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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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fictionfan said:
1.Cyber Devils are super useful for basically everything a college student wants to do from researching papers to scheduling.
2. People get attached to them which in turn gets Molly a foot in the door for future deals.
3. They are loyal to Molly just in case Karl actually is a crazy warlock and we happened to miss it.
4.I have no idea how you think cyber devils don't help with knowledge, context, and precautions. We use them for that all the time. Also allows for options like allowing to call someone without actually giving Karl the number. It's a great way to give contacts and information in a controlled way.
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Ok. The first argument is compelling, as it doesn't actually cost us anything. The fourth one isn't, because we use them for publicly available knowledge. This isn't what Karl needs. He needs knowledge of Laws of Magic, who fae are, etc.

Still, ok

[X] Keep going down the list, maybe you'll find someone else like Karl in need of direction, maybe you'll find something worse
-[X] Use Karl as a crown focus to learn who or what created the Well he slipped into
-[X] Give him your, Order of Cauldron's and Jade Dogs (IRIS) contact information. Strongly advise him against making the deals with anyone or anything before he gets more context. Warn him about Daedalus and similar groups. Tell him about the Laws.
-[X] Offer to call up an assistant spirit into Karl's phone
-[X] Empathy excellency
-[X] [stunt]: "If you are interested in learning more about the world behind the curtain, in developing your abilities, and using them safely, call me. When given a choice, you've already proven yourself, after all. Just remember: It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
 
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Yog said:
Ok. The first argument is compelling, as it doesn't actually cost us anything. The fourth one isn't, because we use them for publicly available knowledge. This isn't what Karl needs. He needs knowledge of Laws of Magic, who fae are, etc.

Still, ok

[X] Keep going down the list, maybe you'll find someone else like Karl in need of direction, maybe you'll find something worse
-[X] Use Karl as a crown focus to learn who or what created the Well he slipped into
-[X] Give him your, Order of Cauldron's and Jade Dogs (IRIS) contact information. Strongly advise him against making the deals with anyone or anything before he gets more context. Warn him about Daedalus and similar groups.
-[X] Offer to call up an assistant spirit into Karl's phone
-[X] Empathy excellency
-[X] [stunt]: "If you are interested in learning more about the world behind the curtain, in developing your abilities, and using them safely, call me. When given a choice, you've already proven yourself, after all. Just remember: It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
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Can we please not include a Cyber-Devil?
 
Yog said:
Why? What's the argument against it?
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I already made this argument yesterday.

Basically, I don't think it's necessary or helpful for us to do so, and it could inadvertently make Karl a target since there is obviously some freaky shit going on at Harvard, and that is bound to attract attention of the supernatural variety. Once we're gone, Karl will be on his own with an HMP'd phone. Most beings can't sense Cyber-Devils, or spirits in general, but to those who can it will stand out like a sore thumb, and Karl is completely defenseless.

That's not to say we might not eventually HMP his phone, but I don't see the IC motivation to do it so suddenly after we just encountered the dude.
 
Yes you did.
Goldfish said:
I already made this argument yesterday.



Basically, I don't think it's necessary or helpful for us to do so, and it could inadvertently make Karl a target since there is obviously some freaky shit going on at Harvard, and that is bound to attract attention of the supernatural variety. Once we're gone, Karl will be on his own with an HMP'd phone. Most beings can't sense Cyber-Devils, or spirits in general, but to those who can it will stand out like a sore thumb, and Karl is completely defenseless.



