Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Yeah, that has never been a valid argument for anything.

I won't change goals, personal or political, because a hostile actor shares one or more of them.

Or as TV tropes put it, *Hitler ate sugar that doesn't mean eating sugar is evil*.

Method and reasoning matter too.

Thats just not true.
When your proposals happen to coincide with the goals of not one but several setting antagonists, there is something very wrong with your premises.

False, why they want it is more important than the fact they do, and how they intend to do it is too.
 
Yeah, it is not just a case of treaties, indeed the local bloodsucker is not even part of the Accords. Vegas is a lot more magical than the norm with a lot of odd sights skating by on the excitement and the general inebriation of its guests. It is just part of the show right? ( ;) ) Either way Winter does not want the hassle according to Maeve and they really do not want the upkeep.
Come to think of it ... why would significant upkeep even be necessary?
The part Winter cares about is keeping the SinEater fed and squatting on the Outsider intrusion.
And since Vegas is already a self-sustaining engine of keeping it fed due to aligned incentives ... why would the Dragon's death imperil that?
one whose master staves off Winter itself,
For that matter, this bit was interesting. Was it referencing others believing Winter refused to confront the SinEater when Winter actually has no desire to remove a convenient way to close off a gap to the Outside ... of did Winter confront the SinEater despite that and actually get staved off?
 
Come to think of it ... why would significant upkeep even be necessary?
The part Winter cares about is keeping the SinEater fed and squatting on the Outsider intrusion.
And since Vegas is already a self-sustaining engine of keeping it fed due to aligned incentives ... why would the Dragon's death imperil that?

For that matter, this bit was interesting. Was it referencing others believing Winter refused to confront the SinEater when Winter actually has no desire to remove a convenient way to close off a gap to the Outside ... of did Winter confront the SinEater despite that and actually get staved off?

Because the Sin Eater is not the kind of being that would bow to the Winter Court, if they invaded they would have to replace the thing rather than simply vassalizing it.
 
Untrue. The first law forbids killing humans, it doesn't forbid harming them to any degree short of death.

A wizard could cut off a victim's tongue, limbs, destroy all their sensory organs including their sense of touch and mess with their internal organs so they'd be in incredible pain for the rest of their life and that'd be just fine according to the first law as long as they made sure the screaming head and torso lived to suffer the consequences.

A wizard can inflict horrific harm on a person that's significantly worse than death in a setting where the afterlife exists and the Laws of Magic would be silent.
Misleading.

Magic is seldom a precision instrument. At least not at Harry's age.
If the person dies in the process of any of that, the fact that you did not mean it to happen is no protection in the eyes of the Laws. And certainly not in the eyes of the Wardens either.

Not a practical threat from a wizard who is at all interested in avoiding the lethal attentions of the White Council.


Of Matters Sacred and Profane​
12th of January 2007 A.D.
COMMENTARY
Arlene Ghorbani, ex-Iranian sex trafficking victim.
Presently independently wealthy, sources unknown. Nowhere as knowledgeable as she would like, obviously; she has Power, but her goddess isnt literally whispering in her ear.

Master Blampire, it looks like.
But not confirmed. I would not put it beyond a naagloshii, or a high wyldfae, to do something ironic like this.

If it IS a Blampire, cool; killing Blampires is generally a public service, because noone wants a Blampire seethe getting rooted in a major metro area. Not to mention that it may count as a reagent. But the timing of this still seems odd because Blampires successful at surviving generally dont randomly aggro multiple factions.

We probably want to see what notes that Mayeda left behind.

We can burn this scene as a focus for whatever information that Arlene is dangling.
We can also burn the Ambrosio murder scene as a focus.
As well as his corpse, if its still in the morgue.
 
[X] Investigate the killings first, that should give you plenty of good will to fall back on
 
I'm glad we had Lydia take the lead on that encounter. It felt like she was really in her element, or at least she was really good at faking it.
 
[X] Investigate the killings first, that should give you plenty of good will to fall back on
 
Thats not what I said
I believe there are complications there that we would be better off not having to address yet.
Not the same thing.
That's the effect though. We should play politics to soften things, but when push comes to shove Lara wants a fight less than we do and there are levels of deterrence between nothing and burning the court down.

Give her a choice between some bribe and a conflict with Molly I think she'll pick the bribe.

It really isnt.

