Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Perfect defenses have flaws
Again, the only flaw of CCI is double costs, when Molly encounters previously unknown enemy. It can be countered with burning a Crown question.

Edit: also, would you mind developing your thought about perfect defences? As far as I can see, when Molly has one, the only problem will be Essence costs, which can be managed by crafting talismans, etc. Also, there is word "reflexively", which means that Molly won't choose the attacks to counter with the perfect defence, she will counter every one. That's why temporary resistance from CCI is important.
 
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Again, the only flaw of CCI is double costs, when Molly encounters previously unknown enemy. It can be countered with burning a Crown question.

Edit: also, would you mind developing your thought about perfect defences? As far as I can see, when Molly has one, the only problem will be Essence costs, which can be managed by crafting talismans, etc. Also, there is word "reflexively", which means that Molly won't choose the attacks to counter with the perfect defence, she will counter every one. That's why temporary resistance from CCI is important.
The main flaw of all perfect defenses is, indeed, essence cost. In most fights we are fighting against more than one opponent, and in many situations each of our opponents is using more than one attack. That leaves us open to mote tapping, that is a tactic to rapidly drain our reserves with (relatively speaiing) mook level attacks, and then finish us off when we don't have the magic juice to keep going.

Murder is Meat and Jade Talismans mitigate, but don't fully solve the issue.

Essentially, the correct use of perfect defenses is stopping singular attacks - perfects or overwhelmingly powerful effects. If someone literally drops a nuke on Molly, that's the time to use perfect defenses. If someone unearthes Realm Defense Grid and uses it on Molly, it's time to bust out perfects. If Lasciel decides to eat the consequences and directly attacks Molly with full angelic galaxy busting power? That's what perfect defenses are for.

Against a mercenary group equipped with AK47s we are much better served by a good armor and a personal forcefield generator.
 
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Essentially, the correct use of perfect defenses is stopping singular attacks - perfects or overwhelmingly powerful effects. If someone literally drops a nuke on Molly, that's the time to use perfect defenses. If someone unearthes Realm Defense Grid and uses it on Molly, it's time to bust out perfects. If Lasciel decides to eat the consequences and directly attacks Molly with full angelic galaxy busting power? That's what perfect defenses are for.
You purposely overstate the significance of attacks for the perfect defences, of course. Let me remind you that in fight with Arianna, we activated Shintai form after her first attack and it wasn't a nuke, you know.

Also, you don't take into account the perfect attacks, which can be countered only by perfect defences: Eye of Balor seems to be one, and Denarians should have ones, I think.

Also, I don't think that Molly can turn off perfect defences: she can't turn off IPM, AFAIK.
 
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You purposely overstate the significance of attacks for the perfect defences, of course. Let me remind you that in fight with Arianna, we activated Shintai form after her first attack and it wasn't a nuke, you know.

Also, you don't take into account the perfect attacks, which can be countered only by perfect defences: Eye of Balor seems to be one, and Denarians should have ones, I think.

Also, I don't think that Molly can turn off perfect defences: she can't turn off IPM, AFAIK.
Yes, we overreacted in the fight against Arianna. Buying ox body is a way to mitigate that in the future.

Also, it's not just perfect attacks that perfect defenses are useful, against. Overwhelming force attacks, such as rocket launchers and nukes also count as valid uses.

Molly can choose not to use perfect defenses if she has them.
 
Yes, we overreacted in the fight against Arianna. Buying ox body is a way to mitigate that in the future.

I mean, it has been pointed out several time that this particular thing doesn't work for stopping us from popping Shintai as soon as we get hurt, no matter how little.

The voters don't care about how much we have been hurt, or how much more we can take when the time come to take this decision, everyone just go for *Shintai, now!* as soo as we get a scratch.

Ox body is completely worthless in this situation.
 
I mean, it has been pointed out several time that this particular thing doesn't work for stopping us from popping Shintai as soon as we get hurt, no matter how little.

