What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?


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For the Aries, if we want to keep it as a skirmisher and lean into that role more, just add more macrocannon turrets as we get DP plus the autoloader. At the very least the Aries will help bring down shields and open the way for the Sagittarius frigates' prow lance.

Could go like this once we have another DP:

Aries II-class Corvette
-Length - 1.300m
-Width - 300m
-Acceleration - 7 Gravities
-Armor - Single Hull
-Shields - Two Emitters
-Weapons - 2x Light Macro-Cannon Turret/Light Lance Turret
-Equipment - Armored Lifepods/Advanced Alloying/Auto-loaders/Gravimetric Engine Calculation

Cost: 6 DP (we currently start with 5 for a Destroyer)

Or we can go with adding another macrocannon turret to give it 3 macro turrets and a lance turret and not have the gravimetric engine calc:

Aries II-class Corvette (triple macro version)
-Length - 1.300m
-Width - 300m
-Acceleration - 7 Gravities
-Armor - Single Hull
-Shields - Two Emitters
-Weapons - 3x Light Macro-Cannon Turret/Light Lance Turret
-Equipment - Armored Lifepods/Advanced Alloying/Auto-loaders
 
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I mean, I do agree that some degree of specialization is needed, but the question is "Is this a permanent choice that we can never step away from", or can we pivot down the line? Because what's good against Orks isn't necessarily good against the Imperium or Chaos
I think we really need to sit down and think about what our gimmick should be, each faction has their own and so far we've tried to be a general all rounder with a penchant for speed, but it has left us with ships that are a little underwhelming due to the tech level since we can't make really make something without any weaknesses while still being able to duke it out with other established factions. This is what I've been trying to say, if we want our ships to stand a chance, we'll need them to specialize so they can actually be good at something and weak at others instead of just being "meh".

EDIT

Or we can go with adding another macrocannon turret to give it 3 macro turrets and a lance turret and not have the gravimetric engine calc:
Or we just give it two rotary macro turrets and remove the lance, for maximum "BBBRRRRRRT" to chip away at shields.
 
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When we finally unlock Light Cruisers I'm kinda hoping that our first light cruiser design will be a carrier because we've seen repeatedly that our strikecraft have a big edge against the Orks.

And with how haphazard Ork ships are built they are also vulnerable to strikecraft critseeking

I don't think we have a strong enough frontline for our first light cruiser to be a dedicated carrier. I really think it should be some kind of close to mid range brawler that can anchor our battleline. Something like the Imperium's Dauntless.
 
I think we really need to sit down and think about what our gimmick should be, each faction has their own and so far we've tried to be a general all rounder with a penchant for speed, but it has left us with ships that are a little underwhelming due to the tech level since we can't make really make something without any weaknesses while still being able to duke it out with other established factions. This is what I've been trying to say, if we want our ships to stand a chance, we'll need them to specialize so they can actually be good at something and weak at others instead of just being "meh".

Our Tech Level is great, the problem is that our dudes are absolute garbage at making ships. I'm all for a Carrier based "Modern Naval War" style paradigm myself, where we have light destroyers/frigates that screen for our heavy frigates that exist to project power with. Everyone else in 40K still works on WW2 naval doctrine, and we know the Imperium specifically has a Doctrinal Problem with Carriers (Namely: That Carriers are for nerds and real men use Big Gun warships).

Honestly, I think I'm going to formalize that.

[X] Plan: Fleet Carrier Doctrine
--[X] Ultimately, we cannot afford to engage in warfare with other significant powers on a ton-to-ton basis, we will never be able to match their capacity to simply pour greater quantities of industry into the forges of war, using whatever means they are--inherited legacies, genetic memory, or sheer industrial mass. As such, our only hope to endure in the long run is to strike in a fashion that our foes cannot easily react to. The success of the Taurus-class despite having only a single vessel has shown that a well-equipped, elite strike wing can punch well above its on-paper weight class, especially with our understanding of the secrets of the machine and the faith of our crews. This is an advantage that should be cultivated whenever possible for the foreseeable future, even if we must make sacrifices in armor strength to achieve this goals. (STRENGTH: Strike Fighter Related Modules and Weapons are discounted. WEAKNESS: Vessels that are equipped for use as Carriers find it difficult to add additional armor, all non-Escort class hulls must have at least one proper Strike Fighter related Weapon)
--[X] The fleet of the Candle Keepers is a force of Liberation, to bring the Star Child's light to those who toil under the weight of wicked forces and bring them low before they can bring harm to the innocent. [EXPLORATION/EXPANSION Doctrine, Power Projection in general rather than getting stuck in on the homefront and hoping for the best]

I've examined it and discovered that nobody in 40K really uses Strike Craft as a mainstay of their doctrine. Eldar have very good Strike Craft but are rarely deployed in great numbers due to how casualty averse they are (Especially when Eldar Doctrine boils down to "Zoom in on the other guy from stealth, hit them with an entire half-hour's worth of firepower in a single salvo, then do a 180 turn on a dime and zoom away before they can orient their guns back towards you, repeat until Total Victory--if the other side manages to spoil you, Just Fucking Die because your ships are made of cardboard and crumple on the slightest amount of actual firepower.) The Imperium can do good Strike Craft but generally downplay it as a major point of doctrine because it's on the losing end of a long running debate among its admiralty, and besides that, strike craft are expensive and the Imperium generally isn't willing to put in more than the bare minimum of training for someone who might just die if anything goes wrong. The Tau are ultimately a small power in the grand scheme of things (And even then, they trend towards having fast moving ships with heavy guns and use strike craft as screens more than anything else, outside the Mantas which are extremely expensive), and the Orks... Well, they can do Strike Craft and do--but as we've seen, they're not great at it and mostly get by in Sheer Numbers.