That's not to say we might not eventually HMP his phone, but I don't see the IC motivation to do it so suddenly after we just encountered the dude.
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fictionfan said:
1.They are detectable, but not easy to detect. Someone with good enough senses to detect a cyber devil is likely to notice that Karl and his dogs are magic so the risk factor doesn't really go up.
2.The reason that we are interested in Harvard in the first place is that it is supposed to have been cleaned out so Karl's risk profile is even lower.
3. Evidence of Molly taking an interest in him is likely more protection on average then risk in general. Much like we would be less likely to mess with someone carrying a object of Winter or Summer or Odin power. Without it Karl is just a low power mage I.E. tasty prey. With it he is prey that another big predator has put their mark on. Assuming of course that they don't think Karl bound it. In which case he seems like a bigger fish and threat.
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And your points were swiftly shown to be without merit. And as just shown as well Cyber Devil's are in fact useful.

Also we can have Clippy quickly send the new Cyber devil a basic magic primer on stuff like the laws of magic.


[X] Keep going down the list, maybe you'll find someone else like Karl in need of direction, maybe you'll find something worse
-[X] Use Karl as a crown focus to learn who or what created the Well he slipped into
-[X] Give him your, Order of Cauldron's and Jade Dogs (IRIS) contact information. Strongly advise him against making the deals with anyone or anything before he gets more context. Warn him about Daedalus and similar groups.
-[X] Offer to call up an assistant spirit into Karl's phone
-[X] Empathy excellency
-[X] [stunt]: "If you are interested in learning more about the world behind the curtain, in developing your abilities, and using them safely, call me. When given a choice, you've already proven yourself, after all. Just remember: It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."




[X] Plan just a cyber devil
-[x]Keep going down the list, maybe you'll find someone else like Karl in need of direction, maybe you'll find something worse
-[x]"Can I install a useful app on your phone?"
--[x]If Karl agrees use HMP on his phone well wet
---[x][Stunt] "Alan Turing you are to serve Karl to the best of your ability."
----[x]If the binding isn't permanent tell Karl how long it will last and offer to renew at that time.
--[x][Stunt]"One more thing. Just as beliefs shape magic magic also shapes belief. You can only do things that you truly believe in which is self reinforcing in a really slippery slope so the White Council has 7 zero tolerance laws of magic. Clippy show the 7 laws on screen.". You hold up your phone. "If you break any of them against your fellow man they declare you a warlock and chop your head off. Alan will be able to give you more details"



[X] Plan all the offers
-[X]Keep going down the list, maybe you'll find someone else like Karl in need of direction, maybe you'll find something worse
-[x]"Can I install a useful app on your phone?"
--[x]If Karl agrees use HMP on his phone well wet
---[x][Stunt] "Alan Turing you are to serve Karl to the best of your ability."
----[x]If the binding isn't permanent tell Karl how long it will last and offer to renew at that time.
--[x][Stunt]"Also if you are ever considering leasing your soul for power please consider me before all other offers. I will give you a better deal then any of my competitors."
--[x] Elaborate the deal if he asks awakening the soul and control over that so long as he serves.
--[x][Stunt]"One more thing. Just as beliefs shape magic magic also shapes belief. You can only do things that you truly believe in which is self reinforcing in a really slippery slope so the White Council has 7 zero tolerance laws of magic. Clippy show the 7 laws on screen.". You hold up your phone. "If you break any of them against your fellow man they declare you a warlock and chop your head off. Of course if you take my deal that stops being a problem."

I would have had the stunt have Clippy send the Laws to Alan Turning, but I couldn't know when writing the stunt if Karl would accept.
 
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Goldfish said:
I already made this argument yesterday.

Basically, I don't think it's necessary or helpful for us to do so, and it could inadvertently make Karl a target since there is obviously some freaky shit going on at Harvard, and that is bound to attract attention of the supernatural variety. Once we're gone, Karl will be on his own with an HMP'd phone. Most beings can't sense Cyber-Devils, or spirits in general, but to those who can it will stand out like a sore thumb, and Karl is completely defenseless.