The voters don't care about how much we have been hurt, or how much more we can take when the time come to take this decision, everyone just go for *Shintai, now!* as soo as we get a scratch.

Ox body is completely worthless in this situation.
That most likely true, but at least if we have much more hp, one could try to argue against the trend to panic. Especially in situations where we can expect to pop shintai multiple times in a story, ie before the costs reset
 
That most likely true, but at least if we have much more hp, one could try to argue against the trend to panic. Especially in situations where we can expect to pop shintai multiple times in a story, ie before the costs reset

This was already said last time, and the time prior, and the one before that, it didn't change anything, I don't think it will work

At this point a perfect is better than more health track because it gives a bigger sense of *if things go bad, this at least make sure we can not take the hit for sure* whereas the additional health tracks is just leading to *but what if they hit harder?*
 
Votes have been static for a while now. Might as well as call it.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Nov 19, 2023 at 6:40 AM, finished with 290 posts and 30 votes.

  • [X] Plan Appropriate Wherever I go
    -[X] Molly: 28 XP
    --[X] Anonymity Through Propriety: 8 XP
    --[X] Calling the Calibration Gate: 10 XP
    --[X] Source Code Compliance Protocol: 4 XP
    --[X] Alertness 1: 3xp
    --[X] Ox Body: 3 XP
    -[X] Lydia: 7 XP
    --[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
    --[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
    [X] Plan Speak Fervently and Have Reliable Defence
    -[X] Molly: 28 XP
    --[X] Alertness 1: 3xp
    --[X] Awareness 1: 3xp
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition: 16 XP
    --[X] Source Code Compliance Protocol: 4 XP
    --[X] Hear Prayers: 2 XP
    -[X] Lydia: 7 XP
    --[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
    --[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
    [X] Plan Speak Softly and Have Reliable Defence
    -[X] Molly: 28 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2: 5xp
    --[X] Awareness 1: 3xp
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition: 16 XP
    --[X] Source Code Compliance Protocol: 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia: 7 XP
    --[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
    --[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
    [X] Plan Stats and Followers
    --[X] Molly 28xp
    -[X] Alertness 2: 5xp
    -[X] Awareness 2: 5xp
    -[X] Ox-Body (•) (x2): 6xp
    -[X] Inner Devils Unchained (••••): 12xp
    --[X] Lydia 6xp
    -[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
    -[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
    [X]Plan gaining influence
    -[X]Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••) (20 XP)
    -[X] Ox-Body (•) (x2): 6xp
    -[X]Prayer Eating (•) (2 XP)
    --[X] Lydia: 7 XP
    -[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
    -[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
    [X] Plan Speak Fervently and Have a security blanket that synergies with our current defenses
    -[X] Molly: 28 XP
    --[X] Alertness 1: 3xp
    --[X] Awareness 1: 3xp
    --[X] The City Still Stands 15 xp
    --[X] Source Code Compliance Protocol: 4 XP
    --[X] Hear Prayers: 2 XP
    --[x]Save 1 xp
    -[X] Lydia: 7 XP
    --[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
    --[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
    [X] Plan Speak Softly and Be a Big Stick v.2
    -[X] Molly: 27 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2: 5xp
    --[X] Awareness 1: 3xp
    --[X] Ox Body X2: 6 XP
    --[X] Bloodless Murk Evasion: 9 XP
    --[X] Source Code Compliance Protocol: 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia: 7 XP
    --[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
    --[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
    [X] Plan What Happens in Vegas Stays In Vegas
    -[X] Molly:
    --[X] Alertness 2: 5xp
    --[X] Awareness 1: 3xp
    --[X] Black Mirror Incarnation: 20 XP
    -[X] Lydia:
    --[X]Mo Kung/Demon Fighter 1: Steelskin(Training Discount): 2xp
    --[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
    -[X]OTHER: Hand over Jade Talisman/Essence Battery to Lydia, with caveat that we might borrow it later to see if we can duplicate it
    [X]Plan Hell in Vegas
    -[X]Molly: 26XP + 2XP Reserve: 28XP
    --[X] Alertness 1: 3xp
    --[X] Awareness 1: 3xp
    --[X]Survival 1: 3xp
    --[X]Ox-Body 2: 3xp
    --[X]Hell-Walker Technique: 12xp
    --[X]XP spent: 24xp
    --[X]Unspent XP: 4xp
    -[X]Lydia: 7xp (26/4, rounded up)
    --[X]Mo Kung/Demon Fighter 1: Steelskin(Training Discount): 2xp
    --[X]Occult 2: 2xp
    --[X]Spies 1: 3xp
    --[X] XP spent: 7xp
    -[X]Total Unspent XP: 4xp
    -[X]OTHER: Hand over Jade Talisman/Essence Battery to Lydia, with caveat that we might borrow it later to see if we can duplicate it
    [X] Plan Seeing, but unseen
    --[X] Molly 28xp
    -[X] Alertness 2: 5xp
    -[X] Awareness 2: 5xp
    -[X] Ox-Body (•): 3xp
    -[X] Black Mirror Incarnation: 15 XP
    --[X] Lydia: 7 XP
    -[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
    -[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
    [X]Plan gaining influence covertly
    -[X]Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••) (20 XP)
    -[X]Anonymity Through Propriety(6 XP)
    -[X]Prayer Eating (•) (2 XP)
    --[X] Lydia: 7 XP
    -[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
    -[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
    [X]Plan gaining influence covertly
    -[X]Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••) (20 XP)
    -[X]Anonymity Through Propriety(8 XP)
    --[X] Lydia: 7 XP
    -[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
    -[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
    [X] Plan Appropriate Wherever I go hear prayer
    -[X] Molly: 28 XP
    --[X] Anonymity Through Propriety: 8 XP
    --[X] Calling the Calibration Gate: 10 XP
    --[X] Source Code Compliance Protocol: 4 XP
    --[X] Hear Prayers: 2 XP
    --[X] Ox Body: 3 XP
    --[X]1 xp left
    -[X] Lydia: 7 XP
    --[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
    --[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
    [X] Plan Speak Abracadabra and Have Reliable Defence
    -[X] Molly: 28 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition: 16 XP
    --[X] Calling the Calibration Gate: 10 XP
    --[X] Hear Prayers: 2 XP
    -[X] Lydia: 7 XP
    --[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
    --[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
 