Marcone's mortal; Dresden cant exactly walk into his office and blast him to death with magic, and Harry frankly did not have the legal or bureaucratic skill to put a dent in Marcone's empire. Lara he could kill, but the White Court as an entity was far beyond his capabilities to destroy.

Especially in the early days, Harry had issues with underestimating limits and consequences until they were rubbed in his face.
He runs into it in The Law, when there's a mortal criminal that simply disbelieves his magic and dares him to do his worst
And he's stumped.
Harry tells Marcone to his face that he's on the list in the scene where he's introduced as a character. it doesn't have to be a practical idea to inform their relationship.
I will remind you that Harry literally walked into then-Bianca's Red Court seethe to question her about the initial murders in Storm Front, and it was considered unremarkable, with most people willing to talk freely about other people's business.
People often talk.
Harry does all sorts of weird shit, and usually ends up pointed at someone else's problems.

Even a refusal to talk speaks volumes.

We can't read the results of what she doesn't yet know but may be able to find out off her face.
An ascension ritual empowers a single person, a mantle potentially empowers any number of people who can take on that mantle.
He made Arawn's new one, and the ritual he went on to create explicitly did make a new mantle, it just perfectly aligned with the nature of the person who made it at the time they did so.


Even if Arawn had killed him AND managed to make it stick, we were well past the point where pebbles get to vote.
The party was getting started with or without him.
Maybe, maybe not, he certainly made it worse.

It was his responsibility to kill him and he didn't. I wouldn't say it's all his fault, but he bears some responsibility for what he knowingly did.

*checks rules*
Not particularly, no, not by the rules as given, at least not using Holdencraft rules.

Making a Prodigy
Creating a Prodigy proceeds in four steps: Having the capability, crafting the vessel, weaving the
enchantments, and awakening the Prodigy.
Having the Capability: This part's simple. The Exalt must possess an appropriate Charm, such
as Wonder-Forging Genius, in order to be able to make a Prodigy at all. Solars, Abyssals,
Infernals, Sidereals, and Getimians possess such Charms.
Crafting the Vessel: The Exalt must, either working alone, together with a group of other Exalts
with Prodigy-creating Charms, or assisted with minor un-Exalted support, physically construct
the Prodigy. This takes however long creating a mundane, un-enchanted version of the object
would, assuming the work is performed at a masterwork level. This process can be sped up with
Charms like Craftsman Needs No Tools, as normal. At the end of the construction process, the
primary architect makes an (Appropriate Attribute) + Craft roll against a difficulty two points
higher than would be usual for the project. Success means the vessel has been correctly
constructed and, if nothing else, the Exalt has an excellent example of a working mirror, bicycle,
spear, or whatever else it is she's made.
Weaving the Enchantments: At every step of the construction process, the Exalt weaves
whispered blessings and minor spells into the Prodigy. Its inner surfaces are carved with hair-
fine sigils of power. Its steel is tempered with songs of glory. At the end of the physical
construction process, the character rolls (Charisma or Intelligence) + Occult against difficulty (4
+ Prodigy rating). Success means the Prodigy has been properly prepared and is ready to receive
an infusion of power to uplift it from mundane object to divine panoply.
Awakening the Prodigy: The final step is to infuse the Prodigy with the power necessary to
catalyze its latent enchantments. This is generally the most demanding element of Prodigy-
making; luckily, a correctly-crafted and -enchanted Prodigy can sit idle in an Exalt's workshop
while she makes her preparations for the next step for an effectively unlimited period of time. So
long as the vessel suffers no structural damage, it remains ready.
To awaken a Prodigy, the Exalt must enact a ritual lasting (Prodigy's rating) hours, during which
she infuses it with her divine Essence. (Prodigy's Rating x 5) Essence must be spent to properly
catalyze vessel and enchantments.
While one-dot Prodigies can be awakened anywhere, Prodigies rated two dots and above must be
awakened within a Dragon Nest.
For a one dot it's an hour plus crafting time if we don't fail.
Furthermore, both Morgan and Luccio apparently use what appear to be semiautos without issue.
They are both much older combat wizards; pre-Dead Beat Luccio was allegedly a potential Senior Council candidate before she got dumped in a younger body.

