There is a limit to how many buffs you can put on a human body before it breaks, the Fallen have a budget of those in line with their own nature and that us their lot. Basically that is their shintai and they do not get By Rage Recast.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- Canada
Hmm, I suppose there is some continuum. For example, Lash is able to make her own choices. And I think even Bob could try to work around the binding of he was opposed to his master.
Uriel did say that redemption is available to all things that can choose. Not sure how that would apply to, say, a faerie trapped in a deal they now found immoral.
Likewise, even free willed humans can be mind controlled or puppeted.
I assumed that subverting the awakened machine spirit is not merely harder, but a different kind of task. Like the difference between breaking a lock vs talking your way past a guard. Mechanically, I'd expect a living spirit to get a roll to resist subversion.
- Location
- Estonia
Dresdenverse "Free Will", capitalized, is not "free will" as we normally understand it. It's a metaphysical quality, not actual freedom. IMO, it's best understood as a theoretical capacity to intentionally change your fundamental nature.
For example, in Dresdenverse, you could theoretically mind-control a human from birth to death, and they would still technically have Free Will, just no opportunity to ever exercise it. Free Will is something you have, not something you do.
Point of order: Yes they can, at least under certain conditions.
Word of Jim IIRC was explicitly that attempts to punt a Coin off Earth and into space would have the Coin teleport back to Earth; not sure if it was the Fallen inside the Coin that would do it, or if Lucifer would reach out and do it.
And I assume you'd see something similar if you tried something similar like tossing it into the Pacific in a block of concrete.
Its been two thousand years; people have tried to get rid of the things.
Hell, Sanya explicitly tossed his Coin into the canals of Venice, yet Magog is up and about less than a decade later iirc.
Exalted bullshit is by no means the only bullshit around.
EDIT
What @Iron Roby said.
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Oh, sure if the coin becomes unavailable to all potential bearers for a indeterminate but long period of time then yes someone would get to recover them. Basically a demon who is not coin-ed would get to go topside, pick it up and move it to someplace where that is not the case.
- Location
- Canada
So what does capitalized Free Will do? Is this what allows humans to become vampires or faeries?
Does that mean that Free Will is unrelated to what Uriel said about redemption?
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
@DragonParadox, if we personally invest spirits into the weapons we share with the Council, wouldn't that also allow them to basically be locked to a single wielder's biometrics? As in, once it's assigned to a given person it won't work for anyone else? or could even be made to explode if someone else attempted to use or tamper with it?
- Location
- florida
It is very unfortunate that the white council has an army of spy (magical) engineers embedded in it. (Fucking black councilll)
It is more that they have a cadre of spy magical savants. I meant what I said about the White Council having a individual advantage over magicians of the courts, it's just that
A) there are orders of magnitude less of them
and
B) the courts have five mega-cities worth of infrastructure on their side
Not transformative in that sense, free will in the DF as I understand it is more about your nature as a person being decoupled from your metaphysical one.
A fey can have opinions, loyalties, likes and dislikes, all that good stuff. They can act like a human in a lot of ways and adapt to new situations.
What they can't do is color outside of the lines; not without significant spiritual renovation from an outside source. They are what they are and that's it.
The metaphor I prefer is hardware vs software. A human/mortal can load new software and still be human. Everybody else is running on ASICs and has to change what they are to change how they think.
Which is what cleaves action from choice as the white god/wizards measure it. For a given situation a given nonhuman entity will always attempt the same sort of action and feel the same things. More time or information will just make them better at whatever they're trying unless you make them into something else.
Mind you we know that it is possible to decide that you are going to change even if you are a supernatural creature. Lucifer and Co did prove as much. But it also changes them on a fundamental level and may result in a lot of unpleasant or simply random, or not immediately obvious side effects.
Let's take Mab for example if she decided to abandon her duty for some reason - at minimum she will lose her mantle, probably stop being a winter fae and most likely lose a lot of her power leaving gaping holes in her spirit that would be filled by something else. Whatever comes out the other side will still be Mab as she decided to be but it would no longer be a Queen of Air and Darkness.
D&D surprisingly has a similar approach to outsiders - their soul and body are fused together. So an angel would be literally made out of LAW and GOOD. if the angel falls he can no longer be an angel because evil has no place in his body, and so it would change to accommodate that.
- Location
- Right Where I Am
Lucky for us that the one wizard who knows how to do it is both the friend we trust and on hand.
I acknowledged that it my post though? You can't change without great effort and someone tipping the balance.
Actually:
[X] Write-in: determine how hard the situation is to fix before making a decision
-[X] Have Harry demonstrate how he would do sabotage under laboratory conditions
--[X] Call relevant specialists
--[X] Observe using everything: ATB, Hellscry Chakra, excellencies, all bonus dice adders and difficulty reducers that we can think of applying
--[X] Use the tampered-with weapon as a Crown focus to find what scalable methods of protection against similar sabotage already exist
Can anyone think of a stunt?
