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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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[X] Plan Seeing, but unseen
--[X] Molly 28xp
-[X] Alertness 2: 5xp
-[X] Awareness 2: 5xp
-[X] Ox-Body (•): 3xp
-[X] Black Mirror Incarnation: 15 XP
--[X] Lydia 7xp
-[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
-[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP

[X] Plan Stats and Followers
 
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[X] Plan Speak Fervently and Have Reliable Defence
[X] Plan Speak Softly and Have Reliable Defence
[X] Plan Speak Fervently and Have a security blanket that synergies with our current defenses
[X] Plan Speak Softly and Be a Big Stick v.2
 
DragonParadox said:
Iris is a person, Iris is also a spirit, the vessel she is invested in is just that a vessel, not a body. This is a limitation to keep you from porting in whole cities by just putting spirits in them.
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uju32 said:
Citation?
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More importantly though you didn't include any sort of cite for your claim that Molly can freely take a train out of her Hell so even if I had nothing your claim would still be dismissed.

However this is hardly the only time this topic has been brought up so I don't know how someone as active as you has managed to maintain ignorance.
 
[X] Plan Appropriate Wherever I go
-[X] Molly: 28 XP
--[X] Anonymity Through Propriety: 8 XP
--[X] Calling the Calibration Gate: 10 XP
--[X] Source Code Compliance Protocol: 4 XP
--[X] Alertness 1: 3 XP
--[X] Ox Body: 3 XP
-[X] Lydia: 7 XP
--[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
--[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
 
uju32 said:
Arianna put a skinwalker on our ass , and an archangel thought it worth taking time out of his busy schedule to give us specific warning about the Denarians. We are in the cross sights of enough heavy sitters to pucker my arsehole.
Especially going to a city run by a spirit brawny enough to keep a door locked against Outsiders and make it stick.
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There isn't causal link between them and this.

Like this is the winding down of a failed mission, it isn't a tripple long con to open a rift to the outside.

Ascribing undue competence to the enemy is just as harmful as disregarding them.
 
uju32 said:
[X]Plan Hell in Vegas
-[X]Molly: 26XP + 2XP Reserve: 28XP
--[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
--[X]Awareness 1: 3xp
--[X]Survival 1: 3xp
--[X]Ox-Body 2: 3xp
--[X]Hell-Walker Technique: 12xp
--[X]XP spent: 24xp
--[X]Unspent XP: 4xp
-[X]Lydia: 7xp (26/4, rounded up)
--[X]Mo Kung/Demon Fighter 1: Steelskin(Training Discount): 2xp
--[X]Occult 2: 2xp
--[X]Spies 1: 3xp
--[X] XP spent: 7xp
-[X]Total Unspent XP: 4xp
-[X]OTHER: Hand over Jade Talisman/Essence Battery to Lydia, with caveat that we might borrow it later to see if we can duplicate it
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I have no idea why this plan is so popular. Do people want Hell-Walker Technique so badly even when the sorcery gate is cheaper and scales more? Or the dot in survival when Molly auto passes most survival checks because of TLoF? Or the Spys for Lydia when we could get VEE and just have someone wish for spies? Also unspent XP which means just less power in general.

There is just so much wrong with this plan why are so many people name voting uju32?
 
BoredMan said:
Holy fuck. How many differ plans are there right now?

It's kind of hard to choose because people seem to have differ interpretations of the same charms even, so you can't feel knowledgable by just reading the proposed charm's description to understand its relevance. You then have to read everyone's back and forth on how the charm "actually works" afterwords e_e.

Thinking of sitting this one out but the votes tend to be close enough that even a single one matters so I know I'd regret it.
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The reason there are a lot of plans is because people are simultaneously trying to balance short, mid and long-term goals at the same time and interpreting how to accomplish each of those goals differently. I feel you on the weight of the single vote, it's what's causing me to stop being a lurker and I feel even worse because I'm going to have to be afk for a long time which is going to cause me to miss more updates about potentially crucial setting information, game mechanics, or qm rulings. This is a tense situation, we all just have to do the best we can, trust our judgment, and try to be civil.

With that being said my current (and possibly final vote unless I can catch up late) goes to
[X] Plan Appropriate Wherever I go
For the combination of social offense and defense, ability to transport ourselves, understanding of language and communication, and better chance in a fight along with giving Lydia more to do. I wish everyone the best of luck in resolving this matter.
 
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[X] Cavalar
[X] Plan Appropriate Wherever I go
[X] Plan Seeing, but unseen

Not for nothing, but I don't see why we shouldn't actually go for the kill here.