That's not to say we might not eventually HMP his phone, but I don't see the IC motivation to do it so suddenly after we just encountered the dude.
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Cyber devils are actually incredibly stealthy. So far, as I recall, only two people noticed them - a whampire elder who was there when we were summoning one, and Merling of the White Council, who only noticed because Harry was using a mobile phone in his presence, something which should have been impossible. On the other hand, Katrina Holt, a thousand year old demigod seer didn't notice one possessing her car and communicating with her enemies. Karl is frankly far, far below the notice of the beings who might plausibly notice our spirits. And even if they notice, it's at most a novel method of binding a minor spirit.

Karl has to worry about Daedalus, local minor warlocks and wildfae, not top level wardens and fae court queens. If he attracts their attention, he's screwed anyway. And we at least get a notice of him being screwed when the spirit returns to our anima or the Sanctuary and makes a report.

The "it's not really helpful to him" is a good argument, which is why I didn't put it in initially, and am not pushing for him to accept. Cyber devils would be helpful to have as a personal assistant, as an additional pair of eyes, and someone to talk to about mystic related stuff. They are not super relevant to him, yes, but they shouldn't be harmful.
fictionfan said:
Also we can have Clippy quickly send the new Cyber devil a basic magic primer on stuff like the laws of magic.
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That's a good idea, added telling him about the Laws to the vote.
 
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fictionfan said:
You say as a joke but you seem to believe in virtue ethic* well I am more consequentialist**. Which means that we are never going to agree, but also makes me wonder why you are playing a Infernal quest?

*the look of the thing vastly simplified
**the end results
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The consequences of what you do clearly matter, but so does what you're doing on its own. It's more a function where the weight on different inputs changes. Though really I'm more of a deontologist on average myself if we're breaking it out that way.

I'd also like to point out that label one ethical approach as the good one and another as the one for idiots on a categorical level like you have been is hilariously arrogant, thoughtless, and rude. If this was a simple topic with a clear best practice it wouldn't be a branch of philosophy explored all around the world from the earliest days of civilization.

I don't take issue with summoning as many cyber devils as we want, or even disagreeing with the idea that saving them from hell is itself a good thing. I take issue with seconding our absolute power over someone to a person we just met and then leaving.

Even if they aren't abused we'd still be failing a responsibility to them by leaving it to blind luck.

I think whipping out the moral imperative to save them only when you also want to do it for other reasons is a performatively self serving exploitation of how nasty their situation is.

Since it appears to be a matter of convenience that you don't even bring up at all the times it would be this seems more like a virtue signal you hang off otherwise insufficient arguments to distract from that fact than anything else.

To mutate the trolley problem a bit, we have an arbitrarily large number of trolleys crushing an arbitrarily large number of people. In context you're basically bringing up the moral imperative to save them only when you want a particular thing from the people you're saving more than you want to get something else for your time.

On a case by case basis there's an argument to be had, but if you're exclusively against stopping for lunch on days when you don't like the menu the aggregate hypocrisy of it undermines the point.

Either we have a strong obligation to act we've been failing spectacularly the whole quest or it's something we can be selective about and should treat seriously. There is no world where it's okay to be both careless and selective.
 
Yog said:
Cyber devils are actually incredibly stealthy. So far, as I recall, only two people noticed them - a whampire elder who was there when we were summoning one, and Merling of the White Council, who only noticed because Harry was using a mobile phone in his presence, something which should have been impossible
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Also a random sorcerer who happened to specialize in spirits. He was good, but it was his focus that was the important part.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I don't take issue with summoning as many cyber devils as we want, or even disagreeing with the idea that saving them from hell is itself a good thing. I take issue with seconding our absolute power over someone to a person we just met and then leaving.

Even if they aren't abused we'd still be failing a responsibility to them by leaving it to blind luck.
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Well, we do actually know his basic character, or can infer it. He passed the moral challenge posed by the mystic realm, and his greatest shame was not helping a dying person with his magic. That says something at least.