Arc 10 Interlude 5: Miracle for a New Age
Miracle for a New Age

30th of December 2006 A.D.

Tiffany MacNeil, in memory Lasciel Angel of the True Host, in form Incarnate of Flesh and Longing, in aspiration not quite sure, had a problem... well she had a lot of problems: a hateful mother, an indifferent Maker and a wizard companion whom she occasionally still had the urge to grab by the collar and shake until he finally saw what was in front of his nose. But—she shook up the French braid to make sure it would hold together— to even begin to solve any of them she needed power. So, floral dress check, enough cheap 'crystal' charms to set up a a street booth in New Delhi, double check, 'all natural fiber sustainable shoes' that were probably made in a sweatshop—deep sigh— also check.

In the first heady days after her incarnation Tiffany had thought of targeting a church, the sort that handled pans and snakes with equal fervor, promised miracles even as they divested the desperate of their savings. show them what real miracles looked like, but as entertaining as that might have been to flex against, good sense prevailed. To strike at the truly hollow, the utterly heartless she'd have to go for the big boys and if some televangelist with five Rolex watches, four luxury cars, three mansions, two mistresses and a private jet got shown up in front of his congregation he would go on TV to bleat about it, it would get her noticed when she was already on notice. On the other hand if she went small time, someone just starting to walk the wide and winding two faced road of the false preacher it might get her noticed with unfriendly eyes Up Above. She shivered and not from the cold wind blowing in the dusty curtains. Harry should really get some more color in here, maybe red and black trim.