Make an essence vessel first, and either Sandra is good enough to survive or we have her soul in a bottle to interrogate then hand over to Maeve to do Maeve things with.

For that stealth or combat are both fine, but I wouldn't really call this a social mission. Really we should avoid the leadership of the city as much as possible; just handle our business and leave.
 
[X] Plan Appropriate Wherever I go
-[X] Molly: 28 XP
--[X] Anonymity Through Propriety: 8 XP
--[X] Calling the Calibration Gate: 10 XP
--[X] Source Code Compliance Protocol: 4 XP
--[X] Alertness 1: 3xp
--[X] Ox Body: 3 XP
-[X] Lydia: 7 XP
--[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
--[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP

This doesn't stop Sandra or one of her allies from feeling us across the city, but it does stop her from leveraging much of the mundane contacts to track, pursue, or assault us and lets us chase her.
 
[X]Plan gaining influence
-[X]Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••) (20 XP)
-[X]Ox Body x2 (6 XP)
-[X]Prayer Eating (•) (2 XP)
--[X] Lydia: 7 XP
-[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
-[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
 
dragon said:
This doesn't stop Sandra or one of her allies from feeling us across the city
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I mean it could, but that would require us to spend essanse every scene which is hard to keep up unless we prepare a fact book to read though ahead of time.

@DragonParadox : Actually that sounds kinda neat. Could we have Bob tell Clippy a fact book then have a world building fact at the beginning of each scene like many novels do at the beginning of chapters? Except this would be in universe for in universe reasons.
 
fictionfan said:
I mean it could, but that would require us to spend essanse every scene which is hard to keep up unless we prepare a fact book to read though ahead of time.

@DragonParadox : Actually that sounds kinda neat. Could we have Bob tell Clippy a fact book then have a world building fact at the beginning of each scene like many novels do at the beginning of chapters? Except this would be in universe for in universe reasons.
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A book with secrets that would ping the Crown would not be easy to make as Molly does not know for sure what will count ahead of time, they are literally unknown unknowns. She could make one anyway, but it would not be reliable and you would be carrying around a book of secrets from Bob specifically in the meantime.

All in all cool idea, but not practical.
 
DragonParadox said:
A book with secrets that would ping the Crown would not be easy to make as Molly does not know for sure what will count ahead of time, they are literally unknown unknowns. She could make one anyway, but it would not be reliable and you would be carrying around a book of secrets from Bob specifically in the meantime.

All in all cool idea, but not practical.
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It's not as if Clippy would store the book in plain text.
 
Yog said:
How often do you believe we would need to use it? I don't foresee more than 1 use per scene at the very most, and we are rarely down to even 5 essence in a scene.
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Enough to matter.

The first time someone had to open a Way into the NeverNever was during our fight with the Will of Kakuri.
When Michael and Dresden got locked off in the NeverNever by a greater akuma, and we had to send Lydia to try and get them out in case they were getting mobbed.

The second time was when Seeker kidnapped our friends, and we had to have an Einherjar open a Way and do a speedrun through a hostile island with unknown hostiles. We almost got caught IIRC.
If we'd rolled badly we'd have gotten into a fight there as well.


Always plan for worst case.

fictionfan said:
I have no idea why this plan is so popular. Do people want Hell-Walker Technique so badly even when the sorcery gate is cheaper and scales more? Or the dot in survival when Molly auto passes most survival checks because of TLoF? Or the Spys for Lydia when we could get VEE and just have someone wish for spies? Also unspent XP which means just less power in general.

There is just so much wrong with this plan why are so many people name voting uju32?
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The Sorcery gate costs 4 motes to use. Hellwalker costs 1m.
We have 15m total.
Cost matters.


Molly does not autopass Survival checks. That is not what TLF does
TLF said:
Wheresoever there is neither hope nor respite, there the Infernal marks herself at home.
System: The Infernal needs never make a Survival roll to remain safe, comfortable, and fed in hostile, barren environments such as deserts, tundra, or areas of urban blight. The difficulty to feed and protect others in such environments is reduced by three (minimum of 3). By spending 1 Essence, she becomes completely immune to environmental damage for the rest of the scene.
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It keeps you fed and comfortable, it does not help you navigate, or get you out, or help you track people.


VEE is not free.
It is designed to make people into your minions, not your allies.
You dont use it on allies unless its absolutely necessary.

And VEE is a terrible purchase for these circumstances; you're asking us to spend 20XP on a Charm in order to avoid spending 3xp on a Background.
Which is insane.

Seriously, you could bother to check your facts before spewing untruths.
 
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uju32 said:
The Sorcery gate costs 4 motes to use. Hellwalker costs 1m.
We have 15m total.
Cost matters.


