Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] Plan Don't wait for nightfall and waste another 6 or so fucking hours
[X] Let Harrowmont go aheal with his ritual just as you make your way into the tunnels, hopefully stretch Sandra's attention to the breaking point
-[X] Do so right now, the Reds on our side go in as soon as there's a cloud-cover, Molly and the cyborgs take point for now
-[X] Leave several of your party members behind
--[X] Harry, a proper wizard used to this kind of magic
--[X] Tiffany for her understanding of old powers
--[X] Mutt and Adkins, for further guarding and occult insights respectivly

It's probably too late to change the winning vote by now, but I think it's incredibly stupid to gift Sandra another few hours to do her thing and if I had thought that was the default option I would have never voted for it.

@DragonParadox
Honestly, it's like Molly doesn't think that every minute matters right now, nevermind every hour. The trip to our world and to Harrowmont already took longer than it should have.
Even if we abstractly have time till the Outsiders come, there are already now people dying every moment this string of bad luck and terrorist attacks keeps happening.

[X] Plan Don't wait for nightfall and waste another 6 or so fucking hours
[X] Let Harrowmont go aheal with his ritual just as you make your way into the tunnels, hopefully stretch Sandra's attention to the breaking point
-[X] Do so right now, the Reds on our side go in as soon as there's a cloud-cover, Molly and the cyborgs take point for now
-[X] Leave several of your party members behind
--[X] Harry, a proper wizard used to this kind of magic
--[X] Tiffany for her understanding of old powers
--[X] Mutt and Adkins, for further guarding and occult insights respectivly

What if horromont is a plant. We should ascertain his loyalty and free will i think.
[X] Plan Don't wait for nightfall and waste another 6 or so fucking hours

This is also fine with me.

[X] Plan Don't wait for nightfall and waste another 6 or so fucking hours

[X] Artemis1992

[X] Plan Don't wait for nightfall and waste another 6 or so fucking hours

@TonedMite @HellFire666 @Hexxart @Nyarky @fictionfan
Forgive me if I was reading you fine individuals wrong but it seems like you guys might be interested in this new plan.

[X] Plan Don't wait for nightfall and waste another 6 or so fucking hours
[X] Let Harrowmont go aheal with his ritual just as you make your way into the tunnels, hopefully stretch Sandra's attention to the breaking point
-[X] Do so right now, the Reds on our side go in as soon as there's a cloud-cover, Molly and the cyborgs take point for now
-[X] Leave several of your party members behind
--[X] Harry, a proper wizard used to this kind of magic
--[X] Tiffany for her understanding of old powers
--[X] Mutt and Adkins, for further guarding and occult insights respectivly

I agree with Artemis here, every minutes counts, waiting several hours makes no sense.

@DragonParadox, I think this could have benefited from being communicated more clearly sooner. There never was any big indication we are going to wait for the Rampires in the updates before you told us in thread.

Degorium said:

Forgive me if I was reading you fine individuals wrong but it seems like you guys might be interested in this new plan.

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I was actually reading the thread after waking up and was writing this post when you posted:
[X] Plan Don't wait for nightfall and waste another 6 or so fucking hours
[X] Let Harrowmont go aheal with his ritual just as you make your way into the tunnels, hopefully stretch Sandra's attention to the breaking point
-[X] Do so right now, the Reds on our side go in as soon as there's a cloud-cover, Molly and the cyborgs take point for now
-[X] Leave several of your party members behind
--[X] Harry, a proper wizard used to this kind of magic
--[X] Tiffany for her understanding of old powers
--[X] Mutt and Adkins, for further guarding and occult insights respectivly

To be honest, I read the "-[] Try to rally those vampires in outward-facing positions who you still know to be loyalists" vote in that we try to shout "I'm on your side" at the loyalists within the outer parts of the tunnels, as we charge in.

Not that we try to gather Reds from all over the city during the day.

New plan closing that gap.

[X] Plan Don't wait for nightfall and waste another 6 or so fucking hours

Artemis1992 said:

To be honest, I read the "-[] Try to rally those vampires in outward-facing positions who you still know to be loyalists" vote in that we try to shout "I'm on your side" at the loyalists within the outer parts of the tunnels, as we charge in.

Not that we try to gather Reds from all over the city during the day.

