In a setting where individuals with extraordinary willpower can achieve supernatural results, there is definitely a place for heroes. I'm not sure that running the civic council is part of that place, but there is a place.
You're not wrong about the overall point that craftsmen and scholars should have just as much if not more of say on the Council than the warriors, to be clear.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Well, Heroes seem to be their Own Thing apart from anyone else and this is acknowledged in-universe. We even have an action working to address their status.
TBH, I think trying to ensure we get the "optimal" Council of the Best People Possible is basically impossible. Union has a population of ~850 people who are a mixture of impoverished Anglo-French peasants, Native survivors, and a variety of African slaves, all of whom are massively traumatized and in a general survivalist situation, and the vast majority of whom have no formal education and the majority of whom have their daily lives occupied by work for immediate survival. There's nothing that even close to resembles an official pipeline for skilled administrators, and I feel that, to a degree, there doesn't need to be one. After all, our first Council of "people who are too old or crippled to do physical work" managed to do a pretty good job.
What matters far more I feel is making sure that the Council is set up that it's responsive to the complaints of the people and is able and willing to respond to them. After all, what seems to have destroyed the Dreamer Federation in terms of its internal issues wasn't that its leadership wasn't "high quality" enough, and more that the members of the Federation for various reasons seemed unable to work together and the Federation became too divided to cooperate.
TBH, I think trying to ensure we get the "optimal" Council of the Best People Possible is basically impossible. Union has a population of ~850 people who are a mixture of impoverished Anglo-French peasants, Native survivors, and a variety of African slaves, all of whom are massively traumatized and in a general survivalist situation, and the vast majority of whom have no formal education and the majority of whom have their daily lives occupied by work for immediate survival. There's nothing that even close to resembles an official pipeline for skilled administrators, and I feel that, to a degree, there doesn't need to be one. After all, our first Council of "people who are too old or crippled to do physical work" managed to do a pretty good job.
What matters far more I feel is making sure that the Council is set up that it's responsive to the complaints of the people and is able and willing to respond to them. After all, what seems to have destroyed the Dreamer Federation in terms of its internal issues wasn't that its leadership wasn't "high quality" enough, and more that the members of the Federation for various reasons seemed unable to work together and the Federation became too divided to cooperate.
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Honestly, considering the time period and how small we are, I think being in good standing with the community and wanting the job is enough for now.
We are still at the stage where everyone at least knows someone who knows a councilor. It will need to be revised when people actually need to campaign for the job, but for the foreseeable future we should be fine.
- Pronouns
- He
[X] Plan An Old Friend - Pelts and Deer
- Location
- some computer lab
[X] Plan An Old Friend - Pelts and Deer
- Location
- Philippines
[X] Plan An Old Friend - Wolves
[X] Plan An Old Friend - Wolves
[X] Plan An Old Friend - Pelts and Deer
- Location
- France
I will not answer
Also, for people asking, separation of power is done by default : someone in the Council cannot vote in the Assembly, and the Captain do not vote (even if Sara is massively influencal)
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Honestly I don't see how that's significant. The Council is much smaller than the Assembly. Any situation where the Council's votes in an Assembly vote are decisive would be one where the community as a whole is almost evenly split, but the Council is nearly united. That seems unlikely.
The captain not having a vote just seems like a weird symbolic gesture.
Frankly, "separation of powers" in a community this small is a bad idea almost by default, except insofar as the community should be clear on which offices hold which legal powers. "Voting" is not a power that needs to be 'separated' away from one 'branch' and given to another.
The captain not having a vote just seems like a weird symbolic gesture.
Frankly, "separation of powers" in a community this small is a bad idea almost by default, except insofar as the community should be clear on which offices hold which legal powers. "Voting" is not a power that needs to be 'separated' away from one 'branch' and given to another.
Is there support for raiding the vermin or tribute takers next turn?
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Current plan is a big Vermin-culling campaign next turn, and then the next year has major raids on the Tribute-Takers as a significant focus (with a couple dice to mop up what's left of the Vermin afterwards.)
Sounds wonderful, we should probably do our best to pick up malcolm too then so he can spend winter in a nice warm soft room not alone in the forrest where he can be killed and raised or turned against us.
Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
Your right, I'm getting too far into the weeds for how small out community is. We can probably deal with any big issues that come up on a case by case basis. It isn't like the laws we are creating are set in stone, so we can change them later.
On another note, I have a clarification question for @OldShadow. At the end of the original Anchorless vote it states,
I assume that this means that Sara could re-anchor the spirits to something else even if she anchors them to herself.