Molly does not autopass Survival checks. That is not what TLF does

It keeps you fed and comfortable, it does not help you navigate, or get you out, or help you track people.


VEE is not free.
It is designed to make people into your minions, not your allies.
You dont use it on allies unless its absolutely necessary.

And VEE is a terrible purchase for these circumstances; you're asking us to spend 20XP on a Charm in order to avoid spending 3xp on a Background.
Which is insane.

Seriously, you could bother to check your facts before spewing untruths.
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1. Irrelevant for most of our planner travel needs espiecaly if we want to bring friends. Unless you wanted to leave clippy and our earbud behind?

2. I said most. What hostile enviroment do you imagine us being trapped in that we can't escape with our many many options (speed, RVD, calibration gate). Or person we fail to track with our crown?

3.The cost of VEE is the cost we assign. In most cases I expect us to assign the cost as a safeword sending them to a hospital in our Kingdom in case they are in trouble. In fact that is the main benefit allowing us to bring our minions with us and having them be able to do the leg work safely.

Right back at you, but more so. Everything I said was true. You are the pot calling the silverware black.
 
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dragon said:
[X] Plan Appropriate Wherever I go
-[X] Molly: 28 XP
--[X] Anonymity Through Propriety: 8 XP
--[X] Calling the Calibration Gate: 10 XP
--[X] Source Code Compliance Protocol: 4 XP
--[X] Alertness 1: 3xp
--[X] Ox Body: 3 XP
-[X] Lydia: 7 XP
--[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
--[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP

This doesn't stop Sandra or one of her allies from feeling us across the city, but it does stop her from leveraging much of the mundane contacts to track, pursue, or assault us and lets us chase her.
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It doesn't stop them from sensing, but it does stop them from remarking on it:

anonymity through propriety (••)
The Infernal wraps herself in a mantle of Essence which devours the attention of the weak-willed, mak- ing it feel like an impossible burden to notice the Exalt
or interfere in her affairs.
System: Spend 1 Essence and roll Charisma + Et-
iquette against difficulty 4. Anyone whose Willpower rating is equal to or lower than the resulting successes cannot notice or acknowledge the Infernal unless she directly interacts or interferes with them. If she's tak- ing some indirect action that would distress a character were he to acknowledge it (such as reading his diary or murdering his spouse), and that character has Will- power 5+, they can spend a point of Willpower and make a Willpower roll against difficulty 7 to attempt to acknowledge and confront the Infernal. This Charm lasts for one scene.
Signature Effect: Anonymity Through Propriety acti- vates at no cost when the Infernal dons her Shintai form.
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Note that it measures against base willpower and you're only permitted to roll against it when we do something significant and personal to someone.

Being in the city isn't a personal affront, so unless they have perfect mental defenses up before we toggle the charm Sandra and co are in trouble.

A two bit nazi sorcerer almost got us with a similar but vastly weaker effect despite us having a reflexive perfect mental defense. We had to roll to remember to use it, despite having eyes directly on the guy as he fled from shooting us.
 
fictionfan said:
More importantly though you didn't include any sort of cite for your claim that Molly can freely take a train out of her Hell so even if I had nothing your claim would still be dismissed.

However this is hardly the only time this topic has been brought up so I don't know how someone as active as you has managed to maintain ignorance.
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.....
Perhaps you misunderstood me.
I requested a citation for your claim that, and I quote:
fictionfan said:
We have been limited by what people can carry.
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You have not provided a citation for your claim that there is a mass limit to what Molly can move.
Because Im looking at the book right here, and there is nothing to that effect.

There is a limit to how many PEOPLE we can move at a time.
There is nothing in the book I can tell that stops Molly driving an airliner, or a train, or a ship, as long as the crew and passengers on board are fewer than 20.

Acolyte said:
There isn't causal link between them and this.
Like this is the winding down of a failed mission, it isn't a tripple long con to open a rift to the outside.
Ascribing undue competence to the enemy is just as harmful as disregarding them.
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That is precisely what it looks like to me.

Its been six months since she exfiltrated from Chicago.
This is not the winding down of a failed mission; that happened back in June, and we didnt even know when it happened.
She didnt end up in Las Vegas by accident. And I rather doubt she's on vacation.
 
uju32 said:
Enough to matter.