It's a Harry being weird thing:

The 'Harry screws up guns' thing hasn't been seen for several novels now, and I sincerely hope it's something JB has decided to let go to dust. First away, if Harry's disruption thing is so bad that it can mess up simple chemistry and even simpler mechanical operations, then howinblazes does his car ever work? Orders of magnitude more complex, mechanically, chemically, and electrically speaking…


On the other hand, using a GUN in earnest tends to be a tad more emotionally (and therefore magically) engaging than your average drive in a car. Proximity has a lot to do with it, too. Harry's actually TOUCHING the gun, generally in his right hand (the hand that projects magical energy) to boot. In fact, the gun is small enough that it's actually going to be encompassed by his bioelectric field (a very mild, but totally individual field of electromagnetic energy that the human body produces).

The car is a much larger (relative) object that is (relatively) farther away, even when Harry is driving under stress–and even so, the Beetle (and other cars) have broken down on-stage more often than guns have actually jammed on-stage.

And there are other factors involved of which Harry is not entirely aware. Alas, that the viewpoint character is non-omniscient. :)

The rules aren't changing. The proper circumstances just haven't all aligned the way they have in the other instances of guns glitching
Cite

He messes up guns worse than he should even for his power level.

A fire-Agg gun would have made all those times he needed to shoot reds and hope it stuck or use his limited supply of magic.
 
[X] Investigate the killings first, that should give you plenty of good will to fall back on

A wizard could cut off a victim's tongue, limbs, destroy all their sensory organs including their sense of touch and mess with their internal organs so they'd be in incredible pain for the rest of their life and that'd be just fine according to the first law as long as they made sure the screaming head and torso lived to suffer the consequences.

A lot of this sounds like it would violate the Second Law, "Thou Shalt Not Transform Others", instead. There's no easy mortal healing magic to be able to "make sure" either.

Severe wounds and even crippling would technically be fine, but always carry the risk of accidentally reaching lethal levels of damage, or your target simply dying of sudden shock or heart attack.

It's should simply not be worth the risk for any Wizard. Especially when there is no Law against stabbing or shooting the offender or, even better, paying someone else to do it.
 
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[X] Investigate the killings first, that should give you plenty of good will to fall back on



A lot of this sounds like it would violate the Second Law, "Thou Shalt Not Transform Others", instead. There's no easy mortal healing magic to be able to "make sure" either.

Severe wounds and even crippling would technically be fine, but always carry the risk of accidentally reaching lethal levels of damage, or your target simply dying of sudden shock or heart attack.

It's should simply not be worth the risk for any Wizard. Especially when there is no Law against stabbing or shooting the offender or, even better, paying someone else to do it.

I'd say that degree of magical damage would require Life 3 to heal the victim as one is mutilating them and that is pretty rare in this setting. Listens to the Wind could do it as well as a few of his students, though they are not so inclined.
 
Marcone's mortal; Dresden cant exactly walk into his office and blast him to death with magic,
Doesn't matter he can walk in and blast him with a shotgun. Well using magic to overcome the other obstacles. The first law has never been a large impediment for any wizard with even a little imagination.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Dec 31, 2023 at 2:55 AM, finished with 23 posts and 8 votes.

  • [X] Investigate the killings first, that should give you plenty of good will to fall back on
    [X] Investigate the killings first, that should give you plenty of good will to fall back on
    -[X]So long as you say that you called us in for that purpose. We don't want our actual prey to spook -too much.
 
Arc 11 Post 45: Rat Race
Rat Race

12th of January 2007 A.D.

Knowing better than most the foulness that is the Black Court, knowing too that they have no allies to speak there is no reason to speak up as Lydia agrees to the terms. Still it seems strange that an elder among them, for elder it must be to have lived to see the dawning of the twenty first century, would attack not one but two factions. Perhaps it did not know it was striking at anything more than the interests of the White Court, after all both victims had been incubi...

"These papers you recovered, where are they now?" Harry asks, straight to business as he sets down his almost untouched glass.

Arlene proffers a professionally effusive smile, showing gratitude, but not too much for a job assumed, but not finished. She pulls out a Blackberry in contrast to her ancient garb, not that you are one to talk about that and fires off a message. A moment later a somewhat timid looking young woman in a half-mask shows up bearing a cardboard box. She seems far less at ease under the eyes of guests than any of the servers. Not staff, not here for long, you intuit as, at a closer look you notice the edge of a burn beneath her mask. Putting that together with Arlenes's feelings on the sex trade... this is someone recently rescued maybe.

You smile encouragingly at her as you join Harry and Lash in looking down into the box of effects. For those without anywhere to go back to it makes sense to find them a place in the temple.

