Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
I mean, it depends on the location, I think? We could probably use high altitude bombardment against remote bases - we are essentially a stealth bomber, after all. Against strongholds in populated areas... RVD in, then use poison?I'm pretty sure engaging in a heavy strategic bombing is a masquerade breach, even if we do it so fast no one is sure what specifically is going on.
… perhaps especially then.
Either way it would make our next conversation with the Library interesting.
Librarian: On one hand her high altitude bombing reflex confirms she's really an American, on the other she's definitely not listening to us and we have no control of her explosive sources.
With some prep we could probably blame in on Al-Qaeda. Or Black Court.
Yes, that's also an option. Each Red Court Vampire is an agent of Red Court. And we have those in custody, and we can use the same agent multiple times (or at least I don't see anything in the rules about only being able to use a single agent one time as a vector for the attack). Use one of the captives to find a list of all Red Court projects, then use them as a vector to attack it. Red Court takes +2 DC to their everything, and in a number of situations those DC adjusters would stack, I think. That should help. A lot.
I do like the idea of just cursing the hell out of an organization on every individual topic we can, no matter how petty. Even if they can clear the curses actually pulling it off should be expensive.
Scary for the council though, and anyone who needs to organize a group of more than 5 people at a time.
- Location
- washington
Honestly shouldn't be something red court is prepared to counter especially since it's not curse magic it's a charm. Not to say they couldn't break it but they'd likely need to at least research first and it's not like we couldn't recast it. Mystically most shouldn't even be able to notice the curse.
- Location
- washington
Offhand there any mundane groups we might wanna curse too I don't wanna get too political but there have gotta be a few groups we objectively agree deserve cursing? Like the kkk.
Cassiemouse
Market Atheist
[X] Look around you, I want to help those who have been dealt a poor hand in life master their demons and do good.
- Location
- Canada
I just wanna team up with Morgan and (re)start the tradition of overpowered murderhobos going around slaying undead monstrosities and shattering the former power structures; if we had him as backup, I'd put good odds on Molly taking on the Red King (if he even has the courage to leave his home given how close Morgan got to ganking him and how both his daughter and a Lord have died recently). Morgan is the Quadratic Wizard, Molly is the Quadratic Warrior (the Exalted don't do 'linear' power progression for any archetype, wizard or warrior), Michael is the Paladin and I dunno Mouse can be the mount.
The White Council's Brute Squad might've gotten stackwiped in the early days of the war, but it's time to start focusing down the Red Court while we have momentum on our side and horror/indecision/terror paralyzing them.
The White Council's Brute Squad might've gotten stackwiped in the early days of the war, but it's time to start focusing down the Red Court while we have momentum on our side and horror/indecision/terror paralyzing them.
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The council: I wonder what's going on in the mind of this new spirit monarch.
Molly: *I bet we'd make a great
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] Look around you, I want to help those who have been dealt a poor hand in life master their demons and do good.
[x]I guess I see myself filling up the power vacuum from the destroyed red Court.
[x]I guess I see myself filling up the power vacuum from the destroyed red Court.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Okay... Why do you want to make Rosie's child a custom God and why do you think it will need one?
[X] BronzeTongue
You mean this isn't a quest entirely about crafting and any excuse to do so? You'd never know it from certain prolific posters' suggestions.
One of the first things we should curse is their ability to lift curses from themselves. They would still be able to do it on an individual basis, probably, but any attempt to remove the curse on the organization would suffer a +2 DC hit. Also projects to identify being cursed, etc.
Serious answer is that I think as our godchild it would be in constant supernatural danger from a multitude of factions that want, or will want to harm or influence us. And that as the child's
Joking answer is that this is an opportunity to make a JoJo reference.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I think that logic can be used for just about anybody Molly cares about... Unless we have reason to think they would target the unborn child in particular we shouldn't be making them a custom God imo. It seems irresponsible at least.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
All we really need is something that can carry a child fast and call for help. Running away fast is a great defense against more then 90% of threats.
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Like I said? Collateral.
We can decapitate the Red Court pretty easily if we put our minds to it. However, we cant do it without massive collateral, nor can we currently manage the supernatural, political and economic aftermath, or even be sure to destroy the organization completely.
This shares a lot of the principles of nuclear war; if we swing at them that hard, we need to be able to be sure we can break their power, and ability to project it, with the first swing, else the retaliation will probably kill a whole lot of bystanders.
I am not saying "decapitate". I am saying "cripple them completely and destroy their strategic capability". And I am not buying "we cannot handle the aftermath". In a long, or even medium term, the aftermath of their destruction is far better than the consequences of their continued existence. Don't mistake order for wellness, or chaos for evil. Red Court is a net harm to the world. A continued one. If I am am allowed to be metaphorical - they are a leecg sucking the world's blood. Their removal, while provoking a period of upheaval, also opens up the way for the world to be improved.
Thr logic of nuclear war is also wrong, because it posits that Rex Court cannot be allowed to lose. Because if they are losing at all, and know it, nukes come out. And we never can be certain that nukes won't come out. Never.
I would propose something like this:
1) Day 1 - we put as many curses on Red Court as possible. We can 1 curse per 45 minutes to stay mote neutral. In 24 hours, that's 32 curses. I will assume that Red Court takes +2 DC to their everything as an organization, but are aware that they have been cursed
2) Day 2. Using a combination of RVD, Principle-Invoking Onslaught, weapons from our Court, and looted missing nukes if needed, we destroy their strongholds in unpopulated areas. With prep the trail points to Al Qaeda for mundane investigators, and Black Court to supernaturals.