Still, there's something to say about this reasoning. HMP cyberdevils and ethics of compelled servitude. There's at least a grain of reason there. Still, it's important to remember, that unless spirit killing effects come into play, nothing that is done to the cyberdevil is going to be permanent, and, if we are sing Mikaboshi cyberdevils, nothing is likely to be as traumatizing as the base state of their existence from before they were summoned.

I think I'll lean towards keeping the offer in my vote, but it's a very close thing. And at least partially based on the more global agenda of slowly building practitioner networks backed with cyberdevil communication.

Also, if we go to Hardvard, we'll be seeing Karl again.
BronzeTongue said:
Also a random sorcerer who happened to specialize in spirits. He was good, but it was his focus that was the important part.
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I forgot about that. Was it from far away?
 
Yog said:
Well, we do actually know his basic character, or can infer it. He passed the moral challenge posed by the mystic realm, and his greatest shame was not helping a dying person with his magic. That says something at least.

Still, there's something to say about this reasoning. HMP cyberdevils and ethics of compelled servitude. There's at least a grain of reason there. Still, it's important to remember, that unless spirit killing effects come into play, nothing that is done to the cyberdevil is going to be permanent, and, if we are sing Mikaboshi cyberdevils, nothing is likely to be as traumatizing as the base state of their existence from before they were summoned.

I think I'll lean towards keeping the offer in my vote, but it's a very close thing. And at least partially based on the more global agenda of slowly building practitioner networks backed with cyberdevil communication.
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I see where you're coming from, and it's not necessarily everything about the situation that's a problem. I'm just thinking about what standards I'd hold someone to if they had that power over me.

In exchange for a rescue from hell I think I'd give a lot. I'd probably give it and be genuinely grafted in doing so, even if the price was indefinite service. But what I'd hope for, what would transmute that gratitude into personal loyalty, would be that profound power being treated with the respect due to an entire person's life being in your hands even when it didn't have to be.

My view on the ethics of this is that while it's permissible to do things other than rescue people from hell for various reasons once we take on some roles we have an obligation to a certain amount of respect and reverence for what we hold in our hands.

What this means changes with context.

I don't necessarily have a problem with say putting a cyber devil in a bank to mess with stuff, a satellite to spy on people, or in a weapons platform for them to operate on our behalf*. For the purposes of the paranet specifically cyber devil backing still seems viable to me, though I hope we can find a way to break their limits a bit as we do that.

I guess getting right down to the root of things I have two primary issues here; one that's a matter of distaste and another that's an ethical violation.

The first and more minor of the two is that I don't like handing them out so casually. Yeah a cyber devil would help this guy, but why is that a value function for us? Not in terms of greed, but in terms of respect for lack of a better term. I'm struggling to express it, but I'd put more thought into giving someone a kitten I found in a wet cardboard box than this vote treats thinking beings with and that seems wrong to me.

This plays into my major issue here - leaving them almost wholly under his power. Even when we summon them for trivial stuff I still see us as having and monitoring our obligation to them in turn. By giving that order in that manner we're seconding our authority without ensuring the fulfillment of our responsibility.

"He seems like a good guy" doesn't make the grade for me, and while the ends matter they aren't the only thing that does.

To draw another example; driving drunk is in all but the most ridiculously contrived edge cases morally wrong every time someone does it and not just when something goes wrong. The risk you're taking and the lack of regard for others are themselves faults.


* Though on reflection I'm more uncomfortable with things like missiles than I expected at first brush despite them being immune to actually being hurt this way. It's irrational, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to shake that bias off.
Yog said:
I forgot about that. Was it from far away?
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Not exactly. Conversational distance on his porch if I recall correctly. He did however do so while Clippy was in Molly's pocket and acting about as passively as a mundane phone.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Reminder HMP was changed to Molly creating new spirits, akin to SUTRA from her realm.
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She can do that, but Molly decided that as a rule she would rather summon from the wicked city even if it is like trying to dry the ocean with an styrofoam cup.

How is Karl supposed to go about abusing the cyber devil anyway? Even assuming the guy with two dogs which like him would want to.
 