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Same, really

Artemis1992 said:

@DragonParadox
Honestly, it's like Molly doesn't think that every minute matters right now, nevermind every hour. The trip to our world and to Harrowmont already took longer than it should have.
Even if we abstractly have time till the Outsiders come, there are already now people dying every moment this string of bad luck and terrorist attacks keeps happening.

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People are dying because of the curse yes, but there is the fact that if you do not stop this tens of millions will die. So if you think acting at sunset will meaningfully improve the odds of the gate not bursting open that will be worth the harm and the deaths from now until then. Is it cold, yes, you literally have ice water running though your veins and this pings none of your intimacies.

Artemis1992 said:

I mean yeah, if we have nothing else to do I'd say Molly should help Harrowmont with the ritual until it's time for her to go.

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Thing is, as far as Im aware, magical spells dont really tolerate walk-ins and walkoffs.
You dont get to half-ass it; either you're in or you're out.
Abandoning a spell half way simply shatters it.

Artemis1992 said:

The important part to me is firstly to activate the ritual at the same time as we are physically entering the tunnels and secondly to have Harry and Lash as support for the casting on it and not in the tunnels where they are less helpful and in greater danger.

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1) Harrowmont is an exceptionally weak mage.
Even with the help of the goblins, there's little chance he alone can beat what looks like a ritual-cast spell led by Sandra, who is NOT a weak mage if she can cast veils, and whose patrons are Outsiders.

We dont even know if she has magical assistants.
Given that she apparently infiltrated Outsider pawns from South America into the Red Court, there is a non-zero chance that there are mortal or Rampire sorcerers among them acting as her backup.

If we want to budge it, we need Molly throwing a fuckton of Occult successes into this if we want a good chance at breaking it.


2)You're literally trying to split the party in the face of a citywide bad luck spell that will debuff everything.
Remember when the Will of Kakuri tried to do something like that to us, and we had to get Dresden to break it early?
Thats the type of debuff we are looking at while this shit is still up.

Splitting your forces in the face of that kind of deal is actively choosing all the wrong decisions.

=====
I will repeat: Dont split the party.
We can ultimately live with whatever decision is made, though I obviously think the rainstorm and a prepared assault is a much better choice.

But whatever our decisions are, we take our whole team with us, barring Mutt and Adkins.
They contribute abilities and skills that Molly herself lacks.
If we didnt think they could handle this environment, we wouldnt have brought them from Chicago.

BronzeTongue said:

I'm uncomfortable with waiting on this if we don't have to. If we're making a storm why not use that as cover to launch the attack early? Or use that factory fog recipe to produce cover if nothing else.

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Because if the spell isnt down, you guarantee that the bad luck portion of the bad luck spell will kick in.
See shit like the car that spontaneosly exploded, killing two police officers.

BronzeTongue said:

Showing up at the last minute is incredibly careless; our fight with Sandra should be over well before whatever she's waiting for comes to pass so that setting it off is more difficult or outright impossible*.

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Its not last minute. We have a timeline we've been working with that was Crown confirmed.
Precipitate action is haste, not speed.

Artemis1992 said:

[X] Plan Don't wait for nightfall and waste another 6 or so fucking hours
[X] Let Harrowmont go aheal with his ritual just as you make your way into the tunnels, hopefully stretch Sandra's attention to the breaking point
-[X] Do so right now, the Reds on our side go in as soon as there's a cloud-cover, Molly and the cyborgs take point for now
-[X] Leave several of your party members behind
--[X] Harry, a proper wizard used to this kind of magic
--[X] Tiffany for her understanding of old powers
--[X] Mutt and Adkins, for further guarding and occult insights respectivly

It's probably too late to change the winning vote by now, but I think it's incredibly stupid to gift Sandra another few hours to do her thing and if I had thought that was the default option I would have never voted for it.

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This plan appears to literally pick all the worst options available to us.


You are leaving roughly 40% of our recruited forces behind, inviting defeat in detail AND delay if we get bogged down in the tunnels. You are having the Reds attempt to move in daylight with a strategic bad luck spell active, which means they step out into cloud and they almost certainly get hammered by fortuitous sunlight. Or their car gets hit by another car and explodes.

You are sending Molly in with less than half her available Essence pool, meaning she has no juice for more than one fight.

