Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
-[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM whenever possible.
-[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
—[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.
 
[X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
--[X] use MiM whenever possible.
-[x]After finishing him move among the outsider. You need to draw aggro.
-[x][Stunt]The walls against the monsters of the deep waste are not passive structures. They are actively maned with balistraria allowing the defenders to fire without exposing themselves. And so they also do today to defend against another monster. You agents instinctively move into the firing positions with the ease of long forgotten, but still instinctive drill.

We only have one attack per turn, but we are fast and have a completely full health track that doesn't matter*. Might as well tank as much as possible.

*Shintai form health track disappears as soon as we turn back with any possible wounds we might have.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Anaja on Feb 21, 2024 at 9:08 PM, finished with 77 posts and 10 votes.

  • [X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
    -[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM whenever possible.
    -[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
    —[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.
    [X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
    --[X] use MiM whenever possible.
    -[X]After finishing him move among the outsider. You need to draw aggro.
    -[X][Stunt]The walls against the monsters of the deep waste are not passive structures. They are actively maned with balistraria allowing the defenders to fire without exposing themselves. And so they also do today to defend against another monster. You agents instinctively move into the firing positions with the ease of long forgotten, but still instinctive drill.
    [X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
    -[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM with occult excellency if he's a valid target
    -[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
    —[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.
    [X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
 
[X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
-[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM whenever possible.
-[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
—[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.
 
[X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
-[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM whenever possible.
-[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
—[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.
 
So what's the getaway plan once out of essence?
Well if we are trying to escape then CCC actives and I pity anything that tries to get in Molly's way. If they place caves in or something then TLF activates. Not sure what we will do then, but Molly will be rolling 10+ success at that point without excellencies I am sure we will manage something.
 
So what's the getaway plan once out of essence?
CONSUMMEEEE. Though in all seriousness our melee Excellency last long enough even if we spent our last Essence on it we will be able to kill enough lesser Outsiders to be back in half pool considering there are nine of them left. Next turn it's looking like the dragon and Sandra are going to fall the dragon to death, Sandra either unconscious or getting her head cracked by Lydia to be frank I'm ambivalent on which one is better. Then it's a rip roaring windy Rampage the wind with teeth time at which point we consume everything.
 
We already have all this:
RaW is that all clones are mortal versions of the exalt with no charm effects or equipment. Technically you have a better argument they spawn naked than that they're actually useful.

We have further rulings from the last time you asked about this on how they have to learn how to do anything supernatural like a mortal would and our skills are only partially transferable because essence isn't chi or whatever else.
They're slightly improved from base because DP gave them access to our passives, but that's it.
*checks*
No you are misremembering.
Thats true for the permanent clones that we create for 5 motes. Not for the ones created automatically during Shintai as scene-long manifestations that vanish after the scene.

It was 2022 when we last had this discussion, so its entirely reasonable for memories to have faded a wee bit.


People know about fey, they talk to them and see them use their powers. I don't buy the idea that archspheres could just sit in someone's back pocket forever and I don't think you really do either.

You've been citing examples to try and convince us they're being actively used this whole discussion after all.
It's just that you've failed to make a case that requires their full abilities and explains why all the other things they do just magically didn't come up until an exalt entered the room.
Some people know about the Fae and their true function.
Just like some people knew about the Blackstaff. Like some people knew about Demonreach. Like some people knew about the Archive's true function. Like some people knew about the Starborn.

All things Dresden knew nothing about until fairly recently. Some of which he still knows fuckall about.
And as long as he remains our primary PoV character, we (mostly) share his level of knowledge.
Or lack of it.

Even in Chicago there is at least one nameless resident Finnish god/demigod wizard person and his hag assistant that has been in residence in his own backyard since the attack on Arctis Tor in Proven Guilty, and Dresden neither heard of nor met him/them until after Battle Grounds.

Dude was a Mafia lawyer taking high profile cases for the Chicago Outfit for eight years and Harry the PI had no clue.
Eight. Years.
Dresden knew nothing about a god living openly in his backyard for eight years.

Yes, some of this is explained by narrative convenience, to allow the author to introduce new local characters.
But IC, it doesnt look great.


======
I am telling you that in ExWoD, its just flatout stated that Archmages exist.
E5 Celestial Exalts are explicitly calibrated to Arete 10 archmages and Dharma 10 arhats for the purposes of some mechanical interactions in ExWoD:
Therefore:
In general, if something is asking you to roll or establish a difficulty based on some trait an Exalt simply does not have, use Willpower instead.