Inside the box there is a pair of letters, a bullet, probably from a handgun and a diminutive skull.

"Brown rat," Lash proclaims as Harry adds "Round nosed bullet, .45mm, old school revolver or some kind, like Colt?"

You open the letter and read aloud:

It all started at Christmas, never really thought must of it growing up, my old man wasn't one for stockings and candy-canes, more the other kind of cane, but waking up next to a stiff is something else, especially one that had been strangled with a rope or something and me none the wiser. They could have started with a horse's head but nah, had to be a body for me to dispose of. You have any idea how hard it is to burn a body to ash Arlene darling? Nah you wouldn't would you, you have other uses for 'em?

As you pause the woman in question sighs. "it is a dark and bloody world out there Miss Carpenter and courage in the face of death is not alas the province of the good alone. Sometimes one must resort of more extreme methods to send a message to those who profit from the suffering of others. Kidnappers looking for payment will often cut off body parts to send to the victim's family. I save the cutting for when they are dead."

"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth," Lydia recites, without any particular invection. "Actually since they are dead one could even say that you do not take from them all you fairly could."

Harry looks like someone had slapped him across the face with a rotten fish, or you guess a severed hand, but Lash meets your gaze and nods slightly, she had noticed the little hitch and speed up in Arlene's tone just as you had. She's hiding something and using the shock confession as a veil.

Instead of challenging her on it you decide to read on, hoping to find more clues:

Three days later I have a fight with that bitch Silk about 'fishing in her pond', like the Xanadu would even be standing if it weren't for me and lo and behold someone damn near sets fire to the place. I ask some people around town, not going to name any names since I know you don't like me mentioning my friends, turns out it had been rats with matches, running all over the place. Has to be magic right? The guy I was talking to said normies used to pull that shit back in Merry Old England, but I'm 90% sure he was bullshitting me.

"They actually did do that and not just in England," Lydia interjects and Tiffany nods. "Cities used to be tinderboxes in the old days and its not that hard to make sure a rat with its tail on fire will run where you want it to."

But the letter continues in a shakier hand: I was right, Holy Ishtar I wish I wasn't. This rat comes into my room with a note between its teeth that says 'You've seen I can hurt ya mate and you've seen how I can help yea, lets' talk. Venetian Canals at midnight, I'll even bring you a snack.' As soon as I finished the rat jumped up and ate it right out of my hand. Killed it, just like out of pure instinct you know. I was gonna ignore the crazy son of a bitch altogether, cursing at the dead rat and shit when a bullet came though my window, parted my hair right down the middle, didn't break my skin. Guess I'll go. Leaving this letter, the bullet and the rat in here for you to find in case I don't come back.

The only other thing on the paper is the rather unnecessarily loopy signature: Ken Mayeda.

"He didn't come back," Arlene says grimly. "The rat was already rotting when I got the box. Kenneth wasn't known for his common sense so I just kept the skull. We were about to launch into an investigation, cautiously, we have many rivals in town looking for weakness when the four of you showed up like the gift of the goddess."

"Even me?" Lash raises a perfect eyebrow in challenge.

"Tis not for me to judge who shall hold the serpent and the funeral torch for the wicked. In the weavings of the Great Gods all things have their place," the priestess replies.

What do you do next?

[] Use your Crown
-[] Write in on what and how

[] Challenge Arlene about not telling you everything

[] Travel to the Venetian Canals where one murder took place, perhaps a second also

[] Write in


OOC: Harry's feeling right at home, a murder to investigate, suddenly reminded of the ruthlessness of one of his allies, downright nostalgic.
 
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We were about to launch into an investigation, cautiously, we have many rivals in town looking for weakness when the four of you showed up like the gift of the goddess

Normally a high-level DnD party wandering into town isn't cause for celebration from any sane inhabitant, but she's clearly out of her league and not ready to throw down with a possible Elder Bhampire. Meanwhile Molly just rolled in with a party that could take on Ishtar herself; no wonder she's keen on redirecting the high-level PCs at her problems.

Her reticence is natural in that context; she's clearly not the top dog in the city while Molly and co. could potentially eliminate every supernatural being of note in the city by themselves. She's worried about the power balance while facing a group that could eliminate the balance of power via killing everybody with power in the entire region. I also wouldn't want to draw attention to my wrongdoings when faced with that many murderhobos PCs.
 
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