It's a niche that we can exploit, and as long as we aren't dumb about it, we can probably leverage it well. The Taurus has shown that our Strike Fighters are serious business after all, and it lets our general tech advantage be more telling simply because we can give our dudes the equipment they need to excel in that field, without running into the Problems of Scale that our Warships apparently do.

That aside, the general thrust of this is "Escorts as screening elements (Destroyers/Frigates), with our proper Capital Ships all being capable of at least servicing a strike-wing, ranging from a full out Fleet Carrier that does nothing else, to a more Battlestar-type that's willing to pay the added expense to be tough and well armored while still holding a fearsome strike wing.

That this is also--broadly--the paradigm that's used in the Gundam franchise is just a coincidence >_>

Even with that aside, we're still not going to be as frail as the Eldar are if something can pin us down. Our ships are actually made to win rather than assume Bad Things don't happen to us. Taking a few hits is unavoidable even if you can keep your distance. The point is not taking more than you can handle.
 
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[X] Plan: Fleet Carrier Doctrine

I like it. It'll mean that the heavy metal will likely have less guns than the equivalent of our opponents but we should be fine. Especially against Orks and Chaos.

Edit: we'll still need battleships and cruisers to protect our fleet carriers, but this still works.
 
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Honestly, I think I'm going to formalize that.

[X] Plan: Fleet Carrier Doctrine
Looking at this, there are some weaknesses, namely if we were to go against Astarte or Eldar fighters it would be difficult since they are damn good at what they do and Necrons would absolutely fuck us with their Starpulse Waves which instantly annihilate ordinance and fighter craft near them. But this could work.
 
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Looking at this, there are some weaknesses, namely if we were to go against Astarte or Eldar fighters it would be difficult since they are damn good at what they do and Necrons would absolutely fuck us with their Starpulse Waves which instantly annihilate ordinance and fighter craft near them. But this could work.

Those are problems for the us who are a Great Power, not the us who barely even show up on the subsector map.

You can't say that the absolute top end of the setting countering this means that it's not worth trying. Necrons beat everyone in space for instance, and Astartes and Craftworld Aspect Warrior level pilots and strike fighters have bigger fires to put out than us.
 
I mean, I did ask you what a good ranged artillery option was for anti shield work, and you said Missiles would work, so...
I understood "suppressing" to mean "prevent them from regenerating at worst" which missiles will do thanks to chip-damage as some will go through, but missiles shine in ranges where they have to travel less and are thus less likely to be shot by fightes/AMS.

Just woke up, btw, so I still need to read through the thread. I'll get to any questions I've missed once I've done that.
@HeroCooky what DP effect would a Expansion or Expeditionary focus have for our ship designs?
Engines, Life Support, Shields, and On-Board Manufacturing would be discounted, high-tech equipment like Teleportariums and Lances would cost more.

the question is "Is this a permanent choice that we can never step away from", or can we pivot down the line?
You can chuck this whole thing into the bin with one neat little [Write-In Action: Chuck/Change the Doctrine] in a plan.
 
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Just woke up, btw, so I still need to read through the thread. I'll get to any questions I've missed once I've done that.Engines, Life Support, Shields, and On-Board Manufacturing would be discounted, high-tech equipment like Teleportariums and Lances would cost more.
Huh. So Expansion/Expeditionary would bias toward a speedy shield-focused macrocannon or strikecraft ships that can operate for a fair amount of time away from port. Interesting.

Is @Alectai 's Fleet Carrier Doctrine a valid write in?
 
It is. And as for the Gundam bit...I do like my big stompy mechs...>.>
Would be hilarious to develop Mobile Suits to use.

Some Tau salvage to study and maybe. Or hell, some radical Mechanicus wants to venerate the human form and decide to make Knights in Space! would work too. Maybe once we develop the military industry more and there's some slack in production, workers decide to experiment.
 
[X] Plan: Fleet Carrier Doctrine

We might need to change things up if we ever manage to become more significant, but I like this for the time being at least.
 
Well, we still got a satisfactory doctrine for our current need here, and I set things up so we at least have the freedom to still build Frigates/Destroyers that aren't necessarily carriers (Though we can give them a strike wing relatively cheaply if we want.)

Which the whole "Modern Naval Doctrine" thing covers. Destroyers and Frigates are screening elements for the heavier Carrier ships. Even the famed Emperor-class Battleship of the Imperium--while an excellent Carrier--still doesn't fully commit to the bit, since it also has a strong close in macroweapon battery and heavy armor plating--as well as only eight wings of strike craft. Now, while 40K strike craft are much bigger than modern day aircraft, it's still somewhat telling that a dedicated, Supercapital scale voidship can only field the same air wing as a Gerald R. Ford-class despite having hundreds of times the mass.

So, we'll need to revisit the Sagi and the Aries, but I'm confident the block two versions will be effective by converting to Light Lances and Rotary MC/Medium Lance respectively, or if we still don't have that 6th DP we can avoid upgrading the Lance in favor of giving it Autoloaders to maximize its ability to punish Orks that it can get to the rear arc on, while keeping its shields suppressed and hopefully ablating its close in armaments.
 
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