In general, if something seems to be designed to have balanced, resistible or recoverable effects against a certain type of targets, while other, low-value targets just get screwed hard, treat Exalts as though they fall into whatever category of being doesn't get shafted as badly.

In general, when dealing with absolute effects, if one of the night people has a power that says it turns you into a pig, and an Exalt has a power that says it stops people from turning you into a pig, the Exalt's power wins. If two Exalts throw absolute effects at one another, whichever seems more like a defense wins. If neither seems that way, make a contested Willpower roll to see who wins.

Finally, some powers (such as Dominate) concern themselves with how powerful their target is, according to a game's central ranking for power. Exalts don't have a place in those particular continuums of power, but the charts on the next page show how they stack up if you want to see if, say, an Exalt is immune to Dominate, or if a spirit's curse washes off of them like water off a duck's back.

These charts, it should be noted, are intended to be used to calibrate mechanical interactions, not to say that an Essence 5 Solar is equal to an Arete 10 archmage in a fight.
Celestial Exalted Power Equivalence
EssenceGenerationRankAreteDharma
18222
27344
36466
45588
5461010


Terrestrial Exalted Power Equivalence
EssenceGenerationRankAreteDharma
111121
210232
39343
48454
57565
It explicitly says not to assume that one beats the other though.

Regardless, at the point where the threat profile includes Antediluvians and Arhats from the WoD side, as well as Great Dragons, Fallen Angels and Lovecraftian demon gods on the Dresden side, I think the argument about Arch-Spheres being too powerful for the setting is moot.



As I said, excellency can be triggered on a roll. So if MiM works we spend and if it doesn't we shouldn't.
If we can use MiM we should use excellency, because it seems unlikely we'll ever get away with using it unsupported against a named antagonist again.
*shrug*
Said my piece.
 
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So what's the getaway plan once out of essence?
Regain WP for reinforcing her Michael Intimacy by saving Vegas.
Use that Willpower to activate Tool Constructs and sanitize the ritual site. Probably talk to the Sin-Eater.
Walk out with prisoner.

Probably summon Maeve and kick over the Outsider mage.
Spend 30 minutes in a bottle of bleach to recover Essence, then send the Hand home.

Pick up Mutt.
Spend the remainder of your booked stay at the Luxor, and while the others get some sleep, Molly can make calls and sound the all clear. Get everyone home in the morning.

Go to school late on Monday morning. Sleep through morning classes because you forgot to make your malcoffee. :V
 
Wake Up, Save The World, Go To School.
Tale as old as time, simple as can be.
If we get VEE before the end of the school year I say we should just bribe the teacher to give Molly A's across the board and always marked present.

At this point I think even our parents might find it a little odd that we are still going to school.
________________
Hand of Gently Falling Ash and the other agents all deserve metals after this. In fact this battle is likely going to be made into its own holoshow.
 
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We may want to stick around to recharge then try dealing with whatever Outsiders is on the other side.

Is what I would say if we didn't already use Shintai twice this Arc. We should help the Sin-Eater find a replacement Dragon that way we get a say and then try dealing with whatever Outsider is on the other side so it's not just sitting over there but idk if it's worth bothering with. From what I understand it'll probably just get replaced...
 
We may want to stick around to recharge then try dealing with whatever Outsiders is on the other side.

Is what I would say if we didn't already use Shintai twice this Arc. We should help the Sin-Eater find a replacement Dragon that way we get a say and then try dealing with whatever Outsider is on the other side so it's not just sitting over there but idk if it's worth bothering with. From what I understand it'll probably just get replaced...
We will likely do it by god crafting.
 
We should also see if we can figure out who exactly tried to save that Blampire from getting eaten by Molly. If you interfere with Molly's meals, you end up her next one.
 
I am telling you that in ExWoD, its just flatout stated that Archmages exist.
E5 Celestial Exalts are explicitly calibrated to Arete 10 archmages and Dharma 10 arhats for the purposes of some mechanical interactions in ExWoD:
Therefore:
In general, if something is asking you to roll or establish a difficulty based on some trait an Exalt simply does not have, use Willpower instead.

In general, if something seems to be designed to have balanced, resistible or recoverable effects against a certain type of targets, while other, low-value targets just get screwed hard, treat Exalts as though they fall into whatever category of being doesn't get shafted as badly.

In general, when dealing with absolute effects, if one of the night people has a power that says it turns you into a pig, and an Exalt has a power that says it stops people from turning you into a pig, the Exalt's power wins. If two Exalts throw absolute effects at one another, whichever seems more like a defense wins. If neither seems that way, make a contested Willpower roll to see who wins.