[X] Write-in: determine how hard the situation is to fix before making a decision
-[X] Have Harry demonstrate how he would do sabotage under laboratory conditions
--[X] Call relevant specialists
--[X] Observe using everything: ATB, Hellscry Chakra, excellencies, all bonus dice adders and difficulty reducers that we can think of applying
--[X] Use the tampered-with weapon as a Crown focus to find what scalable methods of protection against similar sabotage already exist
Can anyone think of a stunt?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
That is hardly sealing it away. He might as well have left it on the street for someone to pick up.
- Location
- Right Where I Am
[X] Write-in: determine how hard the situation is to fix before making a decision
-[X] Have Harry demonstrate how he would do sabotage under laboratory conditions
--[X] Call relevant specialists
--[X] Observe using everything: ATB, Hellscry Chakra, excellencies, all bonus dice adders and difficulty reducers that we can think of applying
--[X] Use the tampered-with weapon as a Crown focus to find what scalable methods of protection against similar sabotage already exist
-[X] Have Harry demonstrate how he would do sabotage under laboratory conditions
--[X] Call relevant specialists
--[X] Observe using everything: ATB, Hellscry Chakra, excellencies, all bonus dice adders and difficulty reducers that we can think of applying
--[X] Use the tampered-with weapon as a Crown focus to find what scalable methods of protection against similar sabotage already exist
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Yeah this looks good. Hopefully we have the time for it even with the diplomatic thing going on.
If we don't I'll get mad that you guys voted to waste time on Lash when we could've addressed her later without consequence.
[X] Write-in: determine how hard the situation is to fix before making a decision
-[X] Have Harry demonstrate how he would do sabotage under laboratory conditions
--[X] Call relevant specialists
--[X] Observe using everything: ATB, Hellscry Chakra, excellencies, all bonus dice adders and difficulty reducers that we can think of applying
--[X] Use the tampered-with weapon as a Crown focus to find what scalable methods of protection against similar sabotage already exist
If we don't I'll get mad that you guys voted to waste time on Lash when we could've addressed her later without consequence.
[X] Write-in: determine how hard the situation is to fix before making a decision
-[X] Have Harry demonstrate how he would do sabotage under laboratory conditions
--[X] Call relevant specialists
--[X] Observe using everything: ATB, Hellscry Chakra, excellencies, all bonus dice adders and difficulty reducers that we can think of applying
--[X] Use the tampered-with weapon as a Crown focus to find what scalable methods of protection against similar sabotage already exist
Depends on how familiar they are with the tech, if they do not know what those guns are supposed to look like they would not be able to tell when something is wrong, but if they have studied Sanctuary spirit binding up to... about Apprentice as it happens it would be obvious.
I think that in principle we are looking at this wrong. And everyone is looking at this wrong. We are not supplying weapons as something that would be given out en-masse to faceless mooks, and could be regiven at need. That's not the way White Council works. White Council has at most, what, 5000 thousand combat operatives (@DragonParadox how long is WC's full roster?)? Likely less. All their operatives are unique - with unique capabilities, and unique operational goals. Warden X is not like warden Y, and WC is small enough to account for that. This means, that our target market is not a "generalized warden of White Council". It's specific Wardens. The council and us can afford for their equipment not being swappable (i.e. if warden X cannot use the gun of warden Y, that's not too much of a downside) - that's exaclty how they worked with warden swords.
So, I assume that every wizard involved in war is capable of binding a minor spirit. Not into themselves - that's Spirit Binding as done by the Courts. No, taking one as a familiar / binding it in the sense of "making a pact with it". Even if the spirit is non-sapient. That should be even easier. So, have all the users of our equipment bind it / take it as familiar(s). Even if it doesn't exactly protect the equipment from tampering, I am fairly sure it should still make said tampering very, very detectable.
So, I assume that every wizard involved in war is capable of binding a minor spirit. Not into themselves - that's Spirit Binding as done by the Courts. No, taking one as a familiar / binding it in the sense of "making a pact with it". Even if the spirit is non-sapient. That should be even easier. So, have all the users of our equipment bind it / take it as familiar(s). Even if it doesn't exactly protect the equipment from tampering, I am fairly sure it should still make said tampering very, very detectable.
Less than 5000 yes, considerably less would even take strange alien guns but if you wanted to give them to groups like the Ventori you would start coming up against supply limits for sapient spirits willing to be housed in weapons and it's those support roles where they could to be most good.
Many wizards also do not have an interest in binding spirits that might change, indeed likely will with new and standardized spirit lore, but that too will take time
Many wizards also do not have an interest in binding spirits that might change, indeed likely will with new and standardized spirit lore, but that too will take time
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Kept trying to write something, but Harry hasn't really explained how he does it well enough for me to even start writing the problem nevermind the solution.
Is Harry tricking the spirit? Enchanting the gun somehow? What is the mechanic?
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