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Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Mar 23, 2024 at 12:30 PM, finished with 81 posts and 14 votes.
  • [X] Keep going down the list, maybe you'll find someone else like Karl in need of direction, maybe you'll find something worse
    -[X] Use Karl as a crown focus to learn who or what created the Well he slipped into
    -[X] Give him your, Order of Cauldron's and Jade Dogs (IRIS) contact information. Strongly advise him against making the deals with anyone or anything before he gets more context. Warn him about Daedalus and similar groups. Tell him about the Laws.
    -[X] Offer to call up an assistant spirit into Karl's phone
    -[X] Empathy excellency
    -[X] [stunt]: "If you are interested in learning more about the world behind the curtain, in developing your abilities, and using them safely, call me. When given a choice, you've already proven yourself, after all. Just remember: It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
    [X] Plan just a cyber devil
    -[x]Keep going down the list, maybe you'll find someone else like Karl in need of direction, maybe you'll find something worse
    -[x]"Can I install a useful app on your phone?"
    --[x]If Karl agrees use HMP on his phone well wet
    ---[x][Stunt] "Alan Turing you are to serve Karl to the best of your ability."
    ----[x]If the binding isn't permanent tell Karl how long it will last and offer to renew at that time.
    --[x][Stunt]"One more thing. Just as beliefs shape magic magic also shapes belief. You can only do things that you truly believe in which is self reinforcing in a really slippery slope so the White Council has 7 zero tolerance laws of magic. Clippy show the 7 laws on screen.". You hold up your phone. "If you break any of them against your fellow man they declare you a warlock and chop your head off. Alan will be able to give you more details"
    [X] Plan all the offers
    -[x]Keep going down the list, maybe you'll find someone else like Karl in need of direction, maybe you'll find something worse
    -[x]"Can I install a useful app on your phone?"
    --[x]If Karl agrees use HMP on his phone well wet
    ---[x][Stunt] "Alan Turing you are to serve Karl to the best of your ability."
    ----[x]If the binding isn't permanent tell Karl how long it will last and offer to renew at that time.
    --[x][Stunt]"Also if you are ever considering leasing your soul for power please consider me before all other offers. I will give you a better deal then any of my competitors."
    --[x] Elaborate the deal if he asks awakening the soul and control over that so long as he serves.
    --[x][Stunt]"One more thing. Just as beliefs shape magic magic also shapes belief. You can only do things that you truly believe in which is self reinforcing in a really slippery slope so the White Council has 7 zero tolerance laws of magic. Clippy show the 7 laws on screen.". You hold up your phone. "If you break any of them against your fellow man they declare you a warlock and chop your head off. Of course if you take my deal that stops being a problem."
    [X] Keep going down the list, maybe you'll find someone else like Karl in need of direction, maybe you'll find something worse
    -[X] Use Karl as a crown focus to learn who or what created the Well he slipped into
    -[X] Give him your, Order of Cauldron's and Jade Dogs (IRIS) contact information. Strongly advise him against making the deals with anyone or anything before he gets more context. Warn him about Daedalus and similar groups.
    -[X] Offer to call up an assistant spirit into Karl's phone
    -[X] Empathy excellency
    -[X] [stunt]: "If you are interested in learning more about the world behind the curtain, in developing your abilities, and using them safely, call me. When given a choice, you've already proven yourself, after all. Just remember: It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
    [X] Keep going down the list, maybe you'll find someone else like Karl in need of direction, maybe you'll find something worse
    [X] Now that you know it's some kind of test and that it works on mortal magicians, why not see what a wizard of your acquaintance
    -[X] Harry Dresden
    [X] Keep going down the list, maybe you'll find someone else like Karl in need of direction, maybe you'll find something worse
    -[X] Use Karl as a crown focus to learn who or what created the Well he slipped into
    -[X] Give him your, Order of Cauldron's and Jade Dogs (IRIS) contact information. Strongly advise him against making the deals with anyone or anything before he gets more context. Warn him about Daedalus and similar groups.
    -[X] Empathy excellency
    -[X] [stunt]: "If you are interested in learning more about the world behind the curtain, in developing your abilities, and using them safely, call me. When given a choice, you've already proven yourself, after all. Just remember: It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
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BronzeTongue said:
I see where you're coming from, and it's not necessarily everything about the situation that's a problem. I'm just thinking about what standards I'd hold someone to if they had that power over me.