The demon-invested phone rang once on the table, then it started to play, automatically. "Hi, Tiffany, are you feeling OK today?" The voice at the other end was soft and fuzzy, like a half unraveled blanket for the soul.

"Yeah Chelsy, I have a good feeling about this. It think you are right about the stars leading the way," Tiffany answered, making herself sound younger and more vulnerable. It had not been hard at all to spin a sob story about how she was always 'different' growing up, able to feel people's pain emotionally and physically as well as fix it. Much like a bar of granola left in the back of the pantry for the last forty years New Age Spiritualism had never really gone away, maybe a bit crumbly around the edges, a little dry and stale on the tongue, but what it lacked in terms of fervor, most of the times at least, it made up for in syncretism.

In Chelsy's case that was the belief that some people had achieved 'kensho' and could therefore overcome 'maia', the illusion of the world, never mind that she was mixing and matching words from various distinct traditions to produce a system of belief ultimately more akin to the Cathari or other medieval gnostics than anything you would find in East or Southeast Asia. What mattered was that she was a chiropractor with a flourishing practice, a modest following online and at least one patient with stage four cancer.

***​

The apartment, unlike other places of its sort made no attempt to feel like a medical practice. It smelled pleasantly of lavender and mint, most open surfaces covered in green, broad leaves and carefully cultivated vines. The ninth floor Hanging Gardens of Chicago, Tiffany thought with more whimsy than scorn. There were worse places to spend one's time if it was about to be cut short. No sooner had the thought passed though her mind that she saw the boy, wan and wide-eyed the sweater hanging off him awkwardly, the sheer physicality of death struck her. He had a few months left in him. The woman sitting next to him who introduced herself as Mrs Ford, knew it as well as Tiffany did, she knew her son would not see another Christmas. Part of her was already mourning him, clear as daylight behind those dark brown eyes.

"Miss Chelsy said you could do something about the pain," the boy's voice was flat with disbelief, resignation. Children were a lot better at picking up cues around them than most of their elders gave them credit for.

The woman herself nodded encouragingly. Chelsy had a very encouraging sort of face, round and warm, the lines softening it further until she looked like what an animator might draw as the grandmother in Red Riding Hood. That probably had as much of a part in her success as skill in her chosen profession.

"I'll try, I've done it before, but it's been a while..." Not technically untrue depending on one's definition of 'I' and technically true was the talk of auras and resonances and healing energies so that when she laid her hands on the boy's shoulders and...

Recalled onto Flesh its True and hale self

No spell was cast, no words of power spoken, the universe answered the hand of one who had been among its stewards, a memory made real by faith, her own in purpose enduring.

Eyes snapped suddenly, an end to pain, by instinct known, an end to suffering. "W..what?" the child asked.

"I'm going to need you to send me good vibrations so I can help other people," the once-demon whispered. With the small nod that followed there was a sound-that-was-no sound for her alone to hear: a bell sublime, a cosmic wheel clicking, faith flowing like clear water, like the light of the sun after a long, hard winter.

"I feel better, it doesn't hurt Mom..." the boy started, but Tiffany reached out and without sound spoke:

"Careful, she didn't feel it, she's not going to believe just like that, you are going to have some blood tests done."

The child made a face, he didn't like needles, but even that couldn't stop the smile for long. Tiffany gave a bit more advice, mostly to do with diet and sleep schedules, things any doctor would have said, just to round off the 'consultation'. The doctors would just write this off as the cancer entering remission, practically unheard of in his situation, but not utterly beyond the pale. She had taken care not to make this look too much like a miracle to the inquisitive mortal eye, just another statistical anomaly. Anonymity would be his shield against any dark things who might come knocking, that and the fact that curses flow very poorly uphill.

Chelsy was effusive of her wisdom and 'enlightenment', mere admiration paling before the rush of faith, but useful just the same. A good start.

OOC: A look at how Tiffany is planning to get her Faith regen while flying under the radar.
 