3) Day 2 part 2 - using one of our favors, we get Winter to attack the bases of Red Court that aren't under our assault. Might jot even need the favor to be spent, since Red Court are habitual and intentional Accord violators, and Winter is its enforcer.
3) Either the end of day 2, or a start of day 3, we free the Aztec gods via a surgical strike.
4) Day 3 - we go after Red King
5) Days 4 to 30 - using the Crown and effectively infinite foci provided by captured / killed Red court vampires we identify, locate, and, if needed, curse organizations trying to fill in the void left by Red Court.
Total expenses: 12 to 24 xp for appropriate charms, a number of motes of essence, around 4 AP. should be done in summer, when winter's power is greatest in the southern hemisphere.
I should note that while operation could be done in a week it would take at least 2-3 months of dedicated effort to get ready for it. Not for Molly but for all the support stuff because for all of her power she can't be everywhere at once and there would need to be a lot of support stuff for extracting former prisoners, keeping control over surrendered vampires, dealing with opportunists and so on.
Just dealing with all the people used for feeding by Red Court, a lot of whom if not most have a heavy addiction. Where are you going to house them right now? How are you going to organize them when they barely can move or even think coherently? And so on, and so on.
Bombing the Red Court is the easy part.
We CANNOT currently handle the aftermath.
Im not even sure that the goal of destroying their strategic capability is realistically achievable atm; as both the Kemmlerites and McCoy have demonstrated, you dont need all that much infrastructure for strategic magic.
The Red Court runs Latin America from Mexico to Argentina, a region of around 7.7 million sq miles and 600 million people. In canon, when Dresden managed a clean sweep of everyone, he literally destabilized most of these places; wars broke out in multiple countries, and essentially every one of them went into martial law. And thats just the political consequences.
We have zero ability to manage or mitigate the consequences of this. Neither does anyone else.
Just cursing other factions does nothing besides create more enemies.
Our ability to take out Red Court strongholds is a reasonable assumption; not a given, but reasonable. Our ability to actually kill the top brass at a distance, less so; given the reality of wards and mundane construction, its entirely plausible that the defenses soak enough damage that their elders survive such attacks in injured but fixable condition and just dip into the NeverNever.
A well-fed elder who sleeps in a reinforced concrete building is not going to die to a MOAB, and may well survive an air burst nuke; see the people who survived the nuclear bombings in Japan from as close as 170m away.
And thats assuming they are on site that day in the first place, that they dont have a defense like Protean 6: Smoke and Mirrors or that they dont grab the nearest dying mortals as a juice pack to regen damage.
Besides, the faction that was willing to sign on Outsiders as combat servitors, to use a chemical WMD in an African city and was happy to abet the Kemmlerite attempt to sacrifice Chicago to power a Darkhallow will very happily do more deals for magic protections and blessings to counter organizational curses. Or even just as a fuck you.
If Papa Raith could buy himself magic immunity, if Duke Skavis could sub in a lesser Walker by , even the right survivors of the Red Court could wreak appalling harm as retaliation or a scorched earth move. How many god-monsters like Iku-Turso do they know of and currently dont want to loose on the world?
There's a reason I explicitly used the nuclear war analogy; the logical next step is to make everyone lose, by seeking help from sources like the Yama Kings or Outsiders, or by popping a few prison cells.
Kick over the board, and your enemies have bigger problems and you have room to breathe.
Furthermore, I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that this sort of war would not be covered by either of the Winter favors that Mab gave us. It would have massive destabilizing consequences on the Accords, and on Winter's ability to sustain its ongoing war effort at the Outer Gates.
Nor would the other people with interests in seeing the Red Court fall thank us for the death toll either.
Aside from the aftermath there's also the immediate human cost. The red court has some, but not all, of its critical facilities separated off from everyone else. You can hurt them by taking those, but not kill them without hitting everything.
Nuking Mexico City and other major concentrations of red vamp power isn't going to make us friends with anyone independent of the court's ability to retaliate.
Nuking Mexico City and other major concentrations of red vamp power isn't going to make us friends with anyone independent of the court's ability to retaliate.
And I am saying that even without managing any consequences and in a worst reasonable case of said consequences happening, it would still be better to destroy Red Court than to let them continue.
Don't fall for the appeal of organized evil, and don't try to find the perfect solution. Imperfect solution is still a solution.
They are already in a global war against everyone. They will use their nuke equivalents anyway.
Not how fae word works.
Vote closed, lets see how they take it.
Eh, they aren't that scary. They are barely superhuman and no matter how many threats they want to unleash, a single foci question tells us all of them.
The informational advantage we have is staggering. We could dismantle them and then find all their desperate moves as well.
The informational advantage we have is staggering. We could dismantle them and then find all their desperate moves as well.
We probably want to ask at least the following questions before doing anything:
1) What are the means by which Red Court can defend against effects targeting them as a whole / as organization? This includes (might need separate questions) ways to detect such effects, magical means to defend against them, and organizational ways to defend against them
2) What is the full list of Red Court projects
3) What kind of WMDs (where WMD is defined as weapon / magic / effect that can harm more than 100 people per application) does Red Court have access to?
Based on these three, we will ask more questions.
I am not saying "Leeroy Jenkins the Red Court". But I am saying that even if we just destroy red Court, it would still be a net benefit to the world.
I'm pretty sure no one argues that the Red Court should be left alone. People argue to not go after them without proper preparation. White Council right now is in a much better position than in canon. So unless Red Court pulls off some ridiculous bullshit spending some time on getting all the ducks in a row and then sweeping them is the right move.
Instead of hitting them basically right now and then playing whack a mole with all the vamps who'll skitter like cockroaches everywhere.