In exchange for a rescue from hell I think I'd give a lot. I'd probably give it and be genuinely grafted in doing so, even if the price was indefinite service. But what I'd hope for, what would transmute that gratitude into personal loyalty, would be that profound power being treated with the respect due to an entire person's life being in your hands even when it didn't have to be.

My view on the ethics of this is that while it's permissible to do things other than rescue people from hell for various reasons once we take on some roles we have an obligation to a certain amount of respect and reverence for what we hold in our hands.

What this means changes with context.

I don't necessarily have a problem with say putting a cyber devil in a bank to mess with stuff, a satellite to spy on people, or in a weapons platform for them to operate on our behalf*. For the purposes of the paranet specifically cyber devil backing still seems viable to me, though I hope we can find a way to break their limits a bit as we do that.

I guess getting right down to the root of things I have two primary issues here; one that's a matter of distaste and another that's an ethical violation.

The first and more minor of the two is that I don't like handing them out so casually. Yeah a cyber devil would help this guy, but why is that a value function for us? Not in terms of greed, but in terms of respect for lack of a better term. I'm struggling to express it, but I'd put more thought into giving someone a kitten I found in a wet cardboard box than this vote treats thinking beings with and that seems wrong to me.

This plays into my major issue here - leaving them almost wholly under his power. Even when we summon them for trivial stuff I still see us as having and monitoring our obligation to them in turn. By giving that order in that manner we're seconding our authority without ensuring the fulfillment of our responsibility.

"He seems like a good guy" doesn't make the grade for me, and while the ends matter they aren't the only thing that does.

To draw another example; driving drunk is in all but the most ridiculously contrived edge cases morally wrong every time someone does it and not just when something goes wrong. The risk you're taking and the lack of regard for others are themselves faults.


* Though on reflection I'm more uncomfortable with things like missiles than I expected at first brush despite them being immune to actually being hurt this way. It's irrational, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to shake that bias off.
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Ok, let's talk about responsbilities and limitations. There are several things to note:

1) Cyber devils are not human. They are:
a) immortal both in terms of age and in terms of surviving the damage to their physical vessels. If the phone or a laptop or whatever other piece of equipment they are in gets destroyed, they return to either our anima, or Sanctuary if they are from there. Spirit killing charms change that, but we can dismiss them in this case, as implausible. In terms of age, a mobile phone is likely to survive for less than a decade, which, for inherently immortal spirit, should not be a lengthy time.
b) In case of Wicked City native devils, they are also native of an inherently torturous environment. Both Wicked City and Sanctuary originated city originated cyber devils, they are clearly neuro divergent from humans. For example, as I understand it, they don't suffer from boredom, and have unlimited attention span.

2) In this particular situation, a cyberdevil will have an out in the form of bricking the phone they are in. Binding rituals change the equation in some ways, but, again, not plausibly relevant here

3) There is an argument to be made that when it comes to Sanctuary-native spirits, Molly has a right, and, in fact, an obligation, to assign unpleasant, dangerous and even suicidal tasks to them if such tasks further her own well-being and, to extend that, agenda. Because to Molly-the-Primordial spirits of Sanctuary are as blood cells (or gut flora) to humans. And Molly is aware of that on some level. So, just as a human has a right and, one could argue, obligation, to amputate a leg caught under a tree to get out of a trap and survive, so might Molly require to command individual spirits to perform unpleasant tasks.