You are leaving the best magic sensor on our side behind, increasing the chances we stumble into traps and flounder.
The magic sensor is also our only healer of poisons, so nerve gas, for example, has a good chance to fuck us if she isnt there, nevermind supernatural exotics.

And no, Exalts are not immune to poison by default, and neither Molly nor Lydia has a poison negator atm.

You are leaving the only wizard on our side behind, who is also our only magic tracker, so if there's a magic ritual that needs to be defused, or an escapee who we have to follow, we have no options because neither Molly nor Lydia has Counterspell as a skill or high Survival/Streetwise.


The more I examine it, the worse this plan looks.

uju32 said:

But whatever our decisions are, we take our whole team with us, barring Mutt and Adkins.
They contribute abilities and skills that Molly herself lacks.
If we didnt think they could handle this environment, we wouldnt have brought them from Chicago.

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They aren't children. They can infact take care of themselves. Despite my joke its harry dresden and lasciel and lydia is an exalted.

If we always have to baby sit them then we might as well not bring them. Which i can't agree is the case.

If they die they die.

uju32 said:

Because if the spell isnt down, you guarantee that the bad luck portion of the bad luck spell will kick in.
See shit like the car that spontaneosly exploded, killing two police officers.


Its not last minute. We have a timeline we've been working with that was Crown confirmed.
Precipitate action is haste, not speed.


This plan appears to literally pick all the worst options available to us.


You are leaving roughly 40% of our recruited forces behind, inviting defeat in detail AND delay if we get bogged down in the tunnels. You are having the Reds attempt to move in daylight with a strategic bad luck spell active, which means they step out into cloud and they almost certainly get hammered by fortuitous sunlight. Or their car gets hit by another car and explodes.

You are sending Molly in with less than half her available Essence pool, meaning she has no juice for more than one fight.

You are leaving the best magic sensor on our side behind, increasing the chances we stumble into traps and flounder.
The magic sensor is also our only healer of poisons, so nerve gas, for example, has a good chance to fuck us if she isnt there, nevermind supernatural exotics.

And no, Exalts are not immune to poison by default, and neither Molly nor Lydia has a poison negator atm.

You are leaving the only wizard on our side behind, who is also our only magic tracker, so if there's a magic ritual that needs to be defused, or an escapee who we have to follow, we have no options because neither Molly nor Lydia has Counterspell as a skill or high Survival/Streetwise.


The more I examine it, the worse this plan looks.

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There is something to be said about speed and haste and the difference thereof why do you want to cut it so close to the actual ritual. She has a timeline that is going to be finished at that point why would you let your enemy dictate the timeline of the confrontation ever what is the idea behind that.

Also when we're in the tunnels we can just flare our anima outright to be able to spot literally everything. There is no magical phenomenon or physical phenomenon I'm not going to escape our site once it's up.

Finally Dresden is most useful making sure the ritual works. Fire near the corpse puppet Reds is a bad combo it doesn't matter if there are enemies burning your allies alive because you're wizard isn't super careful with all the fire not great also fire and enclosed spaces not great just because we can become immune for one Essence doesn't mean it's a good idea. Seriously dresden's main means of attack and defense are really not good for enclosed spaces pulses of like concrete cracking force and fire in enclosed spaces is a no-go.

Also what you said about the essence is just plain false we've never had a combat that required more than two Excellency uses even at the most expensive this combat can be we would still have enough to continue to fight multiple fights because our Excellency last four turns.

Lydia's is the same way by the way in combat We Roll 18 and she rolls 16 in combat stats the idea that Harry or Tiffany both of which can just be killed with regular bullets because none of their combat abilities allow them to natively block or Parry bullets. They have to use magic to defend against and with our current essence we could fight for a solid 12 rounds and still have leftovers unless we were just absolutely pissing away our Essence during a fight we can definitely do more than one.

Now if you're going to try and claim that Sandra is going to be tougher than a literal abomination of the last creation and God of War I'm going to have to say no.

Artemis1992 said:

To be honest, I read the "-[] Try to rally those vampires in outward-facing positions who you still know to be loyalists" vote in that we try to shout "I'm on your side" at the loyalists within the outer parts of the tunnels, as we charge in.

Not that we try to gather Reds from all over the city during the day.

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Perhaps charging into defended tunnels blind struck Molly as a bad idea?
Molly, unless explicitly specified, will occasionally do things IC that make better sense in the story.
And its always worked out.