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that and the fact that curses flow very poorly uphill.
Good for everyone.
That means most people won't bother targeting her through her thralls, which helps their survival, and if they do it's unlikely to work, which helps her survival.

Tiffany gave a bit more advice, mostly to do with diet and sleep schedules, things any doctor would have said, just to round off the 'consultation'.
Thinking about it, how much does Tiffany genuinely know about medicine and human bodies?
Would her work as a chiropractor be actually helpful without adding divine power?
I mean, obviously not in the sense of curing late-stage cancer with good vibes, that's not in the cards without magic, but in more normal cases.
 
Thinking about it, how much does Tiffany genuinely know about medicine and human bodies?
Would her work as a chiropractor be actually helpful without adding divine power?
I mean, obviously not in the sense of curing late-stage cancer with good vibes, that's not in the cards without magic, but in more normal cases.

She has Medicine 4, she would make quite a good doctor, though she does not know the names of things in English which you get past the common knowledge Harry would have.
 
She has Medicine 4, she would make quite a good doctor, though she does not know the names of things in English which you get past the common knowledge Harry would have.
offhand what things does she have past 5 dots or did being a fragment shoved in a body made by us limit how much she can do? Like I don't expect full lasciel stats or anything but I imagine she probably has some stuff past 5 dots if shes not totally crippled right?

Edit: She probably had manipulation and appearance past 5 normally though not sure we can even make past appearance bodies.
 
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She has Medicine 4, she would make quite a good doctor, though she does not know the names of things in English which you get past the common knowledge Harry would have.
But that's something she could easily catch up on, I'd think.
Lash was good with languages, and even if Tiffany lost some of that it's only a matter of some study to catch up with modern human western medicine, if she already knows and understands it in other words.
 
offhand what things does she have past 5 dots or did being a fragment shoved in a body made by us limit how much she can do? Like I don't expect full lasciel stats or anything but I imagine she probably has some stuff past 5 dots if shes not totally crippled right?

She does not have skills beyond 5, she can develop them, but when it comes to what she recalled of her true nature she focused more on being able to work miracles than being super-humanly skilled
 
Technically Demons can't have stats beyond 5 (except Faith), with some exceptions like the Apocalyptic Form often adding stats or Earthbound getting their Urges as bonus to their attributes, or using Lores to boost themselves.

So they are basically like Exalts, no permanent stats beyond 5, but some ways to cheat the rule.
 
I think Tiffany is underestimating word of mouth here. Once the mother of the cured child gets over her post-party hangover after celebrating her child's second birthday, she's going to be quick to recommend Tiffany to all her acquaintances from support group, hospitals, etc. By the end of the month Tiffany is going to have hundreds, if not thousands of petitioners with people most likely literally offering to kill and die for her so their children might live.
 
I think Tiffany is underestimating word of mouth here. Once the mother of the cured child gets over her post-party hangover after celebrating her child's second birthday, she's going to be quick to recommend Tiffany to all her acquaintances from support group, hospitals, etc. By the end of the month Tiffany is going to have hundreds, if not thousands of petitioners with people most likely literally offering to kill and die for her so their children might live.
Eh.
There are a lot of faith-healers, new-age crystal healers and holistic practitioners and whatever else out there.

Statistically some have tried to heal people who then got miraculously better, just by the numbers.

Unless Tiffany produces these results consistently and frequently, which she likely won't do, it won't draw that much attention.
America is huge and full of weird people and unlikely coincidences.
 
On the CCG/HWT stuff - we paid a lot to be a crafter, and it can probably help us here.

Replicating a charm is not really in the cards, but crossing the gauntlet is a fairly common ability. I don't see why we couldn't make a prodigy, perhaps using that Fomor wizard's shell for thematic reasons, and build something that can at least move Molly alone at a higher speed for a lower price.


That'd have its own limits, but we could use it when we want to save resources and CCG when we want to force our way into somewhere we're not supposed to be.
 
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