The first time someone had to open a Way into the NeverNever was during our fight with the Will of Kakuri.
When Michael and Dresden got locked off in the NeverNever by a greater akuma, and we had to send Lydia to try and get them out in case they were getting mobbed.
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Even if we had Hell-Walker Technique, we still would have sent Lydia for them, not did it ourselves. Because we are the heavy hitter. CCG might have helped, if we had time to use it.
uju32 said:
The second time was when Seeker kidnapped our friends, and we had to have an Einherjar open a Way and do a speedrun through a hostile island with unknown hostiles. We almost got caught IIRC.
If we'd rolled badly we'd have gotten into a fight there as well.
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We would have had to do so anyway, because neither HWT, nor CCG allow for teleportation. They open the path to NeverNever, but not to an arbitrary part of NeverNever. If fact, HWT is worse here, there's at least some chance with CCG to control where the portal leads, HWT transitions you to the place in NeverNever (or from it) on the spot. What part of the world do you think the place in NeverNever we were ambushed at corresponded to?

Neither of your examples would have been meaningfully changed at all by Molly knowing HWT or CCG.
uju32 said:
Always plan for worst case.
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Also plan for other cases, or you end up prepared for an unlikely scenario that fails to materialize, and unprepared for actual situation.
 
uju32 said:
You have not provided a citation for your claim that there is a mass limit to what Molly can move.
Because Im looking at the book right here, and there is nothing to that effect.

There is a limit to how many PEOPLE we can move at a time.
There is nothing in the book I can tell that stops Molly driving an airliner, or a train, or a ship, as long as the crew and passengers on board are fewer than 20.
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DragonParadox said:
Yes, but it is still limited to things you can carry and more importantly Molly would also like to do things beside be a living gate.
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Fine here is a better citation even though I should not need to. No it is not a limitation from the book.
 
fictionfan said:
1. Irrelevant for most of our planner travel needs espiecaly if we want to bring friends. Unless you wanted to leave clippy and our earbud behind?
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Clippy does not appear to count. That we can ask about.
Thats an actual fair question.
fictionfan said:
2. I said most. What hostile enviroment do you imagine us being trapped in that we can't escape with our many many options (speed, RVD, calibration gate). Or person we fail to track with our crown?
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One with poison gas, for example, which we have no defenses against.
Or with debuff wards like the Will of Kakuri tried to set up.

Calibration Gate is a sorcery spell that takes time to cast and a third of our Essence.
It's not reflexive, so you need to take active actions to cast it, instead of doing other things like defending yourself against attackers or attacking yoursefl.

Speed is not something we exactly have a monopoly on; our first Walker encounter had the Walker much, much faster than we are. Like 9x faster.

The Crown is not a tracker. Crown foci are neither free nor infinite.
fictionfan said:
3.The cost of VEE is the cost we assign. In most cases I expect us to assign the cost as a safeword sending them to a hospital in our Kingdom in case they are in trouble. In fact that is the main benefit allowing us to being our minions with us and having them be able to do the leg work safely.
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The real cost of VEE is that 3 gifts down the line, the person becomes a Creature of Darkness that is a minion and is at a permanent -3DC to Molly.
Second: After accepting three gifts from the Infernal, the beneficiary becomes a creature of darkness, instinctively loyal to the Infernal, who reduces the difficulty of all social rolls against the character by three.
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BoredMan said:
It's kind of hard to choose because people seem to have differ interpretations of the same charms even, so you can't feel knowledgable by just reading the proposed charm's description to understand its relevance. You then have to read everyone's back and forth on how the charm "actually works" afterwords e_e.
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All Exalted charms are just gibberish to me. Random pompous sounding words glued together in a semi-random order and usually I only figure out how the hell they work after seeing them used... and then, even when actively observing it, I still feel like I'm probably wrong in my interpretation. Half of them run into weird no-limits-fallacy issues except it may or may not be a fallacy. There are moments when it seems like the rules are abstractions representing what is going on on the other side of the screen and there are other moments when it feels like the universe is actually just throwing dice and things are happening arbitrarily based on that. Its a weird system with a feel I don't get from other systems.

So, yes. I feel your pain.
 
uju32 said:
One with poison gas, for example, which we have no defenses against.
Or with debuff wards like the Will of Kakuri tried to set up.

Calibration Gate is a sorcery spell that takes time to cast and a third of our Essence.
It's not reflexive, so you need to take active actions to cast it, instead of doing other things like defending yourself against attackers or attacking yoursefl.

Speed is not something we exactly have a monopoly on; our first Walker encounter had the Walker much, much faster than we are. Like 9x faster.

The Crown is not a tracker. Crown foci are neither free nor infinite.
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Is a dot in survival supposed to help with any of that? Because you seem to be talking about a combat situation.

I am aware of the possible cost of VEE 3 years down the line and will be surprised if it ever comes up.
 
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Does someone mind explaining or posting the description for Source Code Compliance Protocol? I can't find it.
 
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