Respecting sapient beings is very important, but it shouldn't prevent Molly from acting in certain situations.

Now, to be clear, I don't think this is one of such situations, as Karl passes at least initial checks. But it's still an important point that needs remembering.

4) We are actually interested in keeping Karl and other practitioners alive, and, ideally, as parts of interconnected network. He is in potential danger from outside parties and for himself, as a magic practitioner capable of violating the Laws. Getting him a cyber devil to keep an eye out on him and call for help if needed costs us nothing and potentially averts certain future problems.
 
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Arc 12 Post 17: Of Witnesses Departed
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    • Of Witnesses Departed​

    23st of January 2007 A.D.

    Who dug the well from which this man has drunk? The question is writ in burning essence upon the world... alas with the answer you had expected and only that:

    Johann of Cleves, Warlock, Madman, Lover of Flame

    Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 8/15 (Crown Question)

    With that you have yourself dug about as far can be done here, pleasant as the company may have been you still have a mystery to solve.

    "Soo... if you are interested in learning more about the world behind the curtain, in developing your abilities, and using them safely, call me. When given a choice, you've already proven yourself, after all. Just remember: It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."It is with these words and a shinny new business card in green and black that you leave Karl Bennet, though not a demon in his phone.

    You had not pushed what could have been, in some ways would have been a live in spy, on a guy you just met instead going over their capabilities and nature. 'Spirit' rather than demon had been the word of the day of course, and perhaps more fitting for it. Unlike Clippy and her fellows called forth from the tangled data webs of the wicked city the SUTRAs of Sanctuary are purposeful and integrated into the society of your world.

    "Thanks I'll look you up," his parting words sound a mite defeated... and being honest with yourself it's not hard to guess why, you just dread the teasing.

    "Well," Lydia brushes off her hands for a job well done. "I hope the others were as lucky as him."

    Right, neither of them are like Izzy, you remember with a jolt. She would have loved to see Boston, but you could not take her, not this weekend, not dealing with magic and its hidden world.

    "So the Internet's a bust," you say, slipping into the driver's seat of Black Rider and snapping on the safety belt, both formalities. "Dead people grapevine?"

    "This is an old city, for the New World at least and Harvard one of the oldest parts of it. There are sure to be some lingering about, but I can't just summon them to me with a snap of my fingers. I need to be on campus in a place where no one would be overly disturbed by the sight of the departed and... oh I know, we can have a seance. Loneliness if oft the burden of those who linger."

    "I don't think Harvard does seances," you shake your head. "We are going to have to trick or sneak our way onto campus."

    "I'm better at sneaking," Olivia offers

    "And I am better at disguises, now at least," you explain. "Well that or I could use the plumbing " Summoning ghosts in a bathroom sounds great until you remember that bathrooms would all be in use and while you could vanish in an out in a matter of moments, getting Lydia and Olivia out though Sanctuary would take as much as a fifteen minutes.

    No it would be safer to either sneak into some nook no one is watching nor listening to for ghostly visitations or Margret Carver needs to make a second appearance in her sharp suit and heels.

    How do you go about contacting the dead?

    [] Sneak in
    -[] Just use the RVD with a pass through your realm, you are sure you can stall if need be
    -[] Write in plan

    [] Trick the staff into giving you admission
    -[] Make use of Margret Carver CEO again
    -[] Write in plan

    [] Actually you've had another idea
    -[] Write in

    OOC: A bit of a short update but I needed a bridge here so we do not jump from Karl right to the Minion Impossible theme playing or something
     
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    • fictionfan said:
    Actually no. Despite Olivia's very impressive sneaking skills I don't think that it matches up to ATP.
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    That's actually arguable. ATP can get better thanks to exalted dicepools and difficulty adjusters, but the "can roll willpower if Exalted does distressing stuff" makes ATP more situational. Olivia might well be better at stuff like setting up mines all across a building.
     
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