Finally, some powers (such as Dominate) concern themselves with how powerful their target is, according to a game's central ranking for power. Exalts don't have a place in those particular continuums of power, but the charts on the next page show how they stack up if you want to see if, say, an Exalt is immune to Dominate, or if a spirit's curse washes off of them like water off a duck's back.

These charts, it should be noted, are intended to be used to calibrate mechanical interactions, not to say that an Essence 5 Solar is equal to an Arete 10 archmage in a fight. Celestial Exalted Power Equivalence
EssenceGenerationRankAreteDharma
18222
27344
36466
45588
5461010


Terrestrial Exalted Power Equivalence
EssenceGenerationRankAreteDharma
111121
210232
39343
48454
57565
It explicitly says not to assume that one beats the other though.

Regardless, at the point where the threat profile includes Antediluvians and Arhats from the WoD side, as well as Great Dragons, Fallen Angels and Lovecraftian demon gods on the Dresden side, I think the argument about Arch-Spheres being too powerful for the setting is moot.
Yes, Mages with Arete over 5 exist.

Mages with Arch Spheres don't though.
Holden's own opinion on Arch-spheres from the FAQ at the end of the book:
Yeah okay but have you seen the kind of bullshit the Arch-Spheres are capable of?
I've read Masters of the Art, yeah. Exalted vs World of Darkness is calibrated against M20, though, and although M20 is probably never going to come right out and officially de-canonize them, we're almost surely never going to see the Arch-Spheres again. They were inserted into Masters of the Art at the behest of White Wolf's marketing department, who thought cool elder powers would boost sales, despite the objections of literally everyone else involved. Satyros Phil Brucato hates them and thinks they shouldn't exist; even Jesse Heinig doesn't much care for them, and he developed Masters of the Art. So my stance is generally that I've opted to largely not worry about Archmasters, and you probably shouldn't either. Regular Masters are plenty to keep the Exalted busy

Edit: When he talks about manipulating Exaltations he says it needs something like Spirit 5 / Prime 5 and the Exaltation hits back like an Arete 10 foe.
Not that any higher spheres are involved, or should be.
 
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You dont need Quintessence, but you still need power.
Less if the level of the Rote involved is low level, but its not literally being conjured out of nothing AFAIK.
It very much is being conjured. You can have some paradigm that has some power component or something. But that is not closes to being universal. Barring paradox a mage can as many spells they want everyday forever.
 
How many dice is Molly currently rolling in melee attacks? Dex 10 + Melee 5 and exilancy. With -2 DC.

That Dragon most have had serious soak to have lasted this long.
 
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*checks*
No you are misremembering.
Thats true for the permanent clones that we create for 5 motes. Not for the ones created automatically during Shintai as scene-long manifestations that vanish after the scene.

It was 2022 when we last had this discussion, so its entirely reasonable for memories to have faded a wee bit.

The rules are:
Signature Effect: When the Infernal dons her
Shintai form, (Essence rating) clones emerge along-
side her when her chrysalis shatters. They don't count
against the normal clone limit of Splintered Gale In-
carnation, and will vanish into crimson wind when the
Shintai form ends; they cannot be reabsorbed. To be
clear, these are clones of the Infernal's normal form,
not her Shintai body.
Nothing is said about them being different than normal. By strictest RaW, they are mortal human naked clones with no equipment and no magic at all.
 
Yeah, I think our perfect attack should move towards the top of the buy list after all this. Being able to make these idiots explode would be very convenient.
I don't. When we spend XP on increasing our combat power our enemies are buffed to match. Better to spend XP on interesting abilities.

This Dragon with a sphere of Chaos on him would have killed Broken Seeker and every other vampire in that plane.

Yes if we had Death of Obsidian butterflies we could have destroyed this entire group first round, but if we had Death of Obsidian butterflies this would not be the group we are facing.
 
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I don't. When we spend XP on increasing our combat power our enemies are just buffed to match. Better to spend XP on interesting abilities.

This Dragon with a sphere of Chaos on him would have killed Broken Seeker and every other vampire in that plane.

Yes if we had Death of Obsidian butterflies we could have destroyed this entire group first round, but if we had Death of Obsidian butterflies this would not be the group we are facing.
What we face grows with what we're trying to do, it's not fundamentally pointless. It's certainly not the case that if we freeze the setting will politely wait for us either.
 
You gotta admit, since Sandra has now definitely only the normal 7 Health Levels, we could have killed her with a look much earlier...
 
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