I for one am grateful to not have to try to assault defended, fortified tunnels with 30-50 Rampires and an unknown number of hostile summoned Outsider combatants while only having 8/15m of Essence to spend.
That would be unpleasant.

DragonParadox said:

People are dying because of the curse yes, but there is the fact that if you do not stop this tens of millions will die. So if you think acting at sunset will meaningfully improve the odds of the gate not bursting open that will be worth the harm and the deaths from now until then. Is it cold, yes, you literally have ice water running though your veins and this pings none of your intimacies.

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Also worth noting that Harry has been in this precise situation multiple times.
From Summer Knight to Death Masks to Dead Beat, each situations where the potential death toll was anywhere from the tens of thousands to the billions

Knowing when not to rush, to take your time and gather forces, has been key in everyone getting through those situations.

Acolyte said:

They aren't children. They can infact take care of themselves. Despite my joke its harry dresden and lasciel and lydia is an exalted. If we always have to baby sit them then we might as well not bring them. Which i can't agree is the case.
If they die they die.

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They arent children, so why are you treating them like it?
Harry and Lash have survived their own share of being in the middle of magical mayhem, with less backup than a short platoon of Sanctuary cyborgs will provide.

We explicitly knew we were coming to Vegas to hunt an Outsider cultist, and that we'd likely be running into heavy hitters. We brought them along anyway for their unique skills, and they agreed to come.
If they were not useful here, we would have left them at home.


This entire suggestion of leaving them behind because they are too fragile, and then telling them to attempt a magic ritual whose signs will be seen from all over the city reminds me very much of what happened in Dead Beat when Harry tried to summon and contain the Erlking at Murphy's undefended house, and Cowl literally walked in the back door and bashed him on the head mid-ritual.

Las Vegas is not a secure city to leave people we know are on the kill list of a bunch of mind-controlled thralls.

You really arent paying Sandra sufficient respect as a threat in proposing that we split the party to try this
And you should.
You really should.

Acolyte said:

What if horromont is a plant. We should ascertain his loyalty and free will i think.
[X] Plan Don't wait for nightfall and waste another 6 or so fucking hours

This is also fine with me.

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1)If he was a plant, he wouldnt have told us shit about Sandra or her clique.
His information was critical to putting us in our current position to neutralize Sandra's schemes.

2)Molly talked to him over the phone with an Excellency boosting her native skills, and is literally talking to him right now. Perception 3 + Empathy 5, with Empathy as a Key Ability.
She can read him like a book.

[x]uju32

So essentially the world is going to end and we need to stop the ritual asap but we are busy.....helping granny cross the street.

That's how the whole Vagus trip feels like tbh.

Yzarc said:

So essentially the world is going to end and we need to stop the ritual asap but we are busy.....helping granny cross the street.

That's how the whole Vagus trip feels like tbh.

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Hmm... In what sense?

Yzarc said:

So essentially the world is going to end and we need to stop the ritual asap but we are busy.....helping granny cross the street.

That's how the whole Vagus trip feels like tbh.

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During Summer Knight, Dresden still took the time to destress with the Alphas before taking them to war.
During Dead Beat, when he could literally feel the Darkhallow forming, Dresden took the time to summon and bind Sue the zombie T-rex instead of just YOLOing himself into the area where he could feel the ritual being worked.

I know its a cliche at this point, and I might be overusing the phrase, but its worth remembering: Haste is not speed.
A planned, deliberate assault that starts later can and will often make more progress faster, than a hurried effort with insufficient resources in magic and people.

DragonParadox said:

Hmm... In what sense?

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I suppose it is largely because we probably should have made Vegas it's own thing.

This turn seems to just go on forever.

Yzarc said:

I suppose it is largely because we probably should have made Vegas it's own thing.

This turn seems to just go on forever.

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Yeah, that is on me. I should have closed this off before Vegas.

Live and learn, I will not be repeating this.

uju32 said:

1)If he was a plant, he wouldnt have told us shit about Sandra or her clique.
His information was critical to putting us in our current position to neutralize Sandra's schemes.

2)Molly talked to him over the phone with an Excellency boosting her native skills, and is literally talking to him right now. Perception 3 + Empathy 5, with Empathy as a Key Ability.
She can read him like a book

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Sleeper agent wont know it themselves until the mind command triggers in the middle of a ritual.